The Op Summ in PvP

[Senndoh]

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70% of the game's playerbase

Indeed you validate my point.

 

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 There would be little to no change in the amount of shit that pops out of this game's community.

I'm sure would be less.

 

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There are more destroyer bots than there are actual Summoner players.

Well this is relative, in my experience every bot met in arena or at quartz location was a summoner. Meaningless though.

[Skynemis953]

Ok, nerf my summoner damage, but give me a spin (work it into the tab) and also extra abilities when cat dies. When cat dies give me and Q and E dash and cc of cat transferred to me in flower form (on C and V). Lastly an ice protection like fm but in flower form (on x). The flower protection can be like vines wrapping around summoner protecting it, and heals on hit. Don't forget the flock of branches aerial combo, like a combo of bd and bm.



or... maybe some cat spirit moves when cat dies to promote the "summoner" name.

[Raizou]

19 minutes ago, Skynemis953 said:

Ok, nerf my summoner damage, but give me a spin (work it into the tab) and also extra abilities when cat dies. When cat dies give me and Q and E dash and cc of cat transferred to me in flower form (on C and V). Lastly an ice protection like fm but in flower form (on x). The flower protection can be like vines wrapping around summoner protecting it, and heals on hit. Don't forget the flock of branches aerial combo, like a combo of bd and bm.



or... maybe some cat spirit moves when cat dies to promote the "summoner" name.

Or nerf summoners damage and give cat the skill "shadow clone" (which assas will get soon).

[Grimoir]

I swear....this thread....

 

Ok to all those wannabe's that give summoners a bad name cause they are bad:

 

Arena has a sparring option, no rank influnce, use it, ask a summoner to spar you, learn from it and move on.

 

And to add: 70% of player base is summoners, yet ppl complain that majority of summoners is in rankings...well....if 3/4 are summoners...and 1/4 is everything else...what do you expect?

 

 

[Narukoi]

I believe someone said this already, but I find it interesting how I argued with two people on my respective server about summoners and I was told, "Instead of calling people bad for not being able to beat summoners, why not teach each and every person that can't beat a summoner how to do it?"   The interesting part about this is that im certain there are a number of threads out there for each class that gives you tips and tricks on how to beat the other classes. Now if those same people aren't looking for those guides but instead would rather make multiple threads about how 'op summs are' why should I waste my time telling them info that's already out there?  On top of that, what do I look like basically telling you how to beat me, thats like superman going to literally ANY of the villians he fights and saying "hey, ya know if you just shoved some kryptonite up your butt that would prevent me from beating the crap out of you."  I don't understand why everyones go to explanation for them being bad is 'class x is too op cuz I am unable to beat it'. I personally have a butt of a time fighting kfms and destroyers yet I don't run around claiming they are op and need to be nerfed, I know the problem is with me (given those are kind of our hardest match-ups), I also know that with a kfm I need patience in not hitting them after they have used Q/E  and to keep my cat crouched as much as possible so it doesn't get too close if i get stunned and get stunned along with me. Destros...idk just run poison bees and hope for the best.

[Samyaza]

Meanwhile in real world Sum has one good matchup against BD (BD musn't use sleep though :D) and other against non top tier SF. at 45 sum was really strong since it really had its core kit, but as the time passed ALL classes got some usefull HM skills, meanwhile summoner got shit you wouldn't really even notice, esp. now after the overflow nerf (HM dandellion).

[Exonesia]

9 hours ago, Grimoir said:

On the next episode of bragon ball Z:

 

 

Lets nerf destroyers and blade dancers spin. Lets make it so they loose CC immunity and it doesnt stagger / stun you if you hit them spinning. They are too overpowered with their one button spam.

