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The Op Summ in PvP


arthur500

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In The World Martial Arts Tournament 3 out of first 10 places are Summoners

In 3 Tags 6 out of first 10 places are Summoners

In Tower of infinity the first 5 players are all Summoners

In Whirlind Valley 7 out of the first 10 places are Summoner

 

Is it just me who see that summ are to OP in pvp. Im not asking for a nerf because i dont give a *cricket* anymore, i just want to tell someone about it because its not fair for the people that ar doing PvP and dont have a Summoner

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And another topic....

 

6v6 ranking is useless since ppl exploit the living hell out of it.

 

3v3 is easy to rank up in if you are good and have a premade team

 

1v1 - has it ever occured to you the players are actually good at their class ?

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They know that it is an issue. NCSoft will not do anything about it. They wont hear you out. Summoners are worst in 6v6 imo. The heal, endless knockdown, and stupid grabs are too much to deal with. If they have crit def, you'll spend days killing them...DAYS! You better freaking pray you dont go against three of them at the same time. 

 

I think they should increase the cooldown skill of "True Friend". 

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2 hours ago, Grimoir said:

And another topic....

 

6v6 ranking is useless since ppl exploit the living hell out of it.

 

3v3 is easy to rank up in if you are good and have a premade team

 

1v1 - has it ever occured to you the players are actually good at their class ?

Dood do you even go in 3v3 or 1v1 or are you just saying stuff.

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I do. Gold ranked.  Had several 3v3 matches where it wasnt even needed to tag in cause 1 player basically killed all 3 oponents.

 

let me also add

 we are on nearly the same balance patch as kr and long and behold kr has no issues fighting summoners but na players do....

 

says a lot doesnt it ?

 

yall keep crying bout summoners but if you ask the actually good pvp players they will tell you they have no issues beating summoners.

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Everybody knows summoners are a broken class, even themselves. The thing is, NCSoft don't care about our opinion, they probably don't even read our topics. At arena? Ok... Sometimes you find very bad summoners and you beat them, even though still with some difficult. At the 6v6 they only need some critical defense and voilà, you will probably need a good part of your team to kill them (not easily, though). Plus, their cat have more HP than us, so???????? How are we supposed to kill that cat? Everybody got used to the fact that the 6v6 isn't balanced anyway and there is nothing we can do about it, but having 3 summoners with critical defense in the enemy team is like having to fight against 9 people (counting their cats)... Even after they die the cat keep attacking us, and it makes us waste time. Summoner is the cancer of this game!

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Now how is summoner broken?

 

All i see are people complaining because:

 

1. They blow their escapes when its not needed -> they die

2. Fall for the bait out and get pinned by the cat -> they die

3. Try to kill the cat first -> they die

4. Have no idea how a summoner works and tap in to every single bait

5. Complain about summoner heal while they keep attacking them ranged in petals or hit them during their resist

6. Run around and try to sleep the cat

 

Summoners are very easy to beat unless they are actually and really good ones. Stop crying for nerfing a class where the issue isnt the class but your own skills.

A summoner may be more forgiving and easier to play but it still requires a lot of brain to beat one.

Also you should know that when a summoner dies, all the cat can do is bump you with its head nothing more, it cant CC, cant attack, cant do anything.

Also 6v6 is a team based battleground you are not supposed to go solo in on people there. I have seen so many 6v6 where people just wrekt summoners because they actually used brains to kill them. And do you really think summoner is all about spamming 2 buttons? Every good summoner knows when to not hit a kfm to avoid giving them their buff, or attacking a bm during their ranged deflect, or  when to cc a destroyer or bd, or when not to hit a FM / when to CC them, its not rocket science,

 

If summoners are soo op, how is it that a big majority of the players actually has no issues beating them? Every few days comes a thread "summoner too op" how about a rant against other classes? How about broken BM at the moment? Or KFM with their 100-0 combos?

Wonder what you would say if the cat got removed and all the CC ability would go to the summoner and summs would be like a BM / KFM just with heals? Would you cry then too?

 

This is seriously getting ridiculous, and not in a good way.

