Yeti Assassin Party Saver Guide - Who needs an FM anyway?

[tandava]

3 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

Perfectly enough for 4-man yeti for example. After you learn the freezing mechanism it'll be super easy and people will gladly take you in party because most of them are scared to do dungeons without FM. I remember how one toxic scummoner was acting high and mighty rushing everything and then telling he won't stop DPS at 33 % because my friend pointed out his rushing and we didn't have FM. Luckily I am BD with lots of experience and HM skill so that worked just for my advance. :D Just for record I have done Asura and Nexus with no problems on my 494 AP summoner. ^^

You're a braver soul than me to try it. :D

 

Freezing Yeti isn't just a matter of knowing what to do, though. It's hard to follow the Yeti's jump on my laptop - if I manage to hit him before he lands, it's sheer luck. It might be because my computer is too slow: I've never been able to do high jumps, either, and a GM who watched me thought it might be either my keyboard or my ping rate.  I get better with practice, but I just accept I'll never be a pro -- even if I had 600 ap. T_T

 

On the bright side, I'm very happy about the alternative party strategies in this thread! :D

[Lunakitty]

4 minutes ago, tandava said:

You're a braver soul than me to try it. :D

 

Freezing Yeti isn't just a matter of knowing what to do, though. It's hard to follow the Yeti's jump on my laptop - if I manage to hit him before he lands, it's sheer luck. It might be because my computer is too slow: I've never been able to do high jumps, either, and a GM who watched me thought it might be either my keyboard or my ping rate.  I get better with practice, but I just accept I'll never be a pro -- even if I had 600 ap. T_T

 

On the bright side, I'm very happy about the alternative party strategies in this thread! :D

I actually never let FM freeze me when ever I am on my BD because I have trust issues with pug FMs. :S The biggest mistake they keep doing is to use party freeze after the cruxes when Yeti jumps.

[Majka]

13 minutes ago, tandava said:

491 or 2. I'm waiting for mats to drop in price a bit before my next upgrade, so my AP is probably below what's expected for my level. I wish I had more time to grind so I could just keep pushing HM levels. It looks like I'll only be able to get HM9 out of the hp event.

Your AP is good for almost all contents, maybe just Asura could be a bit tricky, but of course it depends on party. Yesterday I "carried" at Yeti a friend with more or less your same amount of AP and everything was fine despite lag and random client freeze. Our party was about 520 AP average. If you are on EU I'll be glad to run dungeons with you.

 

I'm experienced Yeti with FM of course and I can assure you that with an FM who knows what to do at exact phase Yeti is really easy.

[HungryTaro]

1 hour ago, tandava said:

As an FM, I thank you a billion times over for for this. For me at least, it's really hard to hit the Yeti on the second jump - especially if I've been KB or forced to dodge first.  Yet there is a heavy expectation that I will save the party, and if I don't I must be a "noob". If I were that great at it, I'd be applying to the private party or doing 4-man. I choose to do the cross-server because I need a party where we share responsibility, and there's plenty of safety net.

 

Ironically, the lower the level, the bigger the assertion I must be a noob if I don't save them. Tonight was especially frustrating because multiple HM1s kept trying to join Yeti. I'm not going to carry those parties -- not because I'm mean-spirited, but because I may not be able to, and I don't want to hear everyone blaming me for it. Tonight I gave up on finishing Daily Challenge, even though it's the first one I would have been able to complete since the new patch, and I need the rewards, because I couldn't get a party at equal responsibility levels in over *2 hours*. It was even more irksome that I can't leave a party while the HM1s who start them wait for it to fill...with other HM1s.

 

The rest of the party is going to be just as grumpy when people leave party as soon as they enter the dungeon: there should be a way to leave as soon as it's clear the party isn't going to work. Better yet, it would be good to be able to set level parameters for the party you will join (bottom limit 1 or 2 levels below your own to prevent you from leeching).

 

Anyway, thanks for taking the unfair pressure off the FMs. Hopefully that dungeon will be less full of "toxic personalities" as a result.