 

/sarcasm

i think you've missed my point from the thread you quoted me in; spinning classes can be dealt with, IF THE POT DOESN'T BLOCK SKILLS

 

the pot prevents my skills from activating with how large it is, so they can spin without getting targeted by my skills at all

[Grimoir]

3 hours ago, Exonesia said:

i think you've missed my point from the thread you quoted me in; spinning classes can be dealt with, IF THE POT DOESN'T BLOCK SKILLS

 

the pot prevents my skills from activating with how large it is, so they can spin without getting targeted by my skills at all

yeah but if u remove the spin you remove the problem :D xD

[luzt]

 

Lol, is this the reaction for an easy match?

[Grimstar]

Today i had to do 7 matches, to win 1 game. I had 6 matches with 2-3 summoners in the enemy team, combine that with some bd or destroyers, and u simply dont stand a chance. Summoners are so easy mode and OP in bg (also toi) it aint funny anymore.

Why should a class have everything? 

- Pierce on skills

- Alot of cc's (6-7)

- invisible

- A cat (which alone has more cc's then some classes)

- A cat grab 

- Heals

- The most easy dps combo ingame

 

Its like they created a class out of pity for people who arent good in mmorpg's and gave them everything..

[Raizou]

I have done a wwv match today:

 

my team: me (sf) + 5 (bms, destros and  assa) --> all silver

 

opponents team: 2 assas, 1 bd -->silver; 3 sums --> all gold...

 

You should know, which team have won "in a few seconds"....

[Alysha Hawkeye]

14 hours ago, Grimstar said:

Today i had to do 7 matches, to win 1 game. I had 6 matches with 2-3 summoners in the enemy team, combine that with some bd or destroyers, and u simply dont stand a chance. Summoners are so easy mode and OP in bg (also toi) it aint funny anymore.

Why should a class have everything? 

- Pierce on skills

- Alot of cc's (6-7)

- invisible

- A cat (which alone has more cc's then some classes)

- A cat grab 

- Heals

- The most easy dps combo ingame

 

Its like they created a class out of pity for people who arent good in mmorpg's and gave them everything..

1/ Not all skill has parry pierce, except for some long cooldown CCs. LMB can pierce parry, but not block/counter.

 

2/ They are very lacking of escape skills. Q and E is for their cat. They have a F roll, a 1 counter when grab/grabble, and a Tab. You may add their E and X too, but it will go on a long cooldown, and need their cat alive and stand on its feet to do. So they go stealth.

 

3/ Cat has 2/3 of summoner's kits: 4 CCs (V, C, E, Tab), Grab and Knockup. It also provides two resist buttons. Kill or CC the cat and Summoner won't be able to do any of those.

 

4/ Their cat grab is now on 24s cooldown and 4s grab, and there are classes with two Tabs skills to escape these.

 

5/ Without heal, they are very squishy. Counter this with Deep Wound. Either you fight them fast, or fight a drag-on fight, up to your skills.

 

6/ Easiest combo for sustainable dps. However, they lack of burst.

[azraelkun]

On 13/9/2016 at 11:48 AM, Narukoi said:

This topic is retardly stupid as well as a lot of these responses. I find it interesting how when this balance patch was announced everyone was all "oh summs got hit with the nerf bat hard they gonna suck now they gonna require skill now blah blah blah."  Yet here we are...still being told summoners are op. Just like people are saying in the bm thread about them being too op, learn how to play and you'll be fine.

Fyi this patch sum didnt get netfed but boosted js

How u came to this conclusion about nerf?

[azraelkun]

On 13/9/2016 at 1:31 PM, QRob said:

You know nothing, Southwind.
It doesn't mean that blance fix needed, it means that eu and na lack of good players (with other classes)
I can say it again, take korea as the picture, cuz what's there that shows the things clearly. you cannot base you opinion on a dying game like eu and na bns, which don't have as much (and as good) players as korea do.

Dude plz korean players are bad saw turnaments na has so many good players that if they get the chance they will wreck koreans n all others.

