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Scheduled Maintenance – 8/3/2016

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Grimoir   
9 minutes ago, Youmukon said:

Hello!

 

Whenever no Patch Notes are being given for a maintenance it typically means that no change that we judge relevant to the Community were being made. The weekly maintenance is first and foremost an NCSOFT maintenance window and not a 100% dedicated Blade and Soul one. Today's maintenance for example was: a Database routine maintenance, several application restarts and pre-patch to prepare the next PvP Season. There was also some NCSOFT Platform changes. None of that is visible to players and affects gameplay hence why we do not release further information.

 

We will never communicate widely on certain things that get fixed under the hood such as any potential security risk for our servers that gets patched, any exploit that wasn't discovered by the public yet and so on. Likewise for minor bugs being invisible for the end users. This is a pretty standard practice. Sometime we pre-patch content that has yet to be announced, in that case obviously we won't be able as well to document changes. Content added but remaining "dormant" (i.e. invisible to players) should be documented the moment it goes live (i.e. visible) and not when it gets added.

 

Last but not least, when it comes to drop rate and the whole paranoia about nerfing them, first of all there's certainly no need for a downtime to adjust some of these things. Second of all, we would notify Community if important changes regarding drops were being made.

 

By all means do not hesitate to call us out if you believe that changes were made but weren't documented properly because most of the time it means that there's a bug / real issue that needs fixing :) And if things are working as intended but weren't documented either, then it's another issue we need to fix on our end in order to make sure we provide everyone with relevant information whenever noticeable changes occur!

Suggestion: increase the spawn timer and drop rate of Mods in the forums to put such answers as above to other topics that need it :P

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1 hour ago, Nattia said:

I hope this time nothing breaks after maint. :D

You mean that no hamster dies to fast^^. 

Give them some steorids than you can have better hamsters^^

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Winner   
16 minutes ago, Youmukon said:

Hello!

 

Whenever no Patch Notes are being given for a maintenance it typically means that no change that we judge relevant to the Community were being made. The weekly maintenance is first and foremost an NCSOFT maintenance window and not a 100% dedicated Blade and Soul one. Today's maintenance for example was: a Database routine maintenance, several application restarts and pre-patch to prepare the next PvP Season. There was also some NCSOFT Platform changes. None of that is visible to players and affects gameplay hence why we do not release further information.

 

We will never communicate widely on certain things that get fixed under the hood such as any potential security risk for our servers that gets patched, any exploit that wasn't discovered by the public yet and so on. Likewise for minor bugs being invisible for the end users. This is a pretty standard practice. Sometime we pre-patch content that has yet to be announced, in that case obviously we won't be able as well to document changes. Content added but remaining "dormant" (i.e. invisible to players) should be documented the moment it goes live (i.e. visible) and not when it gets added.

 

Last but not least, when it comes to drop rate and the whole paranoia about nerfing them, first of all there's certainly no need for a downtime to adjust some of these things. Second of all, we would notify Community if important changes regarding drops were being made.

 

By all means do not hesitate to call us out if you believe that changes were made but weren't documented properly because most of the time it means that there's a bug / real issue that needs fixing :) And if things are working as intended but weren't documented either, then it's another issue we need to fix on our end in order to make sure we provide everyone with relevant information whenever noticeable changes occur!

A rare Pokemon as popped up.

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29 minutes ago, Youmukon said:

Hello!

By all means do not hesitate to call us out if you believe that changes were made but weren't documented properly because most of the time it means that there's a bug / real issue that needs fixing :) And if things are working as intended but weren't documented either, then it's another issue we need to fix on our end in order to make sure we provide everyone with relevant information whenever noticeable changes occur!

first  

thank you for poping in and reading the thread, i'm glad you noticed this matter, and i do understand that not everything you do to the server need to be included in a patch, minor things that revolves around server file stuff is not important to the players, database and such is not needed to be added such as changing files names improvement to quality of the server, security stuff and what not,

 

 

i was talking about things like loot changes in dungeons, it did happen a lot without telling us at first, you also did change the marketplace UI and its not as good as it was before, some ppl (like me) sit all day in the UI marketplace buying and selling stuff playing simple sell/buy and its kinda make me work extra.

