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What do you do when low AP people create or apply to your high AP party?


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This thread is a major proof of how bad and stupid this community is. No wonder why the whole server population has declined drastically with only a few months since its release in NA.  

If it's a huge gap difference of 50 AP or so, I would call them out because they're being dishonorable and expecting to be carried. If their AP meets the requirement, but their crit damage is abysmal,

A few scenarios can happen, and I see this everyday:   a) 400AP person creates a party asking for 500+ b) 600AP person creates a party asking for 550+ and a 400AP decides to join anyway

Our clan made Gloomdross with a 470 ap and a 360 ap dude (yes, they couldn't say no because I dragged him and I'm the pampered child of the clan lol) and we made him lure the infernal lord behind the seeds, that was all his job, he didn't even deal damage, and we nailed it like pros lol.  And when I was low ap, like... 450ish(?) Can't remember, I used to go LFP and only go with high ap ppl when my well geared clanmates recruited (so they can fulfill my lackness), but only if I knew the mechs perfectly, I didn't wanted to screw up other people's run. Now if a low ap one slips into the party, depending of my clanmate's mood and wich dungeon we drag them, I usually have no problem if they know mechs, and if there's only one... Maybe two? Also happened to me a couple times someone, like near 700ap, gets into the paty to be a leech, they do absolutely nothing, that actually makes me more sad than the situations you expose :(

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  • 3 weeks later...

There are a few dungeons I'll look past and some just irritates the heck out of me and some I'll either kick or leave grp.

 

For example, CS; there isn't a lot a pt has to do, CC mane and lure the automatons away from mane, etc. I joined a one or two parties that asked for 500+ (myself at the time ~650+) and turns out everyone was below 500. I thought it should be fine, but turns out everybody like to be lazy in CS. No one CC mane, and there I was running around luring the automatons around the room, trying to dps, avoid circles and gets knockdown by its aoes.

 

Another one is Mandate. Similar situation and during the 2nd part, while I am tanking as FM, no one attack the adds. I was being pull by the boss and died from the aoe and constant range attacks from the adds.

 

You can avoid some of the mechanics in these dungeons, but in the lower AP region, learn the mechanics and do your part.

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I hate when ppl join pt with lower AP than requested. When i had lower AP i didn't join even if i had just 1AP lower, cause i felt it wouldn't be fair.

 

When AP is much lower i just kick (if i am a leader) or leave pt. 

 

People always sayin "it's just 20AP chill out", "it's enough for this dungeon". Ok maybe it's enough, but when i have high Ap i want to make dungeon faster with ppl having simmilar gear to me, not carry someone, possibly who would die a lot. If your AP is enough to make dungeon just form a party with ppl on your AP level, and don't be leecher.

 

550 joins 600+ party, in this party can be several ppl with over 100AP higher than him, also higher crit, crit dmg, higher HM lvl, more HM skills, legendary weapon, usually much more skilled. It's a HUGE GAP, not only this 50AP below 600. 

 

If You want to be carried join a clan, You can ask clanmates to make dungeons with You without any complains, at Cross Server stick to your own AP lobbys. 

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i'm at 690 AP, when i make a PT i write 500+ AP but i never control even if a HM 1 joins.

There's only 1 Dung at the moment where AP is important, and this Dung i run with my clan ;)

 

only if i want to run 6vs6 i check for the Critdef but not the AP =)

 

If you cant run Dung together with "low AP" my advice is L2P 

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As a person with an alt with 405AP and yesterdays main daily's were cold storage and nexus. I asked in xserv for help to carry that toon through cold(refused to touch nexus). after 1-2 run where we failed. I went and asked a few friend to help. we burnt through it, and I was able to finish dailys. If you sub par for a dung. I recommend finding a few friend to help carry you. and if you can't you probably do not even need to be trying.

