Ncwest, you don't want to solve the Moonstone problem, admit it.

[Chronolixius]

Most people compare gear grinding here to other MMOs like WoW (yeah, I used WoW because most people here have played it) where you just need to run a few weeks worth of raids to get end game gear. But in reality, gear grinding here is supposed to take a very long time, you DON'T need legendary, its just a perk to clear current dungeons faster, not a necessity. Hell, you won't even need legendary for the dungeons coming in Q4.

 

Most Silverfrost dungeons only need 400-550 AP (depending on the dungeon and mode, and yes, the newer dungeons are in this range too). However, the reason for the high AP req for dungeons now is mostly divided between:

• People have been farming non-stop, so they wanna clear it faster
• People wanna skip mechanics instead of learning them
• People who knows mechanics don't wanna que with lower AP that don't knows mechanics, so they take higher AP people to play more safe, instead of learning the lower AP the mechanics

 

Also, NCWest have been giving us other farming methods for HM skills and the recently Moonstones added to F14 and F15, which no other region have done (yes, I know the west market isn't put for these heavy grind games like Aion and Blade & Soul, but I like it just the way it is).

 

 

Note to consider: We have been getting patches way faster than the original game in Korea have (we have been given years of content in 6 months) which have made upgrading a true pain. In Korea, people who have been playing since start could stack up with materials till next big patch or use on alts.

 

[FakeName]

1 minute ago, King Cyrus said:

i started playing recently like 2 month and my SMN is 468 ap. been in ssp everyday for 2-3hors trying everything but the best i got was a blue key once...so yea going to farm bsh.necro.lair for a whole year to get enough gold to hit breeze! awesome game design!

You realize you are like...30 ap from average despite only playing 2 months right?

[King Cyrus]

i started playing recently like 2 month and my SMN is 468 ap. been in ssp everyday for 2-3hors trying everything but the best i got was a blue key once...so yea going to farm bsh.necro.lair for a whole year to get enough gold to hit breeze! awesome game design!

[King Cyrus]

5 minutes ago, FakeName said:

You realize you are like...30 ap from average despite only playing 2 months right?

ye the real problem start after 450 u should know it better...before that u get ur moonwater tears from dungeons  make transormaion stone and progress fast..the real problem start after that.

[FakeName]

1 minute ago, King Cyrus said:

ye the real problem start after 450 u should know it better...before that u get ur moonwater tears make transormaion stone and progress fast..the real problem start after that.

You are absolutely right, I do know it better, which is why I know you can hit hit 500 without any significant difficulties and 500 ap is enough for everything.  At that point you can leisurely farm up the stuff you need to progress further.  

 

Have you upgraded your accessories to the end of the moonwater path or are they still at infernal?  have you farmed your moonwater soul/Hongmoon Energy?  Do you have an ap gem in your weapon?  I a asking because my wife has more AP then you in infernal accessories and an oathbreaker weapon.  If she upgrades her accessories to siren she will break 500 ap.  Just thinking you might be able to ease your pain a little vs sitting in ssp.  

 

FYI, I I am sitting at 693 ap despite not being able to farm SSP at all until the server link the other day.  I instead used my time on arena for soulstones and doing the purple dungeons, as many as I had time for, each day to farm stingers and gold.  Then I bought my moonstones for each upgrade.  It was a pain, it took a lot of time, but if you are having trouble with one aspect try something different.

[Atheyana]

This topic has come up many times before. NCSoft either doesn't understand that while games in the Asian region can be popular in the West certain things just don't work. Blade & Soul was designed as a pure RNG based MMO with a great combat system. Sadly, The request for 6-man/4-man instances having a chance to drop Moonstones is falling on deaf ears.

 

The reason that people struggle to get better gear is that the Western region MMO communities have been taught through life that they need everything immediately. This coupled with being taught the ways of greed. Buying low and selling high to maximize everything. This helps the individual but not the community as a whole.

