The Op Summ in PvP

[QRob]

6 hours ago, Yochewy said:

Summoners are worst in 6v6 imo. The heal, endless knockdown, and stupid grabs are too much to deal with. If they have crit def, you'll spend days killing them...DAYS! You better freaking pray you dont go against three of them at the same time. 

you should be more precize, and say "Summoners are the worst TO BE AGAINST in 6v6 imo."
Cuz i'd guess u'd be just happy if you got some of those summmoners that u described in your party.:)

[QRob]

5 hours ago, Grimoir said:

I do. Gold ranked.  Had several 3v3 matches where it wasnt even needed to tag in cause 1 player basically killed all 3 oponents.

let me also add

 we are on nearly the same balance patch as kr and long and behold kr has no issues fighting summoners but na players do....

says a lot doesnt it ?

yall keep crying bout summoners but if you ask the actually good pvp players they will tell you they have no issues beating summoners.

I think Grimoir got the point.
Summoners are nowhere in korea... ever!
All these ppl who yelling about sums are actually bad players. it's funny to see people wanna change another class just because they are bad as hell. really funny :D
thankfully not these ppl decide what's gonna happen, a change cannot be based on their opinion, cuz they don't give a clear picture. korea does.
that's why the top na/eu players here would sturgle to even get to 1600 point in korea, and NOT bcause of the ping. :)

[Grimoir]

37 minutes ago, Southwind said:

First don't mention again 6vs6 and 3vs3, as i didn't mention them, i said reliable ones are 1vs1 and Infinity Tower.

 

So we get back to theory of probability. The knowledge about other classes, and so the pvp skills will be always heading to be equal as we will consider higher amount of players among all classes. More players we consider, more equal percentage we will get. As a conclusion, You can say there is a chance that among 30 players the summoners are the ones more skilled, and others don't know how to fight them, but when we are talking about all players listed in ranking, it is simply mathematically impossible. I am not saying there is no chance of beating a summoner, there is, but it's a lot easier to win as a summoner, numbers don't lie. Please build your argumentation on facts&numbers, not on a personal feelings : )

 

In Infinity Tower opponents are equal to everybody, just compare floors summoners reached, and for example Force Masters. As i said, You can't say it's because all summoners are skilled, and all force masters don't know how to play. It is lack of balance in pvp content.

I am not basing this on Tower of Infinity as there it actually depends more on luck on which opponent you get. One time i got warlock 4 times in a row which ofc is super easy as compared to other classes. So lets just stick with 1v1 as example.

 

so this isnt a feeling but its actually how it is. When i see how many players i kill in 1v1 because they try to kill my cat, i crouch it, they keep on hitting it so i 100 -0 them easily. Its a fact. Summoner may be an easier class to play but it has a higher difficulty grade to beat one in pvp. that doesnt mean they are overpowered that just means they are easier to utilize their kit for offense and defense. 

the issue here is players have set rotation that they learned / practiced which easily makes them predictable. Example? So far every single destroyer i fought in arena always starts off with the same move which i easily counter on the start and hit them back which lets me bring a good portion of their HP down.

I can see / predict when to stop hitting a KFM to make sure he doesnt get his buff, and to lure his evades / escaped untill i can pounce on him and again bring down his HP. Here they are people complaining how summoner has CC's but they shouldnt, summoner only has 1 daze/kd (depends on spec) and roots, and thats it, all other CC's are with the cat, where kd/daze easily can be avoided, the only one which does work in most cases is the stun which has 40s cooldown.

 

With that being said, lets speculate the following:

I am battling a BM.  He uses HM pull, i backstep out of it, he tries to pull me i use counter. He stuns me i stun him back, he uses the shield for ranged attacks, i stop hitting him and run till it dissapears, i kd him, he uses escape, i daze him he uses escape, then i pounce and get a few hits off.

 

Is that me being overpowered or just knowing what to do in which situation?

Dont go on saying something is op because lack of skill to counter / think ahead and predict moves. If you are in melee range to the summoner you already know he will use beckon to kd / knockback to escape.

Ofc its easy to complain about something rather than work on getting better yourself.

