Another one bites the dust

[Sogno]

So, I just quit the game after coping for too much for too long.
Here's a quick feedback, my two cents on it and the reason why I finally quit.

Game is good. The combat is awesome and it controls magnifically. It's old and dated, but stil beautiful due to its peculiar art style.

The classes are tons fun. The world and the background are really interesting, and the story is quite good despite being full of tropes and some really bad dialogues/choices. Oh, and the ridiculous, inexcusable, awful politically correct censorship.
I also don't care about hiding outfits into RNG boxes sold in store. Outfits aren't really a big impact on the game. Of course I would prefer not to see them hiden behind yet another rng, but as I see it, it's a good way for ncsoft to make money without resorting to scummy practices. Except... those happened anyway and the game is full p2w.

Everything is plagued by the insane grinding for everything. RNG is bad enough, but weapon/amulets evolutions requirements are insane. Market is *cricket*ed up. The scarcity of some materials is inexcusable, and the way some classes are at a huge disadvantage in farming them is untolerable. The whole Pay2Win issue is horrible. Locking crucial HM skills behind a paywall/crazy grinding is also something that should not have happened. Bots and spammers are still rampant and still very annoying. Servers are horrible and the lag is atrocious, and the engine is really poorly optimized, causing huge fps drops even on high-end PCs.

My clan was very, very active at some point. Now it's just me. Everyone else quit because of the insane grinding and the impossibility to progress. Most of them were premium, too.
I said classes are fun... too bad this is crushed by the fact that  alts are absolutely NOT viable in this game due to (again) the insane grinding required.

But the last straw for me was... this rng event.
I can't stand gambling. I have coped with everything else so far, but seeing so many oceanic weapons destroyed finally crushed my will to log in the game.
Such an unfair rng in an event was really a stupid idea. But I guess I should thank you for that, since it cured me from my silly addiction. I finally am able to see all of it as wasted time.
Well, so long. At least this teached me to never touch a ncsoft game again.

[Alysha Hawkeye]

42 minutes ago, Sogno said:

Well, so long. At least this teached me to never touch a ncsoft game again.

Don't touch any Asian MMO games either. They are made to trigger the gambling and grinding instincts of Asian gamers, which are not cups of tea for most Westerners.

[KlausFlouride]

At the end of the day nobody, including the devs(who do not read these forums), will care. They have made changes that have made alts more viable(the latest event with the seeds) so that point is pointless.

[Rhy]

Welcome, dear friend, to what we call Korean MMOs. All of them are like this, Tera, Aion, you name it. 

 

People keep thinking Revelations will be big (I know you didn't mention it) but its a China MMO. What is a Chinese MMO? Notorious for its p2w.

 

So again welcome to Korean MMOs where the grind is big and the RNG hates you. Most, if not all, the people I know that have quit is because they were unprepared and thought it would be "easy."

[Grimoir]

6 minutes ago, Rhy said:

Welcome, dear friend, to what we call Korean MMOs. All of them are like this, Tera, Aion, you name it. 

 

People keep thinking Revelations will be big (I know you didn't mention it) but its a China MMO. What is a Chinese MMO? Notorious for its p2w.

 

So again welcome to Korean MMOs where the grind is big and the RNG hates you. Most, if not all, the people I know that have quit is because they were unprepared and thought it would be "easy."

I am playing Revelations on the CN server and u honestly have to say this:

 

Visually B&S>>>>>>>>>Revelations, combat wise, Revelations is more fun just because of all the different skills / combos you can pull off. That plus its not even that heavy on the CPU / GPU.

 

But B&S is overall still way better than Revelations but its a nice change for a while while we wait for new content.

 

To Reply to OP:

 

It doesnt matter if you quit because new players come and take your spot.

All MMO's are grindy in one way or another, also present there.

[Sogno]

54 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

It doesnt matter if you quit because new players come and take your spot.

I don't think so.
Game is getting emptier by the day.

 

54 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

All MMO's are grindy in one way or another, also present there.

Oh, again this deeply flawed reasoning.
Not at this extent. Not even close. Not western MMOs, in any case.

[Grimoir]

18 minutes ago, Sogno said:

I don't think so.
Game is getting emptier by the day.

 

Oh, again this deeply flawed reasoning.
Not at this extent. Not even close. Not western MMOs, in any case.

