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Some questions to the community


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After playing this game for some months and reading quite a lot of threads in these forums there are still several things that I don't understand, so I will do what I always do when there is something that I don't understand: I will ask.

 

When you speak about "pay to win", what do you exactly mean by "win" in this game? When do you think that someone has "won"? If someone has "won", who has "lost", and why?

 

What is the reason behind that obsession with the attack power? What is the reason that drives so many players to compare themselves with the other players and draw conclusions based only in that stupid number? Do you feel better with yourself if that stupid number is higher in your toon than in the toons of other people, or does it make you feel that you are superior or something in some way? Do you need to feel superior or something so badly that even a stupid number in a game can make the trick for you?

 

Why is it so hard for so many people to be a little friendly to new players? Why is it so hard to answer their questions without including the term "noob" in those answers? Why is it so hard to help them with the things they don't know or struggle with? Why is it so hard to explain mechanics and explain what was the mistake when a mistake was made without including insults in that explanation?

 

I have seen many times people who queue in cross server dungeons just to enter the dungeon and do absolutely nothing while the rest of the party tries to finish the dungeon. What is the point here? Don't you like playing the game? If you don't like it, why do you even log in? If you don't like the dungeon, why do you even queue for it? And for those who complete the dungeon regardless of these parasites, you are feeding them by doing so. There are still parasites because they get away with it. You are rewarding these parasites for parasiting you. Congratulations.

 

There are more things I still don't understand, but I guess these are just enough to begin with. Thank you all.

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I'll answer that in my opinion, might be different to others, so here we go :

1. Pay to Win is not translated as you pay to win something, but it's more like slang to a system where you pay and get advantage over non-paying people

browse google and see the top search, you'll know that the most people in the internet agree about the definition of Pay to Win.

 

2. AP is translated as "Higher succesful dungeon run chance" or "faster dungeon run" , People who has high AP is known to bear their title and lower chance to messed up because they already do the dungeon a lot of times. while low AP is the opposite, I know , I know , some of them is experienced or high AP alts, but AP requirements is like a noob filter.

let me ramble about people who crying high AP wont help low AP, so I know this guy who has around 550 AP and cry why we (600+) AP wont let him into 4m dungeon 600+ (maybe he can't read or make his own room lol) and then someone who has 450+ AP begging him help to carry / explain yeti dungeon, do you what he say? He say just beg to those 600+ AP player and throw more insult about 600+ AP LOL, talk about who doesn't want to help, it's him.

 

3. Because it's the internet, and people can't behave themselves, while in Korea (where the game originated), I heard when you use internet / play games, you use your IRL ID card, so people tend to be careful about what to say / behave because it can affect your real life, while in NA, it doesn't.

If you shocked about this, then Welcome to the internet.

to fix this attitude , NCSOFT need to put some active GM that chat in-game , so people feel someone has authority and thus behave themselves. for now it's lawless chaotic world.

 

4. It's the damned leechers, and they wont be here to read your rambling because they're :

- bots

- people who lazy and think that they better watch some videos doing other things and left their toon

- people who has connection issues

- people who doesn't care because no punishment handed to them when doing so

- people who play game and play other games while playing this game

 

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Good questions but I have no answer unfortunately.. 

 

Got kicked many times out the party because of the "elites" my AP is like almost 520 +/- healthy merely 60000, my progress goes so slow (need to farm gold and buy some expensive moonstones).. no SSP because the red dominate that, Mushin tower is hard with the above stats, 6 vs 6 sometimes I win and if your team lose sometimes you get a PM dude you suck upgrade your stuff.

 

To bad that eSport games make some people toxic (some elite think their are the best and if you lose the game for them they blame you that they have missed jackpot).

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25 minutes ago, Magobias said:

 

When you speak about "pay to win", what do you exactly mean by "win" in this game? When do you think that someone has "won"? If someone has "won", who has "lost", and why?

 

P2w here refers to selling gold then being able to buy  for exmples moonstones, which otherwise would take longer to get enough gold to buy em or time to farm em

 

27 minutes ago, Magobias said:

 

What is the reason behind that obsession with the attack power? What is the reason that drives so many players to compare themselves with the other players and draw conclusions based only in that stupid number? Do you feel better with yourself if that stupid number is higher in your toon than in the toons of other people, or does it make you feel that you are superior or something in some way? Do you need to feel superior or something so badly that even a stupid number in a game can make the trick for you?