 

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You always will be defending your own class, cause you don't want devs to nerf it. But summoner is op and this is a fact. U need very simple math and basic theory of probability. Just look at the rankings 1vs1 and Infinity Tower, the two reliabe ones. Look at the larger group, for example 1-300 ranks (more ranks = more accuracte). Summoners are dominating. You can't just say all sumoners are playing so good, so they mastered their class (plus better gear on IT), and every other class are lame and undergeared.

 

People can QQ, and they are subjective. Math isn't. 

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14 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Now how is summoner broken?

 

All i see are people complaining because:

 

1. They blow their escapes when its not needed -> they die

2. Fall for the bait out and get pinned by the cat -> they die

3. Try to kill the cat first -> they die

4. Have no idea how a summoner works and tap in to every single bait

5. Complain about summoner heal while they keep attacking them ranged in petals or hit them during their resist

6. Run around and try to sleep the cat

 

Summoners are very easy to beat unless they are actually and really good ones. Stop crying for nerfing a class where the issue isnt the class but your own skills.

A summoner may be more forgiving and easier to play but it still requires a lot of brain to beat one.

Also you should know that when a summoner dies, all the cat can do is bump you with its head nothing more, it cant CC, cant attack, cant do anything.

Also 6v6 is a team based battleground you are not supposed to go solo in on people there. I have seen so many 6v6 where people just wrekt summoners because they actually used brains to kill them. And do you really think summoner is all about spamming 2 buttons? Every good summoner knows when to not hit a kfm to avoid giving them their buff, or attacking a bm during their ranged deflect, or  when to cc a destroyer or bd, or when not to hit a FM / when to CC them, its not rocket science,

 

If summoners are soo op, how is it that a big majority of the players actually has no issues beating them? Every few days comes a thread "summoner too op" how about a rant against other classes? How about broken BM at the moment? Or KFM with their 100-0 combos?

Wonder what you would say if the cat got removed and all the CC ability would go to the summoner and summs would be like a BM / KFM just with heals? Would you cry then too?

 

This is seriously getting ridiculous, and not in a good way.

 

Yea i was againts gold summoner yesterday, dmg was small but what made me lose? Resist for 10 sec and low cd, his flower is hard to see if cat is around because cat will cover the model, and cat does cc and dmg + summoner has its own CC (which should not even happend in *cricket*in game like that). Its difficult to aim at summoner becasue we dont have lock target mechanic (other action mmos do, strange isnt it?) . IF you dont attack cat, cat gonna *cricket* you while summoner can run and run. They have broken heal now more than any class which should be happening. And you compare KR to our server WHERE we should HAVE different gameplay system (ofc not much of difference but at least noticeable one) and i bet summs are at top there. 

 

You throw BMS and KFMs, i can agree with BMs cuz i met the flame build one and he killed me like in one stun but KFMs combo was here for all the time but lemme tell you this the KFMs COMBO is not that easy AND you dont see many KFMs because its not easy class and its easy to say which KFM is a bot or not unlike in summoner case where cat still tracks you in stealth while you dont have any kind of debuff. 

 

So yea summs are broken, oh and you pointed some things that are broken while defending them that means you know shit how balance should be especially if that was aimed on Esport at first. 

 

And last but not least there is a reason why there are many topics. Once again KR servers run much longer and the balance changes are recent so most of ppl there have hm skills or high end gear that we dont have, and most ppl runs atleast in hm 10 or more so yea wanna argue more how KR is different from other server :)?

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10 minutes ago, houki111 said:

Yea i was againts gold summoner yesterday, dmg was small but what made me lose? Resist for 10 sec and low cd, his flower is hard to see if cat is around because cat will cover the model, and cat does cc and dmg + summoner has its own CC (which should not even happend in *cricket*in game like that). Its difficult to aim at summoner becasue we dont have lock target mechanic (other action mmos do, strange isnt it?) . IF you dont attack cat, cat gonna *cricket* you while summoner can run and run. They have broken heal now more than any class which should be happening. And you compare KR to our server WHERE we should HAVE different gameplay system (ofc not much of difference but at least noticeable one) and i bet summs are at top there. 

 

You throw BMS and KFMs, i can agree with BMs cuz i met the flame build one and he killed me like in one stun but KFMs combo was here for all the time but lemme tell you this the KFMs COMBO is not that easy AND you dont see many KFMs because its not easy class and its easy to say which KFM is a bot or not unlike in summoner case where cat still tracks you in stealth while you dont have any kind of debuff. 

