Faline

Your thoughts on DPS meter so far?

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Grimoir   

Well.....

 

given the meter isnt as bad as i thought it would be still .... Dont really like it. People ignore mechanics for a rat race and then whine and complain if the party wipes cause they were too focused on the numbers instead of whats actually happening.

 

also... If you want to have the meter for dummies at mushin shouldnt those be reworked ?

they are lvl 45 which makes your skills/ crit have a higher effect than what it normally would be or not ?

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Shiune   
10 hours ago, InstantDeath said:

So far it helped me a lot. I always said that Assassin's DPS wasn't that good and my guildmates made fun of me. Now even a BM can outdps an assassin.

Beside the fact that BM's hit like trucks now I do 24k on 670 AP without a WL or grab class. 

 

SIN dps not so good hurr durr. 

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Zuzu   

Seems fine to me. I mean, I rarely pay attention to it since I'm more worried about living instead of dishing out "top" dps as a KFM.

Though it is funny seeing people completely ignore mechanics or simply dodging the boss's attacks just to get more dps off.

Because NA = bigger numbers = must be better than everyone.

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1 hour ago, Shiune said:

Beside the fact that BM's hit like trucks now I do 24k on 670 AP without a WL or grab class. 

 

SIN dps not so good hurr durr. 

Say whatever you want, my guildmates moked me the same way before. Now they are all convinced that Sin is mid tear dps class.

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Shiune   
10 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

Say whatever you want, my guildmates moked me the same way before. Now they are all convinced that Sin is mid tear dps class.

Not my fault that your guildmates are shitty sins. 

 

And if SIN is mid tier what is high tier? 

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6 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Not my fault that your guildmates are shitty sins. 

 

And if SIN is mid tier what is high tier? 

FYI we did 3 times desolate tomb, yes we are shitty players ^^

FM,Summoner and suprisingly BM

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Shiune   
7 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

FYI we did 3 times desolate tomb, yes we are shitty players ^^

FM,Summoner and suprisingly BM

With summoner you just dig your own grave because they are AT MAX mid tier after the latest patch. 

 

SF, WL, SIN - any of those classes are stronger than summoners currently. 

Edited by Shiune

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Shadovvv   
11 hours ago, InstantDeath said:

So far it helped me a lot. I always said that Assassin's DPS wasn't that good and my guildmates made fun of me. Now even a BM can outdps an assassin.

There's no denying that BMs literally shot up to FM tier damage.

 

However, do any of you realize how much improvements Sins received? No? Then stop devaluing us.

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11 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

There's no denying that BMs literally shot up to FM tier damage.

 

However, do any of you realize how much improvements Sins received? No? Then stop devaluing us.

The are only 2 improvements that i see ;
1- Moving Stump to TAB so that you won't hit grounded target with it instead of Dark Strike / Lightning Pierce
2- You no longer need to land a critical hit with Heartstab to use Lightning Pierce
But they also nerfed the sh1t out of Mist Slash.

I'm not complaining about assassin's skill update. But when a BM outdps a Sin, i have a problem with that :)

19 minutes ago, Shiune said:

With summoner you just dig your own grave because they are AT MAX mid tier after the latest patch. 

 

SF, WL, SIN - any of those classes are stronger than summoners currently. 

This is what i've experienced so far with the new update;

High Tier : FM,WL,BM,Summoner ( in this order )
Mid Tier : SF, Assassin, KFM
Low Tier : Destroyer, BD ( I'm not sure about these two classes because my guildmates play for the team and they always grab the boss )

Korean producers must also think the same way, because they buffed sin on 17th

 

Assassin

  • Awakened Dark Strike - Damage increased
  • Awakened Dark Strike - Changed 'Generates 1 Focus on critical hit' to 'Generates 2 Focus'
  • Awakened Lightning Pierce - Damage increased
  • Awakened Lightning Pierce - Changed 'Generates 1 Focus' to 'Generates 2 Focus'
  • Bolt Strike - Cannot move or use a counter to cancel before applying damage
Edited by InstantDeath

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Shadovvv   
19 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

The are only 2 improvements that i see ;
1- Moving Stump to TAB so that you won't hit grounded target with it instead of Dark Strike / Lightning Pierce
2- You no longer need to land a critical hit with Heartstab to use Lightning Pierce
But they also nerfed the sh1t out of Mist Slash.

Nope, there's way more.