Just because you dont notice new players doesnt mean they arent there. In our faction chat you see several low people asking questions about the game.

 

And the reasoning is accurate.

Regardless if its realeased in Western regions, its still a Eastern MMO, thus designed to be grindy. Anyone that would expect that to change because its being expanded to the western region is just silly.

[Brand X]

I will admit, I don't think BnS is alt friendly.  The skills and upgrades are expensive and grindy to get, but when I hear most of these complaints I think...

 

...then people *cricket* about WoW.  :p  Maybe MMO playing isn't for you.

[Sogno]

40 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Anyone that would expect that to change because its being expanded to the western region is just silly.

Except... adapting it to the western market was *the* reason (or one of the major reasons) behind its 4-year delay.
Apparently, the "adapting" just meant censoring the peeping tom sidequest.

20 minutes ago, Brand X said:

then people *cricket* about WoW

I actually had 2 legendaries (Illidan's blades and the dragon's daggers) on my main character and 1 on my alt (Thunderfury), in WoW (I stopped after Cataclysm).
The farming is not even close at what's in B&S.

[Sogno]

Just now, Mucski said:

The game is far from p2w,

You're a fanboy in denial.

[Mucski]

I just cant cope with these guys anymore. The game is far from p2w, none of the costumes or items in the cash shop yield any benefit, much less stats that nobody else can acquire unless you pay. Most cash shop items can be bought with in game currency. Wanna see p2w? Head to TESO or Black Desert Online. You'll see what p2w means. When you buy the game, and aside that you can buy packages that give you items that nobody else can have but who bought the package ... and more.

 

Further more NcSOFT despite the bad servers and sometimes unannounced changes, communicate with us by far the most, and all these live streams and whatnot, I mean what on earth could you wish more from a company? Yea sure the game is plagued by bots, it has some issues here and there, but its not like no other MMO has the same or worse issues ... but at least here you can have a sense of "community" when it comes to staff ... not so much to players.

 

Yea the grind is hard, but once you understand what the events do ... well you'll know its not. I opened about 10 boxes so far, got 100 moonstones bundle, 100 stingers bundle ... I mean ... its practically free. All you have to do is run masts 3 times. WOW big fcking deal! You get 4 heavens thingies in daily challenge which takes a rough 1 to 2 hours of your time depending on the dailies, and after that you can do 6 masts in about 1-2 hours aswel. That's 4 hours of game for a pretty big chance to get a bundle of soulstones or stingers or moonstones. That does not include f15 which also seem to drop bundles.

 

You don't really need most HM skills unless you go for a specific build with "some classes" because most really don't need them unless you wanna hog Arena 24/7 and wanna be better then people who cant afford them. But they are not required for a smooth gameplay.

[Mucski]

4 minutes ago, Sogno said:

You're a fanboy in denial.

Sure. If you think so then quit I guess. Trust me nobody is going to miss you.

[Lunakitty]

45 minutes ago, Sogno said:

Except... adapting it to the western market was *the* reason (or one of the major reasons) behind its 4-year delay.
Apparently, the "adapting" just meant censoring the peeping tom sidequest.

Adapting to western market doesn't equal removing the grind though. It still would be and it is grindy because the game was made to be like that. Tell me what would you do in a game where you can get maxed gear, level and all the skills in a month?

[Grimoir]

29 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

Adapting to western market doesn't equal removing the grind though. It still would be and it is grindy because the game was made to be like that. Tell me what would you do in a game where you can get maxed gear, level and all the skills in a month?

I'll tell you what:

 

Make seemingly intelligent topics in the forum, elaborating how bad and grindy the game is by voicing an opinion, in the end flaming anyone who disagrees by replying with blunt and inconsistent remarks, finally leading to a "i quit" post in the forum a few months later.

 

This isnt attacking anyone but I just couldnt resist, cause thats  whats happening right now in general LOL

[Samyaza]

*cricket* everything rly, but the atrocious server delays and lags, what's even worse? All blamed on "Call your ISP" BS...

[Rokusan]

6 hours ago, Sogno said:

I said classes are fun... too bad this is crushed by the fact that  alts are absolutely NOT viable in this game due to (again) the insane grinding required.

I've seen the complaints of this game being alt-unfriendly time and time again and I've never really paid much attention to it but recently I started piecing some features of the game together and I think now I've figured out, at least from a business standpoint, why they can't really afford or even want to make this game alt-friendly despite the constant demands and complaints from some of their playerbase.

