When is assassin dps supposed to be good?

[TJXX]

I decided to level an assassin because I keep reading about how much dps they can do.  So far as a fresh 50 with equal gear to my other alts it's dps is terrible.  I got the HM venom slash skill hoping it would be better but that just put the dark build about on par with the stealth build.  I haven't farmed all of the foods for HM LMB yet, but I'm wondering how much that's even going to help.  Bringing any sort of utility also seems to lower dps by a bunch and make it feel even more useless.  Unless this class scales amazingly with crit I'm pretty disappointed so far.  Tips anyone?

[Shadovvv]

You can't really make a comparison between your Sin and your other characters assuming there's a large gap in gear difference. People do say Sins need low ping, but personally I don't let that discourage me from playing my class.

 

Now, with Dark Build all you need is Hongmoon Shadow Slash to be able to upkeep 5 poison stacks; you have Set Landmine, Throwing Dagger, Venom Slash (counts as two), and Acrid Star (from resisting stuff). For an even easier time, Hongmoon Mist Slash grants Venom Pierce, which drops 1 poison stack and has a fairly low cooldown. As long as you can keep up 5 stacks of poison you're pretty much set. The reason why Dark Build is considered superior is because they don't need to rely on staying in stealth, and many things in the endgame kick us out of stealth and get into a position where we can't re-enter stealth.

The standard rotation of a Dark build starts with Poison Breath (4) -> Fighting Spirit (V) -> Time Bomb (2) -> Lightning Rod (4) -> Heart Stab/Mist Slash/Dark Strike (RB/LB/F) rotation until poison wears out -> Backstep (SS) / Decoy (2) -> Lightning Stride (RMB) -> repeat, while using Hook Kick and Shadow Dash to enter stealth whenever it's necessary to reapply poison.

 

 

Also our utility only varies for situations. We obviously don't take Lotus of Escape, Lotus of Rescue, or Stealth Smokescreen against boss fights, and we don't need Fighting Spirit while on the way to the boss. You don't even sacrifice DPS for utility at all.

 

In the next balance patch (which is announced somewhere next month, if not the next one after), there's more ways for an Assassin to stack poison, along with reduced critical reliance on Venom Slash, Dark Strike (to a small degree), and Lightning Pierce.

[TJXX]

I'm making my comparisons with the exact same gear/soulshields/hm levels.   The alts don't have any HM skills tho, where I had to get them on my sin and it still does less dps.  I'm not discouraged, but disappointed from what I've heard and what I'm experiencing.   I've got the rotations down too, it's just straight up less dps so far.   I'm still going to gear it up and see where it actually gets better tho.

[FakeName]

I am curous how you are determining your "dps"

[devildawg]

15 hours ago, TJXX said:

I'm making my comparisons with the exact same gear/soulshields/hm levels.   The alts don't have any HM skills tho, where I had to get them on my sin and it still does less dps.  I'm not discouraged, but disappointed from what I've heard and what I'm experiencing.   I've got the rotations down too, it's just straight up less dps so far.   I'm still going to gear it up and see where it actually gets better tho.

May I ask what other classes you are comparing to? A SIN has consistent damage and not high burst damage like some other classes. So a SIN could be hitting for 3k, 6k, 3k, 6k, 11k in 1.5 seconds or so, where as a FM would hit around 4k,4k, 15k per 1.5 seconds as an example, NOT true stats, just an example. So some ppl look at the 15k damage and is like "WOW SO GOOD, 15k all the time! " but overall its still less than a SIN (in THIS example). - Please no discussion about which class has the highest DPS... I am simply trying to explain how SINs DPS looks like. 

 

[Eileithia]

48 minutes ago, devildawg said:

May I ask what other classes you are comparing to? A SIN has consistent damage and not high burst damage like some other classes. So a SIN could be hitting for 3k, 6k, 3k, 6k, 11k in 1.5 seconds or so, where as a FM would hit around 4k,4k, 15k per 1.5 seconds as an example, NOT true stats, just an example. So some ppl look at the 15k damage and is like "WOW SO GOOD, 15k all the time! " but overall its still less than a SIN (in THIS example). - Please no discussion about which class has the highest DPS... I am simply trying to explain how SINs DPS looks like. 

 

Exactly this - Until we get true in-game parsers you really can't compare.  And the reason you need to play assassin on low-ping is because it relies heavily on ani-cancelling to do optimal DPS.  Shitty ping = Shitty DPS, and you have to chase mobs.

[TJXX]

5 hours ago, devildawg said:

May I ask what other classes you are comparing to? A SIN has consistent damage and not high burst damage like some other classes. So a SIN could be hitting for 3k, 6k, 3k, 6k, 11k in 1.5 seconds or so, where as a FM would hit around 4k,4k, 15k per 1.5 seconds as an example, NOT true stats, just an example. So some ppl look at the 15k damage and is like "WOW SO GOOD, 15k all the time! " but overall its still less than a SIN (in THIS example). - Please no discussion about which class has the highest DPS... I am simply trying to explain how SINs DPS looks like. 