 

So yea summs are broken, oh and you pointed some things that are broken while defending them that means you know shit how balance should be especially if that was aimed on Esport at first. 

 

And last but not least there is a reason why there are many topics. Once again KR servers run much longer and the balance changes are recent so most of ppl there have hm skills or high end gear that we dont have, and most ppl runs atleast in hm 10 or more so yea wanna argue more how KR is different from other server :)?

And this already tells me the problem isnt the summoner but the way you play....

 

1st - summoner has only a resist that lasts 5 seconds. That resists end when the 5 second are up or when the summoner gets hit 3 times (the resist only works for 3 hits) and not 10 seconds as you state.

 

2nd - Cat does nearly no damage at all, its only used as CC.

 

3rd - You should never, ever go for the cat when you fight a summoner, during the time you try to kill the cat the summoner will just 100 - 0 you and you waste time.

 

4th - Summoner heal only heals 10% HP every 30 seconds nothing more.

 

5th - We have exactly the same skills and balance patch the korean version has (well now they got a new which we will get soon anyway) so its not a different gameplay. And summoners are nowhere near top on KR servers in pvp.

 

Also, you know why there are so many topics? Because people just expect to go in arena or a battleground, press a few buttons and win, and thats not how it works.

If you want to try and bruteforce win against a summoner i guarantee you you will always loose. And then you see dozens of topics which basically come down to "i cant beat this class in pvp, its too op, nerf nerf nerf".

truth be told most players in this community are spoiled and expect everything to rain down from heaven on them  without the least bit of effort.

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4 hours ago, Grimoir said:

And this already tells me the problem isnt the summoner but the way you play....

 

1st - summoner has only a resist that lasts 5 seconds. That resists end when the 5 second are up or when the summoner gets hit 3 times (the resist only works for 3 hits) and not 10 seconds as you state.

 

2nd - Cat does nearly no damage at all, its only used as CC.

 

3rd - You should never, ever go for the cat when you fight a summoner, during the time you try to kill the cat the summoner will just 100 - 0 you and you waste time.

 

4th - Summoner heal only heals 10% HP every 30 seconds nothing more.

 

5th - We have exactly the same skills and balance patch the korean version has (well now they got a new which we will get soon anyway) so its not a different gameplay. And summoners are nowhere near top on KR servers in pvp.

 

Also, you know why there are so many topics? Because people just expect to go in arena or a battleground, press a few buttons and win, and thats not how it works.

If you want to try and bruteforce win against a summoner i guarantee you you will always loose. And then you see dozens of topics which basically come down to "i cant beat this class in pvp, its too op, nerf nerf nerf".

truth be told most players in this community are spoiled and expect everything to rain down from heaven on them  without the least bit of effort.

Cat deals dmg imao i died to cat while chasing summ to stun or cc or dmg him.

 

You say that resist only works on 3 hits? So explain me why i got resist on 6 hits while that skill was on summ :)?

 

Summs have hide after counter that has like maybe 3 or 4 seconds duration and cat does a lot of things in that time while summoner is safe .

 

They didint repair the grounded bug for 100% more like 33% because i can only tab from it and if i dont i am get screw over and summoner can spam that shit (and most use cheats for that too lets not forget that ncfail does not care about issue with cheats, exploits and bots).

 

Summoner can unhide the sin with some kind of debuff but we cant unhide him.

 

heals for more than 10% (somebody didint see the changes i fear).

 

if you want dps summ and cat will come in your way guess what happens? Plus summ can change its position to cats position and vice versa just like wl has..

 

and counter flower that makes summms hide is low cd while sin has decoy and even that he gets behind enemy not runs away where he wants aka he can be out played by simply presing aoe or attack from your back to reveal him and summ just gets resist and can run away.

 

And we can go on and on because you blindly see that summoners are balanced when truth is they arent.

