Tama Densha

Destroyer DPS lackluster in PvE

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Sorry about the rant, I'm just getting a bit fed up of being outclassed by other classes with similar gear to me and need to blow off some steam...

 

At close to end game gear [700+AP] Destroyer DPS is bad, I've been aware of destroyer damage issues for quite a while, but they are finally a lot more visible due to the DPS meter.

Even when animation canceling properly, the class clocks in at roughly 70%-80% of the damage of its peers (when not using its grab).

A destroyer should benefit from that gear as much as every other class, and currently that just isn't the case. A destroyer doesn't get some special discount on upgrading its gear... It cost just as much to upgrade its gear as every other class, so why doesn't it see equal benefit?

 

Sure, the class has a restraint grab, and it adds a lot of DPS to the party (although its not any more than soulburn or blue buff, which don't stop their users from attacking). Destroyer grab is some of the best damage it can do right now... that being said, it doesn't make any use of their gear whatsoever. Instead it relies on gear of the other members of the party, which begs the question... Why should a destroyer upgrade its gear when upgrading any of its party members gear will provide more damage?

 

Destroyers have burst... But it isn't that much more that the burst damage of any other class.

Destroyers are survivable... But don't do enough damage, nor have enough extra threat generation to effectively tank.

Destroyers have a restraint skill... But so do Blade Dancers who outclass Destroyers in almost every way, bringing a restraint skill, similar survivability, similar mobility, and better DPS to the table.

 

Destroyers are underwhelming in party play, and even more underwhelming in solo play when farming in places like Mushin's Tower and Naksun due to low damage. I'm thoroughly underwhelmed by the classes performance despite enjoying playing it...

 

I guess what i'm trying to say is, destroyers just need to do more damage in PvE.

Edited by Tama Densha

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Skyblade   
6 hours ago, Tama Densha said:

Sorry about the rant, I'm just getting a bit fed up of being outclassed by other classes with similar gear to me and need to blow off some steam...

 

At close to end game gear [700+AP] Destroyer DPS is bad, I've been aware of destroyer damage issues for quite a while, but they are finally a lot more visible due to the DPS meter.

Even when animation canceling properly, the class clocks in at roughly 70%-80% of the damage of its peers (when not using its grab).

A destroyer should benefit from that gear as much as every other class, and currently that just isn't the case. A destroyer doesn't get some special discount on upgrading its gear... It cost just as much to upgrade its gear as every other class, so why doesn't it see equal benefit?

 

Sure, the class has a restraint grab, and it adds a lot of DPS to the party (although its not any more than soulburn or blue buff, which don't stop their users from attacking). Destroyer grab is some of the best damage it can do right now... that being said, it doesn't make any use of their gear whatsoever. Instead it relies on gear of the other members of the party, which begs the question... Why should a destroyer upgrade its gear when upgrading any of its party members gear will provide more damage?

 

Destroyers have burst... But it isn't that much more that the burst damage of any other class.

Destroyers are survivable... But don't do enough damage, nor have enough extra threat generation to effectively tank.

Destroyers have a restraint skill... But so do Blade Dancers who outclass Destroyers in almost every way, bringing a restraint skill, similar survivability, similar mobility, and better DPS to the table.

 

Destroyers are underwhelming in party play, and even more underwhelming in solo play when farming in places like Mushin's Tower and Naksun due to low damage. I'm thoroughly underwhelmed by the classes performance despite enjoying playing it...

 

I guess what i'm trying to say is, destroyers just need to do more damage in PvE.

totally agree with You 100 % .. destroyer  seriously need to do more damage .. last few patches  only  make destroyer  more weak and weak among  another classes .. it is like game developer really hate destroyer class .. hope thay fix this 

Edited by Skyblade

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From watching KR it seems like the extra focus regen and extra Wrath uptime from amulets ends up really benefiting us. I found https://www.youtube.com/user/k1soo/videos on youtube and he seems to keep up with other classes in KR in his groups and Praetor's groups. But you see him able to just hold RMB a lot more and have a lot more Wrath animation canceling. I'm mostly just staying on Des with balance to look forward to and the class does well in ToI/PVP also which is nice. But ya, frustrating right now.

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Dumb question, how does destroyer grab do more damage?   I have a destro as well, and grab is not only situational, but also one of the least damaging skills we have it's equivalent in damage to Judgement spam.  Just because grab has restraint that does not add to our DPS.  It in fact lowers it.   Unlike where another class uses a restraint skill.   Then our Long Division does crazy high damage, but again restraint in general is situational.

 

On 8/28/2016 at 2:49 AM, Tama Densha said:

Destroyer grab is some of the best damage it can do right now...

I just want an explanation as to what evidence shows this skill having the best damage for Destroyers?   This skill in no way adds to destroyer damage.  it does however add damage to every other class.  Just like Soulburn does.  Soulburn increases Destroyer damage for 15 seconds (Ani-cancel with cleave is pointless in this case and will actually produce less damage over that same 15 seconds than just using wrath.)  Throw in fury after that for 6 seconds and you've just hit several several hundred thousand damage up to 1/2 million damage or more in 21 seconds relative to gear of course.  Other classes don't benefit from soulburn as much as Destoyers.

Edited by RageFrost

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6 hours ago, RageFrost said:

Dumb question, how does destroyer grab do more damage? 

Party context, it is completely useless in solo play.

 

In a party of course millage may vary, as it both depends on the composition of your party, and their relative gear level... in my case my party members also have high AP and they benefit tremendously from using their restraint skill, doing more damage in 18 seconds worth of restraint than over the course of the rest of a ~3 minute fight with their other skills.  The extra damage they do because of the grab it is far more than I myself could do with fury, or even soulburn.

