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Balance Whirlwind please.


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1. Teams are not balanced at all. I have fought against 4-5 summoners or assassins on the opposing side. Simple solution is try to find 1 of each kind and if not available 2 maximum per class. This is a battleground supposedly working on teamwork and having too many of certain classes defeats that purpose and make winning impossible against them.

 

2. Attack power is not even close. With the 2 que system you can put 2 top players with 700 plus and match them against 550 players on the other team. Sure the rest of the team was only 550 but those guys can solo defend and just wipe an entire team with their defense and offensive power. If your system can find the max attack power that each person has every equipped and match them accordingly then it will be good. Otherwise you have guys putting on low weapons just to get easier matches etc.

 

3. Perma stealth assassins are a bit too much when it comes to capping points. They even cap in stealth. I have seen 3-4 people trying to cap a point with only 1 assassin just popping in and out of stealth. Not sure if this is something that can be changed or maybe not allow to cap in stealth or something. After this patch they are even harder to see for many. 

 

4. Make this about skill and not about gear by balancing the teams better. Put some effort into that instead of just putting band aids on broken things. I want this game to do well for a long time but after leaving already for 3 months and returning for pvp I am dissapointed again. I don't want to see players not able to use their gear but some things maybe shouldn't be allowed. Right now you can use all buffs, Legendary pets when they come etc and it really makes 1 700+ player able to run the show by himself with some classes. Destroyers can take you down in seconds with aoe..

 

5. Players are doing this more now since you gave some incentive but if they are doing it as a chore instead of as real good fun then it will eventually die off and people will get frustrated and stop. This you can already see by the sheer number of players leaving matches. They come into a match and its against guys with 100 more ap and they get wiped in 10 seconds so they leave. No reason to stay when there is no incentive or balance. 

 

6. The rating system. This could be better as well and instead of voting for players who are top you can find a way to determine this in the sytem and automatically reward that player. It is being abused now and teams are just giving it to every one on the team. I don't mind us all winning but it doesn't always work of course. The current system just means that the higher your gear the higher your rating. You won't stand a chance as a 550 against a 700 team so you will stay gold until you go do more pve and get the gear. Just balance teams and this will be a bit easier to cope with. 

 

 

This isn't arena. You can't expect to balance it the same way as arena as you have builds that you can switch to for each class. In this 6v6 you need to consider this and make sure teams are equal or close to equal in other areas. I don't mind losing but when I know we lose over imbalance and a poor matchmaking system it really gets to me. I love you guys please take this serious. 

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1. Teams are not balanced at all. I have fought against 4-5 summoners or assassins on the opposing side. Simple solution is try to find 1 of each kind and if not available 2 maximum per class. This is

Well...all I can say is that with Raven gears, you will have alot easier time in battleground because you can hit insane damage by ignoring other people critical defense. For a BM with raven stage 6 w

6v6 is actually very fun, but it doesn't need to be balanced with equal gear if that is what you are getting out.  This equalize thread has been beaten like a dead horse over and over. It wont happen

1. Team composition is a problem but if you ever tried queuing for a dungeon with "no duplicate classes" ticked you'll know it takes really long to get a party. During the event everyone does WWV and so you'll get a team in no time but after that it will mess up queues.

 

2. While AP is one factor to consider, for me it would mean being matched with ppl who have about 50 AP more than I have (my PvP gear has much lower AP than my PvE gear). Good defensive gear makes it possible to fight 1 on 2 preventing the enemy from capturing and binding them on one spot. Actually solo defending is much easier if you are overgeared defensively than with 100+ more AP.

 

3. Stealth capturing wouldn't be so bad if assasins did not have that insane evasion as well. I agree with you that something should be done. But I'm not sure what would be a good solution.

 

4. Gear can replace skill if it's much higher than the enemie's. But on average it's still a game of skill and tactics. I won lots of games against overgeared teams which were just stupid or unskilled. Stalling 3-4 enemies as a medium geared FM because the enemy does not realize that it would be better to let one of them capture during the fight or send 2 away to help somewhere else...