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a) 400AP person creates a party asking for 500+

I do this with my twink for heaven's mandate if I have the scale. Mandate is easy anyway, just often saw people with under 500 ap not understanding what scale-for-loot means. In mandate, people don't care about ap anyway.

 

b) 600AP person creates a party asking for 550+ and a 400AP decides to join anyways

Depends on which dungeon it is, and how he justifies his "existence" in the party. Usually kick though.

 

c) 600AP person creates a party asking for 550+ and a 540AP joins

No problem with that. Let's be serious, AP don't really matter. 520,530,540,550 AP for the same class will result in nearly the same dps. Proper knowledge of the mechanics and correct skill builds are way more crucial. The only reason why people use an ap minimum isn't the ap itself, but the knowledge which is (probably) better with higher ap.

 

 

I find it way funnier when people look for their own ap as minimum, such as 530+ while having 532 ap. I once even saw one looking for 535+ while he had 537.

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Whenever i run without guildmates per F8 i almost always set the minimum requirement at 550+ for dungeons like Nexus/Necro/Yeti/Masts/Gloomdross 6-man.

I currently have 618 AP and i rarely check the stats of those who joined since i look more at their HM levels. Also i really dont mind carrying a person that has 400-500 AP since he might be new and has had a hard time finding a group that does carry him.

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On 4.8.2016 at 1:49 AM, Windbrand said:

A few scenarios can happen, and I see this everyday:

 

a) 400AP person creates a party asking for 500+

b) 600AP person creates a party asking for 550+ and a 400AP decides to join anyways

c) 600AP person creates a party asking for 550+ and a 540AP joins

 

What do you do in each situation?

 

I find it funny why a 400 would create a party asking for 500+, does he think no one's intelligent enough to check his own character info page? Even funnier is if he labels the party "500+, fast run!". I guess he means "fast for me" and "slow for everyone else". Honestly how can someone be this thick? I don't mind people requesting carries, but learn how to make a proper party label, write something like "need help with xx" and drop that retarded 500+ requirement, it's embarrassing.

For the 400AP that joins the 550+ party, 99% a troll, I usually just leave the party if party leader doesn't kick. That's just completely idiotic and selfish. There's a difference between requesting help and leeching from "fast run" parties because you're too lazy to do a "regular run" due to your low AP.

I find nothing wrong with a 540 joining a 550. 10AP doesn't matter the slightest.

 

a) just dont join.

b) Would depend a little which dung it is. If it would be CS/Mandate or an 6man on on my alt. id not rly care at all if One 400Ap joined,

 If it was an 4man, and The party Leader Would'nt kick, id leave.

c) Ap aint everything in BnS 10ap id not care jackshiit. but if its a 4man, id require himt to have anouch acc, Pierce. 

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depends on which dng but overall - the answer would be, if they try make a higher ap party and they're nowhere near the req they asked for won't join obviously lol

if a low ap joins my pt if all 5 other players have good high ap, won't mind carry that lil bob unless he just afk at start point of the dungeon.

if most my party has low ap... won't bother try the dng with them and will just leave.

 

I had a few times idiots with not even 400 ap that tries do YETI -_- if it's one player and every1 else had good ap.. won't mind as long as the lowbie won't be a liability and will constantly die or f*** up the mechanics of the boss and cost us extra time to be able finish the dng. (like in gloom sometimes >.< )

 

if it's a clanm8 I won't mind the ap as long as he's on TS /other voice prog to learn the dungeon's mechanics and won't do too many mistakes to slow us down :)

would be nice thou if you could kick some1 while inside the dungeon if you on crosserver >.< !

in case some1 is afk or just being low ap

idc what some would say but cmon bringing a low ap character with sh*ttest gears ever to a somewhat high ap dungeon is plain stupid! pff

