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If your just upgrading to stage 1-3 baleful would be better for dps but not really worth it.

 

However if you can upgrade to stage 4-6, seraph is better. Hoping to get a rng reset from baleful is redundant since the only skill you would need to reset is wingstorm.

A shorter leech cd from seraph would give a more consistent reset/dps rotation. 

 

Seraph would also help you more in open world pvp/battleground from the heal procs, shorter leech cd and a higher potential reset from getting hit by a lot of people and cats.

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seraph by a very huge margin, seraph leech cd reduction + badge 3 sec leech duration increase + imprison 6 sec leech cd reduce + leg shield 8 set bonus no cd on rupture + swift badge 3 sec additional cd reduce on rupture during siphon for Dragoncall, this combined with dragoncall hm book gives u a nearly 100% leech uptime, exept the first sec after leech duration ends, but there u gonna use imprison anyway, combine that with  leg bracelet and proc and frozen elemental dmg and you are looking at 60k+ dps :P

 

and that is best dps for wl in the longrun over dark build,

but even with dark build seraph, cause helix badge gives u 1 extra orb on crit helix during leech duration, meaning each crit helix gives u with hm book 3 orbs, so helix again without any fillers, so more leech, more helix and so on 

Edited by Mutumi
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I wrote a program to run some simulations, in the current state of the game, seraph is a DPS loss over true scorpio through rank 6, while baleful is a DPS loss until rank 4, these calculations do not take into account reset procs, and since seraphs will never trigger in PvE, baleful is currently the winner in dps. Mutumi is probably right about the frost build once we have mushins floor 20 badges and legendary soul shield, but that isn't until at least January, so it isn't worth it to go serpahs for PvE at this time.

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Baleful is better till Seraph stage 10 comes or until we get the legendary soul SS that gives us helix damage. 7 Seconds off Leech is not a big deal. With the new changes to imprison baleful is better. Once we get the legendary SS it is better to switch to seraph for helix build.

If you are using Dragoncall build then go with Seraph no matter what. Because Dragoncall relies on leech. Of course this is just my personal testing and experience. Meaning my personal opinion to. I would say just go with what you like. If you are into fashion then go seraph

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On 24.9.2016 at 4:46 PM, Pazo81 said:

I want to do legendary wep and i dont know what's better atm balefull or seraph??

I'm use full dark build with HM RBM.

 sry for my english and ty for answer.

Sorry to say that but everyone who goes to baleful now because of this stupid and useless reset or Helix damage dont know his class right and will do a big mistake.

No one need this stupid and useless reset. With the dark build you nearly have no cooldowns at all. I play with this build and i know what i am talking about. The changes in the last patchnotes for example: "F" rupture = -1 sec CD on wingstorm" and the new changes on "Imprison" pushes the playstyle more and more with this build. And this build definitely benefits from the seraph weapon and from the next soulbadge we get today in the infinity tower. Same as from future updates with soulbadges and amulets.

 

Your chance now:

One of the most IMPORTANT skills in your damage rotation which have NO possibility to reset is "Leech".

And on seraph you have a wonderful possibility to decrease this cooldown permanently!  

 

So my oppinion: 

Stay on true scorpio for a while its a very good weapon or go for Seraph at Stage 4+ (or better directly to stage 6). 

Its better than this baleful crap and future wise the better choice. 

 

No Warlock needs this stupid and uncontrollable reset on Baleful. Everyone who say they need it or it is important should learn his class right. ;) 

Oh and every stage you go up on baleful will cost you 100g when you want to change to seraph. So choose wisely whats the best for you.

For me i DONT recommend baleful at all. Save your money and go to stage 6 directly or wait for stage 6+. Baleful 1-6 is not worth it.

Stay on scorpio or change to seraph.

 

Examples for future content where it is better to have the seraph weapon:

 

legendary soulshield from windplains (content who comes at the end of this year)

gives you: 15% more damage on "V" (wingstorm) and 50% more damage on "F" (rupture) which are 2 of the core skills 

in your damage rotation on dark build. This build benefits a lot from lower CD at Leech.

