Moonstones in the cash shop show your priorities

[Magobias]

First of all, I am perfectly aware that you are a company, and I am perfectly aware that the final goal of every company is to earn money, and that is absolutely legit. Howerver, some of the ways to earn money can be considered more legit than others, and some of them can even be considered a fraud.

 

For example, if a company creates a high quality product that results more attractive to the potential customers than other products of the same type then that high quality product will be well received and the company will make money out of it. That would be considered a legit way of earning money. However, if that company deliberately introduces flaws in some parts of that product in order to get their customers coming back and spending more money than what would be required if those flaws had been solved before, then that might be considered a fraudulent way of earning money. Do you see where I want to go with this?

 

Yes, I am speaking about the problems in Soulstone plains and your decision to sell the moonstones in the cash shop. I don't know if you created the problem in ssp deliberately in order to milk your players. I am just sharing my thoughts with the community here, and I have to say that the whole issue smells pretty bad. Because that decision shows your priorities: your first priority is to milk the players, while the quality of your game stays in a second place at best. If you had fixed the problems in ssp before selling moonstones in the cash shop I would have nothing to say about it, because then you would have proven clearly that your first priority is the quality of the game. But you have failed miserably to do so.

 

All of that makes me wonder: why is the game still so poorly optimized? Is it because you can't do better or is it because that seemingly little flaw might give you other chances to blatantly milk your players again in the future? Right now, I don't know what to think, really. My first thought was to quit the game, but since I payed for a one year subscription in advance I have decided to stay and keep sharing my thoughts with the community here for each and every decision you make in the future, at least until my subscription expires. That said, don't expect to get a dime from me again unless you demonstrate clearly that your first priority is the quality of your game.

 

I really hope I am wrong and all of this has been an unfortunate coincidence. If this is the case, please, prove it. Please, prove me wrong. In fact, I dare you to prove me wrong. There is an easy way to do so: stop selling the moonstones in the cash shop until you provide your game with a good and reliable fix for the problems in Soulstone plains.

 

Nothing else. Have a good day.

[aSin]

it only on cash shop for 3 days.....

lets they earn some money...so we can have more contents and patch coming.

[Cherish]

OP you are 100% correct.

 

I logged in this morning to clannies telling me my prediction for the weekend bundle was correct.  I opened up the store UI and NCsoft had set in concrete my decision to stop spending money on this game.  They have deliberately gated access to moonstones in the abundance we need to upgrade weapons and accessories.  To now put a supposed bundle of 10 moonstones and 5 corals in the store is like a neon light over their heads saying ** Come on in Sucker **.

 

My wallet is tightly closed from here on in and my gaming budget will be put aside to build up for when Revelation is released.  I am more than happy to support a game I enjoy playing until this type of basic gougeing rears its ugly head.  10 moonstones and 5 corals for something that costs them nothing that they have purposefully inflated the game price of is absolute .................................................

 

Another customer bites the dust and walks away dusting herself off smiling at the money she will now save.  I'm not a whale but I have been Prem 10 since a few weeks after the game went live :D

[KlausFlouride]

By your logic the moonstones on the AH are also p2w.

[Magobias]

27 minutes ago, KlausFlouride said:

By your logic the moonstones on the AH are also p2w.

Please, tell me, where in my post am I speaking about "p2w"? Because that is not the issue here. The issue is that the quality of the game is not the priority for NCSoft and the possibility that they are deliberately producing flaws in the game in order to milk the players. Is it really that hard to understand or are you just trolling?

[Nattia]

it's only for the weekend, it will be gone soon, why do you cry...

[Shadovvv]

Honestly, I believe that these problems stem from your doubt and lack of faith for NCSoft. Would you rather have companies like Nexon run B&S, who add P2W elements (e.g. Cubing in MapleStory, Reforges in Mabinogi, Break Prevention Stones in Vindictus, etc.), closed a number of games (e.g. Dungeon Fighter Online), never really implemented anything based on their playerbase's feedback, leave hackers/botters roaming about, and even take nearly an entire year for updates (Mabinogi's last major update spanned nine months between July 2015 and April 2016)?