Vile na xukania eu vrezy or something na virus half of sluckers clan 

[Grimoir]

34 minutes ago, azraelkun said:

Fyi this patch sum didnt get netfed but boosted js

How u came to this conclusion about nerf?

You missunderstood, he meant that players were saying summoners get nerfed while it was a buff as experienced summoners said.

 

11 minutes ago, azraelkun said:

Dude plz korean players are bad saw turnaments na has so many good players that if they get the chance they will wreck koreans n all others.

Vile na xukania eu vrezy or something na virus half of sluckers clan 

if NA/EU players would be so good they wouldnt make crybaby topics about summoners but know how to beat them.

[Avalyn]

You too can be god level summoner in 4 easy steps

 

On 9/7/2016 at 10:00 PM, Avalyn said:

Literally the only things that separate good summoners and bad summoners:

 

1) Dandelion usage

Good summoners can predict exactly when you'll try to hit them and use their dandelion at that time. If you're melee this makes life hell because your only option is to not hit them unless you have a ranged guard break off CD. This is also part of why BM was absolutely steamrolled by summoner and only got marginally better recently, because BM was the only class with no ranged guard break. And if they know you have it off CD they're going to either petalstorm or use the iframe dandelion. For some reason most lower rated summoners don't even know that they have dandelion skill and so you can land anything you want on them.

 

2) Hiding behind the cat. 

Yeah for some reason none of the lower rated summoners have realized how ridiculously hard to deal with this is in a game with camera based targeting. Add to that point #1, a lot of summoners will hide behind their cat and then when you walk to the side and finally get their target (actually they just let you get their target by purposely standing still) they have you hit into their dandelion.

 

3) Threatening the opponent with grapple

Every player knows that the first rule of fighting summoner is, "if you use your escape on anything other than the grapple you're going to get  fked." This means that summoner can spam any CC they want and then spam bees during it. Bees was ALWAYS better than sunflower. The opponent knows that they can't tab so they literally have to eat all the damage. By the time you run out of CC and actually do grapple, you don't even care if they tab out because you got like 80% of their HP already.

 

4) Protecting your cat

Pretty straightforward. Don't let the cat die. Know when to heal it and when to tank it.

 

 

Basically given these things about how summoner is supposed to be played, it's fairly obvious that no decent summoner would ever call this patch a nerf. Now there's even a huge healing boost which makes it way harder to even screw up.

 

[azraelkun]

11 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

You missunderstood, he meant that players were saying summoners get nerfed while it was a buff as experienced summoners said.

 

if NA/EU players would be so good they wouldnt make crybaby topics about summoners but know how to beat them.

Those players dont come in forum they are training xd js

[Narukoi]

2 hours ago, azraelkun said:

Fyi this patch sum didnt get netfed but boosted js

How u came to this conclusion about nerf?

You must not read the forums, but someone answered your question anyway so I don't need to go any further.
 

19 hours ago, Grimstar said:

Today i had to do 7 matches, to win 1 game. I had 6 matches with 2-3 summoners in the enemy team, combine that with some bd or destroyers, and u simply dont stand a chance. Summoners are so easy mode and OP in bg (also toi) it aint funny anymore.

Why should a class have everything? 

- Pierce on skills

- Alot of cc's (6-7)

- invisible

- A cat (which alone has more cc's then some classes)

- A cat grab 

- Heals

- The most easy dps combo ingame

 

Its like they created a class out of pity for people who arent good in mmorpg's and gave them everything..

Your post is gonna be ever so fun. Let's start with this invisibility status we have....who cares? you can easily knock us out of it. You mention we have a lot of cc's so lets go ahead and break those down based off what the summoner can do with and without the cat...