More (save and permanent) resets through Leech = more wingstorms = more Helix = more rupture = you have the 20% critical damage more often active = more damage :D 

 

Soulbadges:

 

Infinity Tower Season 2 (starting today):

During Soul steal state, successful "4" (helix) hit will allow you to do the delayed RMB (dimensional salvo)

 

Mushin Tower Stage 20:

1.) During Soul state successful "4" (helix) hit will grant you 1 shadow orb.

2.) Soul steal state is increased by 3 seconds.

 

Mystical amulet (future content who takes a while until we get it)

"During Soul steal state, each critical "F" (rupture) the cooldown of "V" (wingstorm) will be reduced by 3 seconds.

 

All of these examples are perfect to show you how much you can benefit from the seraph weapon in near future and the later endgame.

 

12 hours ago, Kuronee said:

Baleful is better till Seraph stage 10 comes or until we get the legendary soul SS that gives us helix damage.

There is no legendary SS who gives Helix damage btw. Oh and i tested it a few days ago and i did nearly the same damage with my true scorpio compared to some stage 6 baleful people who think this weapon is a good or wise choice.^^ Apart from that no one really needs a legendary for the whole content this year. :)

 

12 hours ago, Kuronee said:

7 Seconds off Leech is not a big deal.

On longer fights it is for sure and in future updates it gets more and more usefull.^^ Look at the dark build rotation or the examples above and think about it again :)

 

12 hours ago, Kuronee said:

With the new changes to imprison baleful is better.

Why are this changes exactly better on baleful?^^ That makes no sense at all. Do you really know what you are talking about? :)

 

12 hours ago, Kuronee said:

Because Dragoncall relies on leech.

Dark build (what should be the main playstyle now and later) benefits greatly from your leech too. It is one of the "Core" skills in your rotation. 

You would know that when you would understand your class right.^

 

 

AT OP: i hope i could answer your question good enough to understand what is a wise choice here. When you have any questions say something. ;)

Oh and sorry for grammar mistakes or something else here. English is not my mother tongue.

 

 

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2 things to considere here:

1- you will NEVER proc the skill reset on seraph, not even in PvP you aint no BD who can tank enought damange to proc it, if you get many hits that you cant block you are dead (so far, im pretty sure blocking doesnt count as "taking damage", tho im no 100% sure, just blocking never triggered it on me)

2- Baleful skill reset is not as OP as you may think, since its not a constant reset, its about once between 1-2 minutes, and what are you going to reset? wingstorm ? imprison? those are the only important skills you use everytime the come out of CD, sure you can reset an "important" skill such as bastion, but most of the time, it wont be on CD since you will be saving for the right time, and you cant rely on Baleful's reset just to waste it as you do before sb.

 

Conclusion: no matter what you pick, skill reset on both weapons is not worth/realible

So that leaves us with less CD on leech, or 5% more dmg on helix/call.... the 5% damage is not that much and even if helix is your most damaging skill, is not your whole thing (as for example BD that flicker is around their 50%-60% total damage) as a WL Helix is your 30%-40% overall damage, but lets not forget leech boost (+20% crit damage) all your other damaging skills (wingstorm, salvo, rupture AND helix), so is about boosting one skill or boosting them all, besides later on, as people already stated everything is about the leech state to deal the max damage.... PLUS ! Seraph skin is so freaking beautiful!

20 hours ago, Kuronee said:

... With the new changes to imprison baleful is better....

That doesnt make anysense? how can "let you insta cast Wingstorm and dragoncall for 6 seconds" makes baleful better? no matter how hard you try you cant get a wingstorm or dragoncall reset in 6 seconds just to insta cast it, and even if you could, i dont get how it makes baleful better, would you mind explaining it because so far, it doesnt make any sense to me.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Either stay scorpio or go seraph when they change proc requirements to proc on hit. Right now none of the legendary are worth it but if you really want to, baleful is the right path just because of reset and the 100% crit on 10 stacks. Hidden stat of legendary that last 5 sec just before reset. 

 

With seraph stage 6 you only got a generous -8 sec off of leach.