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Des/BD grab is a godsend since the restraint skills were added.  All other classes can dish out MASSIVE free damage while you hold the mob.  Honestly, if the meter actually attributed that damage (or even a portion of it) to Des/BD you guys would top the parse every fight.

 

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The main issue is that Lock/Sin/BD provide similar offensive and defensive support while heavily outdpsing destroyers for now.

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Donthink   

Totally agree, destro now is the lowest pve dps class. And whats the most annoying is that you can't get any benefit from restrain in solo play. Also as OP said, for now destro gearing is useless. In any party destro with 2 extra sec grab time amulet will be more useful than destro w/o it but with much more AP.

In other words, now on des you just spec into double CC's and grabing things non stop making you as useful as summoners cat...

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TJXX   

Oh please, a destroyer can solo/duo the exact same things every other class can.  The dps every class can put out in this game is much higher than it needs to be.  Everyone class has already got the yeti solo and 1 minute mushin kill. 

 

Somebody has to be on the bottom and it'll change around as the game goes on.  Anyone that's any good at the game won't even notice their dps is lower than other classes unless they come up against someone that out gears and out plays them anyway.

Edited by TJXX

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I'm immensely sad to hear my favourite class being so d*** useless now... So what IS the best dps class if all of them are played in the same skill level? 

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On 9/2/2016 at 3:54 PM, TJXX said:

Oh please, a destroyer can solo/duo the exact same things every other class can.  The dps every class can put out in this game is much higher than it needs to be.  Everyone class has already got the yeti solo and 1 minute mushin kill. 

Sure it can solo/duo the same content, it just takes 30% longer... Possibly even 40% if you count the time lost for being melee rather than ranged. Currently a well geared FM can clear Naksun tower F9-F15 in ~16 minutes, good luck coming anywhere close to that with a destroyer right now.

 

On another note, one of my clan mates geared up a new BD and we've been playing together a bit, he has worse soul shields, over 100 less AP, and no legendary, and his DPS is pretty much caught up to mine... its not fair *sob*.

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21 hours ago, ConstanzaX said:

I'm immensely sad to hear my favourite class being so d*** useless now... So what IS the best dps class if all of them are played in the same skill level? 

Basically anything but Des is good dps, maybe kfm isn't quite at the top tier. If you want to keep the same grab utility but be a better class, you could roll BD and stay competitive. Des catches back up around Black Tower it seems, but that is like a year out.

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hmm maybe you guys all need to check ping? dps by far one of the highest in the game as far as burst dmg goes. No other class can RMBx3 and instantly wreck a player from 100% to 0%. isn't the highest dot but def highest burst...

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Think you may have mistaken this for the BM forum. Our burst is red buff + ani-cancel but you generally don't get to do that in pvp as you have to use blue buff against most classes.

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The only reason my clan takes me on 4mans is purely for grab. Other then that im just a CC machine. And just a note, if you are posting videos from other regions that are not EU/NA just remember that those areas have gear we do not have access to. The main point here is EU/NA des damage is in the pits for the pve side of things. 

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TJXX   
1 hour ago, Duriensbane said:

The only reason my clan takes me on 4mans is purely for grab. Other then that im just a CC machine. And just a note, if you are posting videos from other regions that are not EU/NA just remember that those areas have gear we do not have access to. The main point here is EU/NA des damage is in the pits for the pve side of things. 

It's really not that bad.  I was able to solo yeti, still have like 200 ap I can get and 10%+ more crit rate, and tons more crit damage is available.

 

 

 

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To be fair, that was post-nerf correct? Not that a Des hasn't solo'd it pre-nerf though. Think he had to use dragon blood and take a death during ice phase though iirc.

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TJXX   
53 minutes ago, Stensatsu said:

To be fair, that was post-nerf correct? Not that a Des hasn't solo'd it pre-nerf though. Think he had to use dragon blood and take a death during ice phase though iirc.

Yeah it's post nerf, but my stats are right around the same as most classes that can do it post nerf.  Obviously some do it easier.  I've had runs where I need dragons blood and runs where I don't.  Can take 2-3 ice and usually live with 1k hp, or if I get a reset mid ice phase, which isn't that hard to time, I can just keep dpsing.  You can also just take 2 ice at the start and iframe the other 6 without worry.

Edited by TJXX

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On 10/15/2016 at 0:20 AM, TJXX said:

Yeah it's post nerf, but my stats are right around the same as most classes that can do it post nerf.  Obviously some do it easier.  I've had runs where I need dragons blood and runs where I don't.  Can take 2-3 ice and usually live with 1k hp, or if I get a reset mid ice phase, which isn't that hard to time, I can just keep dpsing.  You can also just take 2 ice at the start and iframe the other 6 without worry.

Ya, it's not like we don't have enough dps to do any particular content. Just annoying to do 50% of most class' dps while having to deal with silly gameplay decisions like not moving while using cleave and 0 base crit. Obviously this gets fixed with later gear, but can definitely get why people would be frustrated. I've kind of waffled about rerolling personally to a summ or bd.

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TJXX   

It would be nice to be able to move and use cleave, other than that nothing about destroyer bothers me.

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Wataru   
On 9/5/2016 at 3:29 PM, Stensatsu said:

 If you want to keep the same grab utility but be a better class, you could roll BD and stay competitive.

Badge wise destroyer is better if the boss can't be CC'ed that often, as it's longer and buffs crit more. DPS wise BD isn't that much greater to be worth switching.

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