ARC1276

Nerf the stupid BM

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N3ro   
9 hours ago, YukineAlterma said:

To make a comment here, Summoner's new heal is 60% to THE PARTY not to themselves. They only heal themselves for 10% of their maximum hp on a cd of thirty seconds. If they take the spec of thorn strike that heals them for 30% of the damage done on an 18 sec cooldown they lose one of their dazes. I would love to know where this super amount of healing is currently because as far as I know at the moment we only got a burst heal for the party not for us. Doom 'n' Bloom, Thorn Strike, Huzzah!, and True Friend, and Petal Storm are our heals. While it sounds like there is a lot of skills that heal they are easily counter-able.

Dude summs ALREADY had a lot of healing and now you can replace your shitty pet heal that trades your health for cat health while being annimationlocked for an instant cast that heals you 10% and the cat 60% over 24 seconds (yes your cat apparently counts as party member). So basically killing the cat now is wasted effort against a summoner who is not completely braindead. Then you also got 20% heal + 5% shield from true friend if you spec it. You got 50% of your damage as health from your f. You get 10% from your shield thingy and another 4% someone hits into your counter. So easy to counter their heal dude.

 

I just interrupt their instant cast x and y and i instantly teleport away from their f and then i double daze them to highwire pull them out of petal storm and i guard break their party counter. It´s absolutely no problem man. Easy counterable.

Edited by N3ro

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ARC1276   
On 9/4/2016 at 4:00 PM, Hangover1896 said:

 

Okay, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Play BM and you will change your position instantly. BM needs a lot more skill than most of the other classes. I guess you are a silver player, you will never see a good BM blocking all the time. Every class has different ways to punish blocking. If you just block against high gold or plat FMs/SFs/KFMs without baiting various skills and using your iframes wisely you are just dead.

 

 

After the last patch people complain about the high damage of dragontongue, you are not even mentioning that. In my opinion thats the only debatable point. Other than that BM if definitely not op, you just have to learn how to play against them, but that is the case for every class. Just try to play a BM and then say again that you dont need skill for that.

Yes because a PVP crazy FM who's been playing since closed beta and recently hit rank 1809 (which is in the top 30 for FM) and even tried rerolling a BM only to have quit because of pride and distaste to it's style (it felt bland and boring to play...plus it's just such an evil class in general, almost as evil as WL), wouldn't know what he/she is talking about. 

 

There was no punishment on BM for blocking against FM except for snowball, which has a 24 second CD. Meaning if you miss once, you have to wait 24 seconds to land it again. Worst part is that often you won't get to use it because BM have endless CCs and air combos just like stupid BDs! BMs are nothing more to me but BD with a lot more damage and they block. The ultimate cancer class.

 

I mean, unless you got a HM grip on you, you're f*cked against a BM, no matter how much skills you have, no matter how good you are with tech-chase, you're still going to loose against them just because they can literally block, evade, and CC forever. Their defense is just stupidly OP, almost to the point where they can hard counter KFMs if they wanted.

Edited by ARC1276

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Emyrryl   
On 9/4/2016 at 8:54 PM, ARC1276 said:

Blade Masters have made a rapid climb to the top of my OP board, and for good reason. Literally every skill they use seems to be some sort of CC or Resist or even worse....block. 

 

Look fine, they can have all the new skills they want and all but can they at least do something about their stupid block?! Like can they take damage from blocking (like 10% of the damage they block) or can the blocking be replaced by a "parry" (not really a stun parry like BD and Des but something like blocking one or two attacks), that way there's at least skill involved in playing as a BM?

 

Like I've been PVPing against these annoying things as a SF KFM and FM. The only one of these class that is able to actually win is SF, FMs get raped with no way to defeat them and KFM went from countering them hard to being almost useless like the FM. So seriously...can something be done to balance this clearly broken ass class? Thanks.

I haven't played in a few months..


When I last played BMs singlehandedly took THE most skill in the game to be good with and I managed to hit the number 7 spot before I finally ended up going on a hiatus (smashed too many things in frustration)   With KFM being right under there... Wh-what have I missed..?  I just watched a BM Three shot someone..? What..? What even..? THE HELL HAVE I BEEN MISSING!?  I just came back to top off my soul fighter and this is what I'm seeing..? What build even is this? What fire build? Back when I played we had HM lightning draw and that was it.. What the fuuuuck?!  

someone inbox me if they see this fill me in on wtf is going on But in light of that I'll leave a picture of my BMS happy face as this information may make me  roll back from SF to it.Screenshot_160914_003_zpspijavcbr.jpg

Edited by Emyrryl
more information incomplete.