Honestly,  I don't expect FM to save me.. I mean it's all our respondsibility to survive, fm is just an extra safety net, i guess. Actually... my bm is the one that ends up saving the party instead (hm block and they can iframe all 8 crux too if they manage their I frames correctly - I could only do 5 until I start messing the last 6 to 8 crux, lol) 

 

I dunno, maybe I have better experience with having HM1 characters in my party than you...or I just don't expect people to be at the same level as I am when I click for pug lfp. I mean.. if you want the same level perimeter as you.. might as well make your own room and look but honestly I guess I'm just really iffy on your statement since some HM1 are better than some hm 5 to 8. But I guess your just pressured into thinking that you'll be blamed for not saving them (low lvl characters), I would have actually argue and smacked them if they do start pointing blames, lol.

[ArcanumZodiak]

2 hours ago, tandava said:

As an FM, I thank you a billion times over for for this. For me at least, it's really hard to hit the Yeti on the second jump - especially if I've been KB or forced to dodge first.  Yet there is a heavy expectation that I will save the party, and if I don't I must be a "noob". If I were that great at it, I'd be applying to the private party or doing 4-man. I choose to do the cross-server because I need a party where we share responsibility, and there's plenty of safety net.

 

Ironically, the lower the level, the bigger the assertion I must be a noob if I don't save them. Tonight was especially frustrating because multiple HM1s kept trying to join Yeti. I'm not going to carry those parties -- not because I'm mean-spirited, but because I may not be able to, and I don't want to hear everyone blaming me for it. Tonight I gave up on finishing Daily Challenge, even though it's the first one I would have been able to complete since the new patch, and I need the rewards, because I couldn't get a party at equal responsibility levels in over *2 hours*. It was even more irksome that I can't leave a party while the HM1s who start them wait for it to fill...with other HM1s.

 

The rest of the party is going to be just as grumpy when people leave party as soon as they enter the dungeon: there should be a way to leave as soon as it's clear the party isn't going to work. Better yet, it would be good to be able to set level parameters for the party you will join (bottom limit 1 or 2 levels below your own to prevent you from leeching).

 

Anyway, thanks for taking the unfair pressure off the FMs. Hopefully that dungeon will be less full of "toxic personalities" as a result.

well yday i was in a party in xserver, and after some guys saying "trust your FM" i replied "I wouldnt", everybody always told me that i had to freeze the party but yday i finally learnt WHEN..but no one called me a noob and after the first wipe everybody kiled stepped on the cruxes and, the AP diference between us was from 100 to 140 AP (me having 560 AP, the rest sub 450), well but yday i got some friendly guys on my parties.

 

OP, i spoke with my friend wich is a sin about he saving us in yeti on 4 man, (as i said i didnt knew when to freeze), he replied "no, cuz i will lose my buff"

[Shadovvv]

7 minutes ago, ArcanumZodiak said:

OP, i spoke with my friend wich is a sin about he saving us in yeti on 4 man, (as i said i didnt knew when to freeze), he replied "no, cuz i will lose my buff"

Tell him to take just one crux and iframe the remaining 7. He doesn't have to lose Fighting Spirit for it, or drop a gimmicky Smokescreen.

[Nabzy]

7 hours ago, tandava said:

As an FM, I thank you a billion times over for for this. For me at least, it's really hard to hit the Yeti on the second jump - especially if I've been KB or forced to dodge first.  Yet there is a heavy expectation that I will save the party, and if I don't I must be a "noob". If I were that great at it, I'd be applying to the private party or doing 4-man. I choose to do the cross-server because I need a party where we share responsibility, and there's plenty of safety net.

 

Ironically, the lower the level, the bigger the assertion I must be a noob if I don't save them. Tonight was especially frustrating because multiple HM1s kept trying to join Yeti. I'm not going to carry those parties -- not because I'm mean-spirited, but because I may not be able to, and I don't want to hear everyone blaming me for it. Tonight I gave up on finishing Daily Challenge, even though it's the first one I would have been able to complete since the new patch, and I need the rewards, because I couldn't get a party at equal responsibility levels in over *2 hours*. It was even more irksome that I can't leave a party while the HM1s who start them wait for it to fill...with other HM1s.

 

The rest of the party is going to be just as grumpy when people leave party as soon as they enter the dungeon: there should be a way to leave as soon as it's clear the party isn't going to work. Better yet, it would be good to be able to set level parameters for the party you will join (bottom limit 1 or 2 levels below your own to prevent you from leeching).