 

 

numbers always glitch to -1 when you try to add or remove quantity when u register stuff, you have to take it back in your inv and put it back up when that happens, and its kinda annoying, markeplace did operate better before so i don't know why you guys did that, is it cuz of bots? if so its kinda unfair to let normal ppl suffer cuz of them, knowing that scripted bots will always change and adapt, and normal player will keep suffering from it, these kind of changes are important to us and i hope things like that don't happen, cuz its not fun to login and then find out things that do effect you in a bad way  thats why i called you out on that, D: 

 

but anyways thanks for your replay.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sempra said:

Ehm guys.. whats that??

 

Not worth to say what we get here??

 

aPAFWXH.png

this window pops out when an event is over to sell event items to tell you that these items are just clutter in your inventory and they no longer serve any good purpose

 

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Sempra   
3 minutes ago, WarWarWar said:

this window pops out when an event is over to sell event items to tell you that these items are just clutter in your inventory and they no longer serve any good purpose

 

Ok selling.. check..

 

and for what i trade and extract?

 

Never seen this window before so, it feels like a new thing that we get with the patch..

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1 minute ago, Sempra said:

Ok selling.. check..

 

and for what i trade and extract?

 

Never seen this window before so, it feels like a new thing that we get with the patch..

you need to click the tab where the orange bubble number1 and sell it its showing you what item you have that won't be useful anymore 

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4 minutes ago, WarWarWar said:

this window pops out when an event is over to sell event items to tell you that these items are just clutter in your inventory and they no longer serve any good purpose

 

Unfortunately it was not buying my leftover bags, at least not yesterday. Is it doing it today?

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2 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

Unfortunately it was not buying my leftover bags, at least not yesterday. Is it doing it today?

are you sure you clicked that right tab? where the orange number is?

cuz i sold my stuff on all my alts last night

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4 minutes ago, WarWarWar said:

are you sure you clicked that right tab? where the orange number is?

cuz i sold my stuff on all my alts last night

Yeah, it was showing the bags in that tab, but pressing sell did nothing for me.

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Sempra   
4 minutes ago, WarWarWar said:

you need to click the tab where the orange bubble number1 and sell it its showing you what item you have that won't be useful anymore 

yeah.. but which items i can TRADE or EXTRACT..there are 2 tabs that dont show anything and i dont know, what i can do with them...

 

nice that u know this and help me, but why no patchnotes about this thing?

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Just now, Sempra said:

yeah.. but which items i can TRADE or EXTRACT..there are 2 tabs that dont show anything and i dont know, what i can do with them...

 

nice that u know this and help me, but why no patchnotes about this thing?

this window was always there just hiddin, i do remember selling my wep stone (nobela or w/e that stone called) when the date expired for that event,

this window pops out when you have event items that did expire you just click where the orange number cuz it shows you where you have it, it has tabs telling you where to go inventory/bag/mail etc. 

 

 to sell what you have and after selling this window will disappear, maybe you never saw it cuz you joined the game new?

it was always there it just pops out when there is an event that gives items and these items expired  

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Sempra   
6 minutes ago, WarWarWar said:

this window was always there just hiddin, i do remember selling my wep stone (nobela or w/e that stone called) when the date expired for that event,

this window pops out when you have event items that did expire you just click where the orange number cuz it shows you where you have it, it has tabs telling you where to go inventory/bag/mail etc. 

 

 to sell what you have and after selling this window will disappear, maybe you never saw it cuz you joined the game new?

it was always there it just pops out when there is an event that gives items and these items expired  

Not realy.. i am here since CBT

 

I had nebulas too and nothing appears..