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Emyrryl   
1 hour ago, Morgwais said:

It's simple , team bloodlust fked up the balance again :D

I want to say yeah, But.. After re-watching it. That Summ Did something massively stupid by Tabbing on a KD when the BM still had full CDs.  I mean don't get me wrong those are some LARGE damage numbers. But the window for that is so small unless left open in the way he had done so.  Those are some serious damage numbers but..   Leaving yourself open like that will get you destroyed every time. It's the same concept as when yo uLeave yourself open for a sin to lightning slash you into oblivion. Or for a soul fighter to Kingfist F spam you to death because you left yourself open for the CC chain. 

It was said eons ago Though. HM skills will make or break the BMs they've got their HM skills and people can't handle them anymore. Everyone got used to being able to walk all over them.    Other than that damage being  higher than it should be.. BMs are where they should be.  Flametongues damage goes down  they're fine again. simple as that. High Tier play  Doesn't allow that to happen.  The summoner even said that the  shitty playstyle of the BM resulted in him still being able to win against him...    One counter or dodge completely offputs the flamgtongue blahblahblah.. 

But holy crap that damage.. Alot's changed since I left.

 

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Morgwais   

True , but that's for 1v1 and 3v3 . In 6v6 and OW they are broken . I got 80k+ HP and 2k crit def and they burn that in just a few hits.

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Emyrryl   
1 minute ago, Morgwais said:

True , but that's for 1v1 and 3v3 . In 6v6 and OW they are broken . I got 80k+ HP and 2k crit def and they burn that in just a few hits.

I haven't touched 6v6 Did they remove gear equalization for it?  Because at that point I could understand anyone being broken.  Because of the incredible damage spike you get from 350-550AP then 550AP+    Hell  My BM is at the OLD ap high end. (437 was good at the time)  And just damage testing flamgtongue was critting for 17k 
 My SF is barely even geared weapon wise (Still leveling it ad Just hit profane.) And with kingfist build I more or less kill anything from 50%- with 19k Kingfist crits.  To have true balance in pvp you need to remove gear. Tactics  and equalized stats plain and simple.   


So yeah I can see them being op as hell in 6v6 But At the same token.. That's more gear and lack of damage balancing than it is the BMS fault.   Then again I have toadmit as a BM play from PvP seasons 1-3 I'm EXTREMELY biased towards the ID of Bms being overpowered Because I remember just how much you had to invest in terms of tactics to even remotely succeed against them.  (Then again we didn't have HM skills. Hell when I quit the only possible to obtian HM skill was just lightning draw, and nothing else. So there was Alot that went into succeeding. And I made it to number 7 before I stopped at risk of my rage From matches destroying things lol..) 


So in light of that, we can't say Bloodlust screwed up the balancing again. They can't rescrew something they never UNscrewed :P

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Avalyn   

More so than any other class, the people who were playing BM right before the desolate tomb patch were 90%+ mains who had been playing since launch/45 patch or even earlier on other servers, because of the way NCWEST released their patches. At launch everyone literally avoided BM like it was the plague. The only people who played it were clueless noobs who didn't end up wanting to reroll, and people who had been playing BM for years on other servers. I can guarantee you every other class is 30-40%+ rerolls/alts who have been playing their class for 3-4 months or less, almost half of the time most pre-tomb BM's have been maining their class. It gradually got better as HM skills rolled out, but BM was still widely reputed as that class you didn't want to jump into if you didn't have pretty high-level knowledge of the games workings. So pre-tomb BM population was already heavily filtered and concentrated.

 

So why does this matter?

 

Well the only thing that has changed in this patch is that before, BM looked something like Investment <<< Reward.

Now, BM is very close to Investment = Reward.

 

And BM's have invested a lot.

 

 

I think once the bandwagon really begins to hit in a month or two people will start to understand that BM isn't the hurr durr spam RMB that people are making it out to be right now. Technically we were spamming RMB before too, but whatever.