 

Actually that's logical, the more AP=damage your party has, the easier/faster you clear such instance, nobody likes to spend more time than what it should have to. ofc ap is just a  part of what your real damage output is, but its the easy way to measure it. That way you only have to worry about if they know mechanichs or not.
Also gives you a better chance to not encounter bots, since most of them have below average equipment/stats.

 

48 minutes ago, Magobias said:

 

Why is it so hard for so many people to be a little friendly to new players? Why is it so hard to answer their questions without including the term "noob" in those answers? Why is it so hard to help them with the things they don't know or struggle with? Why is it so hard to explain mechanics and explain what was the mistake when a mistake was made without including insults in that explanation?

 

Stress, other players and more than annything, the previous experience of new players jumping into the game without even reading the forum when there are tons of fan pages, mmo pages and videos explaining most if not all what the game includes, lets remember this game isn't new therefore info is outthere,  and some questions can be answered with a simple google search, which most new players don't want to do. And if they are lazy enough to not want to look for it for themselves and then form a more specific question to the comunity they can't complain on ppl calling them names or making fun of what they do.

 

54 minutes ago, Magobias said:

 

I have seen many times people who queue in cross server dungeons just to enter the dungeon and do absolutely nothing while the rest of the party tries to finish the dungeon. What is the point here? Don't you like playing the game? If you don't like it, why do you even log in? If you don't like the dungeon, why do you even queue for it? And for those who complete the dungeon regardless of these parasites, you are feeding them by doing so. There are still parasites because they get away with it. You are rewarding these parasites for parasiting you. Congratulations.

 

*Bots, learn to spot them before you enter any dungeon

**Lazy players, either the dungeon is large and annoying and they have done it too many times but its a requisite to achieve something they want.
***Sleepy players, actual players that are the core of this game that try to complete any amount of missions/achievement/farm and have been playing all day, maybe all night too and can't help themselves but to just move foward from time to time after all the fights are done.

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pay to win:

-HUEHUE HE got something before me by paying!!!

- use 5bucks and have the same! (use 50bucks and have the same!)

- hell no, i go to have my beer. (hell no. i go to buy a new videogame now brb)

 

TL;DR: kids who whine because players who have a job (or money) spend it instead of time. yeah, as someone stated "ALL AND NOW".

 

 

ap:

the more the easier the dungeon. hoenstly, playing my second character at 540ap i find silly requirements for dungeons. but there is a thing that u have to take in consideration: "veterans" had to grind those dungeons so many times to have their equip that they hate now those dungeons. so they want to clear them faster. i find it sillier when u see lowbie being elitists about their poor ap. XD

 

frienship:

well, if u read some posts in other threads there are some player who say "i had to suffer, now it is your turn". which is really , really, stupid. so, OR u are lucky to find someone like me and others, or u have to deal with those...players

 

afkers:

i find them more in blue dungeons than heroics. because blues are bad designed silly dungeons. tainted lab is the most toxic dungeon by design and by players who join. potentially u can find a 6men afkers expect dungeon to clear itself.

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About people being unfriendly to new players, I agree with you. From my experience, the BNS community is just plain rude and unhelpful.

I have personally just helped a new player from about level 10 to 50, answering all his questions about items, reinforcing weapons, soulshields and I have helped him with dungeons and understanding the mechanics in for example Naryu Labyrinth and so on. This was not bothersome at all and seeing his quick character growth, he will most likely catch up to me so we can help eachother.

I don't understand why this is such a hard thing to do for others as it leads to positivity. 

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First of all, I want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts about the issues I brought up. I understand your points, but that leads me to some other doubts.

 

If "pay to win" has to be translated to "pay to get advantage", the question then is: what do you understand for having an "advantage" in this game? Since it is mostly a cooperative PVE based game, in what sense does it become a sort of "competition" in which someone has and "advantage" to "compete" better? Yes, I am aware of the problems in SSP, they are caused mostly by greed from some players and incompetence from NCSoft for a design which is extremely unfair (ceruleans in my server cluster have zero chances) and blatantly flawed (most players can't farm moonstones there regardless of faction). Whether those greedy people got their gear through a stupid amount of real money or a stupid amount of time because they don't have to work to earn real money is irrelevant, because the problem is not how they got the gear, the problem is how they decided to use that gear. So, leaving those problems aside, if it were well designed so that nobody could exploit the flaws in order to ruin the experience of the other players, where is the problem? I mean, if someone wants to spend a stupid amount of money to gear up his toons in order to be able to solo everything in the game without bothering anybody else, how does it hurt the other players?