 

5. Players leave matches because they THINK they can not win so they don't loose ELO. Once we had one player leaving while both teams were still below 500 points because he thought we will loose. We actually lost only by about 60 points in the end and probably would have won if our team had been full.

 

6. No automatic system can actually decide which player did good work. If you go for automatic rewards, player gear will be one of the most deciding factors for getting a reward. Giving everyone that vote is actually nice because it means "good job team". If someone actually stands out with his teamplay or stalling he often will get more votes. Also it's only 100 BP and some extra Exp divided between all MVPs.

For ELO higher gear helps rising ranks but currently many players rise by leaving any loosing game which unbalances the matches even more.

 

Matchmaking by gear is extemely hard. Which stats would you base it on?

A character with maxed weapon (for pve) but crap accessories and soulshield will just loose to other similar AP chars unless he is much better at PvP. On the other hand someone with challenger/sparring soulshield, maxed accessories and/or more defensive accessories and a pet but 450 AP might be able to defend solo if the enemy also has 450 AP.

I'm using General Necklace from Misty Woods. How do you account for Mastery? What about defense, crit def, piercing or even evasion?

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6v6 is actually very fun, but it doesn't need to be balanced with equal gear if that is what you are getting out.  This equalize thread has been beaten like a dead horse over and over. It wont happen really. Not unless KR randomly decides to do it

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48 minutes ago, Kuronee said:

6v6 is actually very fun, but it doesn't need to be balanced with equal gear if that is what you are getting out.  This equalize thread has been beaten like a dead horse over and over. It wont happen really. Not unless KR randomly decides to do it

It is fun and it comes from someone that hates to do pvp in every form of it.I dont get why we need to wait for kr to change things.This is west,entirely different culture.

 

Just becouse they want to roflstomp and zerg in kr doesnt mean we wanna have it here,i done so many matches on 3 of my noob toons atm every single day and all games were unbalanced,only 3-4 were somehow balanced in terms of points both teams had.

 

Easiest fix is to make ladders of ap,500-550,550-600,etc,u get the idea.Babbletron never answered my tweet on that,i guess he didnt like me that i raged at him,he just answer ppl asking about outfits and Premium dash :P

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8 minutes ago, Katsapliakos said:

It is fun and it comes from someone that hates to do pvp in every form of it.I dont get why we need to wait for kr to change things.This is west,entirely different culture.

 

Just becouse they want to roflstomp and zerg in kr doesnt mean we wanna have it here,i done so many matches on 3 of my noob toons atm every single day and all games were unbalanced,only 3-4 were somehow balanced in terms of points both teams had.

 

Easiest fix is to make ladders of ap,500-550,550-600,etc,u get the idea.Babbletron never answered my tweet on that,i guess he didnt like me that i raged at him,he just answer ppl asking about outfits and Premium dash :P

We have to wait for Kr to change it because we can't do major changes without KR permission. It means kr has to change it for everyone. if Na decided to do something like without KR permission. NA could be shut down or all fired and replaced. You all complain about the same thing though sadly. About ti now being balance.  It becomes more balanced around gold and plat. A lot the low level players with shitty gear and no crit defense are only in high gold because they abused a gltich. Which a lot of people shouldn't be at their rank because of it.

 

it doesn't matter if it is a differn't Culture. This is a not American made game. This is a Korean MMO, Which is suppose to be grindy. Don't get me wrong i would love for it to rank people with all same Hm or close Hm level. There is nothing Blabberton can really do.  All he can do is talk to Korea and tell him some of the NA players want it equalized or brackets. It is up to Korea to change it.  I think korea has another battleground that is unequalized. Equalize gear is for 1v1 and 3v3.

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I don't want it to be balanced,for now I started to play it again ,is ok that ppls can't que in teams of 6 anymore and you don't even need to have lots of gear (tho is nice if you do ) -if you play tactically and don't give up is really fun . I had once or twice when my pty members took the score as win -and we got 2 braziers occupied in no time while all waited for counter xD so was possible for other team to win ! I think is about coordination,and ,as always ,a bit of luck . 