 

At least NCSoft is actively trying their hardest for B&S. The game has monthly updates, drastically lessened the number of hackers/botters, and NCSoft actually listened to NA/EU players and added things that weren't originally even in Asia servers. They kept the Siren/Pirate Weapon path intact for a few months, slapped Asura's Brand Resist on Awakened Oath Belt, modified the whole Gem Slot system to not downgrade anymore on reaching Silverfrost-tier weapon, and implemented methods to obtain Hongmoon Skills through Arena and Whirlwind Valley. They even removed Soulstone Plain weapon boxes, nerfed Soulstone Plain field mob's HP (including Terror), and even added new loot tables to Mushin's Tower Floor 14/15. They even threw events that showered endgame materials so people could catch up, and constantly announced, showcased, streamed, and hosted Q&As. If none of this occurred, the game would probably have been "dead" long ago.

 

You may see their actions as a flaw, but at least try to have a positive outlook. As far as I see, the server merge is to fill the spaces in low populated servers; no one really does the low leveled green dungeons, or heck our current 24-mans like Zaiwei Ruins, so bringing more people together would possibly alleviate that. With Soulstone Plains, more crowded channels potentially means more channels being available, and thus more Konta/Suljin/Grindtooth.

 

Any issue that arises seems to be almost entirely of the fault of the NA/EU playerbase. From someone in the computer science department for only a few years, I can understand that games needs time to weigh and code their options. However, the community's greed, impatience, and arrogance has pretty much sprouted the whole Moonstone "issue." It's been said countless times, by both NCSoft and the experienced playerbase, that Legendary Weapons and Soul Shield and Elemental Awakened Oblivion/Binding Accessories, are not required for the content in the rest of the year, so you have no reason to rush at all. Instead, the community decides to mindlessly zerg Soulstone Plains, grief and troll for no one's benefit, and never come to an agreeable compromise that aids everyone; meanwhile all Asia servers unanimously agreed to have their factions mind their own businesses. Plus, the "we want more Frozen Stinger income" desired by the community ultimately backfired, which, by the notion of economics 101, resulted in mass inflation of Moonstones as Stingers are no longer a good source of profit. It's quite clear that majority of the playerbase doesn't appreciate the good of what NCSoft has brought to the game, and instead have to pull this spiteful crap and continue to breed negativity.

 

Sure not everything is topsy turvey, I don't necessarily agree with some stuff like the localization that created undesirable things in the storyline, but at least NCSoft hasn't been sitting on their butts eating potato chips and watching their games collapse.

[RoyalMiku]

31 minutes ago, Nattia said:

it's only for the weekend, it will be gone soon, why do you cry...

Because it's show NCSOFT priorities which is cash cowing this game till dead

If you can't get it , lemme explain :

- RNG box (no need to explain)

- Trove event need monies to be effectively profiting you

- Corallite casino event , the RNG is bad, I never had stage 6 but had like 5-6 stage 5 and all break when upgraded , you can say "but I get stage 7 & 8 , go cry some more kekekek" yea yea, but I didn't get it and its the truth so thats for you

-  Soulstones & coralite at cash shop -> ncsoft start selling gear progression mats (P2W) but people seems to think that the coralite is more value than soulstones, so it's like "coralite pack" and they ok with that

- Moonstones & coralite at cash shop -> same as above , but now the priorities is clear

Next week we might have honorary ornaments / stingers pack at cash shop , this shows the NCsoft priorities which going to more P2W

 

Why it's P2W ??? loooll ok i'll explain

Gear progression is the core of this game, and you NEED to do game contents so your gear can progress, but now, you can pay to skip all that grind & contents and maybe in the future they'll sell legendary gear too 

problem is : the contents is barely balance and moonstones is very hard to get, it's almost miracle if you can get one with low ap character (by doing contents)

then NCSOFT sell moonstones on cash shop, this mean they want unbalanced contents so players resort to P2W :^)

 

about stingers... (let me rambling about this too) stinger drop so common in the new 4m dungeon, it can drop 10-20 stinger each run and you got silverfrost seeds which give more stingers, that's why the price crashed because me and other high ap people farm new 4m dungeon for offal but got ton of stingers instead

[InstantDeath]

During closed beta, they promised that BnS wouldn't be another Aion, that they wouldn't sell upgrade materials in cash shop. Obviously, they started with Siren Emblem & Hae Mujin Machismos which really didn't bother me because weapon upgrade path changed and new players needed a hand. And then they started to sell event materials ( corallites ), soulstones and moonstones. I believe, in 2 months, we'll see a rng box which contains silverfrost premium stones and later they'll start selling them in cash shop.

