Akiha Kou

How is this balanced or fair?

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I have a level 45 summoner trying arena out for the first time, and I am immediately paired up with people 10+ levels above me. HM level 8's, 9's, and 10's that I actually stand no chance against. What am I doing wrong?

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Natello   

How many wins and loses do you have? You've might have won against good players, so the game thinks you are worthy enough to face those people.

 

Or.. they might have lost a lot of games against their own level so they get matched with lower levels.

 

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Avalyn   

You're a summoner. I don't know what you mean when you say you have no chance.

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Shuchin   

Arena rankings are reset for every season, so even if someone is at HM 8 they might just have taken a break for a few days and will start in bronze like everyone else, lvl 45s or even lvl 30s. Rankings rise faster at higher levels, so ideally such people should be gone from bronze quickly.

 

However, currently arena is suffering from something that could ironically be called a lack of bad / inexperienced players.

 

Since the rankings are based on win/lose events, essentially the diamond players stay up there by defeating platinum players, who stay up there by defeating golds, who need to defeat silvers, who stand on the shoulders of people like you who are new and inexperienced. As a result, even players that are quite decent at PvP and have a lot of HM skills end up in silver, because there are not enough low level / bad players to push them up to gold.

The end result is that arena is not very forgiving to beginners any more. When the game was new it was easy to reach gold by button mashing. Now, no-one will leave silver who cannot recognize a blown TAB.

 

That said, summoners have a great skill set and are fully capable of defeating HM X players at lvl 45. It is not a bad level to start arena practice. :)

Player skill counts for much more than skill points and even secret technique skills. Recently had an assassin in arena that was lvl 48 and he won 2:1, then I won 2:1. Even match-up, even though I am HM8. Kudos to him.

 

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N3ro   

Actually the game DOES consider your level i believe. Just in a different way than you might think. You just get worse opponents judged by their rating. Their level does not get considered.

 

Thats just my experience as i do have a main sin at hm8 and and alt sin at lvl 49 and im able to get into top 30 with my 49 sin too and imo i constantly get worse opponents. I did met silver badges with 1.8k rating still constantly, while on my main they are an extreme rarity once im that "high". Yes with 49 no hm levels no hm skills sin is actually pretty significantly worse. The time i looked into this my alt sin was still 47 though.

 

Getting mached against high levels actually does not mean you auto loose. Ive beat A LOT of hm8-10+ sins on my sub 50 alt. Levels, although they matter, do not replace a player.

 

I dont know if this still remains true once youre 50 and unlocked your hm levels. Probably not i would imagine as hm levels at some point just get almost a complete non-factor. With hm8 as a sin you can pretty much glyph everything significant and you dont need nearly as many levels if you dont have some hm skills.

Edited by N3ro

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Gratus   
20 hours ago, N3ro said:

Actually the game DOES consider your level i believe. Just in a different way than you might think. You just get worse opponents judged by their rating. Their level does not get considered.

Yes, and you lose less and gain more points if you fight against higher level opponents.

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Desufire   

I personally think the PvP system is a joke. It's all about who has the better crowd control over the most escapes. There's absolutely 0 balancing to class skills. I don't consider it skillful to train every daze/stun/airborne/etc skill your class has and then go and win by "skillfully" using them in a rotation. 

 

I would be happy to just ignore PvP all together, but when the game requires insignias and Zen beans in order for you to be better in pve, that's just shoving an unwanted system down the throat. So I'm here complaining for all the good it'd do. 

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N3ro   

Well its no real rotation considering in higher elos youre *required* to play around tab escapes, or destro blue buff, or escape flowers and when you for instance use your landmine and dont hit it youll have to make your combo work without it. Also ppl can use f rolls whenever they want and so youll have to be able to tech chase with pretty much all of your skills. Its actually very dynamic once you understand how things work and you can also possibly come back with 20% health no tab escape when your oponent has almost all hp and tab if you THEN outplay him as in cc him > avoid his tab escape > cc him again. Its not out of this world uncommon that that happens.