 

About the ap, I am sorry, but I don't see the logic there. Faster runs? Smoother runs? Where is the fun in that? Do you really find it more enjoyable running like headless chickens and smashing the same sequence of buttons over and over again to melt down the bosses in five seconds without caring to do any mechanics at all? I understand that you prefer to have a successful run, that is reasonable, but there is a difference between having a successful run and melting down the bosses so quickly that it becomes utterly unchallenging. Things like these happen many times in many games, to the point where people end up confusing the means with the purpose. The ap is the means to experience the content, and experiencing the content is the purpose. Not the other way around. Because if you confuse them you end up playing only to get that stupid number higher and higher just for the sake of getting that number higher and higher because... well... that is our culture, right? More is better because... reasons... And then you rush through an utterly unchallenging content which therefore is not fun anymore, and you do it once and again, repeatedly, until you hate that content, and the only reason to keep on doing it is just to get that stupid number higher and higher because... well... that is our culture, right? More is better because... reasons... And then, eventually, you are burnt out, you have played a game for a year in which you really enjoyed only the first two or three months, and then you move to another game to just start the cycle again and repeat the whole process again. As I said before, I don't see the logic there.

 

If what you mean is that you want that stupid number higher so that you can do the 4 men dungeons then, ok, I can understand that. But in that case, why do some of these people even queue with the LFP option for the 6 men dungeons? And why do they complain when someone with a lower stupid number joins the party? Why do they even stop the search and kick somebody if they have the chance? Is it really because they want to do 4 men content or is it because they want to feel more important in some stupid or weird way for having a higher stupid number in a game than others?

 

And, please, don't misunderstand me. I have never bothered with the premade groups that have some sort of requirement for that stupid number, even if I meet that requirement. If they want to live within their own little circle it is their choice and they have absolute right to do so. In fact, I encourage them to do so, and I am extremely grateful to those who do so. Please, form your premade groups with whatever the requirement for that stupid number you want and don't use the LFP option, please. I really want to have fun in the dungeons, I really do.

 

Finally, regarding the issue of people being unfriendly to other players I think Viblo has provided us with the perfect answer, so I have nothing else to say about that.

 

¡Oh! Almost forgot. I have seen parasites even in 4 men runs, and that is extremely annoying.

 

Thank you all again.

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When you speak about "pay to win", what do you exactly mean by "win" in this game? When do you think that someone has "won"? If someone has "won", who has "lost", and why?

 

Lets say I just started playing this game today. If I can toss $1000 at this game to max level my character, my gear and my armor in all of 1 sec while it takes 1 full year for F2P to farm and max everything, that is pay to win. It is P2W because the F2P will never be able to compete with me. The minute F2P cannot easily compete with someone using cash to level is the minute it becomes P2W. If a F2P only has to farm for a week or 2 to catch me the card swipe player, then that is not P2W because a new level patch is not going to roll in that soon to set us apart. Thus allowing for F2P and card swipe player to play against or with each other fairly. 

 

 

 

 

Quote

What is the reason behind that obsession with the attack power? What is the reason that drives so many players to compare themselves with the other players and draw conclusions based only in that stupid number? Do you feel better with yourself if that stupid number is higher in your toon than in the toons of other people, or does it make you feel that you are superior or something in some way? Do you need to feel superior or something so badly that even a stupid number in a game can make the trick for you?

Its called elitism, and yes it does stroke their egos to do so.  

 

Some players are saying its because they want to get the dgn over with ASAP because it is a pain and they want to get back to their lives. If you hate a game so much that you want to get it over with, why on earth are you logging in and supporting such a game? This is not a job where you HAVE to show up to get paid. Its a game that you are supposed to ENJOY playing as a pastime. "I ask for 5656757856+ AP because I have a life and find dungeon grinding boring. I really just want to get this over with ASAP so I can return to my life." <----Say some players. Stop supporting boring games! Get you behind on the forums and tell NCsoft to fix the dgn grind and make it more interesting. Since when was gaming supposed to be tedious and painful? But I am getting off topic here. 