 

Also KR servers can have mini updates that changes values and such for Esport purpose that we can simply have no access too because you forget that this game is KR one and devs are from KR and our publisher needs approval to make changes (but how they can make while they are behind? )

 

I told you that if you wanna argue more than more you will drown yourself in your blind perspective of summoners that is not true :D

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If you are chasing a summoner to cc him and die from the cat you really shouldnt pvp, really. Cat hits for like around 200 dmg and in most cases we need to be facing you to command the cat to charge at you.

 

Yes, the true friend resist only works on 3 hits, if the summoner doesnt get hit 3 times the resist ends after 5 seconds and has 45 seconds cooldown.

The other option is to spec it for a HP shield and HP regen, but summoner can be CC'ed during it and doesnt resist any damage.

 

Summoner has a counter, like every other class, its easy to see most of the times and avoid triggering it, assasin has decoy true, but if you hit it it stuns you, so even if they get behind you you cant do anything since you are stunned.

 

There is nothing wrong with the cat pin. Only 1 escape should work on it and thats your tab, other escapes do not save from pin.

 

Summoner can use Doom and Bloom on a sin to get it out of stealth, but it can be iframed which a lot of sins do so its not that usefull.

 

The summoner heal heals the summoner for 10% only, it heals other party members for 60% but summoner only gets 10% hp back (you should really read the notes :) )

 

Summoner can only swap positions with the cat when the summoner is knocked down, and even then if you keep hitting the summoner the swap will not work.

 

Summoners counter is on a 6 seconds cooldown, almost the same as the assasins counter.

 

Cause summoners are balanced now. 80% of players have no problems winning against summoners because they know how to, its the 20% which always complains.

And KR does not have any mini updates since all versions run practically on the same skill patches.

My perspective isnt blind, if i can beat most summoners on my level 50 HM4 assasin in arena and you as a HM10 (i  assume you are) can't ...where do you think the issue is? Summoners being too op or you lacking the skill to beat them? food for thought. I am actually giving you proper explanations and arguments.

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24 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

[...]

80% of players have no problems winning against summoners

[...]

From where are those stats? Any source? XD Go back on earth. If 80% of players have no problems winning against summoners why rankings looks like they looks.

 

And maybe You can answer my earlier post, since you ignored it and buried by WOT. 

 

Quote

You always will be defending your own class, cause you don't want devs to nerf it. But summoner is op and this is a fact. U need very simple math and basic theory of probability. Just look at the rankings 1vs1 and Infinity Tower, the two reliabe ones. Look at the larger group, for example 1-300 ranks (more ranks = more accuracte). Summoners are dominating. You can't just say all sumoners are playing so good, so they mastered their class (plus better gear on IT), and every other class are lame and undergeared.

People can QQ, and they are subjective. Math isn't. 

 

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Please nerf KFMs and Destros and SFs. I lost to them few times in arena as summoner. They too overpowered. I pvp only 10 times on my characters but these classes need nerf because cannot beat and there are 3 destros in top 10 1vs1 ranking.

 

1vs1 is pretty much showing the skill play of the players. There are in EU atm equal amount of destros and summoners in top 10 so just because 1-2 classes have more than 1 char in top 10 doesn't mean it's too overpowered. May people who complain summoners are too overpowered base their arguments on their own experience. In my ironic "complaint" you can see that I based the nerf requirements on my own flaws and inexperience in pvp. How many hours do you think the summoners and other classes at top 10 or even in top 50 spent in pvp?

 

3vs3: It's all about the team. Hell I have gotten wrecked 100-0 by KFM and Destro by getting full stun combo in 5 seconds (yes I got wrecked in 5 seconds from 100 % to 0) while sometimes I did 1vs3 on my summy. I am super inexperienced in pvp so the loss I blame on myself while the win I would say the other players were worse than me (or the fact they were 2 BD and 1 FM which both I had played ALOT so I knew them).

 

6vs6: Summoners are easy in teamplay, people don't know properly how to counter them nor how their skills work because most of the time no one wants to try out summoners as they disgust them (lyn or just the fact it's a scummoner). Also there is alot of abusing so the top 50 is complete utter lying BS.

 

Infinity tower: What can I say. Summoner npcs in Tower are like summoners on crack buffed to 100 times (especially when you get above floor 30) but yet again summoners are easy to play in pve (even when this is partial pvp as the NPCs aren't so stupid to focus on cat's taunt) so they can advance higher. People play them since they are easy for solo and party plays and they don't even really require any HM skills to be decend in pvp and pve.

