WEEDED

Your overall opinions on BM and KFM ???

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WEEDED   

How would you rate these two classes

 

BM

PVP = ?/10

PVE = ?/10

Solo = ?/10

Party = ?/10

Difficulty = ?/10

 

KFM

PVP = ?/10

PVE = ?/10

Solo = ?/10

Party = ?/10

Difficulty = ?/10

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Kuronee   
2 hours ago, WEEDED said:

How would you rate these two classes

 

BM

PVP = ?/10

PVE = ?/10

Solo = ?/10

Party = ?/10

Difficulty = ?/10

 

KFM

PVP = ?/10

PVE = ?/10

Solo = ?/10

Party = ?/10

Difficulty = ?/10

PVP = 50/10(currently broken in pvp)

PVE = 40/10(Dragon tongue op atm)

Solo = 10/10

Party = 10/10

Difficulty = 4/10 (Would of gave lower but timing of q/e seems to take some skill)

 

KFM

PVP = 10/10

PVE = 10/10

Solo = 7/10

Party = 10/10

Difficulty = 10/10(for pvp) 6/10 for pve cause lack of 5sec resist

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caioc2   
2 hours ago, Kuronee said:

PVP = 50/10(currently broken in pvp)

PVE = 40/10(Dragon tongue op atm)

Solo = 10/10

Party = 10/10

Difficulty = 4/10 (Would of gave lower but timing of q/e seems to take some skill)

 

KFM

PVP = 10/10

PVE = 10/10

Solo = 7/10

Party = 10/10

Difficulty = 10/10(for pvp) 6/10 for pve cause lack of 5sec resist

I may have understood wrong, but does BM have 5 sec resist?

 

PS: I'm just new comer, and I  really  dont understad why 90% of posts here are some kind of QQ about classes, I havent noticed this far difference among classes but players... who knows...

Edited by caioc2

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Kuronee   
5 minutes ago, caioc2 said:

I may have understood wrong, but does BM have 5 sec resist?

 

PS: I'm just new comer, and I  really I dont understad why 90% of posts here are some kind of QQ about classes, I havent noticed this far difference among classes but players... who knows...

Bm have HM block and anti range resist

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caioc2   
6 minutes ago, Kuronee said:

Bm have HM block and anti range resist

Ok, where is the "5 sec resist" there?

 

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Kuronee   
16 minutes ago, caioc2 said:

Ok, where is the "5 sec resist" there?

 

Hm block is 5 seconds resist and Warding spirit is 10secs

Edited by Kuronee

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caioc2   
10 hours ago, Kuronee said:

Hm block is 5 seconds resist and Warding spirit is 10secs

Have to agree, KFM sux againts BM because of those. Sorry. Let's just change class then, because every BM have HM block and they spam it every 5 seconds....

 

BTW have you ever played both classes?

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Shuchin   

BM

PVP = 5/10

PVE = 6/10

Solo = 7/10

Party = 7/10

Difficulty = 7/10

 

KFM

PVP = 5/10

PVE = 8/10

Solo = 8/10

Party = 7/10

Difficulty = 8/10

 

Very similar ratings, but that's how I feel. BM would have fared worse before but now after the patch they have caught up a lot. And these are very good ratings by the way, I assume 5/10 to be average. Like I would rate

 

Warlock

PVP = 3/10

PVE = 5/10

Solo = 4/10

Party = 6/10

Difficulty = 3/10

 

but forcemaster

PVP = 7/10

PVE = 7/10

Solo = 6/10

Party = 6/10

Difficulty = 5/10

 

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I want to know how KFM's can counter everything you throw at them. I swear, trying to kill a KFM in 6v6 is so annoying. Counter, block, evade rinse and repeat 10 times.  Hell they even counter when I'm attacking them from behind.

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hwalien   
3 minutes ago, triplethreat said:

I want to know how KFM's can counter everything you throw at them. I swear, trying to kill a KFM in 6v6 is so annoying. Counter, block, evade rinse and repeat 10 times.  Hell they even counter when I'm attacking them from behind.

Not sure if its true but someone said auto aim lets you counters attacks coming from behind.

only place I pvp is in arena and so far I've never seen any KFM who counters everything.

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vita   
8 hours ago, triplethreat said:

I want to know how KFM's can counter everything you throw at them. I swear, trying to kill a KFM in 6v6 is so annoying. Counter, block, evade rinse and repeat 10 times.  Hell they even counter when I'm attacking them from behind.