Edited by Avalyn

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N3ro   
11 minutes ago, Avalyn said:

More so than any other class, the people who were playing BM right before the desolate tomb patch were 90%+ mains who had been playing since launch/45 patch or even earlier on other servers, because of the way NCWEST released their patches. At launch everyone literally avoided BM like it was the plague. The only people who played it were clueless noobs who didn't end up wanting to reroll, and people who had been playing BM for years on other servers. I can guarantee you every other class is 30-40%+ rerolls/alts who have been playing their class for 3-4 months or less, almost half of the time most pre-tomb BM's have been maining their class. Pre-tomb BM population was already heavily filtered and concentrated.

 

So why does this matter?

 

Well the only thing that has changed in this patch is that before, BM looked something like Investment <<< Reward.

Now, BM is very close to Investment = Reward.

 

And BM's have invested a lot.

 

 

I think once the bandwagon really begins to hit in a month or two people will start to understand that BM isn't the hurr durr spam RMB that people are making it out to be right now. Technically we were spamming RMB before too, but whatever.

But now it´s much easier, because you don´t have to manage your chi anymore and you do more damage with less ccs and you don´t even have to tech chase a lot of the time when you baited their tab and still have your y pull. You also no longer have to know how much damage you can do. Before you had to know that, because you had to know when you could just use your flock of blades to then kill your opponent with it, now... it does not matter. Flock of blades is just your grab escape, or extra opener when your opponents tabs are down.

Edited by N3ro

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Avalyn   

Fire BM has it a lot easier offensively, but defensively is where it becomes much harder  than lightning.

 

On top of being a lot more predictable, you are pretty much almost always going to get hit by the tab escape daze because your opponent won't tab if they're not in danger, and your only way of creating that situation is by getting the dragontongues out in that very limited window. If you've watched any fire BM streamers lately you can see them getting hit a lot more by tab dazes now which leads to a lot of dangerous situations. Since you don't always get to have a situation where your opponent uses the first tab, this is extremely dangerous. 

 

If your opponent does a grab or something to force the flock and then tabs out when they see lunar slash, you're left in a situation where you have to defend yourself for around 16 seconds while trying not to waste your CC's because you can't do damage.

 

Fire is also heavily dependent on staying in draw stance because your conflagration doesn't last long and switching stance loses you quite a bit of time. This severely limits your combo options because you don't get to have lunar slash daze so almost all your CC's are in basic stance. Also leaves you without the utility that things like Q'ing behind someone to flicker stun has in lightning build.

 

 

Basically even though fire is strong, this is why people still recommend new BM to learn how to pvp in lightning first.

Edited by Avalyn

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Emyrryl   
5 minutes ago, Avalyn said:

Fire BM has it a lot easier offensively, but defensively is where it becomes much harder  than lightning.

 

On top of being a lot more predictable, you are pretty much almost always going to get hit by the tab escape daze because your opponent won't tab if they're not in danger, and your only way of creating that situation is by getting the dragontongues out in that very limited window. If you've watched any fire BM streamers lately you can see them getting hit a lot more by tab dazes now which leads to a lot of dangerous situations. Since you don't always get to have a situation where your opponent uses the first tab, this is extremely dangerous. 

 

If your opponent does a grab or something to force the flock and then tabs out when they see lunar slash, you're left in a situation where you have to defend yourself for around 16 seconds while trying not to waste your CC's because you can't do damage.

 

Fire is also heavily dependent on staying in draw stance because your conflagration doesn't last long and switching stance loses you quite a bit of time. This severely limits your combo options because you don't get to have lunar slash daze so almost all your CC's are in basic stance. Also leaves you without the utility that things like Q'ing behind someone to flicker stun has in lightning build.

 

 

Basically even though fire is strong, this is why people still recommend new BM to learn how to pvp in lightning first.

Exactly this.  Sure Fire Bm gives you a nice spike of damage with flamtongue. But any competent player is going to walk circles around you for even ATTEMPTING to just RMB hurrdurr.  

I honestly still prefer lightning build as it gives me an all around general way of keeping a healthy amount of offense with an overwhelming amount of defense. 

Anyway in other news it's good to see that NOTHING has changed. 

Paper: NERF SCISSORS
Scissors: NERF ROCK
Rock: NERF PAPER

So it's alllllllllll the same thing as before. 

