Melodia

Upgrade costs after patch are completely unreasonable

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Melodia   

Complete weapon upgrade chart with all materials required, I'm not the author: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U0cqRIxNefzkd30VmVI-zFhe3fpBHgq7aIy3vHO6ZTQ/htmlview#

 

A level 40 is supposed to have 7g to spare to upgrade the weapon? When quests give like 5silver each, and there are no daily challenges? (1x moonwater stone + upgrade cost)

A level 45 is supposed to have ANOTHER 13g to spare to upgrade to something way basic like True Profane?

 

 

Pretty much every single step of the upgrade tree after Awakened Infernal is absurd. How in the f*ck did the devs expect new players with no level 50 HM10 alts to be able to afford these kinds of things? Grind at the same level for an eternity to afford those stones? Did they expect players to be still using Awakened Profane at level 50 or something? Because at this rate that's all new players will be using if they don't receive any help from alts. They're pretty much going to grind their ass off even to reach Oathbreaker, and that's still FAR from enough to even TRY any of the level 50 dungeons. The standard right now is like at least True Pirate/Awakened Breeze. And really? Each of these later stages now cost silverfrost stones instead which are 15g each.

 

I was lucky enough to have upgraded to Awakened Pirate before that stupid patch, but my friend who is still new pretty much cannot advance now. Seriously wtf is she supposed to do? Grind quests that hand out 5s each until she accumulates the 20g+ to buy those stupid moonwater stones? Yes I've known about the patch a long time ago and how it "increased upgrade costs" I never really knew how ABSURD the costs are now. I'm not exaggerating when I say costs literally doubled after patch. Just another huge middle finger to new players after every other stupid decision they made. I don't care if "Korea already has this patch". They've had the game WAY longer and everyone already has like 50k gold in their bank accounts, how is that comparable to our situation?

Edited by Melodia

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Negaimu   

lmao bsh is like 350 content. and there is this thing called x server. people need to stop pretending they need insane ap to do easy content.

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Melodia   

So basically you're saying my friend should stay with something absurdly low level like True Infernal until level 50? Are you for real? Do you think she'll have any chance to get into BSH/BSC parties with True Infernal?

Level 50s have no problem affording anything because they have 10x more content to do than sub-50's. I'm talking about all the content before that, why are things so expensive even before 50?? If BnS expects players to completely outlevel their weapons then that's just a really stupid game design. A level 45 is supposed to be only suitable for level 35 content and can only afford a level 35 weapon? What kind of retarded design is that?

 

And by the way, I'm not a new player, I'm already at HM7 so I know how grindy this game is. The only reason I even got here is because I had a bit of financial (in-game gold) help from friends in the form of cheap moonwater stones.

 

If there's anything to be learned from Tera it's their much fairer weapon system. Level 1-65 is a breeze in the park to make new players comfortable. The grind only starts at max level and the improvements have decreasing rate of return, just like any NORMAL MMO, unlike in BnS where it's the complete reverse. There are barely any AP improvements are lower level and MASSIVE improvements near the end.

Edited by Melodia

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In any case, while complaints may give some feedback, it's better to adapt to the current situation instead of waiting for a change that might never happen. Cuz NCSoft.

 

How about having your friend leveling up to lv50 first? It will solve a bunch of income problems. If she cannot go pugs in cross-server, there are always solo quests here and there, like Zaiwei Ruins, Plog Sanctums... Just do what she can do. The income may be not great like purple dungeon dailies, but at least, she will have stable income to slowly progress her stuffs on her own.

 

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The costs went up because ALOT of people need the materials right now. To be honest the upgrades aren't anymore unreasonable knowing that you get 50+ gold by just finishing the story and the current weapons are enough to finish the story line IF the player learns how to use their class. At first it might be hard and seem like undoable but seriously that's what I did on alts. I NEVER traded any gold from my main to alts while I leveled up. And surprisingly people will accept others in parties. One option is to spam lv 45 purples because Moonwater Tears got way more expensive again and just collect money bit by bit from there.