 

Also how exactly do you require pvp to get better in pve?! Lol

Edited by N3ro

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Because the seasons change so often, and there are so few people are playing, you can be matched against a level 26 one match and the next one it will be an HM10 guy with all the HM skills unlocked. Do not expect to climb ranks in the arena unless you are a PvP god.

 

My experiences are such that I normally can win one match of the 3 on a day it is a Daily challenge, and I expect to lose all 3 on any other day & get pleasantly surprised when I win. To keep ELO going up you don't need high winning ratio in BnS (I came from a game that required 70+% winning ratio to raise ELO, otherwise it went down and down).

 

My experiences also tell me that a level of the opponent is not a predictor of how the match is gonna go. I have a Summoner with HM7 and two HM skills unlocked (no LMB), and a Warlock on HM3 without any skills.

 

I had back to back matches where my Summoner was obliterated by a Blademaster without ever having a chance to even move or activate an I-frame, when the next match my Warlock that usually folds to anything above level 34 that can set off an attack in his approximate direction, dispatched an HM10 Blademaster.

 

Bronze and Silver tiers is so uneven that worrying about your ELO until you are able to climb steadily over 1600 is pointless. Over a sufficient number of matches, your ELO will place your character correctly as a combination of your build, skills, HM skills unlocks, level, and your player aptitude.

 

Most folks are average in everything, so 1400-1600 is what you could expect. rewards, of course, suck at that level, but arenas are fun, and you can grind HM skills via it.

Edited by DomiSotto

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Desufire   
On 7/8/2016 at 7:57 AM, N3ro said:


Also how exactly do you require pvp to get better in pve?! Lol

HM skills, Soulstones, etc items. Right now the pouches from doing the 4 dailies give a decent amount of SS, so that's awesome. But it still feels like NCsoft is shoving PvP down my throat with every addition they make. "Here's a practice arena!" "Here's a new tower that is nothing but PvP!" "Here's a new battleground....that's PvP!"

 

On subject to the quote though, yeah, you want HM skills to kill better and faster in PvE. Best way to get them is PvP. Upgrading my Siren weapon required me to PvP in Misty to grind insigs. Some form of PvP is required to progress in PvE.

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N3ro   
6 hours ago, Desufire said:

HM skills, Soulstones, etc items. Right now the pouches from doing the 4 dailies give a decent amount of SS, so that's awesome. But it still feels like NCsoft is shoving PvP down my throat with every addition they make. "Here's a practice arena!" "Here's a new tower that is nothing but PvP!" "Here's a new battleground....that's PvP!"

 

On subject to the quote though, yeah, you want HM skills to kill better and faster in PvE. Best way to get them is PvP. Upgrading my Siren weapon required me to PvP in Misty to grind insigs. Some form of PvP is required to progress in PvE.

Oh yeah.. i like how pvp players legit complain about hm skills being *MUCH EASIER* to optain threw pve and at the same time pve players are feeling "forced" to pvp, because they HAVE TO (?!) get their hm skills threw pvp? News flash you can get all your hms threw pve and it´s faster...

And also you make more money with pve than a pvp player would threw farming his ss pouches.

 

And there is no "etc items" that you would need. That´s everything valuable you can get threw pvp. SS and HM skills (kinda).

 

How clueless people can be and still complain anyway....

Edited by N3ro

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Game matchmaking needs to be improved, rank silver lv39 bd, first time going arena with it and whoop dee doo, i get the hm10/9/8. like for real.

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N3ro   

There is literally not a soul queing below 50 a lot of the time. Lets improve the system and make you wait ages...

 

What do you want them to do? Add official bots that you can farm?

And no its not that no one new gets into b&s, but new players who actually play the game are 50 within days or a week.