 

- Without cat: Thorn strike (can kd or daze), Roots...oh wow only 2 okay moving on

- With cat: Pounce, cat hammer, lunge, cat kd, I guess we will count knock up into that too...thats 5

 

Now that is what summoners have in terms of their cc. Now I don't feel like going into how many cc's the other classes have. Yet how many times have we seen a summoner cc someone and take them from 100 - 0?  Never, how many times have we seen every other class do it (aside from maybe warlock)...all the time. You mention heals, in terms of heals for ourself, we have doom n bloom which only heals us for 50% of the damage we have dealt which isn't much. We have the new heal which (aside from popular belief) heals us for 10% which a 45sec cd. We also have the ability to take hp from our cat and give it to ourselves which is a double edged sword because we're killing our cat. You say we have the most easy dps combo ingame, which hey you aren't wrong on that we basically just use bees and rosethorn for our damage, yet again. Who has ever been caught by a summoner in arena, battleground, or open world with equal gear, get caught in a combo and be killed from it?  Now who has been caught in a combo from a kfm/bd/destro/kfm/fm and watched their hp go from full to nothing?

 

At the end of the day most of you complain as if you are undefeated against every other class but summoners which I highly doubt is the case.

[Volinus]

Invisibility counters are overpowered. Enemy waste cooldown time while you gain a lot of time to fill your own cooldown.

 

If the same class fight against each other the most boring matches are sin vs sin and sum vs sum.

[Narukoi]

5 minutes ago, Volinus said:

Invisibility counters are overpowered. Enemy waste cooldown time while you gain a lot of time to fill your own cooldown.

 

If the same class fight against each other the most boring matches are sin vs sin and sum vs sum.

 

Correction, all mirror matches are boring to watch.

[Grimstar]

2 hours ago, Narukoi said:

Your post is gonna be ever so fun. Let's start with this invisibility status we have....who cares? you can easily knock us out of it. You mention we have a lot of cc's so lets go ahead and break those down based off what the summoner can do with and without the cat...

 

- Without cat: Thorn strike (can kd or daze), Roots...oh wow only 2 okay moving on

- With cat: Pounce, cat hammer, lunge, cat kd, I guess we will count knock up into that too...thats 

At the end of the day most of you complain as if you are undefeated against every other class but summoners which I highly doubt is the case.

Once u summoner cat grabs u in 1 vs 1, it's basicly over since they can easely get 40-50% of your health in those 4s. They might not be able to 100-0 u, but its still the easyest grab ingame, having your pet grab someone, and still having all your normal skills to dps. 

I'm playing a fm and we only have 2 cc's, one with 36s cd, the other with 18s cd (<-we have to be melee range, most fm dont spec the cc version, but the normal one for launching someone in the air). So for PvP We basicly have 1 cc which doesnt even have pierce. We have to stack chill 3x to be able to stun (which lasts 1s), while our only pierce skill (frost tornado) only pierces parry. Imagine playing against a class like bd/destr/bm with parry, fun times trying to stack chill.

 

I'm wondering, how many of your cc's pierce parry/block? And what are the cd's of your cc's?

 

8 hours ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

3/ Kill or CC the cat and Summoner won't be able to do any of those.

Problem is, a good summ calls his cat back the moment we try to sleep it. The other way around to, if u try to sleep the summ and kill the cat, they simply change place.

And if u manage to sleep the cat, they simply park on top of it, and do nothing till it wakes up or u hit it. In 1 vs 1 it often happens u manage to sleep the cat, but in bg or toi, u can forget that plan, that annoying thing will always be at your feet.

 

 

[Alysha Hawkeye]

8 hours ago, Grimstar said:

 

 

Problem is, a good summ calls his cat back the moment we try to sleep it. The other way around to, if u try to sleep the summ and kill the cat, they simply change place.

And if u manage to sleep the cat, they simply park on top of it, and do nothing till it wakes up or u hit it. In 1 vs 1 it often happens u manage to sleep the cat, but in bg or toi, u can forget that plan, that annoying thing will always be at your feet.

 

 

You cannot expect to rely solely on the sleep-this-or-sleep-that tactic to win, but diverse your own strategy against different matches. What kind of cooldown have your forced your Summoner to burn? How many CC have the Summoner used? Is it safe to blow your big hits now without being interrupted? etc.

