Bee Vs Sunflower Comparison Thread

[tannerru2]

Please post results here

Use Mushin Floor 5 as test

Kill it with bees

Kill with with Sunflower

Use the format below please.

 

687 AP, 60.12% crit, 212.89% crit damage

Round 1:

Bees = 19,961

Sunflower = 22,652

 

Round 2:

Bees = 20,851

Sunflower = 23,380

 

Round 3:

Bees = 19,975

Sunflower = 21,238

[Grimoir]

Did you count in:

 

- damage done from petal toss

- damage done from doom n bloom

- Tier of bees? 550% extra damage upon stealth?

- Use of briar patch

[achimo1390]

for now with this crit rate. i think sunflower still better than Bees,maybe wait till we got like 70-80% crit rate

and for ppl who hate sunflower and love Bee's build. damage of sunflower will be decreased on next patch

its coming soon so enjoy your sunflower build :)

[tannerru]

-Petal storm toss was used on both builds

-Doom and bloom on both builds

-s1, t5 bees 

-Briar path s3, t3 Used on both

[Grimoir]

4 hours ago, achimo1390 said:

for now with this crit rate. i think sunflower still better than Bees,maybe wait till we got like 70-80% crit rate

and for ppl who hate sunflower and love Bee's build. damage of sunflower will be decreased on next patch

its coming soon so enjoy your sunflower build :)

Crit rate doesnt matter since rosethorn lets us instant cast bees on hit (not crit hit, just a hit)

 

1 hour ago, tannerru said:

-Petal storm toss was used on both builds

-Doom and bloom on both builds

-s1, t5 bees 

-Briar path s3, t3 Used on both

Why have you used t1s5 bees? Floor 5 of mushin is a bad comparison considering the crit buff you get there. You can use S3t5 bees

[Niskka]

where's your rotation with briar patch and rose toss? plus now you can do more dmg with bees when boss if effected by thorn's pioson and what of stealth for the 550% with rumble bees? my friend you are worried about flat dmg than actually using a rotation to uppity the dmg for both skills. and plz, fight naksun instead of floor 5 you'll have a better results in a longer fight than floor 5 hmm hmmm

[Bits]

I did my testing on soloing Jiangshi in 4man necro, rather than in Mushin, because I wanted longer parses and mobs with higher defense.

 

I tested s3t5 bees, s1t5 bees and sunflower, using s1t3 flying nettles each time, and doing no cc. My rotation was basically LMB RMB and keeping 3 (petal storm toss), 2 (s1t2 thorn strike), 1 (s2t2), flying nettles and Doom n Bloom on cd (obviously with endless RMB spam for saturation).

 

Sunflower out-performed everything else, with 22k-23k even on parses when I messed up and got knocked down for a sec. s1t5 bees came in second, average 21k, best 22,480. S3t5 is a horrible distant third, best ever was 17k, and I had to stand in melee the whole time making dodging and general play much more difficult without the faster iframes melee classes have.

s3t5 bees is horribly disappointing, in order to cancel the cast time of bees you have to be point blank range and still attack incredibly slowly.

 

For me, using s3t3 flying nettles, even with sunflower (which is focus starved without it) was a DPS loss. It makes life easier, but it was a loss of DPS overall, compared to paying attention and throwing rosethorns into my saturation sunflower spam when needed. This is probably not the case with people with a lower level weapon, who don't regen focus as much.

It's possible that bees will be better for people who don't have enough focus regen on their weapon to get the most out of sunflower.

 

I'm using stage 4 baleful staff, 706ap.

Just to be clear, these were the results of my testing for me. I have no idea if it will be the same for anyone else, there's a lot of variables. I don't recommend using Naksun to test on, he does way too many ccs/combos etc, and uptime is a huge variable in parses, you need a target you can hammer constantly.

[RainbowDashie]

6 hours ago, Bits said:

I did my testing on soloing Jiangshi in 4man necro, rather than in Mushin, because I wanted longer parses and mobs with higher defense.