With baleful you have 5% damage on main dps+ aditional damage =150% of AP+ after 10 stacks u get 100% crit chance and after 5 sec skill reset that refreshes resist skill z and imprison 3 skill that reduces cd of leach by 6 also refreshes cd of dc which if it hits 2 times it gives you 8 sec off of leach=to stage 6 sreph

 

The only advantage to seraph is that  get leach 1 sec faster if dragoncall after imprison doesn't crit for another insta-cast. An advantage that becomes useless if u don't leach immediately and in high level dungeons this advantage becomes useless because bosses like Asura have their immunity phases which means the 8 sec advantage is now useless because you cant leach immediately. Bosses like the one at ebondrake citadel will require you to drop dps so that you can do mechanics so getting 5% more damage in your active times becomes far more beneficial.

 

Unless they change the effect of seraph that path is useless cause even in high levels the mechanics problem still persists and your max will be 6 sec less leach cd from the baleful path. Also by the time we get later stages of seraph we will probably get a better legendary with a better effect SO its not worth even in the long run as they promise

Here is a video showing how fast u can get reset 

 

Edited by Whiteflashkevin
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2 hours ago, Whiteflashkevin said:

Either stay scorpio or go seraph when they change proc requirements to proc on hit. Right now none of the legendary are worth it but if you really want to, baleful is the right path just because of reset and the 100% crit on 10 stacks. Hidden stat of legendary that last 5 sec just before reset. 

 

With seraph stage 6 you only got a generous -8 sec off of leach.

With baleful you have 5% damage on main dps+ aditional damage =150% of AP+ after 10 stacks u get 100% crit chance and after 5 sec skill reset that refreshes resist skill z and imprison 3 skill that reduces cd of leach by 6 also refreshes cd of dc which if it hits 2 times it gives you 8 sec off of leach=to stage 6 sreph

 

The only advantage to seraph is that  get leach 1 sec faster if dragoncall after imprison doesn't crit for another insta-cast. An advantage that becomes useless if u don't leach immediately and in high level dungeons this advantage becomes useless because bosses like Asura have their immunity phases which means the 8 sec advantage is now useless because you cant leach immediately. Bosses like the one at ebondrake citadel will require you to drop dps so that you can do mechanics so getting 5% more damage in your active times becomes far more beneficial.

 

Unless they change the effect of seraph that path is useless cause even in high levels the mechanics problem still persists and your max will be 6 sec less leach cd from the baleful path. Also by the time we get later stages of seraph we will probably get a better legendary with a better effect SO its not worth even in the long run as they promise

Here is a video showing how fast u can get reset 

 

First of all you attack 3 targets at once. Thats why your baleful stack that fast up.^^ Hit one target and you will see how slow it stacks up then.

 

And what skills do you want to reset damage related? xD only "Imprison" (3) would make sense here. Thats all.^^ On Stage 1-3 both legendarys are useless because scorpio is much stronger. Stage 4-6: Now you can see it better where is the difference between both weapons . But on stage 7 and higher the white one will be much better than the other 2 weapons (scorpio and baleful) with 23% (stage 7-9) until 30% (Stage 10) cd reduction. The skill cooldown reduction is permanent so you don't need this (sorry... stupid) reset to lower the cooldown of leech with imprison. With seraph you have more burst phases. So you have more often resets on "V" and "4", 20% critdamage for ALL of your skills and in longer fights you will have more instant casts too.^^ The new Soul badge for "dimensional salvo on helix hit while leech" let you do more damage when you have the white one because you can use your leech more often in a longer boss fight = more skills = more damage = better.
 
With my Stage 4 Seraph i have a 37 sec cooldown on leech. Together with my standard imprison = 31 sec.
SO every 31 sec i can burst 12 sec with dimensional salvo badge like hell.^^
 
With a Stage 4 baleful you have a 45 sec cooldown. Together with standard imprison you will have a 39 sec cooldown.^^
(6sec lower when you have an additional imprison because of luck with resets)
 
You can't reset your imprison that fast without destroying your rotation to get that low cooldown on leech like the white one.^^

So you will never have that much burst phases as someone with seraph btw.