 

But not worth to discuss it, maybe i be blended or something..  we can go back to the Maintopic ^^

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15 minutes ago, Sempra said:

Not realy.. i am here since CBT

 

I had nebulas too and nothing appears..

 

But not worth to discuss it, maybe i be blended or something..  we can go back to the Maintopic ^^

if u keep the items and you didn't do something with them and the event expire this window will appear to you

this window came for me 3 times now, the first one was valentine day event i remember selling the leftovers after event ended

2nd event was the Nebulas Stone(the mushroom event) for your weapons, i remember selling mine for 5 gold and last event was this event

 

if u never saw it you should contact support to know why cuz i don't know, i always get it, i play on 2 accounts and on both

i had this window pop out to sell my leftovers  after some of these events

Edited by WarWarWar

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Youmukon   
46 minutes ago, WarWarWar said:

 was talking about things like loot changes in dungeons, it did happen a lot without telling us at first, you also did change the marketplace UI and its not as good as it was before, some ppl (like me) sit all day in the UI marketplace buying and selling stuff playing simple sell/buy and its kinda make me work extra.

numbers always glitch to -1 when you try to add or remove quantity when u register stuff, you have to take it back in your inv and put it back up when that happens, and its kinda annoying, markeplace did operate better before so i don't know why you guys did that, is it cuz of bots? if so its kinda unfair to let normal ppl suffer cuz of them, knowing that scripted bots will always change and adapt, and normal player will keep suffering from it, these kind of changes are important to us and i hope things like that don't happen, cuz its not fun to login and then find out things that do effect you in a bad way  thats why i called you out on that, D: 

 

but anyways thanks for your replay.

 

When it comes to loots in dungeons, as far as I am aware, there was no undocumented change (bugs aren't excluded however). It's often the case that unlucky players complain more and feel like chances are lower for some reasons while in reality, nothing has changed. I have yet to see on forums someone taking a proper statistical approach to determine with a high enough degree of confidence (typically 95%) that there is an issue with drop rates. Things aren't as easy as "I'm unlucky and so are all my friends or people in this thread, so there must be something wrong!". Same goes for people still believing that they have less chance to obtain their class weapon out of a chest...

 

At the end of the day, drop rate / RNG are pure maths. Proving that something was changed or that two variables are independent by using existing statistical laws is possible for any players (or group of players if you want to gather a larger sample). The day someone comes to me with a chi-squared test properly done then we'll able to discuss about a potential issue when it comes to drops. 

 

Regarding the Marketplace, things are rather complicated. A good part of Marketplace features are Web dependent and not directly linked to the game files themselves. Sometime we discover bugs when implementing updates because some things... weren't even documented to us as a publisher (or they were and someone lost track of them). You can imagine that in a large project like Blade & Soul we sometime have internal hiccups between the West and Korea which lead to us discovering things too late hence why we fail to document them :( That is indeed very unfortunate and something we strive to reduce to a minimum, but it might occasionally happen. (You wanted transparency and this is what's actually happening!) 

 

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2 minutes ago, Youmukon said:

When it comes to loot in dungeons, as far as I am aware, there was no undocumented change. It's often the case that unlucky players complain more and feel like chances are lower for some reasons while in reality, nothing has changed. I have yet to see on forums someone taking a proper statistical approach to determine with a high enough degree of confidence (typically 95%) that there is an issue with drop rates. Things aren't as easy as "I'm unlucky and so are all my friends or people in this thread, so there must be something wrong!". Same goes for people still believing that they have less chance to obtain their class weapon out of a chest...