Maybe first Boss Laby would be a better idea, Jiangshi didnt hit often enough to counter it with 4, so we cant get the s3t5 boost often enough.

[Bits]

7 hours ago, RainbowDashie said:

Maybe first Boss Laby would be a better idea, Jiangshi didnt hit often enough to counter it with 4, so we cant get the s3t5 boost often enough.

Naryu Lab doesn't have a 4man mode, thus no meter.

 

EDIT:

 

After reading what someone wrote in another thread about needing to move to cast cancel s3 bees, I ran a test with s3t5 bees again - this time I came up easily 21-22k range, while constantly moving. It was jiangshi so I didn't get an opportunity to use HM seed shroud more than once.

I'll do more testing with it vs sunflower, and with it with s1t3 nettles and s3t3 nettles, since it suffers badly from focus starve.

[Nattia]

long story short, sunflower is still better. I'm going to cry when they nerf it, I get 14k dps with bees and petal storm toss:/

[Niskka]

I like how i am able to keep on dpsing with bees compare to sunflower. Sunflower too me starve so much focus away and you'll have to use your doom and bloom and brair at the right moment for that fast focus recovery. When i'm using bees, i don't starve so much on focus and i can keep on dps'ing non-stop even the attack speed on rose thorn for bees is soo fast you can build up focus back up compare to the rose thorn for sunflower

 

so in my own case and in my own opinion  

 

Speed/dot/barely focus starve/+550% dmg for bees and extra dmg with rose toss top that more dmg with pioson ivory(love that now) > focus starve/slow cast to build up focus/using skills more wisely when sunflower overflow hits/ Use doom and bloom wisely when overflow hits in addtion briar patch for focus recovery. 

 

briar patch for focus recovery works well for both if the bosses doesn't move so much that is and actually have a good tank that can keep them in place but again you'll have to either use pin with your cat or doom n bloom to activate it Plus it is wind dmg compare to stage 1 which does earth dmg and more extra dmg when it hits someone that is standing in it and the tick dmg get that extra dmg multiple times

 

at first i wasn't too excited about the bees build but once i had figure out how to build it and compare it to my sunflower build i think i like the fast quickness of building up dps than flat out dmg and worrying if i shouldn't waste doom and bloom for not only focus recovery but hp recovery despite our new healing skill which also focus on the party not just ourselves.

 

Yet it is up to each own, some may like sunflower some may like bees better, it depends how you want to build your summoner and what build you feel is comfortable with. before this patch and whenever i get on my a bit undergeared FM i have seen a couple of bees using summoners and they did just fine of what they need to do and still be able to out dps some people in the party(when they pull aggro off of someone on bosses) so really it depends how you want to set yourself up and see how you benefit towards the party i.e learn the mech in dungs over worrying about dps. Dps will come along the way as you get familiar with the dung to know what skills help with each fight.  

[tannerru]

I like bees, but I will not settle for the lower dps spec haha.

I changed to nettles left tree, and gained 2k more dps a second compared to my first runs. Never focus starved, never have to pay attention, just spam :P (sunflower)

[RainbowDashie]

3 hours ago, tannerru said:

I like bees, but I will not settle for the lower dps spec haha.

I changed to nettles left tree, and gained 2k more dps a second compared to my first runs. Never focus starved, never have to pay attention, just spam :P (sunflower)

if u have lmb hm skil its hard to go out of focus if you just spam lmb and rmb simultaneously

[Nattia]

I would love to love bees but it's much lower dps in my current gear. Summoners from CN version benefit from the changes more, we cannot cast bees 3rd row without being slow. This gal basically spams bees stage 3 without problem, it's super fast :) we cannot do that yet...

 

[Moha]

58 minutes ago, Nattia said:

I would love to love bees but it's much lower dps in my current gear. Summoners from CN version benefit from the changes more, we cannot cast bees 3rd row without being slow. This gal basically spams bees stage 3 without problem, it's super fast :) we cannot do that yet...