HM Counter, the more stuff you throw at them the better, they are probably using Stage 1 Tier 5 which gives them

 

Heals the user 50% of the damage dealt
Recovers 3 focus on counter
Increases defense by 100% for 8 sec on counter
User resists damage and status effects for 1 sec on counter
User is resistant to stun, daze for 2 sec on counter

Edited by vita

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Kuronee   
16 hours ago, caioc2 said:

Have to agree, KFM sux againts BM because of those. Sorry. Let's just change class then, because every BM have HM block and they spam it every 5 seconds....

 

BTW have you ever played both classes?

Your response confused me, then again i am reading this at 2 am in the morning. No reason to change class. Both classes are strong but BM is one of the strongest pvp/pve classes atm. KFM can still be annoying as hell in pvp and still beat people. I only played KFM in aplha. Never once played BM. Though i face enough bms and kfms on a daily basis on my warlock. Also have a KFM and BM in my main static for desolate tomb.

 

15 hours ago, Shuchin said:

BM

PVP = 5/10

PVE = 6/10

Solo = 7/10

Party = 7/10

Difficulty = 7/10

 

KFM

PVP = 5/10

PVE = 8/10

Solo = 8/10

Party = 7/10

Difficulty = 8/10

 

Very similar ratings, but that's how I feel. BM would have fared worse before but now after the patch they have caught up a lot. And these are very good ratings by the way, I assume 5/10 to be average. Like I would rate

 

Warlock

PVP = 3/10

PVE = 5/10

Solo = 4/10

Party = 6/10

Difficulty = 3/10

 

but forcemaster

PVP = 7/10

PVE = 7/10

Solo = 6/10

Party = 6/10

Difficulty = 5/10

 

I would rated the exactly the same way you did expect for Difficulty.  Fire BM is stupidly easy to play even a monkey could do it.  lighting bm requires more skill though and is more rewarding if played right. I know it is your personal opinion and i respect that, but i will have to respectfully disagree with your rating for warlock and FM .

 

warlock has Amazing solo but much harder in pvp and weaker then Fm ever will be. FM is one of the easiest classes in pvp and pve. Warlock actually needs skill and proper rotation for.  If you *cricket* up the rotation on Warlock or don't click fast enough your dps will suffer.  Warlock has more buttons to press then FM. FM only needs to hit very few buttons to achieve maxim dps

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Avalyn   

That's what it looks like to outsiders. "OMG FIRE BM SO MUCH DAMAGE SO EASY OMFG"

All fire has done is increase the damage and cut the chi consumption in return for knowing how to play your CD's perfectly. If the opponent is smart, he will tab when BM has played their CD's in such a way that there will be no real damage that the BM can do even when he does catch him with no escape. The only reason fire BM looks easy is because these BM's have been playing for half a year or longer as mains on lightning build and can now use the threat of fire build to get you to tab at the wrong time more easily.

 

I can probably guarantee that almost all of you who are saying these kinds of things here are shallow enough to think it is as simple as "DUH FIRE TAB = TAB ESCAPE" and this is why you complain about how BM has the Blade Storm as well for conflagration to combo you when fire tab is on CD. 

 

Think back to fighting Lightning BM (or any class for that matter). What goes into the consideration of whether you tab or not? Some main deciding factors are:

1) Did my opponent tab yet

2) Do I have confidence I can land the daze

3) What escapes besides tab am I able to try using first

4) Will I die if I don't tab/will they have enough damage to kill me afterwards if I live without tabbing.

5) What CC's have they used and what do they have left

 

Because you are so hung up on the fire tab with fire BM in this patch, you have all forgotten about everything else on the list, namely #4 and #5. Unlike Lightning, a fire BM MUST STAY IN DRAW STANCE to combo you for any significant/life threatening amount of HP. A fire BM only has 2 CC's to combo you with in draw stance, Raid extension and Stun Flicker. Conflagration only lasts 3 seconds on fire tab, 4 on bladestorm.

 

 

Let this sink in for a minute.

 

 

Switching stance (back to basic stance where all the other CC's are and then back to draw stance to try to dragontongue) is incredibly time consuming. If you switch stance at all while conflagration is ticking, you would be lucky to get 2 dragontongues out. This means that, yes, while Fire Tab is incredibly threatening, what you really care about is whether or not they have used raid and flicker. Without these 2, even if they blade storm you for 4 seconds conflagration, it means absolutely nothing to you.

