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Any plan to balance this f*** game? (melee vs range)


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33 minutes ago, Ezzz said:

That is the same and should not have place. But also that is ilusion. Complexity of melee classes is also them weakness and affecting lack of flexibility. So even if mastered melee class can beat range class in certain situation, but only in certain situation. That is is the reason melee suck hard in faction wars and new PvE content - things changed and that is enought to see melee weakness because of lack flexibility.

 

No, range classes are glass cannons because they are range. They are DPS from range, they are stay away from dangerous zone, in PvP they are kite and that is them advantage. They should never, ever have also better DPS than melee class. In other case it means heavy broken class balance.

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't understand you.... Complexity of some of the melee classes is a strength and not a weakness.

 

faction wars? ... what is this? 

 

what changed?

 

Yes range are glass cannons aka they do massive damage but cant take any in return.... I havent test in game but im pretty shure that Range prob will die a lot faster than melee when hit by a boss/mobs or at least should....

 

I dont know how many classes you have played in this game but a SIN can and should out DPS almost every class except FM if played right.... this is general knowledge and SIN is melee!!!  

 

Can you give me a specific reason why you think range are OP compared to melee? Do you just pvp? does OW PVP mean open world pvp... if so.... are you saying that in open world pvp range are op when compared to melee??? I would think a sin in open world pvp would rekk everyone .... 

 

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ow pvp wise, sin has only 1 advantage that makes him scary: his pull. rest of the story, owPvp (not battleground) is a (random %) 70% FM and summoners, then WL, then rest .

 

battleground wise, it is gear based. i dont consider it .

 

pvp wise, leaveing aside proplayers that camp the diamond league since preseason, FM, WL, summ, are a big wall for newecomers. then when u consider the factor effort/reward those ranged have advantage. then we can discuss about "look first 10-30-100positions ladder"stuff, which make me ask: are u in those positions too?

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6 hours ago, Shadovvv said:
  • Yeti? Has only a AoE jump in its rotation.
  • Naga King and Tetralisk Queen? AoE multi-hit spin.
  • Scorpion Queen? One AoE spin.
  • Asura? One AoE spin.
  • Drill Sergeant? Three AoE jumps, only the last hit does serious damage.
  • Heavenpiercer? One AoE spin and three AoE quakes, all of which can be CC'd.
  • Umbral Lord? Two AoE spins.
  • Taikhan? One AoE spin.

That's a really low amount of AoEs that can easily be avoided by a Q, E, or SS.. If the boss can be CC'd (which most of them are), then do it.

If you are actually going to do the math- for each of these bosses, or any boss for that matter, go through ALL of their attacks and count how many of these are melee range.

 

This is by no means a complaint, I love playing melee. Just saying it has more to deal with in most cases.

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19 hours ago, Ezzz said:

You just said it, even if you do not want to admit it. And class that does not require skill is OP, always.

 

 


No, that is cure of effect, not cause. Soon you will have other content what will cause exactly the same.

 

Main problem is in flexibility. For example, our KFM say he wreck range classes. In case of 1v1 if he is good that is possible. KFM abilities allow to counter range classes in 1v1 fight (that is the reason some of them is in rankings) with good timing. But in 3v3 it will look different, timing does not help if more than one enemy. In faction wars it is even worse. While range characters just stay/kite away from danger zone and spam DPS. The same problem have every melee class, in both PvP and PvE.

 

i believe we are talking about 2 distinct things. You talk about pvp and i am talking about bosses in general and specially the SSP struggles as melee.

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11 hours ago, Kohashi said:

i believe we are talking about 2 distinct things. You talk about pvp and i am talking about bosses in general and specially the SSP struggles as melee.

A talk this 2 issues are caused by same problem.

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Please, range classes in this game aren't "glasscannons"  paper nukers etc  (more like mobile kiting cannon with pantser armor, with heavy artillery, medic squad and airsupport.. its a one-man army!!!!!!!)

They have acces to all the same gear as melee classes.

Pets, belts, soulshields.

 

The only part that could be argued is the lack of some iframes.

 

Thats all I wanted to add.

Edited by luzt
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On 07.08.2016 at 10:56 AM, Solidarius said:

I honestly don't understand you.... Complexity of some of the melee classes is a strength and not a weakness.

 

faction wars? ... what is this? 

 

what changed?

 

Yes range are glass cannons aka they do massive damage but cant take any in return.... I havent test in game but im pretty shure that Range prob will die a lot faster than melee when hit by a boss/mobs or at least should....

 

I dont know how many classes you have played in this game but a SIN can and should out DPS almost every class except FM if played right.... this is general knowledge and SIN is melee!!!  

 

Can you give me a specific reason why you think range are OP compared to melee? Do you just pvp? does OW PVP mean open world pvp... if so.... are you saying that in open world pvp range are op when compared to melee??? I would think a sin in open world pvp would rekk everyone .... 

 

In theory sin could do all of those but there is a major issue you are probably ignoring intentionally which is the game's fcked up optimization. When there are 40-50 people at the same spot let alone channel fps drops to single digit for most people and you expect them to iframe boss' fast aoes while keeping their dps high? I'm playing blade master btw so think about this; i have to block or iframe every fcking yellow aoe(range doesn't even give a fck about) if not there is a 20m knockback which in the meantime boss would lose it's %50 hp and even if i iframe or block those aose boss still would lose it's %10 hp every time. Do the math. When there is something obvious and retarded as fck, it has to be fixed yet the only response we get is, "Then roll a range" I mean what the fck is wrong with this game's management? Seriously.