 

Of course I got slight help from my boyfriend by him crafting some items that I needed but I did need to collect them. One option is to simply do Misty Woods faction dailies and sell the Soulstones to gain gold for upgrades or ask someone trusty to craft them in return for materials.

 

In terms of attack power 350ish is completely enough for BSC. Simply keep queuing until you find people who are willing to let you run the dungeon. Not every single one of players are elitist scumbags who cannot let lower levels to joing THEIR content. There is always a way to upgrade if you don't rush with the upgrades but let it come slowly day by day closer.

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Melodia   
10 minutes ago, Negaimu said:

lmao bsh is like 350 content. and there is this thing called x server. people need to stop pretending they need insane ap to do easy content.

You ever heard the thing called "people leave parties when others have low AP"? It's a thing in x server in case you never heard, in fact, it only exists in x server so I find your statement really funny. You're pretty much claiming that everyone in x server are saints and would absolutely never leave the party no matter how low others' AP are right? Lmao.

Now tell me what would be the reaction of most players in this game when half the party shows up with 300AP for BSC/BSH when everyone else is 400+, some even at 500?

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Meese   

The storyline can be done with True Infernal which will give you roughly 50g at the end of it all. That should help out in upgrading to True Profane/Oathbreaker. They can also make crafting professions that would be an easier start for them. Something like Silver Cauldron which can craft antidotes and sell for good amount on the market. There's plenty ways to get started on making money, its not impossible.

 

That being said, I do agree that new players are hit with a huge wall all of a sudden after earlier tiers being easier to upgrade. I think it was a poor design choice but I am extremely doubtful anything will be done about it at this point.

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20 minutes ago, Melodia said:

So basically you're saying my friend should stay with something absurdly low level like True Infernal until level 50? Are you for real? Do you think she'll have any chance to get into BSH/BSC parties with True Infernal?

Level 50s have no problem affording anything because they have 10x more content to do than sub-50's. I'm talking about all the content before that, why are things so expensive even before 50?? If BnS expects players to completely outlevel their weapons then that's just a really stupid game design. A level 45 is supposed to be only suitable for level 35 content and can only afford a level 35 weapon? What kind of retarded design is that?

 

And by the way, I'm not a new player, I'm already at HM7 so I know how grindy this game is. The only reason I even got here is because I had a bit of financial (in-game gold) help from friends in the form of cheap moonwater stones.

 

If there's anything to be learned from Tera it's their much fairer weapon system. Level 1-65 is a breeze in the park to make new players comfortable. The grind only starts at max level and the improvements have decreasing rate of return, just like any NORMAL MMO, unlike in BnS where it's the complete reverse. There are barely any AP improvements are lower level and MASSIVE improvements near the end.

Seems like you forgot about the Profane stage.  You can clear the Lv50 content with the Profane upgrade.  I am at Awakened Profane Stage 7 and have 365AP which can be used to clear BSH and I have seen people with True Inferno running BSH, it's not even a problem since more than likely you will have Lv50s in the group who are geared.

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I did it with brightstone ruins runs and selling my soulstones from misty woods

 

I also got kicked from a lot of parties at first in the lvl 45;s , but I managed to play during the "daily challange" dung runs and hm10 people carried me through lvl 45;s

 

1. tell your friend to get lvl 50 first, forget about wep upgrade if she has Infernal, tell her to FINISH THE QUEST LINE. 

 

other than that, life is a *cricket* and this game is GRIND. 

 

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Skotlex   

I blame moonwater tears for the very expensive MTS costs. Just check my other thread on why tears are a crafting bottleneck: https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/topic/215882-please-fix-moonwater-tear-supplydemand/

 

Refiners / bowls are basic for every other crafted component, yet acquiring Tears is significantly harder than the other tier materials (viridian poisons, cinderland thorns, silverfrost dew). You only get two tears per run, and they must be bid between the party. Since tears themselves are not very valuable for higher level people, the Big Four dungeons aren't run all that frequently, which further diminishes supply.