 

To put it briefly, if you have multiple high level characters who can do endgame dungeons you will easily be able to circumvent some of the p2w/p2progress aspects of the game even as a completely f2p player. Your limits only being time itself.

 

 

 

 

 

[Grimoir]

18 minutes ago, Rokusan said:

I've seen the complaints of this game being alt-unfriendly time and time again and I've never really paid much attention to it but recently I started piecing some features of the game together and I think now I've figured out, at least from a business standpoint, why they can't really afford or even want to make this game alt-friendly despite the constant demands and complaints from some of their playerbase.

 

To put it briefly, if you have multiple high level characters who can do endgame dungeons you will easily be able to circumvent some of the p2w/p2progress aspects of the game even as a completely f2p player. Your limits only being time itself.

 

 

 

 

 

In the last stream it was mentioned that they know its alt unfriendly and that the game was made that way and designed to be around a single character. they are looking into ways to ease the alt progression.

[DomiSotto]

23 minutes ago, Rokusan said:

To put it briefly, if you have multiple high level characters who can do endgame dungeons you will easily be able to circumvent some of the p2w/p2progress aspects of the game even as a completely f2p player. Your limits only being time itself.

The games that are alt-friendly generally use the Daily and Weekly lock-outs on the loot (like Cold Storage). IMO it's a better system because it is geared towards reducing the player fatigue and more variable player experience.

[Rokusan]

1 hour ago, DomiSotto said:

The games that are alt-friendly generally use the Daily and Weekly lock-outs on the loot (like Cold Storage). IMO it's a better system because it is geared towards reducing the player fatigue and more variable player experience.

The same principle still applies even in dungeons with daily lockouts because your primary purpose is to go after the quest rewards(gold and free stinger/s), not the boss loot. If you have an alt who can easily participate in end game dungeons, you can just pool everything you save from that alt and give them to your main character. Compared to a somewhat casual premium player who let's say only plays 2-3 hours a day on one character receiving only 40% more gold for quest rewards , you will be making 100% more as well as extra free stingers with an alt with, as I said in my previous post, time being your only limit.

 

Maybe for a few days it doesn't seem like much of a difference, but do this with religious dedication and overtime you'll be progressing double the rate of other f2p players with one character and faster than even hardcore premium players who only play with one character. And that's just with one alt. Imagine if someone has more alts. 

 

Being a 98-99% completely f2p player asides from the rare purchases of the service vouchers and occasional outfits as well as 200 soulstones from the silverfrost chests, I wouldn't be where I am now (max accessories with stage 3 legendary) without my alt.

 

This is something even f2p players can take full advantage of and can potentially dissuade certain players from going premium or to spend on rng boxes or on purchasable upgrade materials from the hongmoon store. These things cost real life money. A business thrives on real life money. This game is also a business. Making a game like BnS too alt-friendly would be potentially bad for business.

 

 

 

 

[DomiSotto]

8 minutes ago, Rokusan said:

The same principle still applies even in dungeons with daily lockouts because your primary purpose is to go after for the quest rewards(gold and free stinger/s), not the boss loot. If you have an alt who can easily participate in end game dungeons, you can just pool everything you save from that alt and give them to your main character. Compared to a somewhat casual premium player who let's say only plays 2-3 hours a day on one character receiving only 40% more gold for quest rewards , you will be making 100% more as well as extra free stingers with an alt with, as I said in my previous post, time being your only limit.

 

Maybe for a few days it doesn't seem like much of a difference, but do this with religious dedication and overtime you'll be progressing double the rate of other f2p players with one character and faster than even hardcore premium players who only play with one character. And that's just with one alt. Imagine if someone has more alts. 

 

Being a completely f2p player asides from the rare purchases of the service vouchers and occasional outfits, I wouldn't be where I am now (max accessories with stage 3 legendary) without my alt.

 

 

Ah, but you have to keep your alt up to the minimal standard, which is a huge investment. Right now it is moving from 500 AP to 550. Unless you have that min, you will not get the Cold Storage done, Lat alone any other dungeon, as all you'll get in the LFP are the bots.

 

for a short while I had a good time doing SSP on two characters, but now having 2 alts is pointless. The dungeons take too much time and each dungeon pays next to nothing in gold/daily drop. You have to play a good 8 hours a day to get some sort of benefits from Alts in low gear compared to the highly geared main.