Edited by Windy
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On 9/10/2016 at 1:02 AM, PsyFu said:
3. Perma stealth assassins are a bit too much when it comes to capping points. They even cap in stealth. I have seen 3-4 people trying to cap a point with only 1 assassin just popping in and out of stealth. Not sure if this is something that can be changed or maybe not allow to cap in stealth or something. After this patch they are even harder to see for many. 
 

4. Make this about skill and not about gear by balancing the teams better. Put some effort into that instead of just putting band aids on broken things. I want this game to do well for a long time but after leaving already for 3 months and returning for pvp I am dissapointed again. I don't want to see players not able to use their gear but some things maybe shouldn't be allowed. Right now you can use all buffs, Legendary pets when they come etc and it really makes 1 700+ player able to run the show by himself with some classes. Destroyers can take you down in seconds with aoe..

You realize the smoke from the brazier turns yellow when someone's trying to capture? We're automatically forced to stop capturing even if we're not kicked out of stealth. Because of this we're extremely predictable, and then you can just slap a meteor or sunflower shower and we're completely barred from capturing. And then either we're forced to run away or we have to work our butt off to force you to blow tab so we can freeze you. If you take away our stealth, you defeat the purpose of Assassins.
Also a class with an iframe bubble is much worse than a stealth capture, simply because you can't hit them out of it.

 

Whirlwind Valley IS about skill. You're forgetting that the primary objective is to capture and survive; killing is a secondary. The only reason you're dying is because you are letting your enemies kill you. If you're undergeared don't go alone, and if you're getting overwhelmed just retreat and let them have a brazier. It's better to live another day than let your enemies profit off your corpse.

On 9/10/2016 at 3:14 AM, Slyce said:

3. Stealth capturing wouldn't be so bad if assasins did not have that insane evasion as well. I agree with you that something should be done. But I'm not sure what would be a good solution.ng or even evasion?

You hit us, we're automatically forced to stop even if we evade your attack. Slap an meteor or sunflower shower, done, we're completely barred from approaching the brazier.

Edited by Shadovvv
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4 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

You hit us, we're automatically forced to stop even if we evade your attack. Slap an meteor or sunflower shower, done, we're completely barred from approaching the brazier.

Usually I try hitting with dragonchar (knockback/daze) and if it misses I spam Impact to try getting the Assasin out of stealth (Meteor is targeted btw).
Several times the Assasin evaded 3-4 attacks and still finished capturing so I did not expect evaded attacks to cancel the capture.

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3 hours ago, Slyce said:

Usually I try hitting with dragonchar (knockback/daze) and if it misses I spam Impact to try getting the Assasin out of stealth (Meteor is targeted btw).
Several times the Assasin evaded 3-4 attacks and still finished capturing so I did not expect evaded attacks to cancel the capture.

The only time no one is interrupted from capture is if there's an iframe bubble, i.e. Blade Master Winged Protector, Blade Dance Maelstrom, and the capture immunity buff. Assassins do not have an iframe bubble themselves, so unless a BM/BD is also around for their party protect, we're just going to get interrupted. Like I said, we're very easily spotted and extremely predictable unless people have tunnel vision.

Edited by Shadovvv
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Well guys I appreciate all your feedback. It seems the only change they made was to make a ranking penalty... I want to see where wwv ends up once they stop the event. If it dies then pvp dies with it again. I hope they do something positive and put some effort into keeping it alive. I am bored without it. 

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So I want to let you know the reason why its so unbalanced right now is because people could just DC for their rating. Alot of the top players don't deserve to be up there. They dc'd and got carried in order to climb really high. I wish they'd reset the ladder because those people who abused so hard are going to just not queue in order to preserve their rating.

