Server transfers?

[Raizou]

 

 

[Elyann]

On 28/7/2016 at 10:56 PM, NC Elusive said:

Hey there,

 

No, there won't be region transfers. North American and Europe servers all reside in what's known as a universe - the North American servers are in the NA Universe, the European servers are in the EU Universe. Each operate completely separately from the other; consider that there is only one "Batman" in North America and only one "Batman" in Europe.

It is physically impossible to move a character from one Universe to another without some significant screw ups along the way.

 

To go more technical, each character you create in NA has an identifier - a primary key - that is unique and individual and only one exists in the entire universe. However, these character ids are generated sequentially; so character number 000001 for example, there's one on NA and one on EU. Moving character 000001 from NA will run the risk of overriding character 000001 on EU. Now it's not as simple as moving the character id, since that ID also calls up other database information, like equipment, mail, crafting orders, PvP ranking, clan membership, quest lines, etc, etc. tied to the character.

 

So unfortunately, you will need to start again afresh in the EU region with a new character. However, your Master Pack items will be there as we delivered them to both NA and EU universes.

Master pack items will but any other items will not. That's the reason why no one would ever feel like restarting in a different region and they prefer to quit the game instead. Some cosmetic items in particular were sold from your company for a limited time only , why should I....your paying customer...be forced to feel like I threw my money into the toilet cause I wanted to play with my friends from another region ? Not to talk about the time and efforts it takes to level and gear up a character....cause you know...it takes months and months and months.
Anyway, talking about Batman / universes / character specific key...I agree on the fact that it's something hard to do but as you stated, it's not impossible, it's a matter of finding or creating an available key.
I do posses the same names even on EU so no risk to overwrite those either...I think it would just be a matter of reworking the keys system.

[studioMagicalFox]

On 8/8/2016 at 2:59 PM, KanekiKen said:

What of the player code 00001 bla bla bla is easily programmable and changeable nick.

 

On 8/8/2016 at 7:52 PM, Hamoud said:

And you actually think its impossible to create a new generated numbers for the transfered accounts? :D

And to all the other responses by people who think changing the primary key of a database table, where that primary key is used to link dozens/hundreds of other sub-tables is as easy as typing in another number and you are good to go. Just stop with it, you don't have any idea what you are talking about. First when a RDMS creates a primary key for a record, it is hard-wired. A programmer cannot edit the database and change the primary key without deleting the record and recreating it from scratch. Primary_Key is itself a data type, it's not the same as an integer value. These keys are not editable for a reason. It's because they are used as the value which links the record's main table to other tables in the same or other databases. Like the dev. who posted described, these sub-tables contain data related to the main character, inventory for example. These sub-tables would be orphaned if the primary key were to be changed. Let us just say for a second that the primary key could be edited. It would just be a matter of hiring a programmer to root out and hand edit every single one of the dozens/hundreds of tables that link to the primary one, or the same programmer could write a custom tool to do the job. Well programmers are super cheap to employ and most of them sit around all day with nothing to do so no problem there. Just charge it to the guy who is getting his character transferred, he probably has deep pockets. Wait, the system might depend on the existing key values to remain sequential and it might be a problem if a hole appears somewhere. Wait, there are tons of other problems that might arise from this as well. Hmm, well it might be a good idea to shut the game down while they figure it out, the players won't mind. It's a good thing it's not possible to edit a primary key, whew! Those who do not know what they are talking about should perhaps pause and think before asserting how easy this thing they know nothing about would be to do.