 
Now the example on higher stages:
 
Stage 7 seraph (23%cd) = 34sec - imprison = 28sec !
Stage 7 baleful                = 45sec - imprison = 39 sec. (6sec lower when you have luck with resets)
 
Stage 10 seraph (30%cd) = 31sec - imprison = 25sec !
Stage 10 baleful                = 45sec - imprison = 39 sec. (6sec lower when you have luck with resets)
 
Ok baleful have a 10% damage plus on helix (one skill) at stage 10. A main skill for sure but its not the only one you use when you fight against bosses etc. And i don't think 10% damage plus on ONE skill together with a (damage related) nearly useless and luck based reset buff can't be better than the permanent cooldown reduction of 30% (13,5sec) on every leech. No chance.^^ (in this example both weapons are on stage 10)
 
My opinion:
Don't hitting your leech skill when you have a baleful weapon would be a harder dps loss as for seraph because of the higher standard cooldown on baleful and the time you need to wait for the next phase where you can burst. 
 
For me the reset on WL weapon is not needed and damage related nearly useless.
WL is a class who don't need this kind of resets because when you have the seraph weapon you nearly don't have any cooldowns in fights.

 

Oh and a little info for you: You only get the 150% additional damage (150% of your AP) only ONE time everytime the buff stack up not on every skill you do.^^

You don't trust me? Test it and you will know what i mean. 

For example: you have 700 AP so you will damage the boss on every stack 1 time with only 1050 (noncrit!) damage. xD

 

That is horrible low and not really worth at all.

3 hours ago, Whiteflashkevin said:

With seraph stage 6 you only got a generous -8 sec off of leach.

With baleful you have 5% damage on main dps+ aditional damage =150% of AP+ after 10 stacks u get 100% crit chance and after 5 sec skill reset that refreshes resist skill z and imprison 3 skill that reduces cd of leach by 6 also refreshes cd of dc which if it hits 2 times it gives you 8 sec off of leach=to stage 6 sreph

1.) Hope you don't forget that a seraph user have imprison too :) so we have at stage 6 = 37sec cd - imprison (6sec) = 31 sec WITHOUT any reset. ;)

Together with dragoncall (like in your example) we have a much lower cooldown than baleful btw.

2.) As you can see in the video the skills reset after 10sec not after 5sec.

3.) 5% is not really high xD. For example: Without 5% = 15.000 crit and with 5% dmg+ = 15.750 crit.

 

Ty for reading :D

 

(Oh and english is not my mother tounge. But i hope everyone knows what i meant :P)

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simple question, does baleful stacks reset leech?

im not playing wl for few months, thinking about it, she has seraph, it was long discussion in past, that baleful reset just resets everything unimportant, but seraph lowers cd on most important thing

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56 minutes ago, babeln said:

simple question, does baleful stacks reset leech?

im not playing wl for few months, thinking about it, she has seraph, it was long discussion in past, that baleful reset just resets everything unimportant, but seraph lowers cd on most important thing

Baleful stacks resets the same skills as soulburn.^^ So no possibility to reset leech with baleful. That is one of many reasons to take seraph instead of baleful. 

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8 hours ago, NYYankee said:

First of all you attack 3 targets at once. Thats why your baleful stack that fast up.^^ Hit one target and you will see how slow it stacks up then.

 

And what skills do you want to reset damage related? xD only "Imprison" (3) would make sense here. Thats all.^^ On Stage 1-3 both legendarys are useless because scorpio is much stronger. Stage 4-6: Now you can see it better where is the difference between both weapons . But on stage 7 and higher the white one will be much better than the other 2 weapons (scorpio and baleful) with 23% (stage 7-9) until 30% (Stage 10) cd reduction. The skill cooldown reduction is permanent so you don't need this (sorry... stupid) reset to lower the cooldown of leech with imprison. With seraph you have more burst phases. So you have more often resets on "V" and "4", 20% critdamage for ALL of your skills and in longer fights you will have more instant casts too.^^ The new Soul badge for "dimensional salvo on helix hit while leech" let you do more damage when you have the white one because you can use your leech more often in a longer boss fight = more skills = more damage = better.
 
With my Stage 4 Seraph i have a 37 sec cooldown on leech. Together with my standard imprison = 31 sec.
SO every 31 sec i can burst 12 sec with dimensional salvo badge like hell.^^
 
With a Stage 4 baleful you have a 45 sec cooldown. Together with standard imprison you will have a 39 sec cooldown.^^
(6sec lower when you have an additional imprison because of luck with resets)
 
You can't reset your imprison that fast without destroying your rotation to get that low cooldown on leech like the white one.^^

So you will never have that much burst phases as someone with seraph btw.