 

I though understand the frustration as I have rarely beaten summoner as a BD or any other class and also I get sometimes my bum whooped by another summoner while I play my summoner but they are definitely not that overpowered in pvp as many people assume. For most of the people the game is still new and pvping a summoner is not a brainless key smashing spree but actual tactical and well thought match.

 

@Grimoir @houki111 Summoners can resist with True Friend for 5 seconds or for 5 hits, not 3. This means that if you do 5 hits in 1 second the resist wears off. If not then it'll last for 5 seconds and the CD for that is actually 45 seconds and it heals only 5 %. Another skills to heal is the new Huzzah that recovers 10 % every 30 seconds. Doom n Bloom still recovers HP but only 50 % of the damage. There is one more skill that can heal but usually it's bad one to use in pvp as it removes the only cc of summies that they can do without the cat. Petal storm lasts for 10 seconds and heals 2 % for every resists so if you are ranged never ever hit summoner when they have petal storm up.

 

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18 minutes ago, Southwind said:

From where are those stats? Any source? XD Go back on earth. If 80% of players have no problems winning against summoners why rankings looks like they looks.

 

And maybe You can answer my earlier post, since you ignored it and buried by WOT. 

 

 

Weirdly i did not see your reply till just now o.o

 

Anyway i do not defend the class, what i do voice tho is the fact that everyone is basing this upon rankings.

6v6 is pure exploiting in the top ranks, that has less than 0 coverage in actual skill.

 

3v3 is team based you can get carried bronze to platinum if you have at least 2 good players in the team, so that ranking is also nothing to rely upon.

 

1v1 like Lunakitty stated is a good place to get an idea but, the fact that summoners are in top ranks just means other players they play against dont know how to counter them properly. If summoners were really as op as everyone says the entire ranking from 1 to 300 would be summoners only.

 

summoner can be so easily outplayed you would be suprised, but you cant just bluntly go at them because then you will loose every single time. if you outplay them, bait them out, and then strike you have a 80-90% chance of winning if the summoner is just decent. Against a really really good summoner you will have a much harder time.

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Stop defending summoner just because it's your class! Of course you don't want a nerf, but at least shut up! You guys started making things up just to try to justify the fact that summoner is a broken class but NOBODY will swallow it, never. You don't even need such a technique to beat other classes as summoner, you just have to send your cat and spam your skills. Is this fair? Every class hate another class for some reason, and this is normal... But all the classes hate summoners. I wonder why...

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This topic is retardly stupid as well as a lot of these responses. I find it interesting how when this balance patch was announced everyone was all "oh summs got hit with the nerf bat hard they gonna suck now they gonna require skill now blah blah blah."  Yet here we are...still being told summoners are op. Just like people are saying in the bm thread about them being too op, learn how to play and you'll be fine.

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Just now, Juh said:

Learn how to play? Why this can't be applied to summoners? Oh yes, that's right! Because they don't need to know how to play because they are a broken class! Really, stop trying to make things up just because this is your class and you got used to play easily, without any difficult... You don't see any other class defending summoner. Why this? Because all don't know how to play? People DO know how to play. The thing is that when you are playing against a summoner you need alot of tactics when the summoner just spams his skills and that's how they win. 

I stopped reading after your first sentence. If they are in top 5 or whatever ranking they are, i'm pretty sure they know how to play their class. Once again, either get better or go play something more your speed.

 

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1 minute ago, Narukoi said:

This topic is retardly stupid as well as a lot of these responses. I find it interesting how when this balance patch was announced everyone was all "oh summs got hit with the nerf bat hard they gonna suck now they gonna require skill now blah blah blah."  Yet here we are...still being told summoners are op. Just like people are saying in the bm thread about them being too op, learn how to play and you'll be fine.

Learn how to play? Why this can't be applied to summoners? Oh yes, that's right! Because they don't need to know how to play because they are a broken class! Really, stop trying to make things up just because this is your class and you got used to play easily, without any difficult... You don't see any other class defending summoner. Why this? Because all don't know how to play? People DO know how to play. The thing is that when you are playing against a summoner you need alot of tactics when the summoner just spams his skills and that's how they win. 