To be honest, there's nothing we can do about it. If you don't like it, just quit playing. As for me, i keep playing because there's nothing else to play. But there are 2 mmorpgs that i've been waiting for. Once they are released i'll say goodbye to BnS once and for all.

[Magobias]

33 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Honestly, I believe that these problems stem from your doubt and lack of faith for NCSoft. Would you rather have companies like Nexon run B&S, who add P2W elements (e.g. Cubing in MapleStory, Reforges in Mabinogi, Break Prevention Stones in Vindictus, etc.), closed a number of games (e.g. Dungeon Fighter Online), never really implemented anything based on their playerbase's feedback, leave hackers/botters roaming about, and even take nearly an entire year for updates (Mabinogi's last major update spanned nine months between July 2015 and April 2016)?

 

At least NCSoft is actively trying their hardest for B&S. The game has monthly updates, drastically lessened the number of hackers/botters, and NCSoft actually listened to NA/EU players and added things that weren't originally even in Asia servers. They kept the Siren/Pirate Weapon path intact for a few months, slapped Asura's Brand Resist on Awakened Oath Belt, modified the whole Gem Slot system to not downgrade anymore on reaching Silverfrost-tier weapon, and implemented methods to obtain Hongmoon Skills through Arena and Whirlwind Valley. They even removed Soulstone Plain weapon boxes, nerfed Soulstone Plain field mob's HP (including Terror), and even added new loot tables to Mushin's Tower Floor 14/15. They even threw events that showered endgame materials so people could catch up, and constantly announced, showcased, streamed, and hosted Q&As. If none of this occurred, the game would probably have been "dead" long ago.

 

You may see their actions as a flaw, but at least try to have a positive outlook. As far as I see, the server merge is to fill the spaces in low populated servers; no one really does the low leveled green dungeons, or heck our current 24-mans like Zaiwei Ruins, so bringing more people together would possibly alleviate that. With Soulstone Plains, more crowded channels potentially means more channels being available, and thus more Konta/Suljin/Grindtooth.

 

Any issue that arises seems to be almost entirely of the fault of the NA/EU playerbase. From someone in the computer science department for only a few years, I can understand that games needs time to weigh and code their options. However, the community's greed, impatience, and arrogance has pretty much sprouted the whole Moonstone "issue." It's been said countless times, by both NCSoft and the experienced playerbase, that Legendary Weapons and Soul Shield and Elemental Awakened Oblivion/Binding Accessories, are not required for the content in the rest of the year, so you have no reason to rush at all. Instead, the community decides to mindlessly zerg Soulstone Plains, grief and troll for no one's benefit, and never come to an agreeable compromise that aids everyone; meanwhile all Asia servers unanimously agreed to have their factions mind their own businesses. Plus, the "we want more Frozen Stinger income" desired by the community ultimately backfired, which, by the notion of economics 101, resulted in mass inflation of Moonstones as Stingers are no longer a good source of profit. It's quite clear that majority of the playerbase doesn't appreciate the good of what NCSoft has brought to the game, and instead have to pull this spiteful crap and continue to breed negativity.

 

Sure not everything is topsy turvey, I don't necessarily agree with some stuff like the localization that created undesirable things in the storyline, but at least NCSoft hasn't been sitting on their butts eating potato chips and watching their games collapse.

Thank you Shawovv for bringing up some of the reasons that convinced me to support this game with my money. I have played some other MMO's for more than 10 years now, mainly subscription based games, and you are absolutely right in one thing: most of the problems I found in those games were caused by the community's greed, impatience and arrogance. The way those problems were solved, however, was quite different than this particular one: they implemented fixes in the game so that those greedy members of the community could not keep on with their ways, and they did it in quite a short time (two or three weeks after the first complains began to arise), rather than selling the items required in the cash shop as a first measure.

 

So yes, I don't have much faith in NCSoft right now, but it is their fault, not mine. I usually judge people or companies by their acts, not by their words, and while some of their acts made them trustworthy enough for me to invest money to support them, this last act makes me think that maybe they were not as trustworthy as I thought they were.

 

Thank you again.

[Lunakitty]

Think about this: How is it any different if the players buy the moonstones with straight  NCoin purchase instead of market? You do realize we can sell gold for NCoins (we gain Hongmoon Coins) and those who buy gold can simply buy them from market. It is exactly the same thing but the players won't be the ones getting Hongmoon coins now that they are only for 3 days in Hongmoon Store. It doesn't matter if the "whales" buy them like this since they would anyway get them from market by purchasing gold with NCoins.

