Alilah

New Requirements for Hongmoon Skills.

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Alilah   

What even...what is this shit? Like honestly, what?

 

blsiBrP.jpg

 

HM Rumblebees existed before Sundered Nexus came out, and this is an ALT. This character will likely never have the required AP needed to do Sundered Nexus. And even if it does, why does all of this bullshit have to be a prerequisite to learn Rumblebees? It can be learned at level 45+, right? I don't understand why this is a requirement. 

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Alilah   
Just now, KlausFlouride said:

It is widely known this game is not alt friendly.

I understand not alt friendly, but this is just downright asinine. This should not be a thing. 

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This is on my main, a BM. It wasn't there prior to this new release. I was almost done then. Now that I am, I checked it before going for my HM skill when I discovered that I have to do Edo's new dungeon and hit his monster bot 10 times. I was floored. I can't even attempt to do that dungeon until I'm over 500 AP (prereq by everyone one in the cross server) and HM6 minimum (I'm at HM5 now). They just add more and more requirements to keep people in place based on these new requirements. It is mind boggling.

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What I wished is that they gave us a week or so heads up on the change instead of ninja changing the achivement without notice. These is an important change! It was a a big slap to the face when my necro run reset back to 0 because it wasn't 10/10. Ugh, I really wanted the skill on my alt BM... *sighs*

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Grimoir   

it is well known they always update things to match the new content. This includes achievements / guild crafting  etc.

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Game is infested with bots,
Players use speed hack in SS plains,
There's a great ping issue in cross server dungeons and arena,
FPS drops are unbelieveable, memory leak is inevitable,
Constant dcs and login server failure 2 times in 3 days,
New events are uninteresting,
Players either get bored or can't catch up with updates and quit,


Yet you cry about rumblebees... It's Scummoner, use another irritating skill instead for god's sake.

Edited by InstantDeath

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15 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

it is well known they always update things to match the new content. This includes achievements / guild crafting  etc.

Yes but NCWest cannot be so ignorant as to assume that everyone one of their player base is aware that what was the original achievement requirements will become different at a later date. 

 

Their communication on things in regards to this game has never been acceptable. And no, it'a not unreasonable for anyone to assume what's written on their screens is what is and that's final.

 

someone mentioned giving players a heads up and that's not unreasonable either.

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Grimoir   
1 minute ago, Squirrelzzzzz said:

Yes but NCWest cannot be so ignorant as to assume that everyone one of their player base is aware that what was the original achievement requirements will become different at a later date. 

 

Their communication on things in regards to this game has never been acceptable. And no, it'a not unreasonable for anyone to assume what's written on their screens is what is and that's final.

 

someone mentioned giving players a heads up and that's not unreasonable either.

A heads up on such a thing will never happen, its part of the patch notes where they do minor updates on stuff. This is the only way they can somewhat "force" players to actually progress in the game. i do get the frustration but in all honesty how many months time was there to complete these and yet ppl still havent because they felt too lazy for it and now they shout because the difficulty level increased with the new content.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

A heads up on such a thing will never happen, its part of the patch notes where they do minor updates on stuff. This is the only way they can somewhat "force" players to actually progress in the game. i do get the frustration but in all honesty how many months time was there to complete these and yet ppl still havent because they felt too lazy for it and now they shout because the difficulty level increased with the new content.

 

 

i must have missed that in the patch notes. However they do come out quite close to maintenance and in my timezone it doesn't always matter if I see them or not because I'm either at work or asleep so there's not much I can do about it with a few hours heads up. I'm also one of those players who only just managed to do Necro without getting kicked out for my AP so not lazy just unlucky.

 

oh well. Shit happens. :D

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Lucien   
33 minutes ago, InstantDeath said:

Game is infested with bots,
Players use speed hack in SS plains,
There's a great ping issue in cross server dungeons and arena,
FPS drops are unbelieveable, memory leak is inevitable,
Constant dcs and login server failure 2 times in 3 days,
New events are uninteresting,
Players either get bored or can't catch up with updates and quit,


Yet you cry about rumblebees... It's Scummoner, use another irritating skill instead for god's sake.