 

My other alts I'm comparing to are FM, BD, Summoner.  All of which are very consistent with fm having a short burst sometimes.

4 hours ago, Eileithia said:

Exactly this - Until we get true in-game parsers you really can't compare.  And the reason you need to play assassin on low-ping is because it relies heavily on ani-cancelling to do optimal DPS.  Shitty ping = Shitty DPS, and you have to chase mobs.

You can make your own meter or use one of the ones already out there and they're pretty accurate for the user.  Some are off when seeing party members dps.  It's also pretty simple to kill a monster and divide the time taken by it's hp.

[Ferocious]

Sin damage is always pretty good... out of all the classes I play (and I play all), I'd say it may have the best sustained melee damage.   You may have a tougher time depending on BnS experience early on, but once you learn the mechanics it should be easy enough.   I personally like dark builds... but to each their own. 

You can't really compare any DPS in the game to FM... FM is THEE DPS champ imo, with SF being right up there and SMNR as well  (heck even WL can have amazing DPS).   Sin CAN do that type of damage and keep pace with those 3 I just mentioned, but on a moving target it's going to cost you some sustained even if you are quick.

However, Sin is a great DPS class, find what build works best for you.  I don't like to rely on having to be in stealth all the time.  It's not a good habit when you fight enemies with true sight.   Get practice in both in and out of stealth and also pick up Venom Slash (the Volume 2 HM Skill book which you'll have to do the achievement for as well... the one from the royal zen bean is not bad but I think Venom Slash is great).

[CoffeeDemon]

Just mash buttons... its silly but this is how you max out your dps in BnS, since NCSoft never bothered to fix animation canceling.

Obviously if you rely on spamming instant cast spells with no cd for dps, your ping will matter a lot and a slightly higher ping can easily half your dps.

Imo the stealth dps is much easier to pull off since you can just mash rmb and F alternately and the faster you do it the higher the chance that the attack will go off just when it can go off.

For the out of stealth dps you actually need to pay attention to the animations and your rythm can get screwed up by lots of things like lag, ping spikes or visual obstructions.

[azraelkun]

Op must doing something very wrong.

Sin is beast with dark build only fm can make it better in moving target.

Build ur crit n ctit damage for pve.

Learn to ani cancel lb rb perfect.

Learn to keep an eye on buf icons.

[xCandyBear]

playing sin in EU is truly disapointing compared to KR.

Even with unlocked hm skills is so lame in terms of dps for a dps class is all i can say.

[InstantDeath]

I have an assassin with 689 ap, legendary stage 3 weapon, all maxed up accessories with all hm skills unlocked. It's still mid tear dps class. I tested it with 4 different builds; dark build ( RMB+LMB+F ), light build ( RMB+F+4 ), aggressive dark build ( RMB+F ) and half dark build ( dark strike with lightning crash ). It's still not as good as KFM, Summoner, FM, WL.

If you wonder, my best attemp is 550k damage in 18 seconds ( 10 seconds of 5 stack poison + 8 seconds with time bomb extended )
KFM does 540-580k damage in 18 seconds ( nearly same items )
Summoner does 590-620k damage
FM does up to 650k depending on burn
WL does 540k without proper hm skills

Tested them all with my guild mates on dummies.

So, as for dps, this is my opinion ;

Top Tier : FM,Sum,WL
Top-Mid Tier: KFM
Mid Tier: Assassin, BM
Mid-Low Tier: Destroyer
Low Tier : BD

No idea about SF because i've never tried it.

Edit : if you have asura ember, light build is the best dps option. But in crowded places like ss plains, fps drops and you can't switch between F and 4 so fast.

[xCandyBear]

Devs should fix sin class it is pathetic a dps class with no abilities to tank or party support wise skills not having a decent dps on the line with fm at least. This is a big flaw that made me reroll to fm but i barely play now its not my p laystyle just switched bc of this huge disappointment between what is announced about sins and what they truly are. Instead of making new classes think first how to fix the main ones. 

[devildawg]

1 hour ago, xCandyBear said:

Devs should fix sin class it is pathetic a dps class with no abilities to tank or party support wise skills not having a decent dps on the line with fm at least. This is a big flaw that made me reroll to fm but i barely play now its not my p laystyle just switched bc of this huge disappointment between what is announced about sins and what they truly are. Instead of making new classes think first how to fix the main ones. 