 

Then there's also the fact that not everybody can make the premium refiners, only the select few who have the merry potters secret technique do. This recipe is hard enough to acquire that it costs 50g or so in market. That leads up to a pretty high markup increase for premium refiners in market.

 

Basically, there's enough people with rich alts to keep current MTS prices (which isn't even that high, actually, profit is around 10% of total material costs), and there aren't enough ways for low level people to earn money and catch up.

 

My suggestion? Make pine saps (tree-cutters). Each sells for 1g, costs 1.25 silver to order, and takes 20h to produce. It's the easiest way to make gold when you are stuck at Moonwater Plains and the quests don't give enough money. Also, run Blightstone Ruins, and bid high for those tears. You'll likely be outbid, but you'll be making money slowly that way; and if a Merry Potter technique drops, go broke, you will probably be outbid, but you'll increase your funds by 20% . If not, you could be making back 10~30g depending on ongoing price.

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All this complainin'.  I just got done running Nexus 4 man with my original hongmoon weap and accessories and a 206 AP and my teammates were glad to have me!  Glad I say!

 

but srsly the path beyond oathbreaker is just stupid grindy and I really feel for those SFs coming up right now.

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Ketsura   
9 minutes ago, Randomonium said:

All this complainin'.  I just got done running Nexus 4 man with my original hongmoon weap and accessories and a 206 AP and my teammates were glad to have me!  Glad I say!

 

but srsly the path beyond oathbreaker is just stupid grindy and I really feel for those SFs coming up right now.

I dont reroll now for example because of the excessive griding.

 

Imagine lose another 3months of life for doing all acc/weapon again?

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6 minutes ago, Ketsura said:

I dont reroll now for example because of the excessive griding.

 

Imagine lose another 3months of life for doing all acc/weapon again?

You see it as losing life, I would see it as 3 months of something to do other than sitting around doing nothing. o.o

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KzE   

Just use the lvl46-50 fodder stuff. Its enough to queue for dungeons. A 420ap dude did us with fodder stuff asura6 without death, ap550+ dudes died left and right.

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Cor   
6 hours ago, Melodia said:

Complete weapon upgrade chart with all materials required, I'm not the author: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U0cqRIxNefzkd30VmVI-zFhe3fpBHgq7aIy3vHO6ZTQ/htmlview#

 

A level 40 is supposed to have 7g to spare to upgrade the weapon? When quests give like 5silver each, and there are no daily challenges? (1x moonwater stone + upgrade cost)

A level 45 is supposed to have ANOTHER 13g to spare to upgrade to something way basic like True Profane?

 

No you are not supposed to have that at lvl 40 you just keep lvling. New players have it already much easier than people before, moonwater stones are dirt cheap compared to what they did cost at launch and people didn't have that ~50g you get from lvling from 45 to 50. For who those easy upgrades are too hard already this isn't the right game to play.

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7 hours ago, Melodia said:

You ever heard the thing called "people leave parties when others have low AP"? It's a thing in x server in case you never heard, in fact, it only exists in x server so I find your statement really funny. You're pretty much claiming that everyone in x server are saints and would absolutely never leave the party no matter how low others' AP are right? Lmao.

Now tell me what would be the reaction of most players in this game when half the party shows up with 300AP for BSC/BSH when everyone else is 400+, some even at 500?

Please... Yesterday I only wanted to run Cold Storage daily. I had Baleful Weapon at Stage 1. Just so you know my AP is above 600 but guess what? I got kicked from party.

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Skotlex   
2 hours ago, Cor said:

New players have it already much easier than people before, moonwater stones are dirt cheap compared to what they did cost at launch and people didn't have that ~50g you get from lvling from 45 to 50.

MTS prices were end-game upgrade material back then, farming materials WAS to make Moonwater Plains stuff. Now that Silverfrost is released, people are supposed to move to Silverfrost materials, yet Moonwater Tears didn't get any easier to obtain.