[Cherish]

19 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

Think about this: How is it any different if the players buy the moonstones with straight  NCoin purchase instead of market? You do realize we can sell gold for NCoins (we gain Hongmoon Coins) and those who buy gold can simply buy them from market. It is exactly the same thing but the players won't be the ones getting Hongmoon coins now that they are only for 3 days in Hongmoon Store. It doesn't matter if the "whales" buy them like this since they would anyway get them from market by purchasing gold with NCoins.

IF a player wants to sell their real money for game gold then it BENEFITS F2P people in that they can purchase items they otherwise would not have got.  Yes there are Hongmoon Coins in the game but you would need a lifetime to purchase much with the amount they drop.  To my way of thinking the Currency Exchange is good for both the whales and the f2p players. 

 

NCsoft have deliberately made Moonstones a sought after item by limiting the amount available.  Now they come along and put those items that are so hard to get ingame in their cash shop and people honestly think we should be grateful?  It will be very amusing  to check back in on these forums in months to come and see all you people defending them crying about how P2W the game has become.

 

The OP is correct in his statement that by NCsoft limiting the amount of items they release into the game they have established a market for them to fleece more money out of their players.  NCsoft keep saying they are working to fix things and I guess if you are happy to accept their best solution is to make players buy what should be available in game then so be it.

[IDontHaveARealName]

Lmao, the whining in this forum is so bad.

 

How does adding Moonstones to F10 hurt the game again?

 

Wallet warriors are happy because they can sell them for Gold and get Corallite for the event.

Casual Players can buy with Hongmoon Coins in the store.

F2P players now can buy Moonstones cheaper from the market (they were 30 silver cheaper and falling last time I checked).

 

You want to know why your Moonwater Transformation Stones are so cheap? Go look at what you need to make them. Moonwater Tears. Not too long ago, you could only but 10 from F10 for 99 Ncoins a day. Now you can buy up to 200 for 49 NCoins. What happened to the price? It dropped by half from 1 gold to 50 Silver. Explain to me how Moonstones are bad again for F10?

[Grimstar]

NCWest should be ashamed, first they sell soulstones in cash shop, now moonstones... They added moonstones to naksun droplist, which 90% of low ap players will NEVER get, SSP with 3 channels aint solving anything either, even for myself with 650 ap as a fm, its hard getting a boar chest for keys, so new players can forget that to.

GG NCWest u really know what u are doing, why dont u sell premium silverfrost stones in cash shop to while ure at it?

[Magobias]

1 hour ago, IDontHaveARealName said:

Lmao, the whining in this forum is so bad.

 

How does adding Moonstones to F10 hurt the game again?

 

Wallet warriors are happy because they can sell them for Gold and get Corallite for the event.

Casual Players can buy with Hongmoon Coins in the store.

F2P players now can buy Moonstones cheaper from the market (they were 30 silver cheaper and falling last time I checked).

 

You want to know why your Moonwater Transformation Stones are so cheap? Go look at what you need to make them. Moonwater Tears. Not too long ago, you could only but 10 from F10 for 99 Ncoins a day. Now you can buy up to 200 for 49 NCoins. What happened to the price? It dropped by half from 1 gold to 50 Silver. Explain to me how Moonstones are bad again for F10?

It looks like you have some difficulties to understand written text, so let me help you a bit, ¿ok? In my third paragraph I say this:

 

"that decision shows your priorities: your first priority is to milk the players, while the quality of your game stays in a second place at best. If you had fixed the problems in ssp before selling moonstones in the cash shop I would have nothing to say about it, because then you would have proven clearly that your first priority is the quality of the game."

 

So, let me say it once again: that decision shows that the first priority is to milk the players while the quality of the game stays in a second place at best. I would have no problem at all with moonstones in the cash shop if the problems in ssp had been fixed.

 

Have I made it clear now? Have I got that through or do I have to make a diagram for you?

[Grimstar]

23 minutes ago, IDontHaveARealName said:

Lmao, the whining in this forum is so bad.

 

How does adding Moonstones to F10 hurt the game again?

 

Wallet warriors are happy because they can sell them for Gold and get Corallite for the event.

Casual Players can buy with Hongmoon Coins in the store.

F2P players now can buy Moonstones cheaper from the market (they were 30 silver cheaper and falling last time I checked).