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I'm telling you, I've came back from a 1200-300 match. It's possible for sure. If you think summoner counts as two people then that's your issue right there. As someone that PVPs every day constantly, I've learned to deal with summoners. I've fought matches with 6 summoners on the other side and i had 2 SF 3 BM and a KFM and we still won. It's possible but you just need to be the shot caller. It might sound really dumb but take initiative and direct people and communicate. Communication is the key to winning. If you see 3 summoners going middle, don't go middle. If you're fighting middle like 4v4, you leave from there and go capture something else. In terms of AP as well, I'm 640 and I pretty much get the highest DPS as a soul fighter as well as the most captures. I dont mind going against summoners at all. I do understand what you're saying but there is a reason why they're so high up and why you get so many of the same class on one team.  

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No that isn't the only reason my friend I have been in parties with 5 summoners for example. The way the rating system is set up now is basically the higher gear the higher your ranking will be. This is the way it will end up after they fix the dc issue. Class balance on a team is important so having too many of one class creates a real imbalance. Having 4-5 summoners is like 6v11 lol. This is just an example but I have seen a ton of assassins as well who could just cap and annoy 4 people and keep them from capping which keeps too many people busy just trying to take a point. If you have this happening on every point then it's a bit too much to deal with imo. 

 

What I want to see happen is teams have some sort of total overall equality. Meaning classes are varied and the total ap of the team is not off by 1000 ap as I have seen in many 700 ap vs 500 ap matchups. If they put a little effort into the matchmaking it will provide a more balanced team and not these lopsided ones we are seeing. IF they want rating to be all about gear and p2w then they will leave it as is. The only players in top will be the ones with legendaries and it will not be so much about skill as about gear. I was hoping for a mix of both or a more skill based battleground. 

 

I think the reason people dc is due to the imbalance. Yes many are trying to pad their ratings but the influx of players mainly want to get their dailies done. They need a win for that or 3 for the weekly. Looking at a score of 1000 vs your 200 it's pretty clear you won't win. If there were more hope that you could come back then people wouldn't leave so early. This fix that is incoming will only make the people stay that are caring about rating but the rest will still go offline. I think it's a silly fix tbh and only partially addressed the issues. Let's see what happens :)

Edited by PsyFu
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On 9/13/2016 at 2:37 PM, Charas Blade said:

1. I cried a river

2. I did it again

3. And again

4. And again

5. And now I'm swimming

6. And crying again.

 

Dude no balance should be involved in 6 vs 6 it wasn't intended in a first place. You want balance make 3 ppl premade and go arena, but then you'll cry about OP classes

Dude I am trying to save the game. I left once and came back because of pvp and once again it's disappointing. Try to add something that will make a difference.

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aww:( they changed it so if you leave u lose rank.

ill be bronze by tomorrow. too many leechers in 6v6 too slow to get the correct builds.
totally agree with matchmaking needing major changes.

Even in high platinum you get silvers in party with sub 500 ap asking what crit def is.

This game is the reason i need a chiropractor irl.

Edited by Jackiesaysya
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So today we go up against a team with 4 summoners and we have 0. They completely destroy us because it's 6v20.. People leave cause they know they will lose and it doesn't matter if they lose rank slowly or quickly.. If they leave they que for another match instead of waiting for certain defeat.

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21 hours ago, PsyFu said:

Dude I am trying to save the game. I left once and came back because of pvp and once again it's disappointing. Try to add something that will make a difference.

Dude, you're trying to change design of game, how many people I mean if we take 100% as gaming BNS community wants that? 1-5% maybe? You saying people quit because of that, well people quit coz they cry babies (just look at posts progression is too slow, there is no balance). Now consider that you are playing MMO and try to name me MMO there you get all end game gear in a month(I bet you'll fail!). You want to balance gear based thing if KR decide so it will be so, because EU/NA comparing to KR = nothing. There is no point to be salty and rage by creating another stupid topic "Why I quitted this game", because no one gives a *cricket* about that and it's your personal opinion. Got it?