 

Anyway, thanks for taking the unfair pressure off the FMs. Hopefully that dungeon will be less full of "toxic personalities" as a result.

You're more than welcome. I actually have an FM "POV" video that I can annotate to turn into a guide if you'd like. I've been waiting for a 'request' to do so, because there are plenty of guides out there already.

5 hours ago, HungryTaro said:

Honestly,  I don't expect FM to save me.. I mean it's all our respondsibility to survive,

This 100000x.

 

If a party member has anyone to blame for wiping, it's themselves for not stepping on 1 or 2 ices and iframing the remaining cruxes themselves (or not speccing double cc for during heatphases). 

[OniOfTheSword]

5 hours ago, HungryTaro said:

Honestly,  I don't expect FM to save me.. I mean it's all our respondsibility to survive, fm is just an extra safety net, i guess. Actually... my bm is the one that ends up saving the party instead (hm block and they can iframe all 8 crux too if they manage their I frames correctly - I could only do 5 until I start messing the last 6 to 8 crux, lol) 

Pretty much this. I feel sorry/bad for people who advertise Yeti with "need FM". It means they're not willing to learn their class and the mechanics, and rely on people to save them or play the blame game. It's unfair on FMs, especially the ones who are new-ish to Yeti.

 

When people ask me if they should stop dps-ing at 33%, I just ask them to go ham cause unless I lag (which doesn't happen unless the servers derp), I'm able to i-frame all 8 ground pounds and use HM block to save the party every time. 

[Nabzy]

6 hours ago, OniOfTheSword said:

Pretty much this. I feel sorry/bad for people who advertise Yeti with "need FM". It means they're not willing to learn their class and the mechanics, and rely on people to save them or play the blame game. It's unfair on FMs, especially the ones who are new-ish to Yeti.

 

When people ask me if they should stop dps-ing at 33%, I just ask them to go ham cause unless I lag (which doesn't happen unless the servers derp), I'm able to i-frame all 8 ground pounds and use HM block to save the party every time. 

Right. I'm not sure why people don't even want to learn mechanics for dungeons like Yeti that are so beneficial to run due to their short completion time. To me, learning Yeti mechanics is a blast. If I'm on a new character, then I queue in a party with someone who knows how to save and then see how far I can make it before I mess up. I get a thrill if I make it all the way through. That's such a huge accomplishment for me. If not, then whoever knows how to save the party is my fallback. 

 

Then once I learn all that, if I have a party saver, I can queue up with whoever I want because I know I can save the party if they make mistakes. After learning Yeti mechanics on my FM and then transitioning to my alt sin, I felt so helpless and never trusted someone else to save me. I probably did less than 5 or so runs before I was tired of feeling helpless and reliant on others and worked on the rotations for the cruxes myself. I didn't even know assassins had a party saver or how it worked at the time.

[Shadovvv]

18 hours ago, OniOfTheSword said:

Pretty much this. I feel sorry/bad for people who advertise Yeti with "need FM". It means they're not willing to learn their class and the mechanics, and rely on people to save them or play the blame game. It's unfair on FMs, especially the ones who are new-ish to Yeti.

It really triggers me when people think they can just powerhouse things and not do mechanics at all. People take absolutely no effort to minimize risks, and it's not just Yeti. The ranged lazily refuse to kite or block stuff and help relieve pressure off the melees, and then blame melees for dying when the ranged could have prevented it in the first place. And then there's people who do 6-0 on Ken/Gen when in reality its so much slower than 3-3/5-1.

 

We've pretty much reached the point where mechanics can't be ignored and there's no safe shortcut around them. I don't expect the FM or myself to group iframe because stuff can go wrong, e.g. lag.

[Lunakitty]

There have been FMs who are completely clueless of their skill. I once met FM of HM6 who asked me what is Frost Sheath. There are alot of FMs who don't realize their potential or care to learn what they can do. Best way to learn in my opinion is to watch experienced FM doing the freezing and mimicing it. That's how I mastered freezing on my first ever Yeti run on my FM. Same applies to every single class.