 

You want to know why your Moonwater Transformation Stones are so cheap? Go look at what you need to make them. Moonwater Tears. Not too long ago, you could only but 10 from F10 for 99 Ncoins a day. Now you can buy up to 200 for 49 NCoins. What happened to the price? It dropped by half from 1 gold to 50 Silver. Explain to me how Moonstones are bad again for F10?

U really are a white knight arent u? Instead of solving the problem INGAME, u find it ok for NCWest to sell stuff in their cash shop to solve the problem?? Where is the logic in that?

The prices ingame shouldnt drop cause of cash shop items, they should drop by ingame drops..

[Lunakitty]

16 minutes ago, Grimstar said:

U really are a white knight arent u? Instead of solving the problem INGAME, u find it ok for NCWest to sell stuff in their cash shop to solve the problem?? Where is the logic in that?

The prices ingame shouldnt drop cause of cash shop items, they should drop by ingame drops..

It is not solving the problem. This is more like promotion sale only for the weekend. After that they won't offer moonstones in F10 for a long while for sure. Complain rather more about fabrics that cannot be gotten any way from ingame. Only by those who salvage outfits.

[Taikuya]

It is impossible to please all your customers.

 

If you are a forum regular, you will know:

1. People were asking if moonstones can be put into the cash shop. Well now they are. Unfortunately by making one target audience happy, it is now upsetting another.

 

2. People were saying do not put moonstones in the cash shop, because it is an end game item and you should be farming for it -- you shouldn't be able to simply buy it with NCOIN.

 

--

 

3. People were saying it is too hard to obtain moonstones and this should be fixed. People feel like there is a "need" to upgrade at a fast rate, and if they can't, this means there is a "problem" with the game.

 

4. People were saying that moonstones should be hard to obtain, because it is an end game item. You can already do all 6-member dungeons (including Sogun's Lament -- currently the hardest dungeon) with 500 AP. This AP doesn't require a shit tonne of moonstones to achieve. Anything above 500 AP is a luxury to complete dungeons more "quickly" and is not a necessity. Luxury items should be difficult to achieve and take time.

 

Some people are behind point 1 or 2, and some are behind points 3 or 4. You can't please everyone...

 

I do wonder sometimes; for the people complaining about how difficult (i.e. slow) it is to upgrade equipment:

1. What is your AP (approximately) ?; and

2. Do you actually have problems completing dungeons with people around your AP? If yes what is the reason? Are you hitting the enrage timer? I wonder this because I fail to understand how a party of 500 AP players can't complete Sogun's Lament. I've done it myself in the past (when Sogun's Lament just came out) with a party of 500-510 AP players.

[IDontHaveARealName]

53 minutes ago, Magobias said:

It looks like you have some difficulties to understand written text, so let me help you a bit, ¿ok? In my third paragraph I say this:

 

"that decision shows your priorities: your first priority is to milk the players, while the quality of your game stays in a second place at best. If you had fixed the problems in ssp before selling moonstones in the cash shop I would have nothing to say about it, because then you would have proven clearly that your first priority is the quality of the game."

 

So, let me say it once again: that decision shows that the first priority is to milk the players while the quality of the game stays in a second place at best. I would have no problem at all with moonstones in the cash shop if the problems in ssp had been fixed.

 

Have I made it clear now? Have I got that through or do I have to make a diagram for you?

You obviously have a rudimentary understanding of economics, so let me help you a bit, ok?

 

The more of supply of an item there is, the lower the prices will be. Now that I just checked, prices are down 50 Silver from before F10. Let me explain this in further detail for you. Prices. Went. Down. Clear? Ok, Good. Not only did I tell you about Moonwater Tears being cheaper due to F10, but you are so head strong that you think you should cry at every single instance of not getting items that you don't even see that F10 is good for cheap asses like yourself. More supply equals lower prices.

 

Do I need to draw a diagram for you now? Or did you actually grow a brain cell that works with another brain cell?

[PhoenixMitra]

Greetings,

 

This is a friendly reminder to keep your posts civil and refrain from personal attacks. Please focus on debating the posts, not the posters.

 

Team Blade & Soul 

[Magobias]

20 minutes ago, Taikuya said:

It is impossible to please all your customers.

 

If you are a forum regular, you will know:

1. People were asking if moonstones can be put into the cash shop. Well now they are. Unfortunately by making one target audience happy, it is now upsetting another.

 

2. People were saying do not put moonstones in the cash shop, because it is an end game item and you should be farming for it -- you shouldn't be able to simply buy it with NCOIN.

