6v6 is NOT Pay2Win. PVE is. But NOT PVP.

[CrimsonDuskEU]

Gear give you advantage, which can be overcome with skill. PVP is versatile, and unlike PVE you pick up merely by knowing your class rotations, PVP is hard to master. Skillcap is important in PVP. Here is my gear : http://bnscoffee.com/character/EU/crimsondusk

(600AP)

 

 

Since some ppl seem to ask my 1V1 rating, top 30 with 20W3L

 

[Draelth]

Good for you! But oh my...

[DirectorTseng]

Right.. that's why a 700 WL face rolls everyone in 2 hits even those running full Naksun or challanger SS

[CrimsonDuskEU]

8 minutes ago, DirectorTseng said:

Right.. that's why a 700 WL face rolls everyone in 2 hits even those running full Naksun or challanger SS

Apparently they don't faceroll me. Just learn to play.

[DirectorTseng]

3 minutes ago, CrimsonDuskEU said:

Apparently they don't faceroll me. Just learn to play.

Nice jump right to 'learn to play', there isn't much you can do if you're dead before you even target them. I watched two 700+ WL faceroll an entire PT today constantly, many were running high crit def shield.. granted they also some how managed to soul burn back to back..

[Lunakitty]

Not sure how even pve is p2w when 570 AP can do same or even more DPS than some 600-700 characters. AP is merely safety blanket for faster party search.

[QRob]

maybe not perfectly fits into this topic, but shouldn't forget about the 2 bots with 2200 points at the 1st and 2nd place on the 3v3 ranklist, carrying a random  lucky summoner with same high rating. the 4th person is just at 1750-ish ><

[Dad]

I wanna say something but ima just wait and see if they do something or not.

[CrimsonDuskEU]

Can confirm there are some summoner hackers running around even in 6V6, doing 2KK total dmg. Was thinking some hack out or something now I know.

[QRob]

@CrimsonDuskEU
I have just noticed on the picture u posted that it's you CrmsonDusk the blade dancer.
today you invited me to your friendlist, but I didn't remember where i met you and I wanted to whisper you but the system didn't allow.

[CrimsonDuskEU]

55 minutes ago, QRob said:

@CrimsonDuskEU
I have just noticed on the picture u posted that it's you CrmsonDusk the blade dancer.
today you invited me to your friendlist, but I didn't remember where i met you and I wanted to whisper you but the system didn't allow.

Added you from rating ladder since you're in same serv. group.

[CrimsonDuskEU]

2 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

Not sure how even pve is p2w when 570 AP can do same or even more DPS than some 600-700 characters. AP is merely safety blanket for faster party search.

PVE is gear progression. The "pay-to-progress to catch up" is "pay-to-be-ahead". F2P player will never "catch-up" to P2W player no matter how many hours he grinds. Because hepta gems.

On another note, PVE is P2W and matters since running dungeons faster with better gear = earn more gold. Don't bring in the "no they help f2P run faster", whales play with whales.

[Kounat]

This thread lmfao

ANYTHING that uses gear is pay2win, ESPECIALLY if it has a ranking system involved with it.

[DannyInfect]

I have 567 AP with my Summoner and rekt high AP players, only time I get destroyed are the players with around 670+ AP . you're also playing a blade dancer though which has some resists and survival capabilities. but yes , skill matters a ton.

[AlexHuaTian]

Of course its pay to win. In E-sport games there are tier lists and balancing. Classes are constantly balanced every season to make sure no one has an unfair advantaged. Despite how small.

[Solidarius]

5 hours ago, CrimsonDuskEU said:

Gear give you advantage, which can be overcome with skill. PVP is versatile, and unlike PVE you pick up merely by knowing your class rotations, PVP is hard to master. Skillcap is important in PVP.

 

 

Since some ppl seem to ask my 1V1 rating, top 30 with 20W3L

 

The funny thing is I have been told that people can only craft or buy from market the crit defense needed for open world pvp. 

 

can you plez share your SS and what stats are good to fuse for 6v6? Do different classes use diff stats?

 

Iam one of those pve scrubs, but learning how 2 play pvp and enjoying 6v6 :D 

[RainbowDashie]

4 hours ago, CrimsonDuskEU said:

Can confirm there are some summoner hackers running around even in 6V6, doing 2KK total dmg. Was thinking some hack out or something now I know.

if you have 700 ap and some crit deff and sunflower build you wont die so fast and do incredible aoe dmg. 
I have 1kk-2kk dmg done nearly every game. Thats not a hack thats just aoe dmg.