 

P.S. I'm happy with how 6vs6 works (even though it's frustrates sometime) and I don't see any point of any of them maybe for 6 only (give ppl more time to vote or adjust it on auto mode like damage taken/damage done/things captured/kills) 

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5 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

Dude, you're trying to change design of game, how many people I mean if we take 100% as gaming BNS community wants that? 1-5% maybe? You saying people quit because of that, well people quit coz they cry babies (just look at posts progression is too slow, there is no balance). Now consider that you are playing MMO and try to name me MMO there you get all end game gear in a month(I bet you'll fail!). You want to balance gear based thing if KR decide so it will be so, because EU/NA comparing to KR = nothing. There is no point to be salty and rage by creating another stupid topic "Why I quitted this game", because no one gives a *cricket* about that and it's your personal opinion. Got it?

 

P.S. I'm happy with how 6vs6 works (even though it's frustrates sometime) and I don't see any point of any of them maybe for 6 only (give ppl more time to vote or adjust it on auto mode like damage taken/damage done/things captured/kills) 

 I don't know what you are ranting about mate but I am not concerned about gear. I am concerned about pvp and in this game it is dying if you haven't noticed. My whole clan is gone and I came back because of things like whirlwind. I don't care about p2w guys and their gear as long as the OVERALL team composition is somewhat balanced and the OVERALL team stats are not too lop-sided. You think I am one of 1-5% well just wait until the event is over and you will eat your cricketing words and enjoy your 2 hour que for wwv. People like you are just short sighted as I am trying to save this game. Revelation online will be out soon and tbh who gives a shit about what KR is doing. We are a different region with different ideas about games. I never said I wanted balanced gear so farking read my post better. I want more balanced matchmaking..

 

Let me give you an example. 

2 700 ap guys que together and they get matched with another 700+ team so you have 4 guys with 700 ap and 2 guys with 550 ap. The other team is full of 500 ap players. Who do you think will win? What I am asking for is to make sure that if a team has +700 team and there is another team in que  that they add members to make up the stat difference of the ENTIRE TEAM. This way at least the teams are a bit balanced and the p2w guys can still kill some of the other team with ease. 

 

 I will say to your comment about no one gives a cricket about that. That is your personal opinion to think that you speak for 98% of the people that play this game. Leave your ego and do something useful instead of trying to poison a thread that will potentially make players want to do whirlwind more in the future. And the last thing I will say is about your comment on changing the game design. Hell yes I would like that and NCsoft should give a crap about it as well if they want people to stay. People have choices nowadays they won't just stay for the hell of it. If they started this game for pvp and the pvp goes to shit then maybe NA/EU needs to be the leader in making it a better experience for all regions. 

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7 minutes ago, PsyFu said:

Let me give you an example. 

2 700 ap guys que together and they get matched with another 700+ team so you have 4 guys with 700 ap and 2 guys with 550 ap. The other team is full of 500 ap players. Who do you think will win? What I am asking for is to make sure that if a team has +700 team and there is another team in que  that they add members to make up the stat difference of the ENTIRE TEAM. This way at least the teams are a bit balanced and the p2w guys can still kill some of the other team with ease. 

Win will on a teamplay side, because again those 4 ppl with 500 ap, can capture and stay to defend, while those 700 will try to pvp theirs points, now if they alive longer then they dead, rip team with 4 ppl 700ap. I been though such battles already :)

 

Speaking about BG in general, only thing I want it's costume from it(insert your cricket). I prefer go ssp and annoy "miners" :) 

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I have noticed a slight improvement, less people loggin out and more sticking with the fight to the very end, on both my own and the other's team.

 

However, there are still loggers, not sure if they read the patch notes. :P

 

One thing I noticed is I had a match where two people from my team logged, and when we lost the elo loss was huge - around 35-39 for both me and my partner.

Has anyone else also observed that?

Is this maybe an unintended glitch of the new logging out penalty (i.e. do the team mates of the loggers get it too? O.O?)

Edited by Shuchin
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