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6 minutes ago, Narukoi said:

I stopped reading after your first sentence. If they are in top 5 or whatever ranking they are, i'm pretty sure they know how to play their class. Once again, either get better or go play something more your speed.

 

Yeah hahaha We will see if they all know how to play the day that summoners get a huge nerf, and you babies will cry so much because it's not fair when you have to use your brain to beat someone, right? It was so much easier before arghhh hahahaha Let's see

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1 minute ago, Juh said:

Yeah hahaha We will see if they all know how to play the day that summoners get a huge nerf, and you babies will cry so much because it's not fair when you have to use your brain to beat someone, right? It was so much easier before arghhh hahahaha Let's see

(stopped after first sentence again)  As I stated, we were all told that THIS balance patch was the big nerf to summs, with the increased cooldown or pounce, the reduced pounce duration, the damage reduction to sunflower/super sunflower/bees. The chi cost now being added to super sunflower. The bleed effect being removed from our cat, the hp reduction on doom n bloom, briar patch now generating hate, and i think thats the last of the changes im not sure. Even with all of that, yall still want more changes done to us? good lord how bad are you people?

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I think what they can do in regards to the targeting problem is at least change the color of the cat's name because if the names of both the summoner and the cat are red and they both happen to be of the same size and both have gangplank hair, I'd have to admit it can cause some messy targeting on the part of the one attacking especially if the summoner and cat look like they are sharing the same space....... even more so for characters who sometimes stand at a further range and it becomes a little bit harder to see and even target properly. It also gives other classes and possibly other summoner players(although I know it doesn't quite matter to summoners since their PVP skills are mostly AoE) an extra non-pvp-skilled-related hurdle to play against. It's a bit ridiculous. The time you spend trying to get the right target could mean the difference to pinning the summoner now or giving them some grace period for them to get back up and get you back.

 

About the cat's HP, I will have to agree how hilarious it is that it has so much HP. In some cases, if not most, more than the summoner itself. It's too easy to manage a cat in a fight and the benefits of having it in a fight far outweighs any challenge it is to manage it's HP or keeping it alive. Many summoners I see don't even care about it after sending it into a boss fight. It's something a bit too gracious imo.

 

Targeting and cat HP are the only issues I have with the class. Everything else is fine. I think as a force master, we're the class with the least troubles going up against summoners. Although even I have to admit it's kind of hair-pulling frustrating to face off against multiple summoners in the same base in a whirlwind valley match. 

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36 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

[...]

Anyway i do not defend the class, what i do voice tho is the fact that everyone is basing this upon rankings.

6v6 is pure exploiting in the top ranks, that has less than 0 coverage in actual skill.

3v3 is team based you can get carried bronze to platinum if you have at least 2 good players in the team, so that ranking is also nothing to rely upon.

1v1 like Lunakitty stated is a good place to get an idea but, the fact that summoners are in top ranks just means other players they play against dont know how to counter them properly. If summoners were really as op as everyone says the entire ranking from 1 to 300 would be summoners only.

summoner can be so easily outplayed you would be suprised, but you cant just bluntly go at them because then you will loose every single time. if you outplay them, bait them out, and then strike you have a 80-90% chance of winning if the summoner is just decent. Against a really really good summoner you will have a much harder time.

First don't mention again 6vs6 and 3vs3, as i didn't mention them, i said reliable ones are 1vs1 and Infinity Tower.

 

So we get back to theory of probability. The knowledge about other classes, and so the pvp skills will be always heading to be equal as we will consider higher amount of players among all classes. More players we consider, more equal percentage we will get. As a conclusion, You can say there is a chance that among 30 players the summoners are the ones more skilled, and others don't know how to fight them, but when we are talking about all players listed in ranking, it is simply mathematically impossible. I am not saying there is no chance of beating a summoner, there is, but it's a lot easier to win as a summoner, numbers don't lie. Please build your argumentation on facts&numbers, not on a personal feelings : )

 

In Infinity Tower opponents are equal to everybody, just compare floors summoners reached, and for example Force Masters. As i said, You can't say it's because all summoners are skilled, and all force masters don't know how to play. It is lack of balance in pvp content.

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