 

Even right now (may change later) the Asian regions have the mentality of putting the community first. This means they help each other strive to succeed as a whole and not as an individual. Anyone that they perceive to be a threat regarding this they kill on sight until the person either quits or proves they won't threaten this way of life on said servers. 

 

People can throw blame around all they want but the Moonstone situation is one players can easily abuse as it is all RNG dependent acquiring said items without using the Marketplace (F5). Those that are able to consistently farm these stones set a monopoly and charge whatever rate they want. Usually it is the people who are controlling the market that argue against making more available sources (not easier sources) on said materials. The reason is if this happened those people wouldn't be able to control the market as easily.

 

Another issue I didn't mention above is the fact that content was pushed out extremely fast for NA/EU. The speed at which it was released made the market and resource farming unstable for now.

 

The blame falls on the developer and the community as a whole. The community is at fault for not taking a stance like the Asian regions have while the developer is at fault for failing to realize how greedy, insensitive, and controlling the western region communities can be.

[Soube21]

1 hour ago, Atheyana said:

The blame falls on the developer and the community as a whole. The community is at fault for not taking a stance like the Asian regions have while the developer is at fault for failing to realize how greedy, insensitive, and controlling the western region communities can be.

So western people should just be like asian people and everything will be solved? No.

 

This is entirely the fault of the publisher for EXPECTING western gamers to be exactly the same as their Korean/Chinese/Japanese customers.

 

The problem with western gamers is not that we're greedy, it's honestly not even a problem really. We were raised in a culture where work is rewarded with SOME SORT OF PROGRESS. We don't expect everything right away, but we darn well expect SOMETHING for our time and effort. The concept of doing a boatload of work and getting nothing for it at the end of the day does not fly in most western nations. We sort of call that slave labor.

[Suna]

Mushin tower change was pretty good step for the right direction. I have completed mushin tower now 7 times(everyday once after patch) and get so far 3 times 10 moonstone bundles. If i remember right you can get something like 520 ap before you even need moonstones for gear upgrades and that should be pretty much enough clear F15. I agree too ssp is totally cancer place especially with low fps.

[Katsapliakos]

5 hours ago, Suna said:

Mushin tower change was pretty good step for the right direction. I have completed mushin tower now 7 times(everyday once after patch) and get so far 3 times 10 moonstone bundles. If i remember right you can get something like 520 ap before you even need moonstones for gear upgrades and that should be pretty much enough clear F15. I agree too ssp is totally cancer place especially with low fps.

Its a bad step in the wrong directions,ppl with good ping,high ap,having some knowledge of the game could do ssp and get moonstones anyway.

 

What about the new players that lack all that and cant do ssp or mushin tower?I read in faction chat a lot that ppl cant even get past f7 or f8 and you call this a good change?

 

Didnt we just had a Server merge?Dont you all want new players to come and stay in the game?As if a new Player dont need tons of other mats to farm,we must make it imposibble for them to farm moonstones.

 

I am not one who likes to hoard gold,i want all mats cost 50s each silver.So our gold income comes from choosing our desired dungeons to run and from that mainly only,as if there arent other ways to make gold now,only moonstones produce profit,thats not true.

 

PS:I dont have problem in farming moonstones or anything else,but moonstone prices are idiotic atm.

[Hanadeus]

in fact u all forgot this game is still in Beta stage so dont expect it to be perfect

[Atheyana]

22 hours ago, Soube21 said:

So western people should just be like asian people and everything will be solved? No.

 

This is entirely the fault of the publisher for EXPECTING western gamers to be exactly the same as their Korean/Chinese/Japanese customers.

 

The problem with western gamers is not that we're greedy, it's honestly not even a problem really. We were raised in a culture where work is rewarded with SOME SORT OF PROGRESS. We don't expect everything right away, but we darn well expect SOMETHING for our time and effort. The concept of doing a boatload of work and getting nothing for it at the end of the day does not fly in most western nations. We sort of call that slave labor.