 

 

Quote

Why is it so hard for so many people to be a little friendly to new players? Why is it so hard to answer their questions without including the term "noob" in those answers? Why is it so hard to help them with the things they don't know or struggle with? Why is it so hard to explain mechanics and explain what was the mistake when a mistake was made without including insults in that explanation?

Not everyone is unfriendly in all honesty. Its just harder to find nice people than it is a mean person. But if I had to log onto a game I hated only to have to grind a dungeon I was sick to death of (because this is apparently my 9 to 5 job that I must do to live and feed my family), I suppose I too would harass new players and those weaker than me in some sort of attempt to spread misery and make myself feel better about my condemnation to a game I hate. 

 

All the sarcasm aside, sometimes players are just tired. Have you ever assisted new players before? There are a LOT of them, and many of them tend to ask the same questions over and over again. That can get a bit annoying. Not all the time, just when your tiered. In some cases new players just don't listen. You tell them DO NOT do xyz. You start the dungeon and poof they doing XY and Z and now your cleaning up their mistake. In most cases it makes for some great stories and hilarious remember that time moments. But when your tiered it just pisses you off. lol 

 

Aside from that, the ability to create a welcoming community full of high levels is up to us the player base. We can choose to breath life into the community or kill it. Having a job, a life, or whatever it is anybody has going on doesn't suddenly excuse our poor attitudes and yes this includes me with all my sarcasm. There is no excuse to be outright nasty and hateful to others especially new players who are the seeds of life to MMO's.

 

Quote

I have seen many times people who queue in cross server dungeons just to enter the dungeon and do absolutely nothing while the rest of the party tries to finish the dungeon. What is the point here? Don't you like playing the game? If you don't like it, why do you even log in? If you don't like the dungeon, why do you even queue for it? And for those who complete the dungeon regardless of these parasites, you are feeding them by doing so. There are still parasites because they get away with it. You are rewarding these parasites for parasiting you. Congratulations.

Those are usually bots.  

 

It is sometimes a sleeping player (I am so guilty of falling asleep while dungeoning), but often a sleeping player is found running into walls or some sort of movement that shows they are alive and fell asleep holding the W key. lol

 

The only other options are straight leeches. People who hate playing games, but derive some sort of pleasure out of torturing themselves to play one. Or just lazy people in general. 

Edited by .x.
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3 hours ago, Viblo said:

About people being unfriendly to new players, I agree with you. From my experience, the BNS community is just plain rude and unhelpful.

I have personally just helped a new player from about level 10 to 50, answering all his questions about items, reinforcing weapons, soulshields and I have helped him with dungeons and understanding the mechanics in for example Naryu Labyrinth and so on. This was not bothersome at all and seeing his quick character growth, he will most likely catch up to me so we can help eachother.

I don't understand why this is such a hard thing to do for others as it leads to positivity. 

Man I wish there were more like you around. I need to find a mentor since I'm level 41 and still have no idea what I'm doing. Finding a decent competitive guild isn't an option because they all want you to be Lv 50 and HM5+ (whatever the hm stuff means anyway). No one's willing to take on people trying to get good, you have to be magically good first. I don't want to use another guild just to do that.

Edited by PotatoPirate
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AP is more of a general way of putting your equipment level in short. Someone with 550+ Ap most probably has a good crit damage a good crit, because to get there you have to upgrade your accessories and weapon. Its usually used in cross-server to differentiate newbies with veterans. Might as well ask for HM level 10+ for your dungeons, same effect.

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1 hour ago, PotatoPirate said:

Man I wish there were more like you around. I need to find a mentor since I'm level 41 and still have no idea what I'm doing. Finding a decent competitive guild isn't an option because they all want you to be Lv 50 and HM5+ (whatever the hm stuff means anyway). No one's willing to take on people trying to get good, you have to be magically good first. I don't want to use another guild just to do that.

Ahh, thank you :') If you're playing on EU group three, you can add me to your friends list. My name is Azaethal. ^^

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i gotta chime in here as well  the games is evolving to were you cant just dps the new dungs with raw gear. yea we arent at that stage yet. only some dungeons are anti tank and spank . in a few points yes ap is a great factor for flitering out low dps. but at some point you wont be able ask just for AP you see even today ppl asking for (must show achivement

 or must have 10+ runs etc. but let me ask you this guys. the chart that shows you what your gear is rated for what dungeons  you can do sucessfully right is that right or wrong.