Edited by Avalyn

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Shuchin   
2 hours ago, Kuronee said:

I know it is your personal opinion and i respect that, but i will have to respectfully disagree with your rating for warlock and FM .

As I have much less experience at playing those two classes, I thank you for being so polite in correcting me. ^_^

 

Considering your response, I probably agree the difficulty rating of Warlocks should be 5/10 or 6/10. The 5/10 I gave to FM was influenced a lot by their struggle to do well in PvP. But if I factor that in for WL they would also need to be considered higher. Difficulty rating is a hard thing to set anyway, as PvE is usually so much easier than PvP. So what do I go by for a difficulty rating, PvP or PvE. Hard to decide. With KFM my decision was made easier by the way KFM are expected to juggle anicancel, buffs, bleed, pressure points, dodges/counters and threat at the same time. Making their difficulty equally high in PvE as in PvP. The good thing is most times I do not need to deal with all of this: Big party usually takes care of the bleed. BM can do the tanking, also reducing the amount of dodging/countering needed. Then what remains is just timing your buffs and pressure points right to fit in optimally with boss phases, other party members buffs (SB, blue), grabs and doing your anicancel right. So easy. ^_^'

Edited by Shuchin

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Shuchin   
17 hours ago, triplethreat said:

I want to know how KFM's can counter everything you throw at them. I swear, trying to kill a KFM in 6v6 is so annoying. Counter, block, evade rinse and repeat 10 times.  Hell they even counter when I'm attacking them from behind.

The counter skill does not work against attacks directly from behind, but the angle is generous (a little more than 180 degrees).

 

Without writing a lengthy 6v6 KFM PvP guide, here are some points on how to be "unkillable" in 6v6:

 

dodge > counter > iron shoulder (each one specced for % heal, this will heal you 7% of your max health and stack 1 or 2 agility)

dodge > counter > avenging fist (fist specced for approach block removal and iframe. Will heal you 4%, allows smite aircombo, completes max agility )

SS > healing pot (SS iframe lasts a little longer than the movement, securing your pot use. will heal you 30%)

Flurry (either 1 sec iframe short CD or 2 sec iframe long CD)

various aircombos (give you 100% evasion)

ice guard (3 second ice immunity to let your cooldowns come back)

comet strike with amulet > 1 sec CC immunity

TAB grab escape (5% heal)

 

Have high crit def and a high belt for high in-combat health regen. Also pet and high defense.

 

You can still be killed by people who know how to hit through evasion and time their attacks right. But often you can hold out long enough for reinforcements to arrive. ^_^

 

Edited by Shuchin

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Kuronee   
7 hours ago, Avalyn said:

That's what it looks like to outsiders. "OMG FIRE BM SO MUCH DAMAGE SO EASY OMFG"

All fire has done is increase the damage and cut the chi consumption in return for knowing how to play your CD's perfectly. If the opponent is smart, he will tab when BM has played their CD's in such a way that there will be no real damage that the BM can do even when he does catch him with no escape. The only reason fire BM looks easy is because these BM's have been playing for half a year or longer as mains on lightning build and can now use the threat of fire build to get you to tab at the wrong time more easily.

 

I can probably guarantee that almost all of you who are saying these kinds of things here are shallow enough to think it is as simple as "DUH FIRE TAB = TAB ESCAPE" and this is why you complain about how BM has the Blade Storm as well for conflagration to combo you when fire tab is on CD. 

 

Think back to fighting Lightning BM (or any class for that matter). What goes into the consideration of whether you tab or not? Some main deciding factors are:

1) Did my opponent tab yet

2) Do I have confidence I can land the daze

3) What escapes besides tab am I able to try using first

4) Will I die if I don't tab/will they have enough damage to kill me afterwards if I live without tabbing.

5) What CC's have they used and what do they have left

 

Because you are so hung up on the fire tab with fire BM in this patch, you have all forgotten about everything else on the list, namely #4 and #5. Unlike Lightning, a fire BM MUST STAY IN DRAW STANCE to combo you for any significant/life threatening amount of HP. A fire BM only has 2 CC's to combo you with in draw stance, Raid extension and Stun Flicker. Conflagration only lasts 3 seconds on fire tab, 4 on bladestorm.