I believe that this isn't only about rumblebees and summoner, it's all about the HM vol. 2 skill. It wasn't in their patch notes about the changes so they didn't anticipated it, until they bought/got the book, did the *cricket*ing long quest to unlock it, then suddenly at the last part, the other achievement's requirement to finish was altered. Of course anyone would be frustrated, I bet even you will when it happened to you.

 

The HM is useful either, just unlocked mine yesterday on my WL and I'm pretty content about it, just that I've finished the achievement before it was changed so I didn't have a problem like some others did. My WL have 550 AP and I could out DPS some 600+ AP players because I could use Dragon Helix twice each Wingstorm's release. In other words, HM skills are also important, and no matter how you complain about bots and other matters you mentioned above, nothing much will changed because people were already complaining about it since release.

 

25 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

A heads up on such a thing will never happen, its part of the patch notes where they do minor updates on stuff. This is the only way they can somewhat "force" players to actually progress in the game. i do get the frustration but in all honesty how many months time was there to complete these and yet ppl still havent because they felt too lazy for it and now they shout because the difficulty level increased with the new content.

 

 

Yet, Korean players weren't forced nor pressured like that, because their changes/big updates weren't month/week intervals. I don't know why you can say "lazy", like if you knew what's going on to the person behind the PC. What if they're busy in real life with much more important matters and barely plays?

Edited by Lucien

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31 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

A heads up on such a thing will never happen, its part of the patch notes where they do minor updates on stuff. This is the only way they can somewhat "force" players to actually progress in the game. i do get the frustration but in all honesty how many months time was there to complete these and yet ppl still havent because they felt too lazy for it and now they shout because the difficulty level increased with the new content.

 

 

Some people ARE actually new to the game or might have been lvling an alt. My alt BM for example literally just became lvl 50 a few days (1-3) before the change and was working on the necro run but was oblivious to the changes that was gonna happen so i thought i had time and went and did some irl respondsibility first. so Is that being lazy? No it isn't. 

 

If they actually want to "force" people into getting their lazy ass off and start doing the achivement, then they could have told them - "necro is being changed into nexus, do your necro now so you could lock it". Just like how they did with the pirate/siren path. I mean really, how hard is it to make a simple post or goggle doc about the changes thats happening? They can't expect player to know what the hell is going on, especially with how fast the content is being thrown at our faces. With it written atleast they have a liable reason to say say "we have told you about it ahead of time in our patch/doc notes. If you have missed it, I'm sorry but we have after all.. told you ahead of time." With that it be the players fault instead of theirs since they have actually WRITTEN it.

 

 Even more this isn't just a "minor" change since it literally reset my necro hit run. They didn't even mention it in stream! Really, it feels like we're expected to know what's in every content of the patch and fend for ourselves to figure out what changed.

Edited by HungryTaro
Typo

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Grimoir   

@Lucien

 

Korea also had the game out for years so do not use them as comparison and if the player barely plays, what difference does it make ? if he couldnt do it then he wont do it now either.

 

@HungryTaro

 

Since its an alt it shouldnt really matter all that much, plus if you had so much time to level it to 50, you have enough time to do the proper dungeons now to get it unlocked. In the terms you agree upon logging in states they do not even need to tell you what they are changing with maintenance.

 

 

And a general note: if you really are being kicked because of low AP, well do something about it? there are so many ways to raise your AP by just upgrading bracelet / AP gem / accessories which are actually cheap to upgrade / weapon. And dont start saying "its to expensive to upgrade", you made an alt which means you can earn double the gold from dailies since seems like you have a lot of time (assuming cause you know, you made an alt all to 50HM3). If you still get kicked find some friends or make your own runs, as its really not that hard to do Nexus with 520 AP even.