 

weekly lockouts btw won't let you enter each dungeon more than once per week at all. That's how Swtor worked.

[Rokusan]

20 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

Ah, but you have to keep your alt up to the minimal standard, which is a huge investment. Right now it is moving from 500 AP to 550. Unless you have that min, you will not get the Cold Storage done, Lat alone any other dungeon, as all you'll get in the LFP are the bots.

 

for a short while I had a good time doing SSP on two characters, but now having 2 alts is pointless. The dungeons take too much time and each dungeon pays next to nothing in gold/daily drop. You have to play a good 8 hours a day to get some sort of benefits from Alts in low gear compared to the highly geared main.

I edited my previous post btw just to make things more clear. Not too many changes. 

 

Yes, I completely agree. Time being the limit. It can be really exhausting sometimes. I remember feeling a certain way almost similar to a burnout of the game especially during the vipercap event where I did all silverfrost dungeons on my main and every other dungeon except sogun's with my alt almost everyday, although I don't think I reached that point. I also did SSP with my main. During the duration of the vipercap event, I was able to go from Awakened Pirate all the way to True Scorpio. I think I even upgraded my accessories during the time but only by like one transformation stage each except belt and bracelet.

 

I've actually given up on my alt lately. I think I stopped shortly before the latest patch hit. Currently I'm finding it more and more impossible to keep up with the alt farming but it's also because I'm getting busier and also because of my waning interest with the game. The more dungeons they add, the more impossible it will be to play with the alt.

 

Yeah, it can be a huge investment which is why I stopped at 450+ right before they first introduced Silverfrost. I only raised it to 500+ only a few weeks ago. You'll have struggles joining recruitment rooms for a while but you'll eventually find one that won't kick you.

 

 

[Lunakitty]

23 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

Ah, but you have to keep your alt up to the minimal standard, which is a huge investment. Right now it is moving from 500 AP to 550. Unless you have that min, you will not get the Cold Storage done, Lat alone any other dungeon, as all you'll get in the LFP are the bots.

Maybe this is regional issue but in EU this is completely not true. You can still find really good parties with LFP function and yeti, lair, necro, cold storage and mandate can be finished with min 400-420 AP character.

[Rokusan]

2 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

Too much time for no gain. I'd rather do something else than stare at the screen. I also will never join a party with an AP higher than mine, because why.

Time to find one wasn't that bad. Yes, there were times Lair was really bad and was just full of bots and uber low geared farmers but the other purples weren't.

 

Actually I did join parties where they requested higher AP than what I had. The key is to not join immediately once the recruitment ad appears. Wait around 3-5 secs before joining. Usually, by then the party leader will be itching to go and you'd have merged with the other higher AP players. Also a lot of them don't really check your AP.

[DomiSotto]

15 minutes ago, Rokusan said:

Yeah, it can be a huge investment which is why I stopped at 450+ right before they first introduced Silverfrost. I only raised it to 500+ only a few weeks ago. You'll have struggles joining recruitment rooms for a while but you'll eventually find one that won't kick you.

Too much time for no gain. I'd rather do something else than stare at the screen. I also will never join a party with an AP higher than mine, because why.

 

7 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

Maybe this is regional issue but in EU this is completely not true. You can still find really good parties with LFP function and yeti, lair, necro, cold storage and mandate can be finished with min 400-420 AP character.

It's 550+ for all of those now in NA. I can screenshot if you wish, but it's going to change zip. Tbh, the moment I have my 120 th Cold Storage Orb, I am done with the dungeons, thankfully. I just want to play ungeared alts and not worry about the mats and HM skills. Five months of raping myself for the sake of gearing was enough.

[Lunakitty]

Just now, DomiSotto said:

Too much time for no gain. I'd rather do something else than stare at the screen. I also will never join a party with an AP higher than mine, because why.

 

It's 550+ for all of those now in NA. I can screenshot if you wish, but it's going to change zip. Tbh, the moment I have my 120 th Cold Storage Orb, I am done with the dungeons, thankfully.

That is really unfortunate, no need to screenshot as I will believe things have gotten to that point in NA. I feel really bad for those really newcomers that are fresh 50s trying to finish their dungeons. I guess EU wasn't that bad after all and now I understand a bit those people complaining about gearing when there is that bad elitism.