 

At the end of the day, drop rate / RNG are pure maths. Proving that something was changed or that two variables are independent by using existing statistical laws is possible for any players (or group of players if you want to gather a larger sample). The day someone comes to me with a chi-squared test properly done then we'll able to discuss about a potential issue when it comes to drops :) 

 

Regarding the Marketplace, things are rather complicated. A good part of Marketplace features are Web dependent and not directly linked to the game files themselves. Sometime we discover bugs when implementing updates because some things... weren't even documented to us as a publisher (or they were and someone lost track of them). You can imagine that in a large project like Blade & Soul we sometime have internal hiccups between the West and Korea which lead to us discovering things too late hence why we fail to document them :( That is indeed very unfortunate and something we strive to reduce to a minimum, but it might occasionally happen. (You wanted transparency and this is what's actually happening :) ) 

 

if you remember the blackram boxes that didnt had acc's in them after a certain patch i don't remember the dates, boxes was changed and they were missing loots also bloodshade harber, and few times in  Naryu lab it did change few times one time the machismo were taking off last boss did always drop them, few times things got changed and it wasn't included in patch notes, but you guys fixed these issues cuz ppl did report that and i do appreciate these hot fixes

 

you guys work a lot and a lot of times you don't get enough credit cuz ppl love being salty all the time lol

ppl mess up and its ok its part of humanity, most broken things can be fixed :D

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28 minutes ago, Youmukon said:

At the end of the day, drop rate / RNG are pure maths. Proving that something was changed or that two variables are independent by using existing statistical laws is possible for any players (or group of players if you want to gather a larger sample). The day someone comes to me with a chi-squared test properly done then we'll able to discuss about a potential issue when it comes to drops

 

Youmukon, I am quite greatful for you replying in the forums airing this issues.

 

However, do you truly require a chi squared test to recognize the insufficient drop rates of the SSP keys, and the necessity of the guaranteed drops?

 

Statstical analyses also requires a valid data sample. The metrics on the success rates and drops and the populations are not made public, therefore even if we had professional statisticians willing to plug it in to justify the witness accounts of hardship and suffering they must obtain those datasets illegally or apply for a FoiP. I do not even know if we are allowed to FoiP databases in this case under the international law.

 

Not to mention it is absurd to go into a combatitive situation over a video game. It's disproportionate response to an issue.

 

Please, continue to listen to us and talk to us instead of dismissing huge issues like SSP design flaws and exploits. There is a huge difference between that one guy who had to run Mushin's Tower 542 times to get a hat, and the dungeon and drop rates design that allows (an inaccurate estimate) the 25% of the game's population parasitically exploiting the remaining 75%.

Edited by DomiSotto

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Youmukon   

Hey DomiSotto,

 

This is a different piece of feedback to what I was making allusion to. What you call the "SSP design flaws" is different from the usual "RNG is rigged, you are less likely to get your class weapon" I was referring to. Class weapon probabilities are known. So you can prove (with a certain degree of confidence) if there's actually an issue with them or not.

 

I am by no mean dismissing SSP feedbacks, but this wasn't directly related to this thread and more importantly I am unable to comment on the matter. All I can say is that all woes expressed on the forums regarding SSP have been escalated to relevant teams. What happens after that is beyond my control. I know that when we don't reply to a thread players assume that it is being ignored but that's not the case. All these posts are being read and we report them on a daily/weekly basis.

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9 minutes ago, Youmukon said:

Hey DomiSotto,

 

This is a different piece of feedback to what I was making allusion to. What you call the "SSP design flaws" is different from the usual "RNG is rigged, you are less likely to get your class weapon" I was referring to. Class weapon probabilities are known. So you can prove (with a certain degree of confidence) if there's actually an issue with them or not.

 

I am by no mean dismissing SSP feedbacks, but this wasn't directly related to this thread and more importantly I am unable to comment on the matter. All I can say is that all woes expressed on the forums regarding SSP have been escalated to relevant teams. What happens after that is beyond my control. I know that when we don't reply to a thread players assume that it is being ignored but that's not the case. All these posts are being read and we report them on a daily/weekly basis.

I've never doubted that, and I am glad to hear it confirmed. I was taken aback by the way the stream talked about the SSP, and actions on those items when they were published in the game design alterations.