[KzE]

I die in 3sec, dont have time to learn anything :D

[CrimsonDuskEU]

got rank 1 with 600AP, its doable. not p2W.

[Minity SN]

2 persons, same skill, but one is a swiper = the swiper wins.

[Cor]

Stupid thread is stupid, 600ap is not low and no matter how much you have you still die fast if you have no crit def. You have 600ap and 48% crit def that is way better stats than most people have. That rank1 also means nothing considering the season just started you can get that by just playing alot, especially since most people just do a few matches to get their dailies done and don't care about the ranking. Come back when you have rank1 at the end of the season then you can talk, not like it matters though because your example is bs anyway since your gear is far from bad. People who really have bad gear won't be able to scratch someone with insane crit def, skill only helps as long the gear gap is within a certain threshold.

 

Being able to outperfrom better equiped players with skill also has nothing to do with whether pay2win exists or not. When someone buys their 700ap 75% crit def gear and can beat all the badly geared chars that are outside the gear gap were you can still make up for it with skill then it's pay2win since he is only able to do that since he paid for it, period.

[SayhaSeer]

GEEZ, I see in Faction Chat P2W P2W P2W Discussions, Forums again P2W P2W P2W...
Pay 2 Win Means Being involved in able to purchase something that normal non-paying players would not have access to, and which gives paying players a tangible gameplay advantage.. Your Pay 2 win is more like paying 2 Progress faster..., Lets say A paying-player buys a legendary stage 10 Weapon, Which cannot be obtained in game YET, That would make him/her a Pay 2 WIN Player, because a Non-paying player, wouldn't have acess to it... When do people realize that, in their thickhead?

[Provois]

1 hour ago, SayhaSeer said:

GEEZ, I see in Faction Chat P2W P2W P2W Discussions, Forums again P2W P2W P2W...
Pay 2 Win Means Being involved in able to purchase something that normal non-paying players would not have access to, and which gives paying players a tangible gameplay advantage.. Your Pay 2 win is more like paying 2 Progress faster..., Lets say A paying-player buys a legendary stage 10 Weapon, Which cannot be obtained in game YET, That would make him/her a Pay 2 WIN Player, because a Non-paying player, wouldn't have acess to it... When do people realize that, in their thickhead?

I wonder what some guys try to reach if they try to defend Ncsoft for the p2w accusation? This definition is kinda outdated and the publisher are aware of this so they made it theoretical all reachable for f2p's but in reality the effort is this hight that not even nolife 24/7 player can reach it (e.g 750ap+ with everything max and all heptagonal ap gems). So the situation remains the same as if they do p2w like your definition. The definitive has basically evolve because of this (at last for the most non whale player). But at the end it doesn't rly matter if we call it p2win, p2progress or p2whatever because it makes the problem itself not a single bit better and the discussion about this is just pointless. 

[oOnyXo]

LMFAO I love how ppl try to defend P2W with the token title "Pay to progress"

 

In this game it amounts to exactly the same fuking thing sto trying to hide behind some BS and actually admit you will whale to try and win, which I find laughable :)

[Hire De Lune]

Most 6v6 battles are steamrolls, so what rank you are largely depends on how much battles you've played.

 

For 6v6, you need good ss, decent AP, and hongmoon skills. With too low AP, you'll simply never kill a maxed out destroyer no matter how long you cc him. Unless you get more than 1 person attacking him. Most of 6v6 is based on positioning and party placement- by having 2 people on 1 guy, you're just wasting time, while they have an extra guy to capture a brazier. If one team has 5 pros and the other team has 2 pros, the team with 2 pros will have their best players held up against 2-3 people while 1 pro from the 5 pro team can handle all 4 other members.

 

Another part of 6v6 is class makeup. Summoners can get away with low stats, same with forcemasters, soulfighters, and bladedancers. As long as you have crit defense (some summoners I've seen don't even). Other classes without group utility have to play better to have the same impact in an encounter. Summoners can grapple, then when the tab escape is used, the bd can restrain and the victim melts in a few seconds. FMs can AoE a group of people and sheath their own teammates, while soulfighters can heal and revive while staying alive the entire fight. 

 

So is it pay to win? Probably not. A free to play player with Challenger SS and 660 AP can do as well as a 750 AP whale, given knowledge of their class and 6v6 strategies. Gear does play a difference, but free to play players can reach the high end and stand toe to toe with a whale. Also, most whales I know play enough that their skill is above the competent player, so it is also skilled based. Any whale that doesn't know how to pvp will be demolished in this gamemode by those who do- in a few seconds.