 

--

 

3. People were saying it is too hard to obtain moonstones and this should be fixed. People feel like there is a "need" to upgrade at a fast rate, and if they can't, this means there is a "problem" with the game.

 

4. People were saying that moonstones should be hard to obtain, because it is an end game item. You can already do all 6-member dungeons (including Sogun's Lament -- currently the hardest dungeon) with 500 AP. This AP doesn't require a shit tonne of moonstones to achieve. Anything above 500 AP is a luxury to complete dungeons more "quickly" and is not a necessity. Luxury items should be difficult to achieve and take time.

 

Some people are behind point 1 or 2, and some are behind points 3 or 4. You can't please everyone...

 

I do wonder sometimes; for the people complaining about how difficult (i.e. slow) it is to upgrade equipment:

1. What is your AP (approximately) ?; and

2. Do you actually have problems completing dungeons with people around your AP? If yes what is the reason? Are you hitting the enrage timer? I wonder this because I fail to understand how a party of 500 AP players can't complete Sogun's Lament. I've done it myself in the past (when Sogun's Lament just came out) with a party of 500-510 AP players.

I mostly agree with you. I wrote this post just yesterday morning, check it out:

 

 

It is not a question of pleasing one group of players over another. The question is that it seems that they are trying to take advantage of a problem in their game to milk the players instead of solving the problem in the first place. It seems that they are trying to deceive us and, to be honest, looking at the answers of some people I would say that they are being pretty successful at it.

[Shukran]

i dont know...

 

moonstones are needed for "high end equipment".

 

"high end" dungeons that need moonstones upgrade are "few".

 

i preferred if they put moonstones as daily reward in silverfrost heroic dungeons more than p2get those items.

[Taikuya]

2 minutes ago, Magobias said:

It is not a question of pleasing one group of players over another. The question is that it seems that they are trying to take advantage of a problem in their game to milk the players instead of solving the problem in the first place. It seems that they are trying to deceive us and, to be honest, looking at the answers of some people I would say that they are being pretty successful at it.

I just want to increase some awareness around the following points:

1. Times have changed and the way games make money have also changed. In the past games were mainly subscription based, these days it is more profitable (could be argued) to obtain money through micro transactions (e.g. games like League of Legends make a shit tonne of money through micro transactions).

 

2. So this game is free-to-play (i.e. you can download the game, login and play for free), so the way they make money is through micro transactions (i.e. cash shop).

 

3. You say that people are being "milked", but I disagree. People who buy items from the cash shop made that choice, they are not forced too. Based on the forum posts, the general perception seems to be: only "whales" can afford items from the cash shop and this only benefits them.

 

4. In regards to point 3, do you agree with me when I say:

(a) When these "whales" use real-money to buy items (such as moonstones and soulstones) from the cash shop, it lowers the cost of these items in the Marketplace?

(b) If the price is lowered, that means it also benefits players who choose to play the game without spending any money. It allows them to also purchase these materials at a lower price to upgrade their equipment. Do we still agree?

(c) So the "whales" (as the forums call them) will have much better gear, and they can party among themselves to do dungeons. And the free-to-play players with less upgraded gear and also party among themselves to do dungeons. Do we also agree with this point?

 

This just means there are 2 types of players now; some of them choose to only party with other players of the same type (i.e. paying players will party with paying players), and free players can party with free players. Of course this is a rather extreme example and you obviously have all types of players partying with each other. But the point I am trying to make is, if the paying players (i.e. who have much higher AP) choose to party with other high AP players (i.e. other paying players) then why is that a problem? Free-to-play players can just party among themselves right? And they also benefit from materials being added to the cash shop. It's a win-win isn't it?

 

Now of course I am speaking purely from a "dungeon" point of view. If you are talking about people who want to PVP in the open world or in the whirlwind battleground, then yes, this obviously creates a problem. However, based on your original post, if you are just trying to upgrade gear to do dungeons, then by adding moonstones to the cash shop, it technically did solve your problem. But if you were trying to upgrade gear to do whirlwind valley, then I agree it isn't solving your problem.

 

[KlausFlouride]

I party with whomever regardless. You can't definitively tell by looking at someones gear if they pay for anything or not. I know a guy that already has stage 5 legendary weapon, he basically lives in SSP and does nothing else.