 

 

also about targeting....

 

If you check under options there is a little checkbox that says "Prioritize debuffed targets"...try turning it off...

 

[Minity SN]

scummoners should be deleted together with BDs.... these classes are just toxic to pvp with....

[Southwind]

4 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

I am not basing this on Tower of Infinity as there it actually depends more on luck on which opponent you get. One time i got warlock 4 times in a row which ofc is super easy as compared to other classes. So lets just stick with 1v1 as example.

But in one season You can have more than 100 runs, and rank is about one best run, so it is not possible summoners rolls good opponents from RNG twice more often than others. So IT IS good example of how easy You can win as a certain class, cause opponents skills are always the same, they are bots.

4 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Summoner may be an easier class to play but it has a higher difficulty grade to beat one in pvp. that doesnt mean they are overpowered that just means they are easier to utilize their kit for offense and defense

Well, that is exactly what overpowered is. When we have equal gear, stats, ping, reaction time, skills, knowledge about all classes, then that slightly difference ruins the balance : )

[RainbowDashie]

15 minutes ago, Southwind said:

 

Well, that is exactly what overpowered is. When we have equal gear, stats, ping, reaction time, skills, knowledge about all classes, then that slightly difference ruins the balance : )

if summoner would be overpowerd, why it was so out of tournament in kr? and at the last tournament in kr there was 1 sum in top 16. and he didnt climb up. So which Class is broken?

[Grimoir]

13 minutes ago, Southwind said:

Well, that is exactly what overpowered is. When we have equal gear, stats, ping, reaction time, skills, knowledge about all classes, then that slightly difference ruins the balance : )

Actually it is not. Again...if a BM / KFM for example blows all their escapes on useless stuff... and dies...is that the summoner being overpowered or the oponent just being bad at playing his class / fighting summoners?

 

Sadly this is how pvp works in blade and soul:

 

1. If i am better than you, you're a noob

2. If you are better than me you have no life

3. If everyone is better than me, nerf summoners

[Southwind]

1 minute ago, Grimoir said:

Actually it is not. Again...if a BM / KFM for example blows all their escapes on useless stuff... and dies...is that the summoner being overpowered or the oponent just being bad at playing his class / fighting summoners?

Man, this is one situation you talking about, think wider, overall. You can't base such statment on your personal experience or one stiuation from pvp match. Only overall statistics matters, and those statistics, result of all pvp, not only yours, are shown in ranking. It is only source of true facts, not personal feelings. When one class significantly starting to dominate the rankings it means balance need to be fixed.

 

This isn't hard to understand, it's only hard to agree with for ppl who play summoners, and want to stay on top, noobody wants a nerf.

[Grimoir]

11 minutes ago, Southwind said:

Man, this is one situation you talking about, think wider, overall. You can't base such statment on your personal experience or one stiuation from pvp match. Only overall statistics matters, and those statistics, result of all pvp, not only yours, are shown in ranking. It is only source of true facts, not personal feelings. When one class significantly starting to dominate the rankings it means balance need to be fixed.

 

This isn't hard to understand, it's only hard to agree with for ppl who play summoners, and want to stay on top, noobody wants a nerf.

Again...let me word it differently....

 

If class X wastes their escapes, incorrectly utilizes their kit, falls into the summoners baits and not knowing what and when to avoid and dies.....is that:

 

A) Summoner being overpowered

B) Opponent being bad in PVP

C) Opponent not knowing how to counter a summoner

D) Opponent trying to brute-force a win and failing

E) answers B, C, D

[QRob]

12 minutes ago, Southwind said:

When one class significantly starting to dominate the rankings it means balance need to be fixed.

 

You know nothing, Southwind.
It doesn't mean that blance fix needed, it means that eu and na lack of good players (with other classes)
I can say it again, take korea as the picture, cuz what's there that shows the things clearly. you cannot base you opinion on a dying game like eu and na bns, which don't have as much (and as good) players as korea do.

[DeadlyCode]

Summoner is op, just look at tower of infinity and how much easier it is to do with a summoner.

[Southwind]

Well Grimoir, now i see You don't even read what i wrote to You. I just repeat, single pvp situation doesn't matter.