 

The issue is whether a person with no rich alts can actually make enough money with Infernal gears to eventually upgrade their weapons. Though it is somewhat demoralizing to be doing Silverfrost quests/story when you KNOW your weapon stopped evolving one act ago, it makes the player think they did something wrong.

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QRob   

guys...
everybody knows that b&s is not new-player-friendly at all.
for new players without wallets filled with bunch of money it is very hard to catch up to the other players who have been playing since the begining.
when we (old palyers) started to play, we all had to go through these upgrades, I remember it wasn't so easy from True Infernal weapon to True Pirate. It took time.
But, to the new players: this grinding you need to do to upgrade your weapons on the low levels is not comperable to that gringind that is awaiting you when you wanna upgrade to True Breez/Awakened Scorpion/True Scorpion/Legendary.
For me, as I have been playing since headstart and have a main character, the money to upgrade from Hongmoon weapon to Awakened Breez is literally seems to nothing, since I can make 60-100g/day with my main (depending on drops), but I know that this situation is tough for the new players. If you have wallet or just an old player friend who can help you, it is easier, but most of the new players coming to play are not in such situation.

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Hollow   

Honestly the costs aren't that bad, I just rerolled an alt myself and from the storyline gold I was able to go all the way from the start to true profane just on that gold. There are many weapons that now sell for a fair amount of money in some of the required dungeons (darkglimpse, tainted lab, etc.) so its easy to earn some extra gold here and there.

 

As for continuing on weapon progression it does get more expensive, but you can very easily do misty woods for some soulstones and run silverfrost dailies for tons of money. There are options, you just have to utilize them instead of the queueing for yeti or any of the other endgame heroics with 360 ap and being surprised that people don't want to carry you sometimes.

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Some points... 

 

Back in the day, I leveled a warlock in Taiwan. 

I had no idea how to buy ncoin there so no store items. All I had was myself, no friends, no speaking the language, no store... 

 

I got to level 50 with awakened infernal. Yep. Solo. 

I couldn't afford their prices for keys so I farmed world bosses... Solo. Took 50+ weapon chests to get warlock weapon. 

 

I had a random player solo the bird 45 blue dungeon cause he wanted to do the daily I guess. I just used the gun to help him. He was super nice and gave me tips. 

 

The key thing he said was don't waste time, get to 50, farm dailies at 50. I give the same advice to your friend. 

 

Personally I can carry my lowbie friends to farm their weapons. If it's blue, I can farm for them if the bracers is too expensive. 

I farmed weapons on my main for the Warlock cause warlock weapons were many gold lol. I didn't have that luxury in Taiwan. I got to 50, went and farmed dailies. 

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Gratus   
15 hours ago, Melodia said:

So basically you're saying my friend should stay with something absurdly low level like True Infernal until level 50? Are you for real? Do you think she'll have any chance to get into BSH/BSC parties with True Infernal?

Yes? You can upgrade throughout the Silverfrost storyline since you keep getting enough gold to do so. By the end of it you'll have enough to get True Profane and an AP gem, which puts you at about 400 AP. Get a Breeze crit dmg bracelet (and necklace) from harvest. At this point you can choose to either do level 45 or level 50 content. It depends entirely on how good you are. If you're playing for the first time, then you shouldn't expect to jump to endgame content/gear in a day. With 400 AP you'll surely be accepted in level 45 content parties. Get the soul shields, progress into level 50 content (you should be gitting gud right about now). You can upgrade accessories now if you ran level 45 content for a fair bit.

 

From here on out the grind starts. Anything before is insanely easy, especially if you have google or a friend to help you out (knowledge/tips/tricks or otherwise).

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Vau   

i got through the moonwater grind rather quickly by running lvl 50 content and selling stingers to buy mats/fund my items.

 

if your going to do lvl 50 content max out your crit, no crit primers = bad, i have 520 ap and hold aggro over high ap no crit noobs all day.

 

so stat priority for my build is

 

Crit- very important, very cheap to infuse your entire ss with it- looking at around 40 gold to do it - aim for 57%+. i run 61.6% with my weapon bonus. will increase your damage more than stacking AP.