[Nabzy]

3 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

There have been FMs who are completely clueless of their skill. I once met FM of HM6 who asked me what is Frost Sheath. There are alot of FMs who don't realize their potential or care to learn what they can do. Best way to learn in my opinion is to watch experienced FM doing the freezing and mimicing it. That's how I mastered freezing on my first ever Yeti run on my FM. Same applies to every single class.

Yeah. I remember when I had to learn how to frost sheath a few weeks after I started the game. I was invited to a 4 man BSC party and they kept trying to have me sheath the first boss' water heat attack when I no idea how to even spec the ability to begin with, haha. 

[Lunakitty]

44 minutes ago, Nabzy said:

Yeah. I remember when I had to learn how to frost sheath a few weeks after I started the game. I was invited to a 4 man BSC party and they kept trying to have me sheath the first boss' water heat attack when I no idea how to even spec the ability to begin with, haha. 

Fun part is that people in 6-man nowadays don't expect FMs to do that. They always scream out "noob" if you avoid the grab and then stun Yeti or don't stop DPSing at 33 %. I love how someone raged at me and said he reported me (for killing Yeti I assume since I didn't do anything else) on my 630 AP main BD on whom I can resist all 8 cruxes and party save with my HM skill. :')

[Nabzy]

 

2 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

Fun part is that people in 6-man nowadays don't expect FMs to do that. They always scream out "noob" if you avoid the grab and then stun Yeti or don't stop DPSing at 33 %. I love how someone raged at me and said he reported me (for killing Yeti I assume since I didn't do anything else) on my 630 AP main BD on whom I can resist all 8 cruxes and party save with my HM skill. :')

I don't ever run 6 man yeti anymore, so I wasn't really aware people still did the grab/throw tank method.

[Shadovvv]

9 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

There have been FMs who are completely clueless of their skill. I once met FM of HM6 who asked me what is Frost Sheath. There are alot of FMs who don't realize their potential or care to learn what they can do. Best way to learn in my opinion is to watch experienced FM doing the freezing and mimicing it. That's how I mastered freezing on my first ever Yeti run on my FM. Same applies to every single class.

Likewise the same thing happens to Sins with their party save (but to be fair the in-game wording is just awful). It really worries me when Sins literally must use their party save in the upcoming dungeons, and then don't do it. I've met Sins who just outright refuse to use their party save and would rather see their party survive on their own accord, and while this is true, it's not doing much not trying to further minimize risks.

[Lunakitty]

19 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Likewise the same thing happens to Sins with their party save (but to be fair the in-game wording is just awful). It really worries me when Sins literally must use their party save in the upcoming dungeons, and then don't do it. I've met Sins who just outright refuse to use their party save and would rather see their party survive on their own accord, and while this is true, it's not doing much not trying to further minimize risks.

It is just not sins. It is every single class in the game that expects other to survive themselves. I have seen only FMs to be expected to party save or KFM/BM/WL to block in asura/nexus and FM/Sum using their Divine Veil or Petal Storm for protection.

[Nabzy]

9 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

It is just not sins. It is every single class in the game that expects other to survive themselves. I have seen only FMs to be expected to party save or KFM/BM/WL to block in asura/nexus and FM/Sum using their Divine Veil or Petal Storm for protection.

I just encounterd a 600+ AP FM that didn't know how to sheath. When i mentioned it to my clan, one of my clanmates said that he ran into a 600+ AP FM that was running yeti for the first time (or so he claimed). 

9 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

It is just not sins. It is every single class in the game that expects other to survive themselves. I have seen only FMs to be expected to party save or KFM/BM/WL to block in asura/nexus and FM/Sum using their Divine Veil or Petal Storm for protection.

I always spec parry tab on my FM in Asura and make sure I can decoy the balls on my sin in asura. No reason to take a chance -- whoever is tanking or blocking could die, you know?

[Shadovvv]

11 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

It is just not sins. It is every single class in the game that expects other to survive themselves. I have seen only FMs to be expected to party save or KFM/BM/WL to block in asura/nexus and FM/Sum using their Divine Veil or Petal Storm for protection.

And then there's Sins expected to solo one lane of Ken/Gen's pathway... but strangely I've never seen anyone ask me to stealth past Iruga's trash mobs. I've heard of struggles from other sins, and then there's people just being a jerk about it all, especially when they didn't allow me to do my "expected" duty.