  • Lots more poison stacking to the point where it's virtually impossible for poison to fall off.
  • No more skill trigger conditions to lower Hook Kick and Shadow Drain cooldown.
  • Mist Slash is not a nerf except for PvP but it's very minor. It means a smoother animation cancel with Shadow RB > LB > F; LB crit means F instead of needing to reuse RB.
  • Better focus management with halved cooldown on Lightning Rod.
  • FM 2x Joint Stun and Daze/Knockdown. Also means we sacrifice next to nothing to get our CCs and don't have to go into all those overwhelming conditions.
  • Massive damage on Bombard and Flash Kick to the point where an Anti-Trash Mob, Anti-Summoner, and Anti-Assassin build are viable.
  • Quality of life PvP changes with a few compensated nerfs.

Tl;dr, lots more damage uptime.

Edited by Shadovvv

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Bim404   

so lets have some fun, now what's the ranking ?

Something like FM / BM / WL / SIN / SF / SUM/ BD / KFM /DES ?

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Shiune   
7 hours ago, InstantDeath said:

The are only 2 improvements that i see ;
1- Moving Stump to TAB so that you won't hit grounded target with it instead of Dark Strike / Lightning Pierce
2- You no longer need to land a critical hit with Heartstab to use Lightning Pierce
But they also nerfed the sh1t out of Mist Slash.

I'm not complaining about assassin's skill update. But when a BM outdps a Sin, i have a problem with that :)

This is what i've experienced so far with the new update;

High Tier : FM,WL,BM,Summoner ( in this order )
Mid Tier : SF, Assassin, KFM
Low Tier : Destroyer, BD ( I'm not sure about these two classes because my guildmates play for the team and they always grab the boss )

1.  Mist Slash got BUFFED and any sin which says smth different is a bad sin to begin with 

2. Poison stacking methods got buffed - 100% uptime on the dark build rotation is easier than ever

3.  we get a lot of of damage buffs like poison breath (instacast), lighting stride (tons of damage + poison reset), fighting spirit 300% dmg of AP instead of 100%

4. our focus management improved a lot because of lower cd on 4 lighting rend. 

 

We got buffed by a ton and you actually have no clue about what you're writing (your guildmates obviously aren't any better). 

 

Change summoner with SIN and you'll list might wouldn't even be so wrong. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Nope, there's way more.

  • Lots more poison stacking to the point where it's virtually impossible for poison to fall off.
  • No more skill trigger conditions to lower Hook Kick and Shadow Drain cooldown.
  • Smoother animation cancel with Shadow RB > LB > F; LB crit means F instead of needing to reuse RB.
  • FM 2x Joint Stun and Daze/Knockdown. Also means we sacrifice next to nothing to get our CCs and don't have to go into all those overwhelming conditions.
  • Massive damage on Bombard and Flash Kick to the point where an Anti-Trash Mob, Anti-Summoner, and Anti-Assassin build are viable.
  • Quality of life PvP changes with a few compensated nerfs.

Tl;dr, lots more damage uptime.

I loved those 2 joint CCs, it was a pain to CC the boss before, but when i told you there were only 2 improvements, i was only considering damage-wise. But i have to disagree on Mist Slash, i literally feel the difference between Crit and non-Crit mist slash.

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Shiune   
6 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

. But i have to disagree on Mist Slash, i literally feel the difference between Crit and non-Crit mist slash.

Ok you just proved me that you're a bad sin. 

 

Thanks and i'm out of the discussion. 

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6 hours ago, Shiune said:

1.  Mist Slash got BUFFED and any sin which says smth different is a bad sin to begin with 

2. Poison stacking methods got buffed - 100% uptime on the dark build rotation is easier than ever

3.  we get a lot of of damage buffs like poison breath (instacast), lighting stride (tons of damage + poison reset), fighting spirit 300% dmg of AP instead of 100%

4. our focus management improved a lot because of lower cd on 4 lighting rend. 

 

We got buffed by a ton and you actually have no clue about what you're writing (your guildmates obviously aren't any better). 

 

Change summoner with SIN and you'll list might wouldn't even be so wrong. 

 

1- How is removing nearly 100% crit chance considered as a buff?
2- Can't argue on that,
3- Can't see the difference between 100% and 300% damage, i still have the same damage.
4- Can't say the same for Lightning build.

I'll stick with my list, time will show who's right and who's wrong.