I didn't go anywhere near asura/masts or even gloom/yeti/necropolis/nexus without my clan and friend to guide me in +had sufficient ap for asura and masts to not be too much of a liability for the party ! lol for gloom and yeti took me few runs to understand the mechanics and even watched a guide on youtube to prep myself to be more useful than a liability on my party. it takes practice and even still, on yeti there's always a need to pick atleast 1 or 2 hearts in case of a WDF scenario or having a stupid force master that shields us thinking it will save us then we end up losing a heart coz of their stupid mistake (or die if didn't take heart -.- )

 

for nexus you really need know mechanics of some of the rooms inside and the last boss or you're f*cked sometimes regardless to your party's ap... it could be high but if they don't know mechanics of things... it's gameover lol

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This topic is realy big problem of BNS, i am personaly new player to BNS but i play mmorpg games for about 10 years so im not new to this type of games and i pick up pretey fast how game works, at least the basics. Since i didnt join any clan while i was leveling up i was lucky enough to have some friends from previus game we played together, to help me with some instances on lower level. That was ok and i managed to get to around 400ish AP and lvl 50. And here comes now the problem, if your friends dont have time to carry you in instances, its allmost impossible to get group for any instance lvl 50. Before i decided to do any instance i checked video guides for each instance to at least see what i can expect there and at least try to do my best if i get group.

 

A) I created party for avalance den or awakened necropolis with writing new player need help, i know mechanics (or at least theory of it). Half an hour later i was still alone in lobby... So i approached different thing and wrote 500+ some instance, why i wrote 500+ its because if i dont do any dmg i hope my party members will cover my lower dps. People join, check my AP and leave. After allmost an hour i give up and join LFG group and i go in, but another problem shows here, so many groups created like this in instances like avalance den will fail 9/10 times <--- yes i had to go ~10 times to do daily quest!!!

I join group B)  when i enter i write, hi im new player, i know mechanics of instance, just need help with daily quest (ofc i have to copy this msg to paste it when i join because i dont have time to write before kick :D) and i hope that i find some friendly helpfull ppl who dont mind carry someone new. Sadly this is only maybe 5% of groups i joined.

If i get kicked out of group C) (with 540AP) than just please drop your ego, 10AP will not make instance significaly slower or faster at this numbers. If you are going in new instance ok i understand since ppl are still not familiar with all things there and still learning, but for old instances its just kick out of ego not out of need to get someone better geared. 

So to sum up, if you are new player here who dont have friends and dont have clan or clan who is willing to help you, you are basicly screwed up and it will take ages to progress with gear. Community here in 90% of time wont help new player unless you find clan with friendly ppl who are willing to help, its only way for new player to gear up with decent speed or if you invest irl money to get gold that way. 
If you see ppl with 400 AP applying to your groups, at least be decent enough to ask reason why they join and if they know machanics and if you know your group have enough power to do instance with 1 lower AP, let them stay and help them, next time they might have 500AP allready when you see them ^^ 

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a) i see no problem if someone ask for ap above his own. if he has too low ap for this dung just don't join.  

 

b) Trolls but more worse is if they joined in a pty what already depart and refuse to leave (e.g yesterday where a 370ap guy joined desolated tomb). 

 

c) see here no problem.

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i like to add sth.

 

502 AP dude creates party and asks for 500+ ppl.

 

I kinda dont like these partys either, simply because those ppl make partys like .... no AP at all under their own, this is also some kind of "Carry me" shout, because mostly there will join ppl with 510 - 550+ AP, which makes him the lowest in AP after all.

 

For example, i just hit 650 AP now, when i do partys its still 600, when i was at 520 AP ( for nexus) i still made my partys for 500+.

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This game is complete cancer for new players. I 'kinda geared' my bm alt a while ago to be able to do daily challenge and get hm levels on it. Right now thats my gear on it: http://imgur.com/a/Kjler And it was worse before. People STILL don´t take me to cold storage now often times (at least that you can easiely just que up randomly) and finding a 6man asura run is completely ridiculously hard, 6 man yeti you also get kicked with that ap, 6 man gloom or nexus. Don´t even think about it. And rngesus que asura... o god please no it´s so terrible!!!