You can't make overall conclusions when you not consider all data available. Simple sience, not quantum physics.

 

QRob, why the hell i should worry about KR, when it's highly different in so many cases than server where i play? Doesn't make sense. 

[QRob]

5 minutes ago, Southwind said:

QRob, why the hell i should worry about KR, when it's highly different in so many cases than server where i play? Doesn't make sense.

cuz we r talking about the same game, but 2 different playerbase. if one playerbase can do it, then the other one should be able to do it as well. if they are not able to do it, then it shows that the other playerbase is far behind the playerbase that actually can do it.
meaning: if korean players can beat summoners ez, then eu/na players should be able to do so, but if eu/na players can't, it means eu/na players r just simply bad.
you can't argue with this.
this is one game. balancing is not made by region.
thank you.

[Grimoir]

5 minutes ago, Southwind said:

Well Grimoir, now i see You don't even read what i wrote to You. I just repeat, single pvp situation doesn't matter.

You can't make overall conclusions when you not consider all data available. Simple sience, not quantum physics.

 

QRob, why the hell i should worry about KR, when it's highly different in so many cases than server where i play? Doesn't make sense. 

The way i see it you just dont seems to grasp the fact that it all depends on your playstyle.

Data available says summoners are in top ranks, that does not mean the class is overpowered that just means that all the oponents those summoners were fighting are shitty PVP'ers, who fall into baits, fail to counter, and dont utilize their kit.

[Southwind]

9 minutes ago, QRob said:

cuz we r talking about the same game

Lol, we're not XD You know EU/NA version is far behind KR one, including balance fixes? :D

Plus we get new content faster so we have less time to adapt to it. So don't make such jokes that those are same games :

12 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Data available says summoners are in top ranks, that does not mean the class is overpowered that just means that all the oponents those summoners were fighting are shitty PVP'ers, who fall into baits, fail to counter, and dont utilize their kit.

TOP LOL, i will printscreen this <3

[QRob]

5 minutes ago, Southwind said:

Lol, we're not XD You know EU/NA version is far behind KR one, including balance fixes? :D

Plus we get new content faster so we have less time to adapt to it. So don't make such jokes that those are same games :

add1, who talkes and cares about the pve part?
add2, they aren't so much ahead with the skill patches.
look, let a korean bring his keyboard and sit him to play on eu or na. he would go top without losing any match. that's the difference. u r talking about minor skillchanges that we didn't get yet, and don't make so much difference in pvp.
I'm done arguing with you, cuz u clearly don't know sheeeeet. thx

[Grimoir]

24 minutes ago, Southwind said:

Lol, we're not XD You know EU/NA version is far behind KR one, including balance fixes? :D

Plus we get new content faster so we have less time to adapt to it. So don't make such jokes that those are same games :

TOP LOL, i will printscreen this <3

Korea actually is 1 minor skill balance patch ahead of us. With desolate tomb we got the bigger patch where KR got a small one right after.

The point is still the same, balance is made the same in the game and not per region, no other version have summoners even close to the higher ranks, only NA does so that says something about player PVP skill doesnt it?

 

Here is all explained better than i can:

[Southwind]

24 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

no other version have summoners even close to the higher ranks

Lol again, in KR version, you are both so much talking about, summoner is second in 1vs1 ranking atm.

But it is for sure because KR noobs can't play angainst summoners, oh wait... did't it just ruins your argumentation? Sorry : (

[Morgwais]

The fact that most of the top tournament players respect themselves enough to not play with their summoners never crossed your mind , did it ? 

[N3ro]

7 hours ago, Grimoir said:

And another topic....

 

6v6 ranking is useless since ppl exploit the living hell out of it.

 

3v3 is easy to rank up in if you are good and have a premade team

 

1v1 - has it ever occured to you the players are actually good at their class ?

Lmao... all those 'good teams' in 3v3 that are diamond are without a single exception wintraders, period. The actual good teams make it to mid plat right now, but not to diamond.