"Oh I don't naturally counter this class into the ground it's OP. " 

I had a feeling this was off putting I actually started to get worried for a bit because I've been playing BM for years if you consider my  time on overseas servers. Phew.. Glad to know my worry was for nothing.

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Avalyn   

Actually the one class where fire has a significant advantage - like lightning is not even worth considering to use anymore kind of significant - is vs summoner.

 

Wait for the cat to get close to you, Hongmoon pull the rat in so that both are stunned for 3 seconds, then lunar slash and AoE dragontongue - guaranteed the summoner will tab escape, and you can 100-0 the cat before he has time to heal it or do anything because of the time in CC + tab escape.

 

Because summoner healing is crazy now, fire damage helps a ton too.

Edited by Avalyn

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Emyrryl   
13 minutes ago, Avalyn said:

Actually the one class where fire has a significant advantage - like lightning is not even worth considering to use anymore kind of significant - is vs summoner.

 

Wait for the cat to get close to you, Hongmoon pull the rat in so that both are stunned for 3 seconds, then lunar slash and AoE dragontongue - guaranteed the summoner will tab escape, and you can 100-0 the cat before he has time to heal it or do anything because of the time in CC + tab escape.

 

Because summoner healing is crazy now, fire damage helps a ton too.

Sounds about right, I might have to dust off my sword and put my regium corvis back on my BM and drop the SF like a rock  All this talk is making me miss it :P

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N3ro   

Bms can do plenty of damage with only aircombos 1 rmb every 6 seconds and lightning draw too. A lot of bms also open with hm y into lightning draw, then they walk away from you, witch makes it so you do not have a window to tab ecape and hit them. If you tab escape, you won´t hit them with it no matter how hard you spam it and then they tech chase it with either flicker, or flock of blades. So you don´t tab escape that. Then they will use their pentaslash into an aircombo and anfter that you´re below 50%. I was at 48% after a friend did ONLY that to me.

 

I´m not exactly gonna say bms are the most redicolous class in the game, or they are super favored against sins, but they ARE favored against sins in the neutral game. The only reason sin wins against bms and are favored all in all is because they have 2 escapes and insane punish/combo tools. I don´t even think using firebuild is any better against sins in specific, because the tab daze is pretty strong against bolt strike and you don´t have too many other RELYABLE tools to punish boltstrikes when your flock of blades is on cooldown. Against any other class though i´m pretty sure it is better.

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Madarame   

Then how come i can beat most of the fire BMs while im still rolling on lightning? Actually i lost just once against fire BM and it was mainly cuz his ping was like twise as good and still didnt give the guy a chance to use his dragon tongue on me... Which means you ppl just dont know how to fight fire BMs... And why you crying now? Why u didnt say something when BMs were "meh" ? And still we have no guaranteed win match up cuz all of our fights revolve around 40-50-60%. Just learn to play ur class instead of posting stupid "pls nerf this or that" topics.. Even with the fire build BMs still require more skill than most of the other classes.. \/ peace

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Emyrryl   
4 minutes ago, Madarame said:

Then how come i can beat most of the fire BMs while im still rolling on lightning? Actually i lost just once against fire BM and it was mainly cuz his ping was like twise as good and still didnt give the guy a chance to use his dragon tongue on me... Which means you ppl just dont know how to fight fire BMs... And why you crying now? Why u didnt say something when BMs were "meh" ? And still we have no guaranteed win match up cuz all of our fights revolve around 40-50-60%. Just learn to play ur class instead of posting stupid "pls nerf this or that" topics.. Even with the fire build BMs still require more skill than most of the other classes.. \/ peace

Very blunt way of saying what I said :P

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N3ro   
1 hour ago, Madarame said:

Then how come i can beat most of the fire BMs while im still rolling on lightning? Actually i lost just once against fire BM and it was mainly cuz his ping was like twise as good and still didnt give the guy a chance to use his dragon tongue on me... Which means you ppl just dont know how to fight fire BMs... And why you crying now? Why u didnt say something when BMs were "meh" ? And still we have no guaranteed win match up cuz all of our fights revolve around 40-50-60%. Just learn to play ur class instead of posting stupid "pls nerf this or that" topics.. Even with the fire build BMs still require more skill than most of the other classes.. \/ peace

Because you outplay them? That´s all. How come i beat most of every single class in the game as an assassin? Assassin op rant.