 

 

[LadyOfShalot]

muhmm this thread is a joke btw because region transfers can and do happen its just a matter of not being so perfect in making keys ectra. I mean realy do we need special stuff for our toons for each region we are on? that's just realy ridculose when the toons are on the same dam account think about it why make key what evers when you have them on same account makes no sense to me but yea I'm no pc genouse or nothing but I'm defently not dumb I know what makes sense what don't. so this no region transfer thing makes no logical sense  in my book. we pay for the items from cash shope we pay the bills for this game to keep going so realy why *cricket* off the paying player when without us game dies. just like adding more crap to a game and not fixing the bigger problems like glitches ectra will couse ones to quit ,who wants to play a game were you crash a lot and not always due to ping ither or fall threw a floor and die because the game dosent run right and verouse other errors and bugs. no one likes a buggy glitch crashy game. it's not fun so like fix the crap then add more fun things todo and buy. dose that make more logical sense to you or dose content over smooth good running game make more logical sense to you?fix proplems add cotent fix any problems in the new content and repeate very simple and the game lives forever!

[Katu Kat]

6 hours ago, LadyOfShalot said:

muhmm this thread is a joke btw because region transfers can and do happen its just a matter of not being so perfect in making keys ectra. I mean realy do we need special stuff for our toons for each region we are on? that's just realy ridculose when the toons are on the same dam account think about it why make key what evers when you have them on same account makes no sense to me but yea I'm no pc genouse or nothing but I'm defently not dumb I know what makes sense what don't. so this no region transfer thing makes no logical sense  in my book. we pay for the items from cash shope we pay the bills for this game to keep going so realy why *cricket* off the paying player when without us game dies. just like adding more crap to a game and not fixing the bigger problems like glitches ectra will couse ones to quit ,who wants to play a game were you crash a lot and not always due to ping ither or fall threw a floor and die because the game dosent run right and verouse other errors and bugs. no one likes a buggy glitch crashy game. it's not fun so like fix the crap then add more fun things todo and buy. dose that make more logical sense to you or dose content over smooth good running game make more logical sense to you?fix proplems add cotent fix any problems in the new content and repeate very simple and the game lives forever!

About the region transfer, you're wrong.

Lemme breaking it down in layman.
The white snowfield glasses accessory that you get with the student bundle is an example. Only one is allowed to exist, at any given time, per account, per region.

Same goes for the toon ID within a region. There is EU 01001 and then there's NA 01001 only one instance of the 01001 slot is allowed to exist in each region to move one instance of 01001 from one region to the next would mean to flat out overwrite one instance with the other.

[Tsokushin]

3 hours ago, K4t said:

About the region transfer, you're wrong.

Lemme breaking it down in layman.
The white snowfield glasses accessory that you get with the student bundle is an example. Only one is allowed to exist, at any given time, per account, per region.

Same goes for the toon ID within a region. There is EU 01001 and then there's NA 01001 only one instance of the 01001 slot is allowed to exist in each region to move one instance of 01001 from one region to the next would mean to flat out overwrite one instance with the other.

Wouldn't it be possible for NCsoft to just create a new character with its own ID and copy the stats/equipment on it in the other region?

[Katu Kat]

7 hours ago, Tsokushin said:

Wouldn't it be possible for NCsoft to just create a new character with its own ID and copy the stats/equipment on it in the other region?

Risk of wires crossing. Its the same thing with the glasses, even though the ID of the object is new/different/changed the object itself is the same as its parallel variant in the other region, the only difference is their locations. If you move one object from one region to the other it will overwrite its "mirror" version in that new region.

Lets say you give snowfield glasses a new ID before u move it to from EU to NA, but you already own one in na...its going to overwrite the one you own IF it can be moved at all. Because only one is allowed to exist in a region.

[Tsokushin]

7 hours ago, K4t said:

Risk of wires crossing. Its the same thing with the glasses, even though the ID of the object is new/different/changed the object itself is the same as its parallel variant in the other region, the only difference is their locations. If you move one object from one region to the other it will overwrite its "mirror" version in that new region.

Lets say you give snowfield glasses a new ID before u move it to from EU to NA, but you already own one in na...its going to overwrite the one you own IF it can be moved at all. Because only one is allowed to exist in a region.

I think you misunderstand.