 

I´m pretty sure my bms gear is just fine for 6 man asura and probably even for 4 man if everyone can play well enough. Usually people with low ap just s*ck as well and also have like 30% crit rate and 130% crit damage or something similar, so they don´t even get anywhere close to dealing decent damage. But oh well...

I know i do about half or a bit more of the damage of this guy: http://imgur.com/a/XhY8x and that i think is to be expected looking at the numbers. But also with that ap he has you can 2 man asura / yeti. So i should be able to do 4 man right? I know how my damage roughly compares to him from doing 4 man nexus with him and some more as those are my guild mates and they basically take me anywhere, even on my alts, except well the newest dungeon where they only take me with my main, because turns out it´s kinda hard for everyone to do that still.

 

For the most part i think the ap issue is really just a trust issue on my part i also usually ask for 500+ / 550+ ap ppl on my bm when i search for parties, because that´s what people expect you to have for those dungeons appearently and they usually don´t even join lower ap parties. Some guys here even said you should not ask for exactly what you have lol. So what am i supposed to do on my alt ask for 400ap+ asura? Would you join that party? Really? i know i can do the dungeon just fine, but i don´t know other random people, except well i know them because they are my guild mates / friends in witch case they probably can do asura just fine and i´m fine with them having less ap, because they will not fail the mechanics and they will not die, because it´s actually super easy not to in asura. But randoms still manage to do so anyway.

 

Pve is just too grindy in this game and too unhealthy / cancerous / p2w / garbage. And also people only care about your ap number nothing more. I´m pretty sure often times some asura parties would be better off taking me on my bm than some 550 ap plep they then end up taking after kicking me. Just saying. But i don´t blame them, it´s not their fault the system is garbage.

 

@TekoTek

Witch is why it get´s worse and worse. You ever thought about what this does to new players? Yes exactly it´s completely retarded and makes them quit the game before they even get into it. Even as pvp players as they farm 1v1 to get their first hm skill, witch is usually the bsh one, only to then get slapped into the face, because to actually learn that skill they have to hit yeti 10 times and also the endboss of nexus. Good luck doing that. Who here would help this guy? I probably would because i know how much it s*cks to be in that situation. I got carried threw nexus on my bm for lighting draw with like 370ap and profane soul shields and same goes for yeti. Thankfully i actually have a guild, but without that you´re completely screwed over. If you start playing with your 1 or 2 irl friends you´re just screwed all together as you cannot do anything. No one is gonna help you with anything ever, you´re stuck doing the most boring grindy easymode dungeons over and over and over and over again for like forever. Have fun playing the game.

 

Basically it just makes you rage inside seeing how many new players bns pvp scene would need to be actually really competitive and compete at worlds and stuff. And then see how COMPLETELY OUT OF THIS WOLD IMPOSSIBLE IT IS to get into this game as a new player!

Edited by N3ro
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The whole problem with BNS system is you need the gear to get the gear. It's not specific to dungeons, it's everywhere.  Moonstones from F14-15 of the tower is a classic example.  This game is very unfriendly to new players who are just hitting 50.

 

To answer the OP..

 

A) you shouldn't ask for AP over your own unless you specifically post you want to get carried.  Use LFP if nobody joins your group.

B) If someone joins that far under the requested AP, I'd ask them to leave

C) If someone is within 10-20 AP that's close enough - 10-20 AP doesn't matter, and if they have a good SS it REALLY doesn't matter.

 

People should follow the progression, not expect to jump straight into Asura / Masts / Nexus as soon as they hit 50.  The AP isn't as much of a hindrance as the soul shields are.  I'd take someone with 400AP and a full set of Yeti SS over someone with 500AP and a full set of Silverfrost Valor with no fuses.  