[Marqin]

12 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

It is just not sins. It is every single class in the game that expects other to survive themselves.

I always try resisting everything, even if I go with people I trust that will partysave me. It's just a good habit ( and can help if they eg. lag ).

 

Also, if you guys survive until cold phase with both coils on 6man there's really low chance that you will wipe, even if you don't have party saves and just dps ignoring shrooms.

[Nabzy]

6 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

And then there's Sins expected to solo one lane of Ken/Gen's pathway... but strangely I've never seen anyone ask me to stealth past Iruga's trash mobs. I've heard of struggles from other sins, and then there's people just being a jerk about it all, especially when they didn't allow me to do my "expected" duty.

Very rarely when I run asura do I come across a party that can make it past the beginning pathways without someone dying. It always takes everyone so long that I ask to solo one side whether I'm on my FM or Sin. Both classes can easily solo one side without a problem -- Yet I see FMs dying all the time. You literally press C (4 pts)  --> V and you heal to full...

[Dlacik]

On 28. 6. 2016 at 3:45 PM, OniOfTheSword said:

When people ask me if they should stop dps-ing at 33%, I just ask them to go ham cause unless I lag (which doesn't happen unless the servers derp), I'm able to i-frame all 8 ground pounds and use HM block to save the party every time. 

As BM you don`t need to iframe all 8 ground pounds. Iframe 5 of them and use the HM block for the remaining 3. The freeze on others won`t get refreshed and they will unfreeze before big jump. And you can do free dps for the last 3 pounds.

[OniOfTheSword]

8 minutes ago, Dlacik said:

As BM you don`t need to iframe all 8 ground pounds. Iframe 5 of them and use the HM block for the remaining 3. The freeze on others won`t get refreshed and they will unfreeze before big jump. And you can do free dps for the last 3 pounds.

I've seen people dying from the big slam, so I don't take any chances. Besides, if everyone but me is frozen, then the dps done during 3 pounds from just me is insignificant as opposed to an extra person being alive.

[Nabzy]

3 hours ago, OniOfTheSword said:

I've seen people dying from the big slam, so I don't take any chances. Besides, if everyone but me is frozen, then the dps done during 3 pounds from just me is insignificant as opposed to an extra person being alive.

You can look at their HP and decide whether or not to HM block the last 3 and risk them getting hit by the slam. The slam only does around 20k damage I believe when you are not frozen. When you ARE frozen I think it's about 58k. 

[Nabzy]

Thanks to everyone that gave feedback on my video about this thread. I did realize annotating the video wasn't the best way to make it and I have been considering remaking the video with voice instead. 

[Shadovvv]

Let me share my interesting Yeti runs today, with people putting their misguided faith in Force Master:

• Trust the FM? They blew Frost Sheath on the third heat phase and he immediately went to ice phase. I mistimed my Q, frost sheath was on cooldown, and no one else was a party saving class so I died. Okay, can we keep putting our faith in the FM? Nope, they failed to frost sheath the next ice phase. Wipe imminent? Not on my revive charm's watch. Only one person actually thanked me for the save (and it wasn't the FM).
• I'd never thought I'd meet the fabled "bad Sins" (I have people hidden from view so I can't tell their performance other than poison, stealth smokescreen, and dying), two in a LFP I joined had 570 AP, one of them had aggro and got grabbed, and both died to just the first jump slam from the heat phase, and ragequitted immediately after. The third member (a Sum) also ragequitted as LFP replacements did not yield an FM. Boo hoo, a LFP search of my own of two Sums and a BM got through just fine.
• Since when the heck was Frost Sheath used on the heat vacuum? Twice this happened today and they didn't warn us when they were asked if they were good at frost sheathing, their excuse was they expected the Sum (and not me) to use their group iframe (and by the way the Sums didn't use it). I had aggro and I expected to use my Tab Escape (8 meter backflip + 1 poison stack + 5 chi recovery) , but since F is a part of my main rotation I broke out of ice early, was confused, and got grabbed.

People need to stop hailing Force Masters as their lord and savior. With the mentality going on in Yeti I wouldn't doubt people being lazy and completely neglecting to do their own job in Ebondrake/Furnace and outright causing wipes; your duty in handling mechanics is just as important as us being required to save your butt with group stealth.