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ap:

If you are Hm10 and your ap is only 450, ppl regard you as bot. 

Daily is basically to collect gold and mats but too repetitive, if you run for a couple weeks is ok but months and months make ppl boring so they want finish it fast and log into other alt or other games.

 

friendly:

only gold sellers will try to make friend with you.

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The "pay 2 win" notion belief in this game is hilarious, you can't even buy the perfect Soul Shield or a brain. Those matter way more than having upgraded equipment, so there's not really much of a "win" with that now is there?

 

The whole attack power notion is ridiculous. All Asia servers don't have these stupid requirements; JP/TW don't have an inspect feature, while KR/CN simply don't care, I've seen people with 550 Attack Power sitting at 200/140% crit damage and they get a free pass despite being as strong as a level 45 in True Profane, and then they complain when someone in Oathbreaker weapon jumps in. I've gotten kicked, as a 647 Assassin, from 650 AP parties, because that stupid number means more than someone having 15-20% higher critical damage and Fighting Spirit. Also higher AP DOES NOT always mean experienced, they could have just cashed out their gear without even bothering to learn their class; I've been there in those 600s who constantly wipe to Ken/Gen, Volcano/Glacier, Asura, Umbral Lord, Widow Monstrosities, hell they even die to freaking Yeti, with 700 BMs not even hold aggro right and buffer classes throwing out their buffs at the wrong time and unsynced.

Similarly, saying "need FM" in Avalanche Den, when it's actually not required at all, just reeks of laziness as people would rather get frozen carried and not iframe themselves. I've actually gotten kicked just for that, despite the fact I can literally do everything the FM can and even potentially skip ice phase. I would rather not put my misguided faith in the FM, or even myself, because we can lag for whatever reason and end up botching the whole run.

 

I'm completely baffled that Blade and Soul has by far the worst community I've ever seen; I really want to see if the so-called "League of Legends community is worse than B&S" statements are true. Even if I do my part for group stealth and group saving, I've gotten insulted for no reason; likewise newbies sometimes don't seem to listen well to instructions. I've hosted multiple "Who cares about AP?" rooms and all the 500-600 elitists immediately leave upon seeing a 420, in a 6-man dungeon. And then we have the infamous firewall that high APs abuse against lower levels, along with being impatient in general.

Now as a Legendary Stage 3 Assassin whose played since launch I'm more than willing to mentor my fellow Sins and instruct people with the endgame content, and I'm more than willing to recruit low geared and low leveled players. However, if you aren't willing to put in the effort to learn, then I cannot help you.

 

I still stand that it's entirely the community's fault with almost every non-technical issue in the game, including the Moonstone marketing. Their greed and arrogance and even intention to disrupt Soulstone Plains is why we can't have nice things. All in all, the community is just rude and unhelpful.

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1) Pay to win really only matters in matters of PvP when it can't be obtained any other way but by paying.  I don't feel BnS has that yet, but it for sure has a Pay 2 Advance a little (alot?) faster feel.

 

2) For BnS it's AP, but don't fool yourself, every MMO has this, they just call it different things or look for different things in other MMOs.

 

3) Not all western MMOs have people who act like that as a majority of the populace, but they've all had the "Weak damage" lines in them and "Noob" lines as well.  However, I'd say it's because it's a F2P game.  Most of them don't have to care, because they're not paying anything.  Also, lots of meanies out there, when they can remain anon.  Though, I like it when people go "Noob" and you remember when they were the newbie.  :p  I get on to a friend all the time about how they act like that.

 

Of course, people also just get tired of trying to work with other people who just don't seem to try and when you see it from people you see regularly...well...impatience grows.

 

4) If a team of 6 joins a dungeon and one turns out to be an afker.  Then 5 of us can either exit to hope not to get an afker again or finish the dungeon and sometimes, it's just faster to finish the dungeon.

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7 hours ago, Magobias said:

First of all, I want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts about the issues I brought up. I understand your points, but that leads me to some other doubts.