My previous post was to highlight the differences between regions on why some things work in the Asian region but doesn't work in the Western region. It wasn't meant that NA/EU should be forced to go the "need before greed" route as a whole. Regardless of the fact NA/EU won't ever return to the days of community first. This is something that I accepted after the destruction of MMO communities that WoW created with others following suit.

 

The greed part of the post was more referring to people in the Western region being raised to create a product to sell for as much as possible without losing sales.

• An example is Gucci ($510) and Fendi ($420) t-shirts selling at an unreasonably expensive mark compared to other t-shirts. There are t-shirts you can easily buy for around $20. The difference between these is the name on the tag in most cases. Usually the expensive clothes are equally as durable and will last the same amount of time as their super cheap counterpart. 

Another thing people do in the real world is buying items for retailer value on items that will be known to sell then increase the cost due to it being limited in stock whether temporary (example: PS4) or for good (example: Ecto Coolers and limited edition products).

 

 

Now back to the point I was aiming to make. Yes, Communities play a major role in how farming systems work in a game. When MMO developers create items or resources that are locked to select PvP areas where you literally have to fight for it certain players aim to use any means necessary to push a monopoly on these. A previous MMO I played said players used cheats/hacks to help ensure that they maintained total control until enough of them got max gear possible to camp anyone trying to get said items.

 

Right now in Blade & Soul the coveted resource/item that fits in the above category is Moonstones. Around 575AP you need 110 Moonstones to go from True Breeze to Awakened Scorpio and 130 Moonstones to go from Awakened Scorpio to True Scorpio. This is 230 Moonstones for just the weapon. The point of this is for such a highly needed upgrade material it shouldn't be restricted. Would be completely understandable if it was something like Stone of Wisdom where you don't need that many overall and no single large quantity needed.

 

My suggestion was for them to put Moonstones in 4-man/6-man instance from Gloomdross Incursion and future purple instances so people have an actually stable method of acquiring Moonstones. SSP is too unstable and even 600AP players are finding it near impossible to get credit for the quest let alone a loot chest. High AP players camp SSP or one side ruins it for the other. 

 

Also, I still stand by my claim that it is a shared blame between the community, developer, and in some cases publisher (developer and publisher are owned by the same company in this case).

[FakeName]

6 hours ago, Hanadeus said:

in fact u all forgot this game is still in Beta stage so dont expect it to be perfect

What?  No it isn't.  This game has been out for like 5 years elsewhere, and had both alpha AND beta tests here before official release.  It is the furthest thing from beta test you could get while it's still an active game.

[Shadovvv]

4 hours ago, Atheyana said:

Right now in Blade & Soul the coveted resource/item that fits in the above category is Moonstones. Around 575AP you need 110 Moonstones to go from True Breeze to Awakened Scorpio and 130 Moonstones to go from Awakened Scorpio to True Scorpio. This is 230 Moonstones for just the weapon. The point of this is for such a highly needed upgrade material it shouldn't be restricted. Would be completely understandable if it was something like Stone of Wisdom where you don't need that many overall and no single large quantity needed.

And yet you need 360 + 430 = 790 Soulstones and 290 + 350 = 640 Frozen Stingers, and both are literally handed out for free and crashed the market. Do you really want to NOT do any work and defeat the purpose of endgame?

 

And what will you do once you have your mountains of Moonstones? Will you complain for Honorary Ornaments, Flowers of Lament, Taikhan Skin and Hongmoon Skills?

[Atheyana]

27 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

And yet you need 360 + 430 = 790 Soulstones and 290 + 350 = 640 Frozen Stingers, and both are literally handed out for free and crashed the market. Do you really want to NOT do any work and defeat the purpose of endgame?

 

And what will you do once you have your mountains of Moonstones? Will you complain for Honorary Ornaments, Flowers of Lament, Taikhan Skin and Hongmoon Skills?