 

In case of the RNG drops, I still doubt that a statistical analysis on a single individual experience can show a variation in the drop rates and back-engineer the drop rate formulas. It's like sampling one site out of many. If it hits an anomaly you will never know if you do not have representative background sampling. You throw in skewing the set in your favor based on the past luck, and even comparing your alts makes the comparison invalid. We now as a community, as knowledge accumulated and means to bypass the RNG become more widely available, tend to avoid sticking points whenever we can. So, really, an emotional judgment based on the hearsay is as accurate as we can get. The onus of how much credit to give to this reports and when they warrant the statistical analysis of the metrics and checking the code for gremlins rests with the service provider. The less we try to get through the backdoor, the better.

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1 hour ago, DomiSotto said:

Youmukon, I am quite greatful for you replying in the forums airing this issues.

 

However, do you truly require a chi squared test to recognize the insufficient drop rates of the SSP keys, and the necessity of the guaranteed drops?

 

Statstical analyses also requires a valid data sample. The metrics on the success rates and drops and the populations are not made public, therefore even if we had professional statisticians willing to plug it in to justify the witness accounts of hardship and suffering they must obtain those datasets illegally or apply for a FoiP. I do not even know if we are allowed to FoiP databases in this case under the international law.

 

Not to mention it is absurd to go into a combatitive situation over a video game. It's disproportionate response to an issue.

 

Please, continue to listen to us and talk to us instead of dismissing huge issues like SSP design flaws and exploits. There is a huge difference between that one guy who had to run Mushin's Tower 542 times to get a hat, and the dungeon and drop rates design that allows (an inaccurate estimate) the 25% of the game's population parasitically exploiting the remaining 75%.

I also thought that SSP has really poor chance to drop keys recently as it seemed like that to me but in two days I managed to hoard around 46-50 moonstones with just 2-4 hours of SSP in a day. To really get something out of SSP you really need to stay there for longer while and one or two minings might be way too little to gain anything. Sadly many people don't have that much time or high enough AP for SSP and hence they complain when they don't get keys with few boxes or get only one key and no crits.

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16 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

I also thought that SSP has really poor chance to drop keys recently as it seemed like that to me but in two days I managed to hoard around 46-50 moonstones with just 2-4 hours of SSP in a day. To really get something out of SSP you really need to stay there for longer while and one or two minings might be way too little to gain anything. Sadly many people don't have that much time or high enough AP for SSP and hence they complain when they don't get keys with few boxes or get only one key and no crits.

SSP is a nightmare to model because it has more variables than a dungeon, and boundary conditions cannot be well-set because of cheats and exploits. It has a huge uncertainty. It has enough of an RNG introduced by population and breaking the rules.

 

By the way the Floating Island is described by another poster, the SSP design flaws that we keep listing were noted and corrected for the next iteration of the Faction content by precluding the channel surfing, hard-capping the channels and by having guaranteed drops. But the SSP was not made back-compatible and redesigned for the new market.  So once it was accessible by a large enough population all the loopholes became glaringly obvious, as I am sure they were a few years ago in Korea.

 

I am pretty sure that our threads are a variant on what the feedback was in Korea a few years back, and that is why the Floating island is designed the way it is designed.

 

It is not sad that most of us do not have 4 hours daily to play till the stars align and we get a windfall. It is sad that we have to, when the content is very clearly designed as a moderate drop rate 1 hour daily enterprise for a level 50 character that just finished some of the oathbreaker on a weapon/accessories, which corresponds to 450-500 AP range.

Edited by DomiSotto

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LordMg   
2 hours ago, Youmukon said:

When it comes to loots in dungeons, as far as I am aware, there was no undocumented change

Naryu Labyrinth Fujin and Raijin loot - no longer drops Mujin Machismo, now drops stacks of relics instead of few single relics (try to split that between all players when you do bid rotation) and drop warrior token chests instead of just tokens. And I don't remember reading anything about this change.

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