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Shadovvv   
20 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

11- How is removing nearly 100% crit chance considered as a buff?
3- Can't see the difference between 100% and 300% damage, i still have the same damage.
4- Can't say the same for Lightning build.

1. Dark Strike deals more damage than Heart Stab and Mist Slash. As such, ideally you want more Dark Strikes being flushed out than Heart Stab or Mist Slash.

  • Dark Strike has an attack power modifier of 6.00 base + 2.00 5x poison stacks + 1.00 stunned/dazed targets = 9.00 total.
  • Mist Slash has an attack power modifier of 1.30 base + 0.30 stunned/dazed targets = 1.60 total.
  • Heart Stab has an attack power modifier of 4.50 base + 0.50 5x poison stacks = 5.00 total.
  • Before Change: If Heart Stab did not crit, but Mist Slash did, Heart Stab would need to be used again in order to use Dark Strike.
  • After Change: If Heart Stab did not crit, but Mist Slash did, Dark Strike can be used immediately. It's faster and more efficient with Dark Strike than needing to use Heart Stab in between.

3. Fighting Spirit bonus is Attack Power as Additional Damage, as in the number of AP listed on your stats gets converted into AD when using Dark Strike, Lightning Pierce, and Lightning Rod. Example, you have 500 AP, the AP -> AD modifier is 3x, and your Dark Strike does 10k damage; each hit of Dark Strike deals (500 x 3) + 10k = 11,500. It's small, but over time it adds up.

4. Lightning is no longer RNG with Pierce and Crash. That means Lightning Rod's CD is always reduced by 3/6 seconds per Lightning rotation. With higher 5x poison uptime that -6 sec should almost always occur.

 

Assassin

  • Awakened Dark Strike - Damage increased
  • Awakened Dark Strike - Changed 'Generates 1 Focus on critical hit' to 'Generates 2 Focus'
  • Awakened Lightning Pierce - Damage increased
  • Awakened Lightning Pierce - Changed 'Generates 1 Focus' to 'Generates 2 Focus'
  • Bolt Strike - Cannot move or use a counter to cancel before applying damage

Actually everyone got significant improvements to Awakened skills (except Force Master maybe?), not just Assassins.

 

Bolt Strike is quality of life, because they originally intended it to be uncancellable in this update, so it's awkward to even move during its use.

Edited by Shadovvv

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1 hour ago, Shiune said:

1. Dark Strike deals more damage than Heart Stab and Mist Slash. As such, ideally you want more Dark Strikes being flushed out than Heart Stab or Mist Slash.

  • Dark Strike has an attack power modifier of 6.00 base + 2.00 5x poison stacks + 1.00 stunned/dazed targets = 9.00 total.
  • Mist Slash has an attack power modifier of 1.30 base + 0.30 stunned/dazed targets = 1.60 total.
  • Heart Stab has an attack power modifier of 4.50 base + 0.50 5x poison stacks = 5.00 total.
  • Before Change: If Heart Stab did not crit, but Mist Slash did, Heart Stab would need to be used again in order to use Dark Strike.
  • After Change: If Heart Stab did not crit, but Mist Slash did, Dark Strike can be used immediately. It's faster and more efficient with Dark Strike than needing to use Heart Stab in between.

Nice explanation but you missed a point; Heartstab animation can be cancelled and is faster than Dark Strike. So, a basic crit LMB>RMB>F combo would take the same time as new LMB>F combo does. I'm not even talking about Heartstab HM, think about that. If you don't know about that, you must be a really bad sin.

Edited by InstantDeath

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TecoTek   

Just make it like that, when someone grabs the boss every dmg dealt on him will be counted as dmg by the person who grabbed it :D

 

Much grabs incoming :3

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Shiune   

I'll explain it to you again:

 

Basic combo is RB+LMB+F which even you should know. 

 

Now before with HM mist slash you could crit with RMB if you crit with LMB before which allows you cast F after. 

 

Now if you did the basic rotation with RB+LMB+F and didn't crit the first RB but crit with LMB you had to cast RMB again to pull out F. 

In a clear sentence: If you didn't crit with RMB before your rotation would look like this: RMB+LMB+RMB+F. 

 

Now that a LMB crit allows us to pull out F instantly without casting RMB again you have 2 chances to proc F in 1 rotation. 

Means if your first RB didn't crit but your LMB crit you could cast F anyway instead of going for another RMB before. 

 

If you you still didn't understand this you can't be helped. 

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6 hours ago, Shiune said:

I'll explain it to you again:

 

Basic combo is RB+LMB+F which even you should know. 