6v6 is also full of people who somehow abuse some bug that lets them gain rating, that you got right i guess. I honestly don´t even care about it it´s a joke bg anyway. The only reason i´m ever even entering is because the rewards right now are really good, because of the event. When this event is over i´ll probably never touch it again.

 

I think in 3v3 summs are DEFFINITELY op, but in 1v1 it´s somewhat questionable. Although in a 'tournament setting' they again get buffed basically, because you can not time them out when you´re fighting 1v1 in 3v3s. Witch is also why i´m currently playing against summs with blue buff and poison breath lol. You just CANNOT kill them with normal flower unless you outskill them so much that nothing even matters. The guy before who posted that screen with 90:70k damage, i´ve had games where i won with 110k damage and the summ AND the cat where both at flat 100%. Without blue buff you just CANNOT end the match.

[arthur500]

3 hours ago, QRob said:

You know nothing, Southwind.
It doesn't mean that blance fix needed, it means that eu and na lack of good players (with other classes)
I can say it again, take korea as the picture, cuz what's there that shows the things clearly. you cannot base you opinion on a dying game like eu and na bns, which don't have as much (and as good) players as korea do.

SO you are saying that everyone how plays summoners in pvp is the best player and the other players that plays other class are garbage in pvp?

[Whiteflashkevin]

im a warlock and was trying to kill a summoner who left the cat to die and despite my best efforts i could kill the *cricket* after 2 min of struggle. stun-escape hit-invisibility, combo resist. what the *cricket* is with this class cooldowns. does it ever run out. was that *cricket* a bot.

[Grimoir]

33 minutes ago, arthur500 said:

SO you are saying that everyone how plays summoners in pvp is the best player and the other players that plays other class are garbage in pvp?

Please...there are plenty of trash summoners out there who die so easy its funny.

Only the actually skilled and good ones make it to the high ranks.

 

But here is a suggestion:

 

If you all say the class is so OP, then technically if  YOU make a summoner you should be able to get to the top ranks yourself right?

How about one of you that complain does this and then lets see if you make it even past silver rank :)

[Samyaza]

Summoners OP cuz Ryuki only 1939 rating Kappa. Listen quite a few good players don't even bother with diamond or are dertanking quite often on purpose. I main summoner and can tell you how many issues we have with other class when our opponent uses brain. I call Sins OP cuz I have Sin alt and have no problems with summoners. Also if anything summoners have the least amount of burst of all classes and no you can't 100-0 someone in one single pin.

[Grimstar]

I'm playing a fm, got gold rank in 1vs1, tag and bg, and i gotta admit i have alot of trouble with summoners, ESPECIALLY in toi. Problem is, u can make a mistake against all other classes and still win the match, but make 1 mistake against a summ and they punish u badly.

 

I'm talking about toi now, some of it also applies to pvp:

- I cant air combo them, since they cc me with pet the moment i launch a summ

- I cant sleep the cat, since they call them back the moment i wanna zzz them, or the summ just simply goes stand on the cat.

- Keeping a summ stunlocked is hard, since the cat cc's u all the time

- Cant kill the cat, since he has TO much hp (cant in toi, can kill in pvp)

- Gotta keep grabbing them out of petals, cause of the short cd (i dont even wanna know how long that cd is, should be ALOT longer)

 

Some classes are also hard for me, like a destroyer. Or some classes simply stall time, like a sin/sf. But a summ takes the crown, either i run out of time or i win. Once i see a summ in toi, i know i aint gonna reach a record floor. Fm's have the hardest time in toi, since the highest fm reached f51, while the highest summ reached f66 (only 5 fm's reached f50+, while the whole top 50 summ reached f55+)

 

In PvP i dont really think they are OP, but i gotta admit they have it ez mode. They can constantly keep pressure on an opponent, have cc's, have short cd on almost everything, have heals, and they have cat. To make it worse, once they pin u down (wasting tab), ure death with their super "hard" combo (sunflower spam). While i, as a fm, gotta do alot of effort/have good ping, to get a decent combo going (ex. double air launch). 

A fm is gonna get nerfed (our heals, divine veil 1% resist / frost armor 10%) atm, while a summ heals more then us (petals 2% resist, seed shroud 8s cd) GG NCsoft