 

Eu region has its set of ID's and US has its set of ID's. If someone wanted a transfer from EU to US, NCsoft could create an entirely new character ID on US and simply copy the item data over. So, it's a matter of simply creating and giving the items to the US new character ID as the EU version has.

 

The only apparent upfront problem would be the character name.

[Katu Kat]

14 minutes ago, Tsokushin said:

I think you misunderstand.

 

Eu region has its set of ID's and US has its set of ID's. If someone wanted a transfer from EU to US, NCsoft could create an entirely new character ID on US and simply copy the item data over. So, it's a matter of simply creating and giving the items to the US new character ID as the EU version has.

 

The only apparent upfront problem would be the character name.

Each database has "slots" that can't be tampered with to put it simply. You cant swap, rearrange or edit these slots in each region. Changes to these slots can be made, updated etc but not overwritten.

[Tsokushin]

37 minutes ago, K4t said:

Each database has "slots" that can't be tampered with to put it simply. You cant swap, rearrange or edit these slots in each region. Changes to these slots can be made, updated etc but not overwritten.

But by that logic, each region has an absolute cap on the # of characters that can actually be made.

[babeln]

i had maxed toon on eu server, at 45 content. With silverfrost patch, i decided to roll on NA server, left my eu toon to rot (more people, better economy, at least few roleplayers, and na people in general are more fun, tho it doesnt work much in bns, after all). Btw how is possible that i live 200km from eu servers, and i have same or better connection to opposite side of world, lolol.

Its sweet that you can at least share hmcoins between eu/na. And btw its not that hard to roll anew, after few months pause with game, i returned, decided to make new toon, and in 5weeks she has 683ap, ok i used 4hongmoon gems (almost no gold) from my old main, but still...

[Altheatheia]

On 10/8/2016 at 3:34 PM, studioMagicalFox said:

 

And to all the other responses by people who think changing the primary key of a database table, where that primary key is used to link dozens/hundreds of other sub-tables is as easy as typing in another number and you are good to go. Just stop with it, you don't have any idea what you are talking about. First when a RDMS creates a primary key for a record, it is hard-wired. A programmer cannot edit the database and change the primary key without deleting the record and recreating it from scratch. Primary_Key is itself a data type, it's not the same as an integer value. These keys are not editable for a reason. It's because they are used as the value which links the record's main table to other tables in the same or other databases. Like the dev. who posted described, these sub-tables contain data related to the main character, inventory for example. These sub-tables would be orphaned if the primary key were to be changed. Let us just say for a second that the primary key could be edited. It would just be a matter of hiring a programmer to root out and hand edit every single one of the dozens/hundreds of tables that link to the primary one, or the same programmer could write a custom tool to do the job. Well programmers are super cheap to employ and most of them sit around all day with nothing to do so no problem there. Just charge it to the guy who is getting his character transferred, he probably has deep pockets. Wait, the system might depend on the existing key values to remain sequential and it might be a problem if a hole appears somewhere. Wait, there are tons of other problems that might arise from this as well. Hmm, well it might be a good idea to shut the game down while they figure it out, the players won't mind. It's a good thing it's not possible to edit a primary key, whew! Those who do not know what they are talking about should perhaps pause and think before asserting how easy this thing they know nothing about would be to do.

 

 

you gotta pretty bad at coding mate, it is possible, but not easy, it will take time but its not impossible, you have alot to learn tbh, primary key is a problem yes but its not hard to solve xD
gg you just made me giggle xD

[studioMagicalFox]

2 hours ago, HammyYummy said:

you gotta pretty bad at coding mate, it is possible, but not easy, it will take time but its not impossible, you have alot to learn tbh, primary key is a problem yes but its not hard to solve xD
gg you just made me giggle xD