 
Now the example on higher stages:
 
Stage 7 seraph (23%cd) = 34sec - imprison = 28sec !
Stage 7 baleful                = 45sec - imprison = 39 sec. (6sec lower when you have luck with resets)
 
Stage 10 seraph (30%cd) = 31sec - imprison = 25sec !
Stage 10 baleful                = 45sec - imprison = 39 sec. (6sec lower when you have luck with resets)
 
Ok baleful have a 10% damage plus on helix (one skill) at stage 10. A main skill for sure but its not the only one you use when you fight against bosses etc. And i don't think 10% damage plus on ONE skill together with a (damage related) nearly useless and luck based reset buff can't be better than the permanent cooldown reduction of 30% (13,5sec) on every leech. No chance.^^ (in this example both weapons are on stage 10)
 
My opinion:
Don't hitting your leech skill when you have a baleful weapon would be a harder dps loss as for seraph because of the higher standard cooldown on baleful and the time you need to wait for the next phase where you can burst. 
 
For me the reset on WL weapon is not needed and damage related nearly useless.
WL is a class who don't need this kind of resets because when you have the seraph weapon you nearly don't have any cooldowns in fights.

 

Oh and a little info for you: You only get the 150% additional damage (150% of your AP) only ONE time everytime the buff stack up not on every skill you do.^^

You don't trust me? Test it and you will know what i mean. 

For example: you have 700 AP so you will damage the boss on every stack 1 time with only 1050 (noncrit!) damage. xD

 

That is horrible low and not really worth at all.

1.) Hope you don't forget that a seraph user have imprison too :) so we have at stage 6 = 37sec cd - imprison (6sec) = 31 sec WITHOUT any reset. ;)

Together with dragoncall (like in your example) we have a much lower cooldown than baleful btw.

2.) As you can see in the video the skills reset after 10sec not after 5sec.

3.) 5% is not really high xD. For example: Without 5% = 15.000 crit and with 5% dmg+ = 15.750 crit.

 

Ty for reading :D

 

(Oh and english is not my mother tounge. But i hope everyone knows what i meant :P)

This is like arguing that having 1/4 a slice of cake is fine when im arguing to have the whole thing. Do warlocks players hate themselves. Why argue against the change when they are the ones most affected by the change of seraphs proc requirement  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JOQK34BUTR_55XwnbJOk388gjokrtLZFdhi3vIwXjZc/edit#gid=278009508

We can have the whole slice people? Just ask for it.

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8 hours ago, NYYankee said:

And what skills do you want to reset damage related? xD only "Imprison" (3) would make sense here

wingstorm is worth resetting for, on its own its a tiny dps increase but throw in some helix you get from the extra hits and its a dps increase. soul shackle can fill in your rotation when helix doesnt crit, or just throw it in coz you can ani cancel that with almost any skills. I like the reset on defensive skills coz I end up tanking all the time when there's no BM/KFM.

 

8 hours ago, NYYankee said:

With seraph you have more burst phases

This benefit doesn't show until 2~3 minutes into the fight where the cdr gives you an extra leech compare to baleful, in short fight you may get your second or third leech faster but if overall you get the same amount of leeches as baleful then there's no dps increase coming from the cdr. if you have max gear and plays with max gear team the only relevant fight is last boss DT  as a non-marker, nexus/gloom and below are all 1 min burst fight, asura/masts has bigger emphasis on small rounds burst due to mechanics and you cant leech on CD, and citadel is burst til ~70% and then lazily do some damage so the boss doesn't skip to the next phase too fast.

 

Future contents and weapon stages I agree the advantage seraph gives becomes more apparent, especially if you have the leech enhance badges.

 

Also for later stages you can only use imprison every other leech since it has a 30 sec CD (or use it and not get the full 6 second cdr benefit)

 

Overall I find it more important to know what advantages your weapon give over the other one and how to execute your rotation to capitalise it.

Edited by adbe
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9 minutes ago, adbe said:

wingstorm is worth resetting for, on its own its a tiny dps increase but throw in some helix you get from the extra hits and its a dps increase. soul shackle can fill in your rotation when helix doesnt crit, or just throw it in coz you can ani cancel that with almost any skills. I like the reset on defensive skills coz I end up tanking all the time when there's no BM/KFM.