You missed my point. I never said to make it a common drop from the instances but more along the lines of a rare drop in 4-man (maybe 6-man) instances from Gloomdross and higher. Have it set to 1 Moonstone and 10 Moonstone pack only from bosses at a rate of the Honorary Ornaments or slightly lower. The comment was to make it available in more areas to allow more people to acquire them but not make said Moonstone drop like candy. There is a difference between making it more available and making it easier to get.

 

If people wanted it easier then everyone would suggest to remove the damage requirement in SSP for bosses altogether.

[devildawg]

26 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

And yet you need 360 + 430 = 790 Soulstones and 290 + 350 = 640 Frozen Stingers, and both are literally handed out for free and crashed the market. Do you really want to NOT do any work and defeat the purpose of endgame?

 

And what will you do once you have your mountains of Moonstones? Will you complain for Honorary Ornaments, Flowers of Lament, Taikhan Skin and Hongmoon Skills?

I apologize for not reading all the posts above this one :P 

 

This is a very valid point that people will complain about anything but, i think the issue is not the amount of moonstones needed for upgrades, its HOW they are obtained. Which is mainly from ssp and tower which the majority of ppl cannot do due to many many reasons : faction unbalanced, faction purposely messing with your ssp runs, not getting drops in ssp due to too many ppl, ssp terrible fps, RNG when opening boxes for moonstones, ssp keys being very expensive in marketplace, people cant do tower because they dont have the gear for it, which requires moonstones. 

 

When stingers were over 3g i honestly didn't care how many I needed because I was still able to get a decent amount per day, and it was guaranteed. When I go to ssp, its not even guaranteed that I will even get 1 moonstone due to the issues listed above. I don't have time to spend my whole day in ssp like some ppl do so it makes it super hard to get moonstones. Even if they added 1 moonstone from daily quests for the new purple dungeons that would make things a lot better. 

[Niskka]

I don't know why people think they need to be in legendary just to accomplish something.  Just being in awakened scorpion with true oaths and understanding dung mech is enough to get by ANYTHING.  People complain about ping well....not all mmos games are greatly optimize unless you are really playing on a low spec comp even worst a laptop.....if you feel you're not getting thing accomplished why not take up some tips from someone who knows about the class you play?  Having a hard time with Naksun? Go ask someone who can help? Ping in mushin tower?  Lower graphics? I remember someone post a forum asking any exp des if he can help him with naksun and someone kindly answered. There are even vids on youtube how people play their class in certain dungs. Research people research.

Anyways moonstones are ment to get hard, not easy. Not many wants to pvp their lives away just to upgrade to do dungs hence why they put them in mushin tower and make it rng as the rng boxes in ssp. Again if you're having a hard time fighting Naksun, ask someone who can help you that knows how to fight him.  Ping issue? It could be on their end could be mostly on your end (parts spec, isp,running on windows 10, running stuff in background, recording, streaming, etc)

 

Also i remember a convo in 4 man gloom a kr player was saying how disappointed he was how na have many changes especially on bosses hp (guessing how easy it is now)

 and how in kr stingers go for 10s each while ours go for 50s to 1g each. So yup.....

[Eileithia]

6 minutes ago, Niskka said:

Having a hard time with Naksun? Go ask someone who can help? Ping in mushin tower?  Lower graphics? I remember someone post a forum asking any exp des if he can help him with naksun and someone kindly answered. There are even vids on youtube how people play their class in certain dungs. Research people research.

 and how in kr stingers go for 10s each while ours go for 50s to 1g each. So yup.....

On the first part.  Lowering graphics doesn't effect Ping.. Ping is the delay between your computer and NC's servers.  You can be on a beast of a machine on the lowest graphics settings and still have shit ping.  Big difference between Ping (Data delay) and graphic delay because your computer sucks.

 

On the 2nd part - Stingers go for 10s in KR, because people in KR aren't out to get rich, they help eachother. Also, Stingers were as high as 4g before the last patch.