 

You will meet good summoners and bad summoners, and how you cope against good summoner in the midst of battle is what make pvp exciting and thrilling, unless you want every match the same like in Tower of Infinity. There is no one-win button or tactic when you face against a competent player, be it Summoner or Kung Fu Master.

 

Let make it fancy with a quote from Sun Tzu, a famous Chinese strategist: 

 

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

[Jackiesaysya]

lol @ summoners being "op".

At the end of of the last pvp season only 2 summoners where in top 50.(40+ rank). Think in the last couple days maybe a third squeezed into top 50.

What class do you main? I can link some vids showing how just about any class can easily wreck summoner.

Assuming both lvl 50 hm 10 with hm skills.

 

[Holybread]

if you can't defeat them.... join them make yourself a summoner too... or don't check rankings so you won't be disappointed...

[Narukoi]

On 9/19/2016 at 10:27 AM, Grimstar said:

Once u summoner cat grabs u in 1 vs 1, it's basicly over since they can easely get 40-50% of your health in those 4s. They might not be able to 100-0 u, but its still the easyest grab ingame, having your pet grab someone, and still having all your normal skills to dps. 

I'm playing a fm and we only have 2 cc's, one with 36s cd, the other with 18s cd (<-we have to be melee range, most fm dont spec the cc version, but the normal one for launching someone in the air). So for PvP We basicly have 1 cc which doesnt even have pierce. We have to stack chill 3x to be able to stun (which lasts 1s), while our only pierce skill (frost tornado) only pierces parry. Imagine playing against a class like bd/destr/bm with parry, fun times trying to stack chill.

 

I'm wondering, how many of your cc's pierce parry/block? And what are the cd's of your cc's?

 

 

Every class, (literally, every) has a combo set up that you save your one good escape for. For BD's its usually the moment you see them go into lightning draw stance, for bms usually the same. For kfms it's the moment they start that 3rf crap after the second kd/stun they get you in. For summoners it's the moment our cat is on you. Pounce only lasts for  3secs with a cd of about 24 secs. Now I cannot log ingame cuz its maint so this info will be based off whats listed in the  bnstree website which is currently incorrect but it will at least give you a basic idea. Imma break this down into summoner based and cat based CC's

 

Summoner: Thorn strike - dazes for 2secs, 24 sec cd, cd can be reduced by 3secs for each crit with sunflower.  The kd version is the same. 

                      Grasping Roots - All 3 versions have a 24 sec cd, roots cd can be reset upon successful counter. Single target roots can have its cd reduced down to 8 secs IF it is used on a knocked down opponent. We also have that tower charm thing which allows for us to reset the cd of our roots (i believe in half) if the first hit of briar patch connects.

 

Cat:  Cat Hammer:  18sec cd, we already discussed pounce so no need to rediscuss it.

         Anklebiter/Cat bomb: 18 sec cd

         Uppercut: 18sec cd, its probably longer now im not sure again bnstree skills are incorrect atm.

         Beckon : 30secs, there is a tower thingy for that too which allows us to reset the cd on that if we use cat shield which has a 45sec cd.

 

In terms of what goes through parry defense, HM bomb and HM roots, the roots cannot be reset upon counter unless we use the single target HM version.  Now I took this part out of your post but now thinking about it I should probably drop a bit more knowledge. You say its not easy to sleep a summoners cat because we jsut recall it. 1 how is that a bad thing? heck for you thats a good think cuz we jsut wasted our CC version of beckon and wont be able to use that version for 30secs. 2, its really easy to prevent us from recalling it, it's called run away from us. The moment you gain about what.....31m distance from us we cant recall the cat anymore and as an fm that should be easy considering yall have like 18 different dashes and back steps (then again a good summoner will just spec our cat to escape grabs which that has a cd on it too).