 

Has anyone been able to use S3T5 Bees like her in the video? cuz im really struggling with it, it could be just me because of my 160-200ms ping tho..

[RainbowDashie]

45 minutes ago, Moha said:

Has anyone been able to use S3T5 Bees like her in the video? cuz im really struggling with it, it could be just me because of my 160-200ms ping tho..

5476 Crit means 58.66% and im not able to anicancel s3t5 bees like that, i have to stay in melee and move constantly to get to interrupt cast time. 
Maybe they have something else on lmb that is with crit, or did s3t5 did a crit cast too? If i noticed right they doesnt and that means that crit also would be irelevant.

[Nattia]

35 minutes ago, RainbowDashie said:

5476 Crit means 58.66% and im not able to anicancel s3t5 bees like that, i have to stay in melee and move constantly to get to interrupt cast time. 
Maybe they have something else on lmb that is with crit, or did s3t5 did a crit cast too? If i noticed right they doesnt and that means that crit also would be irelevant.

nope, and people in the comments cannot copy her skill usage too [na/eu ppl] even with higher crit. it must be something with their gear. maybe some attack speed bonus in the soulshield /other gear 

[tannerru]

Moha, Yes :)

I was using  T3 in 6v6 and its amazing. All you have to do is move for the lmb/rmb t3 bees to be spammed :) Give it a shot.

(Take in mind, you speed will very one ping)

[tannerru]

 

 

[RainbowDashie]

6 hours ago, Nattia said:

nope, and people in the comments cannot copy her skill usage too [na/eu ppl] even with higher crit. it must be something with their gear. maybe some attack speed bonus in the soulshield /other gear 

Rosethorn (LB)
– Tier 4 Stage 1: the effect of “Rumblebees can be cast instantly on crit” is changed to “Rumblebees can be cast instantly on hit”
– Tier 5 Stage 1: the effect of “Rumblebees can be cast instantly on crit” is changed to “Rumblebees can be cast instantly on use”

 

http://www.freedomplays.com/blade-soul-kr-soulburn-awakened-skill-changes/#more-9551

 

i realy think that is the reason.

[Nattia]

5 minutes ago, RainbowDashie said:

Rosethorn (LB)
– Tier 4 Stage 1: the effect of “Rumblebees can be cast instantly on crit” is changed to “Rumblebees can be cast instantly on hit”
– Tier 5 Stage 1: the effect of “Rumblebees can be cast instantly on crit” is changed to “Rumblebees can be cast instantly on use”

 

http://www.freedomplays.com/blade-soul-kr-soulburn-awakened-skill-changes/#more-9551

 

i realy think that is the reason.

so we just didn't get this part of the update. and it comes with the sunflower damage nerf. all clear

[tannerru]

Yea if you notice their rose changes from "on hit" to "on use" You can still spam at a decent rate. I am re uploading my video as we speak due to lag making the results seem off.

[Raizou]

@tannerru

 

When i use bees t5s3 i have a cast time of 2.5 sec, but you used it instantly.

 

So with your explanation: " All you have to do is move for the lmb/rmb t3 bees to be spammed ", i just have to run as if stung by a mosquito and i can spam the bees like you?

 

Edit:

 

Can you also write the rotation which you used in the video?

 

I have seen: Petal storm (blue) + 1 + Doom n´Bloom but then it go very quick :/

[tannerru]

Sorta,

Use the left tree of rosethorn that makes bees instant cast. (If you try this without moving, you have to attack really slow)

If you are moving, its just spam :)

 

For t3

I start fight with 3,2,1

Than I throw up doom and bloom / briar

Than spam left click, right click while moving

Keep, 3,2 ,1 up and you are good.

This video is an example, if you want to keep more focus, space doom and briar around 5 secs apart.

[Raizou]

Allright thank you very much :D