[Ishtar]

On 7/26/2016 at 3:42 AM, Reap00 said:

They have to keep the moonstone supply as low as possible. This guarantees more people waste more money on the next trove.

This is the reason they did server merge... err server link. It keep getting worse. They also probably decrease 1-5 keys and 5-10 moonstones % from those boxes. Nerf them down all of them haha. Now i see a lot of players wishing for moonstones in f10 and ncsoft are more than happy to add them, problem is how to without getting players angry (quitting) call it ptw or whatever lol.

[Shadovvv]

27 minutes ago, devildawg said:

I apologize for not reading all the posts above this one :P 

This is a very valid point that people will complain about anything but, i think the issue is not the amount of moonstones needed for upgrades, its HOW they are obtained. Which is mainly from ssp and tower which the majority of ppl cannot do due to many many reasons : faction unbalanced, faction purposely messing with your ssp runs, not getting drops in ssp due to too many ppl, ssp terrible fps, RNG when opening boxes for moonstones, ssp keys being very expensive in marketplace, people cant do tower because they dont have the gear for it, which requires moonstones. 

When stingers were over 3g i honestly didn't care how many I needed because I was still able to get a decent amount per day, and it was guaranteed. When I go to ssp, its not even guaranteed that I will even get 1 moonstone due to the issues listed above. I don't have time to spend my whole day in ssp like some ppl do so it makes it super hard to get moonstones. Even if they added 1 moonstone from daily quests for the purple dungeons that would make things a lot better. 

I don't disagree that SSP has flaws, but all they need to do is just add the optimization patch for it, and maybe shorten the channel limit. Still, they added another way to get Moonstones through Mushin's Tower, which is on a level plane similar to Sogun/Nexus/Masts/Gloomdross, and takes the same amount of time to complete as SSP.

 

Moonstones in daily challenge would be fine, but for every Silverfrost Purple Dailies would be excessive. You don't want to crash the Moonstone marketing or other things will massively inflate. Look at what happened when Frozen Stingers crashed: they used to be 2g-3g and now they plummeted to 50s, while Moonstones also used to be 2g-3g and then rose to 4g and then 5g. With inflation, gold becomes so much more valuable and truly then the "rich will get richer."

[Zedonia]

38 minutes ago, Atheyana said:

I never said to make it a common drop from the instances but more along the lines of a rare drop in 4-man (maybe 6-man) instances from Gloomdross and higher. Have it set to 1 Moonstone and 10 Moonstone pack only from bosses at a rate of the Honorary Ornaments or slightly lower.

That would be not enough. Most people who have problems with Tower will have problems with 4 man dungeons. And drop rate like ornament is also way too low to get them effectively. But if you put them in 6 man with a decent drop rate, it will end like with stingers.

38 minutes ago, devildawg said:

When I go to ssp, its not even guaranteed that I will even get 1 moonstone due to the issues listed above. I don't have time to spend my whole day in ssp like some ppl do so it makes it super hard to get moonstones. Even if they added 1 moonstone from daily quests for the new purple dungeons that would make things a lot better. 

That's true. I almost only visit ssp for ak bul. Last time there I got some chests but only 1 key. Sure, i can get soul stones from prestige but it's boring to farm there. I prefer Tower. Takes 20 min. from 9->15 and gives 1 save moonstone + often more (from F14 or bundle from naksun, drop rate is not too bad). But for all who can't both, adding them to daily quests or the daily challange would be very good. It's frustating enough to farm hm skills, we should be able to get at least our gear in a decent time.

[Eileithia]

2 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Moonstones in daily challenge would be fine, but for every Silverfrost Purple Dailies would be excessive. You don't want to crash the Moonstone marketing or other things will massively inflate. Look at what happened when Frozen Stingers crashed: they used to be 2g-3g and now they plummeted to 50s, while Moonstones also used to be 2g-3g and then rose to 4g and then 5g. With inflation, gold becomes so much more valuable and truly then the "rich will get richer."