For party support they have the same or more than other classes so I'm not sure what you are complaining about, unless you were unaware of them: 

 

v: Fighting Spirit / pull all dead or near dead party members up to 100m / Party teleport

2: Decoy S2/T3 - Party save - done it many times in Yeti

x: smoke screen - either stealth party with .5 parry for all members who enter stealth, or resist projectiles and recover HP/focus for 10s for party

 

Also, SINs are a harder class to use for a reason, but you can definitely tank, just like ANY class can if required. I tanked alongside another SIN for Asura, and the entire dungeon because we had no 'real' tank class such as the BM or KFM. 

[devildawg]

On 8/1/2016 at 1:15 AM, InstantDeath said:

I have an assassin with 689 ap, legendary stage 3 weapon, all maxed up accessories with all hm skills unlocked. It's still mid tear dps class. I tested it with 4 different builds; dark build ( RMB+LMB+F ), light build ( RMB+F+4 ), aggressive dark build ( RMB+F ) and half dark build ( dark strike with lightning crash ). It's still not as good as KFM, Summoner, FM, WL.

If you wonder, my best attemp is 550k damage in 18 seconds ( 10 seconds of 5 stack poison + 8 seconds with time bomb extended )
KFM does 540-580k damage in 18 seconds ( nearly same items )
Summoner does 590-620k damage
FM does up to 650k depending on burn
WL does 540k without proper hm skills

Tested them all with my guild mates on dummies.

So, as for dps, this is my opinion ;

Top Tier : FM,Sum,WL
Top-Mid Tier: KFM
Mid Tier: Assassin, BM
Mid-Low Tier: Destroyer
Low Tier : BD

No idea about SF because i've never tried it.

Edit : if you have asura ember, light build is the best dps option. But in crowded places like ss plains, fps drops and you can't switch between F and 4 so fast.

We will be getting a DPS meter in the next patch and SIN is getting huge changes so i don't want to get into much of "which classes have the highest DPS", I would like to add that a real DPS test should not be 18 seconds long as it doesn't prove much. The reason is because EVERY class has big burst of damage at the start of battle ONLY when their skills are not on cooldown. After that 18 seconds the BM has a long cooldown for lightning draw for example, or FM meteor shower/inferno, or destroyer Fury. The SIN on the other hand can easily stack another 5 poison and go to town, or keep fast up constant DPS in stealth.

 

Also, the SIN typically uses choke bomb > Fighting spirit > time bomb > lightning rod > LMB/RMB/F (18s in your example) Don't forget to add lightning stride before the poison stacks end for about a 22-25k crit. Once that is over they throw choke bomb again (since the cooldown is reset after using FS) for another 10s of LMB/RMB/F, then stack another 5 poison or stealth dps until choke bomb/FS is up again. 

[InstantDeath]

1 hour ago, devildawg said:

We will be getting a DPS meter in the next patch and SIN is getting huge changes so i don't want to get into much of "which classes have the highest DPS", I would like to add that a real DPS test should not be 18 seconds long as it doesn't prove much. The reason is because EVERY class has big burst of damage at the start of battle ONLY when their skills are not on cooldown. After that 18 seconds the BM has a long cooldown for lightning draw for example, or FM meteor shower/inferno, or destroyer Fury. The SIN on the other hand can easily stack another 5 poison and go to town, or keep fast up constant DPS in stealth.

 

Also, the SIN typically uses choke bomb > Fighting spirit > time bomb > lightning rod > LMB/RMB/F (18s in your example) Don't forget to add lightning stride before the poison stacks end for about a 22-25k crit. Once that is over they throw choke bomb again (since the cooldown is reset after using FS) for another 10s of LMB/RMB/F, then stack another 5 poison or stealth dps until choke bomb/FS is up again. 

I believe 18-25 second is a good period of time when comparing dps. Because you won't be able to land consecutive hits more than 18-20 seconds in the end game dungeons, because bosses will either run and you'll chase them or they'll be invincible and do their stuff for a period of time like asura or taikhan.

[devildawg]

8 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

I believe 18-25 second is a good period of time when comparing dps. Because you won't be able to land consecutive hits more than 18-20 seconds in the end game dungeons, because bosses will either run and you'll chase them or they'll be invincible and do their stuff for a period of time like asura or taikhan.

Your test results were from attacking dummies, like you said in your previous post. We are not comparing vs attacking bosses in dungeons because yes long range can stand there to DPS. But raw DPS testing was done on training dummies by you and your clanmates so a longer test can be done to see raw dps. 

[Shiune]

13 hours ago, InstantDeath said:

I believe 18-25 second is a good period of time when comparing dps. Because you won't be able to land consecutive hits more than 18-20 seconds in the end game dungeons, because bosses will either run and you'll chase them or they'll be invincible and do their stuff for a period of time like asura or taikhan.

No that's exactly the WORST WAY to test the dps of a class. 

 

The dmg you are doing in ~20 seconds is considered as BURST DMG and not DPS (and we all know that there are classes out there which are much more burst than SIN). 