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9 hours ago, GodofWrath said:

In theory sin could do all of those but there is a major issue you are probably ignoring intentionally which is the game's fcked up optimization. When there are 40-50 people at the same spot let alone channel fps drops to single digit for most people and you expect them to iframe boss' fast aoes while keeping their dps high? I'm playing blade master btw so think about this; i have to block or iframe every fcking yellow aoe(range doesn't even give a fck about) if not there is a 20m knockback which in the meantime boss would lose it's %50 hp and even if i iframe or block those aose boss still would lose it's %10 hp every time. Do the math. When there is something obvious and retarded as fck, it has to be fixed yet the only response we get is, "Then roll a range" I mean what the fck is wrong with this game's management? Seriously.

I know that ssp is not easy for melee, and that this game does not have great optimization, I am melee and when I do play ssp I get frustrated as hell because of the fps drop, lag, fact of being melee, and terror crazy fast aoes, which sometimes kill me because I am not fast enough to react, and yes if you get knockedback by the aoe, more than likely the terror will drop tons of health while most range can just sidestep or ss the aoe knockback an continue to do DPS. 

 

This topic was not about ssp, it was about "any plan to balance this fuking game melee vs range" 

 

SSP being a shity place for melee in general does not make range "OP" aka overpowerd in this game, this just makes ssp a better place for most range, I say most range cuz I personally know some range that have a harder time in ssp than some melee.  

 

honestly... what they are telling you is right... if you want to have an ez time in ssp ROLL A RANGE!!! aka summoner...

 

If a range complain that they dont have enough iframes or threat i would tell them ROLL A MELEE TANK!!!

 

you need specific when trying to balance 2 classes especially when one is range and one is melee.... if you say give melee more damage or equal damage to range and they do IMPLEMENT THIS IN THE GAME.... it will only cause melee to become "OP" , and then people will complain that "melee are op"

 

the original poster saying things like range can "kite" and do damage and he thinks this is unfair....

mabey if he said something meaningful like.... because range can kite and do damage at the same time, their defense should be lowed so melee can have equal fighting chance in open world PVP.

 

"melee cant kite and do damage when compared to range so this puts them in a disadvantage,  to balance this melee should have more stuns and cc than range" 

 

anyway, i hope that you see my point.

 

 

 

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I have destroyer, KFM, BM all HM7 + and I working on 48 warlock and FM now.

I have no idea what I'm doing with all of them. I click and press a lot of buttons without knowing what skills I'm using.

Even so, I'm still ending up with aggro in pve and winning 50% of arena match.

This just shows how many of us have no idea what we are doing with our characters.

 

Point is, most of time when someone says other class are OP, its the person that knows what they are doing and we don't.

I say don't worry about it since no matter how good you get, there will always be someone who is better then you. although I would very like to improve at my game, I'm happy with my 50% winning chance. So enjoy the game and leave it behind once you log off.

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2 hours ago, Solidarius said:

 

This topic was not about ssp, it was about "any plan to balance this fuking game melee vs range" 

 

you need specific when trying to balance 2 classes especially when one is range and one is melee.... if you say give melee more damage or equal damage to range and they do IMPLEMENT THIS IN THE GAME.... it will only cause melee to become "OP" , and then people will complain that "melee are op"

 

This topic is about overall. SSP is PvE content that clearly show melee weakness. Mass PvP is PvP content that clearly show melee weakness. Because melee classes are able to counter only very specific things. And this content bring unpredictable/many events at the same time so melee classes can do nothing. Things with range classes are different. Kite + DPS is extremaly flexibility so range classes can adapt to every situation.


No, it will cause balance.

 

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Sin for buff. No melee. Such a coincedence.

 

p.s. if nc soft/west want to to something for melee at ssp they should change grindtooth attack pattern and remove/reduce his usage of "charge" skill.

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On 8/7/2016 at 4:11 AM, Trilioh said:

If you are actually going to do the math- for each of these bosses, or any boss for that matter, go through ALL of their attacks and count how many of these are melee range.

This is by no means a complaint, I love playing melee. Just saying it has more to deal with in most cases.

You can literally walk/strafe out of all the boss's frontal attacks. They're all very slow and very easily telegraphed.

Edited by Shadovvv
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On 8/6/2016 at 11:01 AM, Shadovvv said:

How is it unbalanced?

  • PvE: The only advantage that they have is in Soulstone Plains, but even then they're very liable of taking aggro and getting punished for it. Everywhere else, they're the ones who have to handle mechanics that target the furthest player or are far away from the boss (which is almost every endgame boss we have now), while melees can just DPS the boss and strafe out of predictable attacks.
  • PvP: It's true Force Masters hold high ground, but it still takes a lot of skill to accomplish that, and it's still possible for melees to rush them down, with  Blade Masters, Destroyers, and Blade Dancers having a positive matchup. Meanwhile Summoners no longer hold any dominance, and Warlocks are among the lower tiered classes.

LOL FM does well in PVP. Looks look at 2016 3v3 arena matches on BnS. I barely see any teams with FM. Most teams have melees only (Summoner is even worse haven't seen a summoner in any team) in 1V1 you do some FM and Summoners but they aren't the best. But man poor WL. They are like not even in any PvP matches at all...... Most teams have a BM, BD and mix in a KFM, Desto or SF. You do see Sin in there as well.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

You can literally walk/strafe out of all the boss's frontal attacks. They're all very slow and very easily telegraphed.

Some are. Some less. A lot are melee range without being frontal. Some force you to back away or iFrame.  Most of these, to some degree, will disrupt your dps.

The ranged class, in the meantime, has none of that to deal with.

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