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Jhii

Sum up the class changes if possible

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Jhii   

http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/desolate-tomb-overview-patch-notes/

Can Someone Sum Up aka, Explain in a short notice of the class changes of the following classes:

Kfm

Destro

Sin

WL

last but not least, SF, didn't understand the part of "Golden dragon"

we'll barely be able to stack 2 if possible, or does the golden dragon's duration stay for too long?

 

 

Been thinking of maining KFM since i really like the class but his position in the DPS ladder was so low,

 

Nutshell em please <3

Edited by Jhii

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7XVe   

I'm a destroyer so:

 

Willpower buff changed to instantly max buff, but 15 seconds. Wrath gets 3 seconds on activation, speed increased.

HM skills for cleave and Eradicate added, debuffed version. Original version remains the same.

Eradicate speed increased.

Grab stage 2 & 3 get restrain, but CD increased to 30 seconds.

Z Taunt works in any condition now.

Execute CD is now 30s.

The spintowin Typhoon stun does not work on bosses.

 

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Zuzu   

KFM:

Threat % lasts longer on Counter and RMB.

Some skills have wind path now making it more viable to go into Wind build and keeping up your Searing Palm stacks.

Faster animation on Awakened Searing Palm.

Can spec into SS now if you want an extra movespeed buff with 8s CD still.

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Shadovvv   

Assassin:

  • More ways to apply poison stacks.
  • Joint Double Stun/Daze/Knockdown (applies 2x CC instantly from one skill).
  • Party Protect Decoy converted into Summoner's Enhanced Dandelion and moved into main self-protect tree.
  • Stealth convenience with some base cooldown reduction rather than relying on certain other skills to reduce cooldown.
  • More damage uptime on Lightning build.
  • Potential damage increase on Shadow build but uses more focus overall.

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Jhii   

So, Destro didn't get much of a buff, more like "fix-ish"
 

KFM has more viable ways to keep his Searing palm stacks

 

and SIN got buffed on more of the stealth aspect? 

 

it's good? i guess.. but w/e ty.

 

Anyone can explain SF and the golden dragon?

Edited by Jhii

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Vyzardo   

Destro did get a buff. 

You can now use a smaller Mighty Cleave without Asura's Ember. 

Also, Shadow build with Eradicate and Execute just got viable thanks to Willpower buffs. 

Though, you NEED Asura's Ember for Shadow build since Galeforce is absolutely necessary for DPS. 

Maybe you also need the Mystic Badge for Galeforce CD reduction on Eradicate crit. 

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Donthink   

As i see changes on destro the only one that matters is grab, and it's cooldown increase nerfs destro performance. Changes on skills like execute(down), eradicate(up), will power(up) are not important as no one use them anyway because they would replace more important skills( in that order) smash, cleave, typhoon with stun. Tho still need to see live what that new "restrain" thingie do and how wrath will do and if that's a poo too when destro to sum it up, goes down in performance.

 

Quick look at sin changes (got alt on it so looked a bit at his changes too) suggests that it will perform even better and will go up up up and even more up as cooldowns goes down, damage increases. Definitely we will see increased number of sins because of this update.

Edited by Donthink

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Vyzardo   

Is that all you see? Up, up, up, down, down? 

Read my post. Destros got a decent buff. 

Also, restrain works like this: DES/LBM grabs boss, you spam your restraint skill since it does most damage. Done. 

And no one used Execute/Eradicate because almost no one has HM RMB and Shadow build was kinda shit before this patch. 

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Donthink   
44 minutes ago, Vyzardo said:

Is that all you see? Up, up, up, down, down? 

Read my post. Destros got a decent buff. 

Also, restrain works like this: DES/LBM grabs boss, you spam your restraint skill since it does most damage. Done. 

And no one used Execute/Eradicate because almost no one has HM RMB and Shadow build was kinda shit before this patch. 

well to be sure still need to see and feel it live but as much as i would want that you would be right, thinking of on paper changes doesn't seem like a buff at all. For example if you take grab with restrain you get 30 sec cooldown, in the shattered mast that would mean that you will be able to grab boss every 2nd rush as grab still would be on cd for like 3-5 sec, in pvp what would reduce air/slam number. Execute on single enemy doesn't work as good as smash because of cast time, possibility to get interrupted, movement problem. Willpower doesn't exit on stage 2 tier 3 typhoon which is main spec for this skill (at least for me). Eradicate works well on multiple targets but on single ones, which you encounter most of the time (bosses, arena) it does not regen enough focus/got too long cast time to be usable in pair with anicancel (maybe this will change as they state cast time will get shortened) yet still its inferious to cleave damage and hp regeneration.