 

AP- ap is really good, but you need to max your crit before worrying to much about it. crit is more damage overall.

 

Crit damage- this is why upgrading your acc is important. aim for 190%+ dont be that guy that equips trash to save money though. that bugs me and i always hold aggro over those types of people. its not really that expensive to upgrade. 

 

accuracy- your soulshield should be crit/accuracy based. you need 115- 120% hit to do sundered nexus. 

 

the only problem you will run into is stupid players who think ap is everything. untill they group with someone with 60 less AP that does more damage :P

 

i was upgrading something every 2 days. the weapon took about a week. they will be making moonwater dungeons drop more stuff. they already added a mob to naryu that drops bundles of lab pieces and it shows up like twice a run. 

Edited by Vau

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The new way of upgrading gear means that you want to play to the end of the old 50 story (the one that ends with Northreach Dailies being unlocked), use oathbreaker purple drop accessories and then spend a few days running solo dailies in the north and a bit of level 45 6Ms to catch up on your weapon. The accessories I will leave for after the weapon is at the end of the Oathbreaker leg.

 

Do not buy the Transformation stones. Farm Mystiwoods and make them. Right now levelling a craft takes no time at all, so bring up an alt to level 60, buy a few stucks of logs (cheap) and you will be churning out MTS in no time. If you want to reduce costs further, farm Brightstone ruins for tears and recipe with a partner on a share agreement. I know it is boring as hells, as I do it 5-6 x a day myself, but what can you do.

 

So, in conclusion, my advice to a new player will be:

 

1. Develop Soul Warden and a Merry potter to level 3 crafting 

2. Finish story to the point that it tells you to go to Bamboo village. Put Oathbreaker drops on, upgrade your weapon to true profane. 

3. Run Brightsone ruins with a trustworthy partner for Moontears and Technique, alternatively buy MTS (I did Oathbreaker path and I bought some MTS on my first character and it was 6 gold back than, not 4 or 5)

4. Run solo dailies in the North from the Monastery onward to Northreach (all doable, done it all with OB accessories and True Profane)

5. Run Mistywoods dailies and try coming for a not very populated capture and accumulating 25 pp on the SSP when your AP is about 400 

6. Buy Nighshade essences to get BSH soulshield from the wheel

7. Run East Fleet and BSH after taking respective dailies, to unlock Naryu Labirinth

8. Run Naryu Labirinth and enhance the soulshield from it with the un-needed BSH for more crit.

9. Finish the story and get a Twisted ruin ss slivers.

10. Do a solo run for all the ring-earring-necklace upgrade bits and pieces

 

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I don't need to add much about gearing and all since I'm pretty sure others got it covered already. Instead I'll focus on the crafting guild for money.

 

I see people saying go for Merry Potter and Soul Warden. 

 

My suggestion: if your seriously new I'd go for this...

Crafting Guide: Merry Potter / Radiant Ring ( sparkling Pentagonal Diamond pouch)

Gather Guild: Tree huggers / Stone cutter

 

The reason why I said to go for this is because to make MTS you need premium tempered refiners which you get from merry potter BUT you need the recipe for it from blightstone (rare drop) or buy from market NA (44g atm). Eitherway.. if your new, you probably wouldnt be able to make those but with radiant ring even though it may not seem a lot of gold.. you'll have some "pocket change" while your lvling rather than waiting at the end with mts. Also with the sf lvling hype.. those pouches goes for 7g+ right now so I'd jump it and if you feel lucky you can try opening hoping to get 25ap gem out of it which is 30g. (NA)

 

You can still have soul warden but instead make a second character and lvl it to 16 for soul warden + merry potter on it.

As for radiant ring.. if your at cinderland.. get the granite gathering unlock right away.

 

Again.. this crafting suggestion is good for beginners who are still getting a hang of things/ pocket change. It's also quite inexpensive and doable for new players to make and with the sudden price rise because of people making sf it's a good time to make and sell em. Or gamble if you want/need a 25ap gem.

Edited by HungryTaro
Sleepy

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