Also even though lightning build is harder to play, that still does not mean you can INSTANTLY play fire build perfectly well when you´re used to lightning build.

 

I´m btw in a way paper that sais rock´s fire rmb should get nerved, or more or less removed from pvp entierly. You don´t even have to nerf fire damage, just make them REQUIRE running skills like fire flicker and fire flock of blades that ppl DO NOT want to run in pvp, because they are garbage.

 

It´s pretty much the same like i think that rng evade should just get removed. And c stun should get a cd increase to like 45 seconds.

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Emyrryl   
26 minutes ago, N3ro said:

Because you outplay them? That´s all. How come i beat most of every single class in the game as an assassin? Assassin op rant.

Also even though lightning build is harder to play, that still does not mean you can INSTANTLY play fire build perfectly well when you´re used to lightning build.

 

I´m btw in a way paper that sais rock´s fire rmb should get nerved, or more or less removed from pvp entierly. You don´t even have to nerf fire damage, just make them REQUIRE running skills like fire flicker and fire flock of blades that ppl DO NOT want to run in pvp, because they are garbage.

 

It´s pretty much the same like i think that rng evade should just get removed. And c stun should get a cd increase to like 45 seconds.

I feel ya... Part of me hates sins who perma stealth For the sheer factor of " I know I've done more damage let me hide for 1:11 on the timer.  

But that's probably old news now given the changes.  

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ARC1276   
On 9/15/2016 at 6:49 AM, Emyrryl said:

Exactly this.  Sure Fire Bm gives you a nice spike of damage with flamtongue. But any competent player is going to walk circles around you for even ATTEMPTING to just RMB hurrdurr.  

I honestly still prefer lightning build as it gives me an all around general way of keeping a healthy amount of offense with an overwhelming amount of defense. 

Anyway in other news it's good to see that NOTHING has changed. 

Paper: NERF SCISSORS
Scissors: NERF ROCK
Rock: NERF PAPER

So it's alllllllllll the same thing as before. 

"Oh I don't naturally counter this class into the ground it's OP. " 

I had a feeling this was off putting I actually started to get worried for a bit because I've been playing BM for years if you consider my  time on overseas servers. Phew.. Glad to know my worry was for nothing.

Well it seems like this now:

 

Paper: NERF SCISSORS!

ROCK: NERF SCISSORS!

Scissors: ROFLMFAO!

 

That is in the sense that BMs in arena seem to require knowledge of one thing: How to show me that RMB!

 

Played against BM as WL -----> BM ends fight quickly because block and fire build

Played against BM as KFM ---> BM wins because boot works on knocked down targets and they do the chicken dance when you tab. (basically they just hit Q and E) also they have stupidly high damaging CCs

Played against BM as SF------->If I can break their block and keep it broken, I win. If not, I'm in for a ride. 

Played against BM as FM------> AFTER FINALLY UNLOCKING HM GRIP, I FINALLY CAN BEAT A BM! 

 

And that's my experience playing against BM. It's always a lopsided battle in their favor because they can spam their stupid ret@rded block all day and hit for a sh!t ton of damage, not to also forget their CCs. I guess "balanced" fighter equates to "I'm the best at everything and everyone else can suck it!"

 

Insanely good CC: check

Impossible damage: check

Endless block: check

ridiculous healing: nope but do they really need it? Nah...Will they get it? Yup

A cheap OP grip escape: check

2 stun escapes: nope, but odds are the one time you stun them, they'll follow up with a 100-0 combo that ends you anyway.

 

Point is that I will be happy when they finally take something away from BMs because they can literally do everything.

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On 9/4/2016 at 8:54 PM, ARC1276 said:

Blade Masters have made a rapid climb to the top of my OP board, and for good reason. Literally every skill they use seems to be some sort of CC or Resist or even worse....block. 

 

Look fine, they can have all the new skills they want and all but can they at least do something about their stupid block?! Like can they take damage from blocking (like 10% of the damage they block) or can the blocking be replaced by a "parry" (not really a stun parry like BD and Des but something like blocking one or two attacks), that way there's at least skill involved in playing as a BM?

 

Like I've been PVPing against these annoying things as a SF KFM and FM. The only one of these class that is able to actually win is SF, FMs get raped with no way to defeat them and KFM went from countering them hard to being almost useless like the FM. So seriously...can something be done to balance this clearly broken ass class? Thanks.