Edited by N3ro

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Cathy   

A sum crying that funny, anyway you just have no skills, as you said you're trying for the first time, levels don't matter in arena it's your skills, yesterday I beat someone 11 times higher than me, Lyn Blade Master vs Lyn Blade Master and won, she has no skill. Last week, killed a HM 11 Summoner and HM8 Warlock on my 45 FM and Hm 4 LBM.

 

Go practice.

Edited by Cathy

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Pesto   

for someone to be 11 times higher than you you'd have to be under level 5 o_o


speaking of the good old days...

GY0Hvfyh.jpg

 

 

and i only l started losing once i was fighting them hacking summoner bots =(

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Puffys   
On 7/7/2016 at 2:07 AM, Akiha Kou said:

I have a level 45 summoner trying arena out for the first time, and I am immediately paired up with people 10+ levels above me. HM level 8's, 9's, and 10's that I actually stand no chance against. What am I doing wrong?

2 vs 1 with a total hp about 70k Hp is totally fair?

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i knew as soon as i read the initial post you'd get trolled for days. sorry man.

summoner use to be good in lower tiers so people are still very biased and angry. Most of it comes from people who get wrecked in bronze because "it isn't fair against summoner...there's two different things i can click on".

Once you hit lvl 50 and get some hm skills you should be able to fight some classes like bd and bm relatively easy. Many other classes though if they also have full hm skills and have any idea how their class works, you will be at a disadvantage. Some breakdowns under the summoner class for fighting different classes. I'd definitely take the time to lvl up, get the hm skillpoints/skills and really practice the class well.

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Enoll   

I am with you man, few months back when i was level 45 I used to absolutely face roll people playing only with the mouse, now I need to use my keyboard every now and then and it is getting really annoying sometimes because I lose very easily even when using keyboard :(

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Quite frankly i think they need to disable all HM skills in arena. Nowadays the HM skills are such BS arena isn't truly equal. It literally takes no skill whatsoever at the level 50 cap as long as you have all of your HM skills, and it's annoying. The kicker is that when you lose to people who spam their HM iframes/stuns/resists on SM, they say you're trash. Summoner takes far more skill without HM moves than any other class, and I've played them all. Not to mention the nerfs we keep getting while everyone else gets buffed.
BnS is legit the only game I've ever played where melees can kick the shit out of any caster ezpz, and it's stupid. Only #1 summoner ever makes top 10, yet people say the class is easy because they're mostly gold...
If the class was easy, they'd fill the top 10 spots like BD/SN/DS. That's just common sense because top people are those that WIN. Being gold(which is about average) =/= easy.

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On 12.08.2016 at 0:19 AM, Elysienna said:

Quite frankly i think they need to disable all HM skills in arena. Nowadays the HM skills are such BS arena isn't truly equal. It literally takes no skill whatsoever at the level 50 cap as long as you have all of your HM skills, and it's annoying. The kicker is that when you lose to people who spam their HM iframes/stuns/resists on SM, they say you're trash. Summoner takes far more skill without HM moves than any other class, and I've played them all. Not to mention the nerfs we keep getting while everyone else gets buffed.
BnS is legit the only game I've ever played where melees can kick the shit out of any caster ezpz, and it's stupid. Only #1 summoner ever makes top 10, yet people say the class is easy because they're mostly gold...
If the class was easy, they'd fill the top 10 spots like BD/SN/DS. That's just common sense because top people are those that WIN. Being gold(which is about average) =/= easy.

Hahahahaah. If you can't play summoner right, you can't play anything, just quit.

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On 7/8/2016 at 11:22 AM, DomiSotto said:

Because the seasons change so often, and there are so few people are playing, you can be matched against a level 26 one match and the next one it will be an HM10 guy with all the HM skills unlocked. Do not expect to climb ranks in the arena unless you are a PvP god.

Wait, I thought all I had to do was play summoner?  :D

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16 hours ago, RageFrost said:

Wait, I thought all I had to do was play summoner?  :D

Absolutely. Do it. Good luck.

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