Moonstone costs didn't increase because stingers dropped.. They increased because SSP is now WAR on most servers because it's more crowded. People aren't able to finish mining or even their dailies in a lot of cases.  All that, coupled with the SF release and more people gearing up means the demand is > than supply so people are charging as much as possible for them so they can get rich.

[Niskka]

6 minutes ago, Eileithia said:

On the 2nd part - Stingers go for 10s in KR, because people in KR aren't out to get rich, they help eachother. Also, Stingers were as high as 4g before the last patch.

Yup probably why he was disappointed. Greedy people wanting in game money back then just to make that income for their own gear production then again....there are people who are playing the marketplace game.....or having their own groups already geared farm dungs split profits etc. Oh the possibilities! How much more cruelty should we take from people! Why didn't i find a clan that could help me out instead of try to do things alone! 

Okay im done im going overboard with the drama acting

But yea lower price on stingers to help players gotcha helpful.

11 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

I don't disagree that SSP has flaws, but all they need to do is just add the optimization patch for it, and maybe shorten the channel limit. Still, they added another way to get Moonstones through Mushin's Tower, which is on a level plane similar to Sogun/Nexus/Masts/Gloomdross, and takes the same amount of time to complete as SSP.

 

Moonstones in daily challenge would be fine, but for every Silverfrost Purple Dailies would be excessive. You don't want to crash the Moonstone marketing or other things will massively inflate. Look at what happened when Frozen Stingers crashed: they used to be 2g-3g and now they plummeted to 50s, while Moonstones also used to be 2g-3g and then rose to 4g and then 5g. With inflation, gold becomes so much more valuable and truly then the "rich will get richer."

You sir gets a gold star

[Pesto]

you can do any dungeon with 600 AP+

you do not need 600 AP+ to do those dungeons, it makes the run fluid and easy.

 

As a game designed, you wouldn't plan your most difficult dungeons to be fluid and easy on every run for the average AP

Logically, 600+ AP, while achievable, is not intended for the average BNS player to achieve AS OF THIS PATCH

however, for people who have already reached this marker, in order to keep them somewhat interested in this game and have some goal to work towards.

 

Why not make the road extra grindy and difficult so they can slowly work towards legendary weapons and flash their epeens for the amount of work that went into it?

While yes, those who want an easy way out, can purchase materials or rng boxes to increase their speed at upgrading their gears while turning a profit for the company.

 

i've said time and time again, i started my SF when it was released a month ago.

I had almost minimal assistance, but i have experience, so i know what i should be using my time on every day. And i dont play my character like shit.

As a result, 60 gold+ per day is very easy to accomplish and do without sacrificing on loots that i need, using nothing more than a few casual hours a day. There are days when i don't have time to play because of irl commitments or other things that i'd rather do.

 

after one month of playing like this i can clear pretty much anything without being dead weight

 

TL;DR

If you are having difficulty clearing any dungeon after a couple months of play time 

you are either doing something wrong, or you are just really, really bad.

 

 

[gakdan]

Wouldn't it be better to have an exchange merchant for Moonstone?

Like 1000 siern emblem for one moonstone, 800 pirate emblem, etc(the garbage stuff that are taking up space in your storage)...

that way(as long as NCsoft can make the exchange rate reasonable), people would have more ways to farm them at the same time old contents stays alive.

 

[Niskka]

2 hours ago, Eileithia said:

Moonstone costs didn't increase because stingers dropped.. They increased because SSP is now WAR on most servers because it's more crowded. People aren't able to finish mining or even their dailies in a lot of cases.  All that, coupled with the SF release and more people gearing up means the demand is > than supply so people are charging as much as possible for them so they can get rich.

I agree and the ones that are doing mushin tower are using those moonstones for safe keeping and/or upgrading