 

This benefit doesn't show until 2~3 minutes into the fight where the cdr gives you an extra leech compare to baleful, in short fight you may get your second or third leech faster but if overall you get the same amount of leeches as baleful then there's no dps increase coming from the cdr. if you have max gear and plays with max gear team the only relevant fight is last boss DT  as a non-marker, nexus/gloom and below are all 1 min burst fight, asura/masts has bigger emphasis on small rounds burst due to mechanics and you cant leech on CD, and citadel is burst til ~70% and then lazily do some damage so the boss doesn't skip to the next phase too fast.

 

Future contents I agree the advantage seraph gives becomes more apparent, especially if you have the leech enhance badges.

 

Also for later stages you can only use imprison every other leech since it has a 30 sec CD (or use it and not get the full 6 second cdr benefit)

 

Overall I find it more important to know what advantages your weapon give over the other one and how to execute your rotation to capitalise it.

it really is a bad split since both weapons shine in different situations. Seraph should have been the clear dominant on warlock since baleful benefits all other classes. The change to baleful only hurt warlocks so that is why im asking for them to patch it like they did to TW and JP but right now with both weapons i don't see the point in investing time and resources for a slightly better weapon. If they don't patch seraph im siting this one out and waiting for next legendary.

baleful proc chance seems to have been nerfed

and seraph effect of 20% cd reduction on stage 6 seems to have been nerfed to 16%. 

Great.

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16 minutes ago, Whiteflashkevin said:

If they don't patch seraph im siting this one out and waiting for next legendary.

Fun fact: For the next legendary weapon (the elementary weapon) you need this legendary on stage 10. xD

 

23 minutes ago, Whiteflashkevin said:

seraph effect of 20% cd reduction on stage 6 seems to have been nerfed to 16%.

Not really.^^ The effect was 16% on stage 6 from the beginning. They don't changed it. Stage 7 have 23%.

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Who care's about reset ? What do you reset on a wl ? And don't forget that the reset is a rng ... don't show me how fast you proc on dummy's is not the same thing as in a real fight ...where the boss moves ... cc and all thoes things...then we will see how fast you can make baleful proc ...

 

I meam a full server (Kr) choose seraph (na/eu version) for 1 thing ...why do you think is that ? Because leech cd ... you don't need any rng for this and i think NYYankee explain why seraph is always the better choice for wl ...

 

Anyway keep in mind 1 thing you have a full server that pick the seraph vs a few streamers that say baleful is better .... think who is wrong .... and i know whe don't have the same bonuses ... but like i said the reason is the leech cd ... 

 

One more thing ... as a wl that play's dark build... with seraph stage 4 .... i have np keeping up with fm's and summ in dmg ...in most fights i outdps them (in ap range), i have a prb when it comes to Bm's ...is hard to outdps them.

 

So is up to you which path you wanna go ....

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, DoubleV said:

I meam a full server (Kr) choose seraph (na/eu version) for 1 thing

Dont they hv the proc changed to on hit instead of when hit? That is a big difference.

Also if you want to refer to other servers(I bet you say all this due to 1 streamer's recent comment lol) TW warlocks use baleful which is also a lot more relevant to our version when comparing.

 

dps is more due to player skill/ping lol like right now im in citadel 4 and im doing almost double of everyone else in a 700+ party

 

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Well, I still don't get why people bring resetting skill buffs into Warlock legendary discussion.

 

Warlock is already equipped with that mechanics without the weapon. With full Warlock Dark Build, you are capable of throwing out the 25s cd Wingstorm within 5s after one ends. So it's rather pointless for Warlock to need any kind of reset beside its core skill which is Leech. Heck, you don't even need your "3," just leave it to Daze in case shiet happens.

Plus, the buff from Baleful is random and uncontrollable which is another factor you don't need to add to Warlock considering this is the most RNG dependent class in the game.

 

You can argue about the ridiculous buff proc requirement of Seraph or how dps may be different, but resetting skills buff for Warlock? Really?