 

 

Let this sink in for a minute.

 

 

Switching stance (back to basic stance where all the other CC's are and then back to draw stance to try to dragontongue) is incredibly time consuming. If you switch stance at all while conflagration is ticking, you would be lucky to get 2 dragontongues out. This means that, yes, while Fire Tab is incredibly threatening, what you really care about is whether or not they have used raid and flicker. Without these 2, even if they blade storm you for 4 seconds conflagration, it means absolutely nothing to you.

This post made me cringe and have a headache. On how  biased it is and how I feel it is directed at me. I also not given a actual response this because  it is not worth my time. I don't feel like arguing with you and end up derailing the thread. We can happily agree to disagree on BM. Also I never said fire bm tab.

7 hours ago, Shuchin said:

As I have much less experience at playing those two classes, I thank you for being so polite in correcting me. ^_^

 

Considering your response, I probably agree the difficulty rating of Warlocks should be 5/10 or 6/10. The 5/10 I gave to FM was influenced a lot by their struggle to do well in PvP. But if I factor that in for WL they would also need to be considered higher. Difficulty rating is a hard thing to set anyway, as PvE is usually so much easier than PvP. So what do I go by for a difficulty rating, PvP or PvE. Hard to decide. With KFM my decision was made easier by the way KFM are expected to juggle anicancel, buffs, bleed, pressure points, dodges/counters and threat at the same time. Making their difficulty equally high in PvE as in PvP. The good thing is most times I do not need to deal with all of this: Big party usually takes care of the bleed. BM can do the tanking, also reducing the amount of dodging/countering needed. Then what remains is just timing your buffs and pressure points right to fit in optimally with boss phases, other party members buffs (SB, blue), grabs and doing your anicancel right. So easy. ^_^'

Your very welcome mate. I am generally a polite person. I only get annoyed or little  mean when  I am being attacked or dealing with stupidity.

 

Yeah the reason  why warlocks struggle in pvp. It because you need immense skill or win trading to get high up. They were over nerfed in the past and ncsoft very slowly trying to make them up to par to other classes again. plus they escapes. Pve is just rotation and cd watching.

 

Speaking of parties it is true that kfm has lot to do. because of cancel and being long reliant. High ping hurts kfm's. Having a warlock and BM in party makes bleed easy. While kfm lack in dps. They make up for in tanking ability, blue buff and tremor for party. Wind kfm is lot more work but more fun. Fire kfm is lot easier and good with higher ping

 

Your correct bms tank and offer amazing party support. While having top dps in fire build. HM block is a life saver. I know BMs dodges can  be wonky but I find kfm to be more fun and rewarding. I hate facing them in pvp

 

on the subject of pvp for fms. I would agree they seem hard but in reality sadly they aren't. Good fm can easily keep you stun lock against a wall with little effort thanks to freeze spam and impact. Most lmb rmb spam then impact. Phantom grab chuck you against a wall. Then constantly impact you against it.

 

Overall if it is a 4man I rather have a BM tank and a sin/kfm blue buff, Warlock, bd/summoner

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59 minutes ago, Kuronee said:

Having a warlock and BM in party makes bleed easy. While kfm lack in dps.

Since when BMs can stack bleed easily? Our only way to stack bleed is through Rush on 30 sec CD unless you spec the right tree which is 9sec cd and then rip our stun.

 

Sorry but if you think KFM lacks dps you never played with a good one.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Kuronee said:

Fire BM is stupidly easy to play even a monkey could do it.  lighting bm requires more skill though and is more rewarding if played right.

FM is one of the easiest classes in pvp

I lol'ed. Hard.

 

Ok, I'll remember to ignore or not take any of your posts seriously from now.

 

Then again, this coming from someone who has never played BM, I don't think I should expect better. FMs being easy in pvp though..... wut????

Edited by OniOfTheSword

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Shukran   

august KR tourney was won by  a BM.

 

kfm kicked out before semifinals.

 

obviously  Kr players must be noobs who cannot counter a BM.

 

last Na/EU (or just EU probably) was won by a BM.

obviously all players who partecipate torneys nowadays are all noobs that cannot counter BM. which is THAT hard and while other classes just joined the tourney because they are easy pisy to play, BM had to train hard for years in loneliness to achieve secrets of their class otherwise they could not even get a chance to win.