In other words useless skills got buffed up while usable skills gone down/not changed.

Edited by Donthink

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Sasuke   

Yup KFM is just increased threat and our evasive skills got a cool down reduction. Would make tanking terrors in SSP a lot easier so thank you I guess NCSoft? ^_^

Edited by Sasuke

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Vyzardo   
10 minutes ago, Donthink said:

-snip-

Well, I'll try to explain as best as I can. 

First off, I never said Shadow is better than Earth spec. Just to get this out of the way. 

Second, I said you NEED HM RMB for Shadow Spec, since you need Galeforce for the Chi regeneration. 

Third, Execute (Shadow X) does more damage than Smash (Earth X). It has movement issues, yes, but those can mostly be negated by just holding X, instead of mashing it. 

Fourth, the advantage of Shadow over Earth is that Shadow has more sustained DPS with Eradicate since you can move around with holding RMB and mashing F, while with Earth you have to stand still to ani-cancel. 

Though, I do agree about the 30 seconds on grab, that's kinda bad. 

So, you sum it short, to make Shadow build actually, truly viable in PvE, you NEED HM RMB for Galeforce and a somewhat high crit rate. 

It goes like this -> Press Q once for Willpower, hold RMB, spam F for Galeforce, when Willpower is about to fall off, pop Fury if available and hold X to ensure crit on Execute. Willpower now is refreshed again and the CD on Typhoon will fall off around the same time your Willpower does so you can press Q again for Willpower buff. 

So, in the end, it's still a buff. 

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Jhii   

so, Can someone tell me the new DPS ladder?

like how are they arranged after the buffs/nerfs?

(PvE)(PvB) please :D?

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Midu   

One of the reasons I'm looking forward to DPS meter. As I think Warlock is pretty high in the dps ladder.. Just that it got about the highest non threat contribution of all classes (at least i think it has).

 

I'd put a FM at first spot anytime. After that SIN/WL/SUM then maybe SF and at last BM/KFM/BD

 

But it all really depends how well someone executes his class rotation ^^

 

Anyway since im already on it..

 

WL changes:

Easier double stun cause of joint stun on thrall

Faster Leech and cc immunity <3

 

The rest is not really worth mentioning.

 

Next patch will be huge boost as Soulburn cooldown is down to 1:30 and maybe the awake skill changes come too which will be way powerfull on warlocks.

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Grimoir   
1 minute ago, Midu said:

One of the reasons I'm looking forward to DPS meter. As I think Warlock is pretty high in the dps ladder.. Just that it got about the highest non threat contribution of all classes (at least i think it has).

 

I'd put a FM at first spot anytime. After that SIN/WL/SUM then maybe SF and at last BM/KFM/BD

 

But it all really depends how well someone executes his class rotation ^^

 

Anyway since im already on it..

 

WL changes:

Easier double stun cause of joint stun on thrall

Faster Leech and cc immunity <3

 

The rest is not really worth mentioning.

 

Next patch will be huge boost as Soulburn cooldown is down to 1:30 and maybe the awake skill changes come too which will be way powerfull on warlocks.

On that note....i am not sure but didnt they remove the cd reduction from Soulburn from the patch because its already there on the legendary soulshield?

(maybe i missheard or missunderstood...)

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NightFer   

On the dps scale its nearly the same as before with 1 difference - BM rising in dmg by alot. So its pretty much like this: FM-SIN-BM-Summoner/WL-KFM/SF-destro/LBD. Things will change ONLY after legendary soulshields and elemental accessories.

 

Other than that, the BM changes are HUGE in dps scale giving them more options to not just "block and attack if you can" but more like "dps and block when needed to". I dont need to explain those changes to people who know the class well, the rest have to experience them themselves.
FM changes on the other hand... the only valuable change is the removal of kb/grapple cast of windstorm which bugs me for so long AND the ninja update on the stances you will see after patch and not included in the notes (IF NC decides to implement that extremely powerful ninja update). Other than that, nothing valuable, the restrain skill is the same in concept with the alpha tests from 4 years ago.

Edited by NightFer

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23 minutes ago, NightFer said:

On the dps scale its nearly the same as before with 1 difference - BM rising in dmg by alot. So its pretty much like this: FM-SIN-BM-Summoner/WL-KFM/SF-destro/LBD. Things will change ONLY after legendary soulshields and elemental accessories.

 

Other than that, the BM changes are HUGE in dps scale giving them more options to not just "block and attack if you can" but more like "dps and block when needed to". I dont need to explain those changes to people who know the class well, the rest have to experience them themselves.
FM changes on the other hand... the only valuable change is the removal of kb/grapple cast of windstorm which bugs me for so long AND the ninja update on the stances you will see after patch and not included in the notes (IF NC decides to implement that extremely powerful ninja update). Other than that, nothing valuable, the restrain skill is the same in concept with the alpha tests from 4 years ago.