The point I was making was not that moving the data is impossible but rather that it is not as simple as changing a number as the previous posters had suggested. If I had to solve it in a straightforward way, just off the top of my head, I would write a tool to export the record and all it's linked records into an external format. Then I would delete the existing record. Then I would create a new set of records on the destination dbms and import the data. Time consuming as you point out. They obviously are dealing with constraints such that it's not cost effective or they would do it and not point out that its a problem for them to have to deal with. As far as I know changing the primary key is non-trivial.  I guess I'm pretty bad at coding. Databases aren't my field. Simulations, data visualization tools, and custom languages are mostly what I've worked on. Yes I do have much to learn, I've only been at it for a few decades now which is much to little time. I wish I had multiple lifetimes to use learning. I'm glad I was able to brighten your day with my attempt to explain how a primary key works.

 

Edit: Actually moving the data per above might also cause problems, depending on exactly how they are doing things. As K4t points out, you might have special items like sunglasses which have their own uniqueness issues. Making sure that conflicts don't arise in an ever widening cascade of linked data sets might just be too much work for it to be cost effective. Other games by NCS offer region transfers but BnS was not created in-house, so it's architecture just might not scale that well. Kami-sama knows the game's other systems suffer from poor optimization.

[Raizou]

 

 

 

 

 

[Katu Kat]

On 10/9/2016 at 4:42 PM, Tsokushin said:

But by that logic, each region has an absolute cap on the # of characters that can actually be made.

Well I think its basic understanding for databases, like many things, to have a growth limit. 

Also @Raizou "From one server to another"  Can they or did they mean to say"server" instead of "region"? If so does this mean they're working on region transfer of toons?

[KanekiKen]

On 8/10/2016 at 3:34 PM, studioMagicalFox said:

 

And to all the other responses by people who think changing the primary key of a database table, where that primary key is used to link dozens/hundreds of other sub-tables is as easy as typing in another number and you are good to go. Just stop with it, you don't have any idea what you are talking about. First when a RDMS creates a primary key for a record, it is hard-wired. A programmer cannot edit the database and change the primary key without deleting the record and recreating it from scratch. Primary_Key is itself a data type, it's not the same as an integer value. These keys are not editable for a reason. It's because they are used as the value which links the record's main table to other tables in the same or other databases. Like the dev. who posted described, these sub-tables contain data related to the main character, inventory for example. These sub-tables would be orphaned if the primary key were to be changed. Let us just say for a second that the primary key could be edited. It would just be a matter of hiring a programmer to root out and hand edit every single one of the dozens/hundreds of tables that link to the primary one, or the same programmer could write a custom tool to do the job. Well programmers are super cheap to employ and most of them sit around all day with nothing to do so no problem there. Just charge it to the guy who is getting his character transferred, he probably has deep pockets. Wait, the system might depend on the existing key values to remain sequential and it might be a problem if a hole appears somewhere. Wait, there are tons of other problems that might arise from this as well. Hmm, well it might be a good idea to shut the game down while they figure it out, the players won't mind. It's a good thing it's not possible to edit a primary key, whew! Those who do not know what they are talking about should perhaps pause and think before asserting how easy this thing they know nothing about would be to do.

 

 

Bla bla bla bla........

[welkin]

just hurry up and release them already QuQ

two of my chars are in the wrong servergroup

[Raizou]

 

 

 

[LadyOfShalot]

it is kinda funny that the first person to coment on my post made it sound as if they were talking to a retard or child instead of an intelgent adult who knows a lot of stuff but just is not like her little brother and sitting doing things with computers that are very cool rather I am sitting and trying to learn about them by self doing sense I do have a learning difficulty hence my poor grammer and such. honestly when ones speak to others they should use more respectfull noninsulting language it dose not help nore encourage the person in any way. Gameing has become a center for faceless bulling and curlty twards others but what ones forget is that there are laws in this world agenst cyber bulling and real nasty consaqences for doing so. so might just want to think on that next time you kill someone in game or do something and start running off your mouth at the person calling them noob ectra after your the one being rude not them and your the noob for running your mouth and trolling them.