I'm inclined to disagree.  Yes their block stun is BS at best, but they do have a weakness in their rotation which a FM can exploit easily.  It's just knowing when and how to do it.  And you don't need HM Grip to do it.

 

Granted I'm by far decent at PVP, but recently learned how to exploit that weakness against BM's which have made for increasingly consistent results in my matches against them.

 

And I understand there are BM's out there which are basically amazing despite the weakness I see in their rotations I just am hoping over time I can learn to deal with those types of players while still maintaining that exploit in their rotations.

 

Truthfully the problem isn't BM when it comes to FM, the problem is FM in general.   To many resists against them that counters their intended play style.   KFM's are just as bad for it.  Assassin's stealth is irritating to no end.   I honestly don't know why people think FM is the hard counter to Assassin, when I see it being the other way around all thanks to their stealth mechanics.   One of the higher defensive stats a FM has is evasion, which doesn't work and is limited in functionality to KFM's specifically and possibly Assassins. (confirmed by a GM) In short no class can take advantage of evasion other than KFM's or possibly Assassins.  Why?  Poor PVP & class design specifically in primary defensive stats.

 

Another Example:  Snowball/Frost Tornado can either be blocked/iframed/resisted/countered/evaded when it's designed to cancel and silence defensive/offensive skills.   This should include active skills & passives like Max Agility, All stealth skills, Divine Veil or whatever the skilled resist is for Summoner.  Personally these skills should be unblockable, uncounterable, unresistable, and should not be i-framed or evaded if and when it hits when a FM uses it.  The CD is there for a reason, otherwise lower the CD.  To balance between Snowball and Frost Tornado, I suggest limiting Tornado to silence offensives skills while snowball only silences defensive skills giving us an option between offensive or defensive silence.  Note:  If an assassin can't fight out of stealth for 6 seconds they should quit now.  A 6 second silence to your stealth and stealth related counter ability is far from unreasonable.

 

Another Example:  Shadow Grasp -  I personally have no use for this skill in PVP since it's SOOO easy to escape from.  (ironically this is also why warlocks are so easy to beat, because their skills mimic that of shadow grasp and it's just to easy to escape it, and their thrall is a joke at best) It's basically a useless skill in my eyes,  Might be useful in PVE but semi-useful in world PVP but for arena 1v1's it's useless.  Even getting Chibomb doesn't make it any more viable since Chibomb is a casted skill and without better CC skills the ability for people to escape shadow grasp makes chibomb not all that useful with it.

 

Another Example:  Phantom Grip -  I'd like to see this skill changed from Paralyze to Restrain, and allow us to use it against bosses whom are in a CC'd state such as stun, or kd.  And I'd like to see this skill cause aerial with a double tap or Stage 2 version of the skill and remove aerial from Fire storm, heatwave, and Rising blaze since it's not even needed, then change Wildfire to do more damage to compensate for Rising blaze ultimately removing Rising blaze all together.

 

Another Example:  Why is the attack speed on Frost Palm when using chill so low compared to Blazing Palm?  This needs to get fixed even it if means adding a point into that tree.

 

And another example:   Tower of Infinity:  Top 500 classes on my realm:  160 Summoners, sets of 50+ for every other class and 3 Force Masters.  What would that tell someone about FM in particular?  I read that as saying,  FM lacks utility or other classes have way to much utility.

 

That being said however,  I still think WL is weak in PVP.  I think they need to shorten either CD's or shorten/eliminate cast timers on their skills.   A bad FM can easily compete against a WL, in fact for me personally I love going against WL's they are so easy to beat as a FM to the point I do feel bad about it.  Only reason I advocate a buff to WL's as well.

 

My 2 cents from a FM perspective at least.

Edited by RageFrost

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Quote

Insanely good CC: check

Impossible damage: check

Endless block: check

ridiculous healing: nope but do they really need it? Nah...Will they get it? Yup

A cheap OP grip escape: check

2 stun escapes: nope, but odds are the one time you stun them, they'll follow up with a 100-0 combo that ends you anyway.