 

oh my....

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30 minutes ago, Shukran said:

august KR tourney was won by  a BM.

 

kfm kicked out before semifinals.

 

obviously  Kr players must be noobs who cannot counter a BM.

 

last Na/EU (or just EU probably) was won by a BM.

obviously all players who partecipate torneys nowadays are all noobs that cannot counter BM. which is THAT hard and while other classes just joined the tourney because they are easy pisy to play, BM had to train hard for years in loneliness to achieve secrets of their class otherwise they could not even get a chance to win.

 

oh my....

You conveniently forgot stuff there though.

First 1v1 tourney was won by an FM, he went 4-0 against a BM.

 

 

 

Final 1v1 tourney was won by a SF, he went 4-0 against BM also. 

 

 

But yeah, KR players do seem to be noobs who can't counter BM. Or maybe, even if they do, we don't want to see it cause otherwise, we can't cry about BM OP. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

To respond to OP on topic,

BM and KFM are the only two classes I've played since I like tanking. Instead of scoring them, I'll go over what I think about both in each category.

 

PvE - I find both of them to be equally demanding in terms of responding to attacks. BM has the advantage of having a block that can be held through multi hit attacks, but have to be very precise in timing iframes cause our Q/E iframes are only about 0.5 long. KFM can't deal with multi hit attacks as well with just counter, especially attacks that don't happen within 1s. They'll need to use their Q/E in addition to their counter. But they have an easier time iframing red aoes since the iframes last a long time. 

 

Once boss attack patterns are familiar, they can both deal with it real well. BM provides excellent defensive utility with HM block, warding spirit in a pinch (if they save this instead of using it offensively for max burst), but don't provide an offense boost to the party. KFMs provide multiple offense boosts to the party with Searing palm, Fighting spirit, and can deal massive damage themselves. Here's an example:

 

On a solo basis, a KFM will outdps a BM because of the boosts they have. Even a fire BM will struggle to compete. In a party setting, if the BM were in the same party as the KFM, then the BM benefits from the party boosts also, and that's why they can edge ahead in damage. So if you like providing defensive party utility, you can't go wrong with BM, and if you like providing offensive party utility, you can't go wrong with KFM.

 

PvP:

I haven't pvp'ed extensively on either char, but after the skill patch, BMs did get an enormous boost to their burst potential. KFMs can play a better neutral game than BMs thanks to their mobile counter and i-frames that proc stuns, all this without too many HM skills. BMs need multiple HM skills (HM block, HM lightning draw, HM Z) to become the beast that everyone makes them out to be right now.

 

They both have about the same number of CCs, and are equally difficult to play. Prior to the skill patch, BMs only had one source of doing a high damage combo, and that was on a one minute cooldown. Now they have a huge burst in exchange for giving up a CC, but they have to leave themselves vulnerable to being hit by escapes in order to do high damage from that opening.

 

For open world pvp, KFM is simply better. Especially on 1vMulti opponent matchups, their kit is amazing. HM counter gives you infinite i-frames given the number of people who spam into it, and Q/E resists > max agility gives you a lot of chance to escape if there are too many people around. BMs can output a lot of damage, but don't have nearly as much survivability.

Edited by OniOfTheSword

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Shukran   

SEASON 2

 

they should hire you because it seems like u can win against all these BM ....

 

then u can find me the EU or NA saviors

 

Edited by Shukran

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hwalien   

based on noob skilled player(me)

 

BM

PVP = 8/10

PVE = 9/10

Solo = 9/10

Party = 7/10

Difficulty = 6/10

 

KFM

PVP = 6/10

PVE = 8/10

Solo = 8/10

Party = 8/10

Difficulty = 8/10

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Shuchin   
On 23/09/2016 at 9:12 PM, OniOfTheSword said:

For open world pvp, KFM is simply better. Especially on 1vMulti opponent matchups, their kit is amazing. HM counter gives you infinite i-frames given the number of people who spam into it, and Q/E resists > max agility gives you a lot of chance to escape if there are too many people around. BMs can output a lot of damage, but don't have nearly as much survivability.

Although I would have thought the same from what I know about the classes, the statistics currently place BMs much better than the KFMs in 6v6 rankings. My current theory is that KFMs have not adjusted their skill kits from arena to 6v6 enough to succeed as they should.

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