[Magobias]

57 minutes ago, Taikuya said:

I just want to increase some awareness around the following points:

1. Times have changed and the way games make money have also changed. In the past games were mainly subscription based, these days it is more profitable (could be argued) to obtain money through micro transactions (e.g. games like League of Legends make a shit tonne of money through micro transactions).

 

2. So this game is free-to-play (i.e. you can download the game, login and play for free), so the way they make money is through micro transactions (i.e. cash shop).

 

3. You say that people are being "milked", but I disagree. People who buy items from the cash shop made that choice, they are not forced too. Based on the forum posts, the general perception seems to be: only "whales" can afford items from the cash shop and this only benefits them.

 

4. In regards to point 3, do you agree with me when I say:

(a) When these "whales" use real-money to buy items (such as moonstones and soulstones) from the cash shop, it lowers the cost of these items in the Marketplace?

(b) If the price is lowered, that means it also benefits players who choose to play the game without spending any money. It allows them to also purchase these materials at a lower price to upgrade their equipment. Do we still agree?

(c) So the "whales" (as the forums call them) will have much better gear, and they can party among themselves to do dungeons. And the free-to-play players with less upgraded gear and also party among themselves to do dungeons. Do we also agree with this point?

 

This just means there are 2 types of players now; some of them choose to only party with other players of the same type (i.e. paying players will party with paying players), and free players can party with free players. Of course this is a rather extreme example and you obviously have all types of players partying with each other. But the point I am trying to make is, if the paying players (i.e. who have much higher AP) choose to party with other high AP players (i.e. other paying players) then why is that a problem? Free-to-play players can just party among themselves right? And they also benefit from materials being added to the cash shop. It's a win-win isn't it?

 

Now of course I am speaking purely from a "dungeon" point of view. If you are talking about people who want to PVP in the open world or in the whirlwind battleground, then yes, this obviously creates a problem. However, based on your original post, if you are just trying to upgrade gear to do dungeons, then by adding moonstones to the cash shop, it technically did solve your problem. But if you were trying to upgrade gear to do whirlwind valley, then I agree it isn't solving your problem.

 

Well, now that I see what people mean by "whale" I don't know really how to classify myself XD. Because I have paid a one year subscription to support the game, since I know it is a free to play game, but I like it, I have the money and I think it is fair to give the developers some money in return for their job.

 

However I don't have any high ap toon, and I don't care since my main toon has more than enough to do all of the current content in the game, and I don't care if I group with subscribers or free to play players, and I don't care if some members of the party in a dungeon have low ap since, most of the times, the whole group has more than enough on average as a group, and if there is not enough I don't care either, I just explain the mechanics if there is something to explain and enjoy making some tries regardless of success or failure because, at the end of the day, I just play for fun and, in that sense, having my toon dead is not a huge problem for me.

 

So, moving to your points, I agree completely on 1 and 2. There are, however, some things regarding points 3 and 4 that you have not considered:

About point 3, I say people are being "milked" because the main source for moonstones in the game has a lot of problems right now, mainly because of the greed of some members of the community, yes, but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of problems there and the first thing that should be done about it is to fix those problems. But they haven't fixed anything, they have just started to sell the moonstones in the cash shop. So, yes, my conclusion remains the same: they are milking the players.

 

The point 4 is irrelevant to the issue. I agree on 4.a, 4.b and 4.c, but that's not the point. I have said it before: I would have no problem at all seeing moonstones in the cash shop if the problems of soulstone plains had been fixed. Actually, if the problems in soulstone plains had been fixed I might even buy some moonstones in the cash shop if I feel too tired to farm them, or if I am not in the mood for it. However, there is no way I am going to spend a dime on this game unless NCSoft show a proper concern for the quality of the game rather than the wallets of the players. No way.

 

So I guess there is a third type of player here: someone who is willing to support the developers for a good product but is not going to swallow anything that the company throws at him. And you are right when you say that a lower price for the moonstones in the AH would benefit me as well, you are absolutely right, but I am not going to get into that kind of game. I will not buy any moonstone from any place until the problems in ssp have been solved, so the progression of my toons is mostly in stand by, and I don't care. I will not buy moonstones from the cash shop to reward NCSoft for milking the players instead of fixing the problems, and I am not going to buy moonstones from the AH to reward either those who are creating the problems in ssp in the first place or those who just bought them from the cash shop because... yes, who cares what is right or what is wrong. Maybe I am quite alone in this third type of player group but, you know what? I don't care either. I guess that's just how I am.