Insanely good CC? *cricket* pls, a KFM stunlocking you to death is ok? A cheesy sin poking and hiding their asses and stunlocking you is ok? A destro catches you on a cc chain, kiss your ass goodbye and you're saying we have insane ccs. LMAO

 

Impossible dmg? Yeah fire dmg is strong now but if you got punished by a fire bm proly u messed up. Git gud

 

Endless block? Goods FM/Sum/SF can break our blocks and then rekt us if we derp. Git gud again

 

Ridiculous healing? WTF!!! Block spec'd for parry heals 2% over 5 sec normal block heals 1% and HM block heals 10% like shoulder charge. FMs can heal up close to full health and it's ok? Pls.

 

A cheap OP grip escape: lol 1min cd

 

2 stun escapes: nope, but odds are the one time you stun them, they'll follow up with a 100-0 combo that ends you anyway. Again, WTF!!!!

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Avalyn   

FM has so many ways to punish block. If you've ever  watched high ranking BM fight FM the BM is scared to block half the time. And if you're playing against parry block you're probably in bronze where all the new BM's with no HM block are.

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Shadovvv   

Fire BMs are strong, yes, but that's counterbalanced by the fact that they're extremely predictable as Dragontongue needs a Conflagration set-up, and to my knowledge Fire BMs loses a couple of CCs.

 

To set up Dragontongue they need to use Lunar Slash to get Conflagration. However, Dragontongue has a long cast animation that cannot be animation-cancelled. So anyone with a brain will know to watch out for Lunar Slash and use their Trinket on it, and then the BM is forced to eat the Trinket as they cannot cancel Dragontongue on mid animation.

On 9/5/2016 at 1:55 PM, Samyaza said:

My experience with FIre BM:

 

 

You wasted the trinket at the worst possible time.

 

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That's how a FM punishes a BM.

 

Jaesung one of the best korean FM vs Ming Chai the best chinese BM.

 

Once again git gud and don't come with this shit BM is op.

Edited by Devilwithin

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N3ro   
8 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

Fire BMs are strong, yes, but that's counterbalanced by the fact that they're extremely predictable as Dragontongue needs a Conflagration set-up, and to my knowledge Fire BMs loses a couple of CCs.

 

To set up Dragontongue they need to use Lunar Slash to get Conflagration. However, Dragontongue has a long cast animation that cannot be animation-cancelled. So anyone with a brain will know to watch out for Lunar Slash and use their Trinket on it, and then the BM is forced to eat the Trinket as they cannot cancel Dragontongue on mid animation.

For the most part thats just wrong. Yes you loose 1 cc, but not more than that. Only your tab daze. And you eventually also gain a cc (kind of) with flock of blades knockback as you do not really run blade call with firebuild against any class.

 

Fire BMs have 2 'activators' for their rb getting spammable, they still can use it without those activators, but then it has 6 seconds cd. Witch still is fine for 'poking' and the lightning rb does only do like half the damage anyways and you run out of chi pretty quickly without using flock of blades/blade call. The damage is not even close to firebuild, except when you use blade call/flock of blades and use the x skill you have in that stance for the lightning buff, then it does really good damage and you can also easiely overkill people with it as well. But flock of blades has a high cooldown.

 

Also lightning rb is also not cancelable. So making that an argument is pretty dump as when lightning bms spam their rb they too are annimationlocked.

 

And when you just tab every time i use my lunar slash i´ll throw in some e q right after lunar slash and if you tab there you´re done as you then get hm pulled into flock of blades and then x skill (yeah this works you don´t enter draw stance instantly) then you die in 5 seconds. Or tbh i might even choose to not even care about your tab escape as sometimes it just does not matter. If i have all my skills ready against a kfm, then what´s he gonna do about it? Its pretty common actually, happens every time you win the opener against a kfm. If he does not tab, he dies to your tab > rb spam. If he tabs you hm block and then hm pull him and he dies to the flock of blades buff. There is almost no way you can loose from that possition unless you get MASSIVELY outplayed.

 

A lot of the fire bms you see around are just class carried, but actually s*ck at it, so you might be able to easiely outplay them just like that. It´s different when you fight Luki, Enoll, Misaki, etc. As a sin its a little different as especially at the beginning it was WAYYYY easier to fight fire bms as they lost their tab daze and often times you didn´t know how to punish boltstrikes without it, or just failed something, because they are not used to the new build. And sin is (still) pretty much favored against bms. Firebuild does not even do too much against sins a lot of the time as they have to play around our tab, or else they get f*cked a lot of the time. Against pretty much any other class though i think firebuild is just plain stronger and against sins it also can be, but it´s just not as significant.