 

If "pay to win" has to be translated to "pay to get advantage", the question then is: what do you understand for having an "advantage" in this game? Since it is mostly a cooperative PVE based game, in what sense does it become a sort of "competition" in which someone has and "advantage" to "compete" better? Yes, I am aware of the problems in SSP, they are caused mostly by greed from some players and incompetence from NCSoft for a design which is extremely unfair (ceruleans in my server cluster have zero chances) and blatantly flawed (most players can't farm moonstones there regardless of faction). Whether those greedy people got their gear through a stupid amount of real money or a stupid amount of time because they don't have to work to earn real money is irrelevant, because the problem is not how they got the gear, the problem is how they decided to use that gear. So, leaving those problems aside, if it were well designed so that nobody could exploit the flaws in order to ruin the experience of the other players, where is the problem? I mean, if someone wants to spend a stupid amount of money to gear up his toons in order to be able to solo everything in the game without bothering anybody else, how does it hurt the other players?

 

About the ap, I am sorry, but I don't see the logic there. Faster runs? Smoother runs? Where is the fun in that? Do you really find it more enjoyable running like headless chickens and smashing the same sequence of buttons over and over again to melt down the bosses in five seconds without caring to do any mechanics at all? I understand that you prefer to have a successful run, that is reasonable, but there is a difference between having a successful run and melting down the bosses so quickly that it becomes utterly unchallenging. Things like these happen many times in many games, to the point where people end up confusing the means with the purpose. The ap is the means to experience the content, and experiencing the content is the purpose. Not the other way around. Because if you confuse them you end up playing only to get that stupid number higher and higher just for the sake of getting that number higher and higher because... well... that is our culture, right? More is better because... reasons... And then you rush through an utterly unchallenging content which therefore is not fun anymore, and you do it once and again, repeatedly, until you hate that content, and the only reason to keep on doing it is just to get that stupid number higher and higher because... well... that is our culture, right? More is better because... reasons... And then, eventually, you are burnt out, you have played a game for a year in which you really enjoyed only the first two or three months, and then you move to another game to just start the cycle again and repeat the whole process again. As I said before, I don't see the logic there.

 

If what you mean is that you want that stupid number higher so that you can do the 4 men dungeons then, ok, I can understand that. But in that case, why do some of these people even queue with the LFP option for the 6 men dungeons? And why do they complain when someone with a lower stupid number joins the party? Why do they even stop the search and kick somebody if they have the chance? Is it really because they want to do 4 men content or is it because they want to feel more important in some stupid or weird way for having a higher stupid number in a game than others?

 

And, please, don't misunderstand me. I have never bothered with the premade groups that have some sort of requirement for that stupid number, even if I meet that requirement. If they want to live within their own little circle it is their choice and they have absolute right to do so. In fact, I encourage them to do so, and I am extremely grateful to those who do so. Please, form your premade groups with whatever the requirement for that stupid number you want and don't use the LFP option, please. I really want to have fun in the dungeons, I really do.

 

Finally, regarding the issue of people being unfriendly to other players I think Viblo has provided us with the perfect answer, so I have nothing else to say about that.

 

¡Oh! Almost forgot. I have seen parasites even in 4 men runs, and that is extremely annoying.

 

Thank you all again.

1. I already answer the Pay to Win definition and that stay like that because that what most internet agreed.

What you ask is not the definition, it's the application, there is : little to no pay to win, heavy pay to win, pure pay to win, etc whatever people want to call it

so Pay to Win has a degree & system so people can call it Pay to Win, is paying players get advantage (even a little to heavy) over non-paying players, its F2P game bussiness model. People tend to complain about the greediness of the game company not the model but people will yell the model because the word "Pay to Win" has negative connotation

For BNS case is because NCSOFT say that they wont sell materials in cash shop some time ago, and now they done it, so people feel they are betrayed and speculate that the future event & content is even more P2W (BNS became heavy P2W game)

 

2. You can't dictate how people should do and can't do, and there is no rule about LFP button, so just deal with it or make your own pre-made party. Me myself never use LFP button for purple dungeon (except when I desperate because noone joining in), because it's random and I don't like random, I want a safe & fast run.

also people has their own preference , you like challenging & experience the content by your way, while other people just want fast & safe run, and other people just want to troll , other want to help newbies, etc.

actually pre-made group is big circle.

 

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