 

Now before with HM mist slash you could crit with RMB if you crit with LMB before which allows you cast F after. 

 

Now if you did the basic rotation with RB+LMB+F and didn't crit the first RB but crit with LMB you had to cast RMB again to pull out F. 

In a clear sentence: If you didn't crit with RMB before your rotation would look like this: RMB+LMB+RMB+F. 

 

Now that a LMB crit allows us to pull out F instantly without casting RMB again you have 2 chances to proc F in 1 rotation. 

Means if your first RB didn't crit but your LMB crit you could cast F anyway instead of going for another RMB before. 

 

If you you still didn't understand this you can't be helped. 



Not critical RMB>LBM>RMB>F combo takes less time than LMB>F>RMB>F, a lot less. Try only using LMB>F and you'll see how slow it is. If you can't understand this, you can't be helped.

 

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Shiune   
4 hours ago, InstantDeath said:


Not critical RMB>LBM>RMB>F combo takes less time than LMB>F>RMB>F, a lot less. Try only using LMB>F and you'll see how slow it is. If you can't understand this, you can't be helped.


 

Wow even after 2 explanations you still don't understand it. 

 

Really now I'm out. 

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Napping   
16 hours ago, Faline said:

How does everyone feel about it so far?

 

Personally, I was dreading it coming, and that dread has turned out right. I'm gonna be honest, i'm not some pro amazing player, but I always do my best and I always felt like I contributed as much as I could. Since the meter came it's all about numbers, not mechanics (if I grab...hey guess what I am gonna slip down that meter..) and i'm made to feel like I haven't contributed..or I get pity from other players, which I hate >.< hnngg. I am the sorta person who will stick with a game I like for a very long time, pour time and cash into it to support it....but I am being made to feel like I don't want to do one part of the game that I enjoy most..PVE. So..yes, I feel like quitting right now..I feel like all this time and effort i've put into this lil' LBD is all to waste because i'm made to look like a scrub by this damn meter.

 

Anyhow, DPS meter vs Overall Damage done argument..Damage done actually tells you how much of an impact you had. Your overall damage that you did as a % on that bosses HP. DPS is only counting the time that you are actually on the boss.  It shouldn't be all about who can burn all their cooldowns in 30seconds, throw down a huge amount of DPS and then get killed - give me players that can stay alive and do more actual overall damage to the boss. Total damage done>DPS imo.

 

 

inb4 git gud comment - don't give me that, I play well enough, with +200ms ping usually too and I can still hold my own. 

WHAT? I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you bothered by your low rank on the dps meter? If so, close it. Are you bothered because you're given more info?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

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Grimoir   
3 hours ago, Shiune said:

With summoner you just dig your own grave because they are AT MAX mid tier after the latest patch. 

 

SF, WL, SIN - any of those classes are stronger than summoners currently. 

Actually as a summoner does way more damage than a SF / WL and Sin if he uses all his rotations properly.

Apart from the standard Sunflower or Bees build depending on preference, with the new extra damage on DOT skills (Petal Toss, Doom n Bloom, Bleed, Poison) it adds up to way more than you think. Especially the 550% Attack power boost on bees which lets you crit for 24k+ (Its not additional damage but actual damage of the skill)

 

@Napping

 

He isnt bothered by the meter as much as by the other players who talk shit and look only on "damage" done and not on actual party contribution.

He might be last one on the list, but because he grabbed the boss and sacrificed his dps time, the others could deal more dps.

Edited by Grimoir

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Talinoth   

Personally, I think the dps meter in 4 man has been really educational.

 

FYI, I'm a Force Master with 687 AP. I usually lead, but this one time in a 4 man Lair run I got outdps'ed by a Warlock with 610 AP.

 

Dude was SUCH A BADASS!

- I did 13-14k/sec damage on average. 37k/sec damage during Soulburn, 18k/sec avg damage in fights where Soulburn was used.

- WL did 14-15k/sec damage on average. 34k/sec damage during Soulburn. 19k/sec avg damage when Soulburn was used in a fight.

 

I HAD NO CLUE WARLOCKS WERE SO STRONG! Were they always this good, and I never just noticed because so many of their abilities lower threat?

 

PS: If you also consider that his team damage contribution was way higher (he was the one casting Soulburn after all), I got totally outperformed by a Warlock who had spent thousands of gold less on their gear.

Edited by Talinoth

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