Edited by N3ro

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First of all  I never said BM was OP.... I hate the fact they can chain block stun someone, but I realize the need for it even as a FM.

 

Secondly, Some of the skills a FM has are broken or have little to no use, granted that's my opinion based on what kind of BS I've seen in PVP

 

Third do you really believe a FM DESIGNED BY NCSOFT needs Evasion as a primary defensive stat, when the *cricket*ing stat doesn't even work?  Why even have Evasion in the game, make it passive ability for KFM exclusively and remove the defensive stat from the Character sheet for all other classes and call it a *cricket*ing day.

 

Fourth Yes our escape is also on CD as well, only difference is FM's don't carry 4 - 6 CC's like you do.  We have 3, and we have to sacrifice a lot to get all 3.  Not to mention our CC's can be blocked.  Giving us a 2 useless 24-36 second CD's, which leaves us with 1 *cricket*ing stun that doesn't proc if the target isn't frozen, did I mention we can't freeze BM's through block?

 

Fifth, ok  we can freeze you all we want, but it doesn't mean dick if you block everything now does it?  Freeze doesn't *cricket*ing work if it's blocked, just like our Silence skills L2GitGud

 

Sixth:  You might want to go back and read the first *cricket*ing sentence of my first post, because I clearly disagreed with the OP, or do you need to L2Read as much as I do?

 

Seventh:  I got news for you Devil, you aren't Korean, and you aren't  Jaesung    So stop comparing everyone else to someone like him.  Statistically FM's are at a disadvantage in a lot of areas, but probably not nearly as much as a WL.  It honestly doesn't mean dick to me what 1 person out of 3 million can do when the statistics show a majority who play the same class are at a disadvantage or can't compete.  Any dumbass can be good with a destro, any dumbass can be good with a scummoner, any dumbass can exploit Stealth Mechanics, any dumbass can exploit block stun cc but not every dumbass can play a disadvantaged class to the same caliber as  Jaesung 

 

FFS, most of you people clearly don't *cricket*ing play the class you are b1tch1ng about.  I have played BM, and Warlock, and Destro, and FM, and out of all the classes the 2 most OP classes for CC chaining and 100-0 are BM's and Destros, with KFM following closely behind.

 

Do the *cricket*ing math people LOOK at the *cricket*ing ranks in TOI for example count how many FM's are in the top 500 on your realms, then count how many *cricket*ing BM, KFM, BD, SF, Scummoners and Destros you see.  The evidence is there despite how blind and ignorant people want to be about it.   

 

Clearly you have yet to L2P yourself since your comments are ill thought when it comes to justification for why BM's are so strong.  Did they need a boost, yes they did, did they need THAT much of a boost, no they certainly didn't.  And despite that, I still don't think they should be nerfed.  In fact I quit and deleted my BM because I hated the changes they made to the class.  And if there's any class that deserves a boost it's WL's.

 

This is why I hate posting suggestions on the forums, NCSoft refuses to acknowledge the broken aspects of the game, and would prefer everyone fight among each other while NCSoft does nothing about it and doesn't give a flying *cricket*.  Anyone who has played NCSoft games in the past would know first hand about this.

 

And if you don't believe me go ask NCSoft what happened with Aion and ask them how many people got fired because they didn't listen to the community when 50+% of the population quit playing over night.

 

 

FYI for everyone looking at this thread:

 

x2jqt0.jpg

 

Working as intended:  And all Devil said to the OP was, "Git gud."

 

This just solidifies how NCSoft carries the PVP community by putting them against Legendary geared PVP'ers when they HAVE to PVP to get the same gear as a Veteran PVP'er.   But, don't p1ss and whine about people not doing as well, when they are forced to fight clearly gear dependent PVP mechanics.

 

Despite that in this game that gear dependency is no where NEAR as bad as Aion was.  And the difference here between Aion, Aion was open world PVP enabled 100% there was no PVP off switch.   Get your ass gank'd by an alliance group of 16 people at level 30 while just trying to level your character and you learn quickly how distasteful NCSoft's idea of PVP can be.  And they usually have a PVP community to match it.

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