 

Fresh 50's sitting around 350AP should be running Narrows -> BSH -> Labyrinth and the 50 Blues - Work their way through F1-F8 of the tower. Run ZW and get a half decent hodge-podge SS set, with some crit fuses and gear up to around 400AP - Then move up to Necropolis / Yeti / Lair / Mandate / CS. All of these 6-mans CAN be run with around 375-400AP and a half-ass SS. Anyone who says differently is an idiot. This should get you a fair amount of crit (Around 3.5-4K) and mats for getting to 450-500AP, at which point you can run every 6-man dungeon in the game except maybe Desolate Tomb.

 

Now if this game didn't use the cheap MMO gear-check gimmick of enrage timers (Brought to you by Blizzard and Sony ~15 years ago) instead of real mechanics, none of this would matter.

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1 hour ago, N3ro said:

@TekoTek

Witch is why it get´s worse and worse. You ever thought about what this does to new players? Yes exactly it´s completely retarded and makes them quit the game before they even get into it. Even as pvp players as they farm 1v1 to get their first hm skill, witch is usually the bsh one, only to then get slapped into the face, because to actually learn that skill they have to hit yeti 10 times and also the endboss of nexus. Good luck doing that. Who here would help this guy? I probably would because i know how much it s*cks to be in that situation. I got carried threw nexus on my bm for lighting draw with like 370ap and profane soul shields and same goes for yeti. Thankfully i actually have a guild, but without that you´re completely screwed over. If you start playing with your 1 or 2 irl friends you´re just screwed all together as you cannot do anything. No one is gonna help you with anything ever, you´re stuck doing the most boring grindy easymode dungeons over and over and over and over again for like forever. Have fun playing the game.

Where is the prob to create a 480+ pt when u are at 500 AP ?

i dont see the problem.
 

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1 hour ago, TecoTek said:

Where is the prob to create a 480+ pt when u are at 500 AP ?

i dont see the problem.
 

Well yeah that´s what i do. Now read the above posts. People think that´s really bad behavious and i´m an *cricket* who is lying to others and wants to get carried. Oh well... i´ll still do it anyway. lol I want players to join and they usually rather join a 500+ or 550+ pt than a 450+ pt even if the leader does not have the "required ap".

 

I don´t mind what ap ppl have as long as it´s doable, witch means i still probably won´t just take randoms who bearly make the cut as i do not know them and don´t know if they can PLAY good enough to make up for it and actually survive the dungeon and get the mechanics done. And that´s the problem, because for others i´m the random and they won´t take me... And when it´s some random guy you don´t know you just determinate his worth by his ap value alone and everything else literally does not even matter to most people. They don´t even look at crit rate, crit damage or accuracy that´s just whatever who cares. 550ap = pass, 485 = kick. That´s how it works.

 

It does not matter that i have cleared the dungeon 10 times more than the 550ap guy they will take instead of me and it does not matter how good or bad i play, because they just look at the ap and that´s it ./kick. That´s just how the system works right? There is no good or bad people. You have a number on your head and if you didn´t grind enough people won´t want you. And it´s really hard for new players to get to like 500-550ap.

 

There should at least be a gearscore that shows how much damage you can actually do including all values, but no people only look at ap and then you´re gone.

Edited by N3ro
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In fairness most people don't realize just how low ap you can be and still clear.

Gloomdross final boss has 11.3mil hp and 6min time limit.

That means in a 6 member party each player has to do 1883333 damage over those 6 minutes

That's an average 5232 dps.

Something even a 400AP player can easily do if they got their rotation down.

The real question is can they survive and not mess up on mechanics.

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On 9/1/2016 at 11:07 AM, Eileithia said:

Now if this game didn't use the cheap MMO gear-check gimmick of enrage timers (Brought to you by Blizzard and Sony ~15 years ago) instead of real mechanics, none of this would matter.

Ya we can only wish huh?