Can you explain more detailed what ninja update u mean?

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DPS, unless its a massive increase, isn't the main thing for any of the 'tank' classes, threat/agro generation is. They need to add a skill, or add to current ones, +whatever to threat when it's used. There is no way anyone should be pulling agro off ANY tank. I have the worst time with my Sin chasing mobs around due to ping pong agro between casters and the tank. It doesn't help that most casters run around in circles when they get agro.

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BM got on a couple of skills threat increase.

  • Rush (Stage 2) increase Threat by 150% for 10 secs
  • Raid (Tier 3 Stage 1) increase Threat by 150% for 10 secs
  • Fissure (Tier 4 Stage 3) increase Threat by 150% for 10 secs
  • Five Point Strike (Stage 2) increase Threat by 300% (didn't see how long this last probably the same as it is now)
  • Lightning Draw / Searing Slash (4) increase Threat by 300%

 

I think this is a plus

Edited by RDKillerITA

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Raizou   
17 hours ago, Jhii said:

last but not least, SF, didn't understand the part of "Golden dragon"

we'll barely be able to stack 2 if possible, or does the golden dragon's duration stay for too long?

Kingfist / Frost Storm (V)

  • Kingfist and Frost Storm now create a Golden Dragon on the first successful hit.
  •  

Focus Chi (Z)

  • Focus Chi (Tier 4 Stage 1) now increases Critical Damage by an additional 30% for 10 seconds at 3 stacks of Golden Dragon.

Chi Burst (X)

  • Chi Burst (Tier 5 Stage 1) now recovers 40% HP for all party members at 3 stacks of Golden Dragon.
  • Chi Burst (Tier 5 Stage 2) now recovers 20% HP for all party members at 3 stacks of Golden Dragon.

 

But i dont know, if "golden dragon" will stay till Focus Ch and/or Chi Burst are used or if these stacks have a small duration.

 

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6 hours ago, NightFer said:

On the dps scale its nearly the same as before with 1 difference - BM rising in dmg by alot. So its pretty much like this: FM-SIN-BM-Summoner/WL-KFM/SF-destro/LBD. Things will change ONLY after legendary soulshields and elemental accessories.

 

Other than that, the BM changes are HUGE in dps scale giving them more options to not just "block and attack if you can" but more like "dps and block when needed to". I dont need to explain those changes to people who know the class well, the rest have to experience them themselves.
FM changes on the other hand... the only valuable change is the removal of kb/grapple cast of windstorm which bugs me for so long AND the ninja update on the stances you will see after patch and not included in the notes (IF NC decides to implement that extremely powerful ninja update). Other than that, nothing valuable, the restrain skill is the same in concept with the alpha tests from 4 years ago.

Don't think BM will have more damage output than summoner/warlock. We just have to wait and see.

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NightFer   
4 hours ago, KlausFlouride said:

DPS, unless its a massive increase, isn't the main thing for any of the 'tank' classes, threat/agro generation is. They need to add a skill, or add to current ones, +whatever to threat when it's used. There is no way anyone should be pulling agro off ANY tank. I have the worst time with my Sin chasing mobs around due to ping pong agro between casters and the tank. It doesn't help that most casters run around in circles when they get agro.

Wrong builds and not knowing your skills is the reason WHY some BMs and KFMs cant keep aggro on them. BMs already have 2 high threat-generating skills and to be honest, I dont see a reason to put even more of them ( Cyclone increasing threat for 30sec and five-point T3/S2 does 300% threat from the skills dmg). Using those skills is more than enough to hold the aggro for the entire fight no matter if the party members have 100ap more than you.

About the BM being above summoner and warlock in dps scale: without the class soulshield and elemental accessories, summoners do low dmg and WLs just.... do low dmg in general :D. Sorry to ruin your day. BMs dont need those things for massive dmg impact.

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lunaray   

"sorry to ruin your day" BM doesnt come close to summoner and warlock dps. maybe you confusing bm with another class or just trolling.

'

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Bim404   

Getting agro on bm was not simple for a single reason : u need cyclone to do so, and when someone elso agro and burst before you, or worse, inc with cc and grab, it can be hard to get the agro back waiting for a block , or waste your pentaslash to resist an aoe and trigger cyclone, while KFM have threat generation which doesnt need block/counter to be efficient.

If u inc and get insta block/cyclone, then i agree, it's fkn easy to keep agro on 100+ AP ppl.

For dps, fire bm was already pretty good, if this update is a buff, they may be close to sum/wl, very close.

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