 

 

16 hours ago, NYYankee said:

Stage 10 seraph (30%cd) = 31sec - imprison = 25sec !
Stage 10 baleful                = 45sec - imprison = 39 sec. (6sec lower when you have luck with resets)

With all the dragoncalls I throw during Leech plus Imprision, at Seraph stage 4 the actual cool down I have to wait for Leech is pretty much already around 25s.

Edited by Ganhur
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9 minutes ago, Ganhur said:

Well, I still don't get why people bring resetting skill buffs into Warlock legendary discussion.

 

Warlock is already equipped with that mechanics without the weapon. With full Warlock Dark Build, you are capable of throwing out the 25s cd Wingstorm within 5s after one ends. So it's rather pointless for Warlock to need any kind of reset beside its core skill which is Leech. Heck, you don't even need your "3," just leave it to Daze in case shiet happens.

Plus, the buff from Baleful is random and uncontrollable which is another factor you don't need to add to Warlock considering this is the most RNG dependent class in the game.

 

You can argue about the ridiculous buff proc requirement of Seraph or how dps may be different, but resetting skills buff for Warlock? Really?

I would say you are right with all. BUT: Imprison (3) should be skilled on left side. Because then you will have have an additional 6sec lower cooldown on leech. Together with seraph the cooldown of leech will be super low. Leaving it on Daze would be a massive dps loss. but the rest is right :D 

Edited by NYYankee
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8 hours ago, Ganhur said:

With all the dragoncalls I throw during Leech plus Imprision, at Seraph stage 4 the actual cool down I have to wait for Leech is pretty much already around 25s.

The example was without any other skills than leech and imprison. Sure you would have a much lower cooldown on stage 10 together with dragoncall :) 

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14 hours ago, Ganhur said:

Warlock is already equipped with that mechanics without the weapon. With full Warlock Dark Build, you are capable of throwing out the 25s cd Wingstorm within 5s after one ends. So it's rather pointless for Warlock to need any kind of reset beside its core skill which is Leech. Heck, you don't even need your "3," just leave it to Daze in case shiet happens.

sounds like you never bother to reset wingstorm(+dragoncall if you use that) with ss, and if you argue that imprison is unnecessary then the leech cdr from seraph is equally unnecessary lol. 

Also 5s without wingstorm is a loooooot of down time, you can fit in another wingstorm + extra helix from wingstorm in that 5s gap

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3 hours ago, adbe said:

sounds like you never bother to reset wingstorm(+dragoncall if you use that) with ss, and if you argue that imprison is unnecessary then the leech cdr from seraph is equally unnecessary lol. 

Also 5s without wingstorm is a loooooot of down time, you can fit in another wingstorm + extra helix from wingstorm in that 5s gap

I killed Naksun with Dragoncalls build under 2minute with 680ap and hate relying on other class like FM and BM for party iframes, so you better bet I've mastered or know very well about SS iframe. And that 8s cd iframe that reset Wingstorm is parts of the mechanic I was talking about, it is the reason why you don't bloody need Baleful reset skill.

 

Leech for Dark Build is simply just an increased in overall damage, you don't need it like Dragoncall build does unless you have the soul badge, which I doubt most people here have. This is why Imprision is just secondary skill and replaceable and its 6s on Leech cool down is not too important for Dark Build. And you miss the point, it had nothing to do with Leech cd, the fact that I say "3" is unnecessary to reset Wingstorm is the point that Warlock doesn't need any skill reset outside of their mechanic, especially from Baleful.

 

Another thing about that 5s without wingstorm, how many Volley and Dark Rupture you can throw in between in that time to further reduce the cd? 5s gap barely mean much to HM Volley since you can perfectly throw Helixes without Wingstorm.

Edited by Ganhur
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  • 3 weeks later...

theres the thing, most fights take 30s to 2min, baleful wins

on the other hand, fights where it matters, take longer, and seraph wins with long fights

imprison cd reduce (coupled with reset) is so random, if boss moves - claiming that baleful gives you reset of imprison, so 6 sec off leech, hmmm i would like to see, how many times you manage to pull it off - oh my wep reset cd, imprison fast... maybe in tomb, nowhere else 

 

so im staying with seraph, losing in lowtier dungeons dps peen meter, but besides all, its so beautiful, and looks matters most, especially with so primitive difficulty content :P

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