Unfortunately this is a grindy, RNG-infested pay2win game so enrage timers are the #1 choice for MMO devs with no creativity for actual gameplay challenge. "We're not competent enough to program actually challenging and fresh gameplay, so let's just put an annoying enrage timer instead to force people to grind and give the illusion of being challenging". Being overgeared = skip all mechanics, where's your "action oriented combat" in that NCSoft? Oh of course we can't have 700 AP people actually doing any mechanics, that'd annoy them and kill our chances of getting $$$ from them.

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On 04/08/2016 at 0:49 AM, Windbrand said:

a) 400AP person creates a party asking for 500+

b) 600AP person creates a party asking for 550+ and a 400AP decides to join anyways

c) 600AP person creates a party asking for 550+ and a 540AP joins

What do you do in each situation?

 

a) I do not join. I would join someone asking for help learning the dungeon.

b) If I am the leader this would not happen, I don't do AP requirements. If I was a joiner, I would not care.

c) Same as above, but if the leader decides to kick the 540AP, my 610AP leave with him.

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Ok i made alt, finally got over 560ap, but what i experience in f8 lobby, i wanna cry, i wanna tear my hairs from head, i wanna break screen. Comunity is incredible stupid, and coupled with fail design, most newbie unfriendly game ever seen, theres almost no income of new players, cause this dumb mentality what ppl show.

 

I am atm at 55crits 219 crit damage 561ap with asura bracelet (if i equip apbloat oathbreaker, i have 570) - i am usually getting insta kicked in this cases, if i try to join 570.

When i do lair4 or yeti4, after half hour trying to find some, i usually overdps 650ap easy (im fm).

You talk about some other stats good, which is nonsense, noone even bothers looking at other stats. 95perc of comunity just nobrain mode - hm7 - inspect - 561ap shit kick them.

Most funny is, that in many cases you get kicked by someone whose stats are even worse than yours!

 

I was farming lair4 yeti4 with 490ap, so many times(both 200x + in my mains achievements), i was farming naryu 4man mode with 420ap so many times. With my alt`s stats on my main, i was farming asura4 few months ago, many many runs, now i can barely find party for 6man. Etc etc.  

Population decreases cuz this stupid mentality, extreme bad design (wish there was inspectable skilled status, as in tera, wish there was rookie in party drop buff as in tera).

This massive p2w events only makes this worse, as you meet 600+ people who know total nothing, and are way more useles than some skilled 480player.

 

A) if they ask for help, i often try, but i give up after 20min sitting we two in lobby

B) if its something easy, never cared

C) stupid question

 

F8 is cancer, sadly it is needed, not allways theres spot in guild runs for everyone, even if you are lucky with guild.

3months later, 3servers merged, less population everywhere - guess why.

 

Things determining your effectivity in dungeon, sorted by importance (IMO):

1. YOUR SKILL

2. YOUR PING (looool)

3. YOUR COMBINED STATS - ap is one of 4-5 all super important stats 

Edited by babeln
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/13/2016 at 10:25 AM, babeln said:

Things determining your effectivity in dungeon, sorted by importance (IMO):

1. YOUR SKILL

2. YOUR PING (looool)

3. YOUR COMBINED STATS - ap is one of 4-5 all super important stats 

1. How are random strangers supposed to know you're skilled? You think people are going to trust a 400AP player just because he says "he's an expert"?

2. So people are supposed to automatically know your ping the moment you join party?

3. While it's true AP isn't the only thing that matters, unfortunately people in this game don't really have a great attention span. Blame the game for putting the AP in huge letters right in middle of status screen while hiding every other stat in tiny font and dropdowns

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On 8/9/2016 at 9:46 AM, katashi90 said:

Happened to me once. A 480 AP summoner shouting for 600+ AP asura run. I joined in with 580 AP.

 

 

I got kicked.

That is very sad lol

 

I usually post and strictly enforce 600+ just because people with higher gear are less likely to bid war on every single thing in the loot.

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