 

DPS is counted by the end of a whole bossfight (that's why you check your dps meter at the end of a bossfight). 

 

I can guarantee you that SIN is together with FM the strongest >dps< class by the end of a bossfight because the damage of those 2 classes is consistently high while WLs, KFMs, or BMs damage is high for some seconds but then has a long cooldown with low damage (burst). 

 

We will see it once the dps meter is out but I can guarantee you now already that I will outdps any class with my gear except for good FMs maybe. 

[InstantDeath]

4 hours ago, Shiune said:

 

We ill see it once the dps meter is out but I can guarantee you now already that I will outdps any class with my gear except for good FMs maybe. 

SSPlains ; Burst damage rules,
Sogun's Lament ; Burst damage rules,
Shattered Nest ; Burst damage rules,
Tower of infinity ; Burst damage rules,
Mushin Tower ; Burst damage rules...

Sin is like a marathon runner while FM,WL,Summoner or Destroyer is a sprinter. The thing is, you need a long and steady course but the end game content is like 100m hurdles. I hope i explained myself better.

Last but not least , wanna bet on it ? Sin will be the 4th or 5th. Top 3 is FM,Sum,WL... Once we get heartstab legendary badge, then we'll be in top 3.

[Shiune]

15 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

SSPlains ; Burst damage rules,
Sogun's Lament ; Burst damage rules,
Shattered Nest ; Burst damage rules,
Tower of infinity ; Burst damage rules,
Mushin Tower ; Burst damage rules...

Sin is like a marathon runner while FM,WL,Summoner or Destroyer is a sprinter. The thing is, you need a long and steady course but the end game content is like 100m hurdles. I hope i explained myself better.

Last but not least , wanna bet on it ? Sin will be the 4th or 5th. Top 3 is FM,Sum,WL... Once we get heartstab legendary badge, then we'll be in top 3.

Sorry for stupid quote (this forum is cancer for smartphones). 

 

 

However future endcontent dungeons will have bosses with 100m+ bosses and with nearly no mechanics (pure dps race). 

 

And yeah i'm in for a bet. 

 

My first bet is that a summoner will be much lower in the list as you expect. 

My 2nd one is that only a FM will outdps ME (no other trash sin - i'm talking about ME). 

 

[InstantDeath]

7 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Sorry for stupid quote (this forum is cancer for smartphones). 

 

 

However future endcontent dungeons will have bosses with 100m+ bosses and with nearly no mechanics (pure dps race). 

 

And yeah i'm in for a bet. 

 

My first bet is that a summoner will be much lower in the list as you expect. 

My 2nd one is that only a FM will outdps ME (no other trash sin - i'm talking about ME). 

 

You seem so sure about yourself. Do you mind if you tell me which build and rotation you use for the best dps?

[Shiune]

10 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

You seem so sure about yourself. Do you mind if you tell me which build and rotation you use for the best dps?

I'm just playing Dark Build with a good ping and perfect rotation.

 

And i'm only so full of myself because (without sounding arrogant) I know how to perfectly play SIN in PvE while pretty much 90% of all other SINS sadly have no idea what they are doing. 

[InstantDeath]

6 minutes ago, Shiune said:

I'm just playing Dark Build with a good ping and perfect rotation.

 

And i'm only so full of myself because (without sounding arrogant) I know how to perfectly play SIN in PvE while pretty much 90% of all other SINS sadly have no idea what they are doing. 

Thanks, that's the end of our discussion for me, hf in game.

[xCandyBear]

On 02/08/2016 at 5:11 PM, devildawg said:

For party support they have the same or more than other classes so I'm not sure what you are complaining about, unless you were unaware of them: 

 

v: Fighting Spirit / pull all dead or near dead party members up to 100m / Party teleport

2: Decoy S2/T3 - Party save - done it many times in Yeti

x: smoke screen - either stealth party with .5 parry for all members who enter stealth, or resist projectiles and recover HP/focus for 10s for party

 

Also, SINs are a harder class to use for a reason, but you can definitely tank, just like ANY class can if required. I tanked alongside another SIN for Asura, and the entire dungeon because we had no 'real' tank class such as the BM or KFM. 

And i bet when u die or dps being sht is never your fault but ur party problem lol ego is so overrated!!! I played sin ever since the beginning of this game and ur comment is so unhelpful just egotistical. 

 

And yeah cant quote properly on my smartphone =. =

[Alter]

I use lightning build and my dps is pretty awesome. I tank very quite often too unless there's a kfm involved or someone with higher AP. If you find yourself out of stealth clicking LMB, unless you're ani-cancelling with Dark Strike, you're doing it wrong. When I run with my usual friends (any mix of BD, Des, and FM), I'm pretty much the tank in every 4-man/3-man dungeon, though I haven't tried 4 man Shattered Mast yet. I almost never press LMB for dps.