 

I see more and more players complaining about actually silly stuff, and they rather complain than actually do something about it, i mean no one will hold your hand through everything and carry you on arms.

 

I dont mean this in a rude or offensive way but it is what it is.

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Same crap here

My mains an assassin and a week before the change i got my skill to drop.

And since I dont play 4h+ a day I thought well  with my barely 450AP thought I had time and was getting there slowly about to do necro and yeti if High lvls dont instant leave etc.  Didnt try early cause reasons and didnt want to be a burden with lower dps.

And then this...seriously...

I love the game ( even with the lags, hacks, toxic people, pvp ganking part and stupid crafting system ) but Im about to leave the game with these stupid changes that come out of nowhere and inability of NC to take ANY responsibility whatsoever for ANYTHING.

Saw the last Q&A and had to turn it off...got tired of excuses and more excuses.

 

A game should be FUN!!!!!!!!! not irritating the! out of people and still not fixing things.

No wonder Im seeing less and less players, all my friends left alrdy :(

 

Same with green dungeons.....reason "it was getting cluttered" in Q&A.....seriously  was it that hard to make another tab so you could still choose the green dungeons???? and many more   sigh  guess Im out...getting pissed again.

 

 

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Huuxera   

@Grimoir

Wait I don't understand something, please explain. "  if you had so much time to level it to 50, you have enough time to do the proper dungeons now "  Imagine yourself with having like 4 hours of free time each day. No matter how many characters you have, that 4 hours will remain 4 hours. If you have two characters, that won't increase to 8 hours.... So saying "you have enough time" doesn't make any sense. Leveling an alt means you take away time from your main.

 

My story is the following: I've always struggled with trying to earn money. I'm a busy housewife with barely enough free time. I have two mains which I gear at the same time to the same level. I cried, I literally cried at times because if was so cricketing hard to make money in this game. It made me stressed. I felt my clan people/friends are going to leave me behind. I had no other choice but to sell NCoin to make the first step towards cricketing 400 AP. After that, I could finally slowly SLOWLY go up the hill towards NOT getting kicked out of raids. I slowly got good enough to have around 50g on my characters. Yes, 50g. I assume it's ridiculous but to me it's a lot because it's not easy to get enough with my free time. Yes, I have two characters with 502 AP that would be good enough to run sh*t with. But my free time won't multiply with my number of alts. Nowadays I only have time to do misty woods/bulmu (yeah there are still losers who do misty, even though people in faction chat laugh at them saying why do they even care about lvl45 content. I do care cause that's what drains my time the least.) and maybe 1-2 runs of endgame purples. If lucky, a daily challenge. 

 

Long story short, don't give me the " dont start saying "its to expensive to upgrade" "bullshit, you have no idea about other players' lives, you have no idea how much free time they have. I don't care how much you have and how are you able to manage it, for ME and for others around it's just not enough, it's not easy to keep up with things. Also, just because some people are fine with having only 1 single character or maybe two, shouldn't expect everyone's playstyle will be the same. Your opinion is not an ultimate truth you can just pull on everyone. Instead of reading the replies and saying "oh I see, other people have struggles, well I feel sorry for them", you just go around being high-and-mighty, practically insulting them about their choice of having alts and believing you actually do know how much time they're able to spend on playing/upgrading.

 

Most of my clan members quit/take a break from BnS because the upgrading was so stressful. Guess that tells enough. I'm still sad about it.

 

Someone said "  another alt unfriendly utility ". Apparently, alt-unfriendly community as well. 

Edited by Huuxera

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Ken31   
2 hours ago, Grimoir said:

if he couldnt do it then he wont do it now either

How can you even so sure if a person will do it or not? You talk like you know everything, are we playing "I'm psychic" now? Of course people will do it when they "HAVE" the time, and if they knew the changed then they might have done it on their free time, simple as that.

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@Grimoir Just because it's an alt the "it doesn't matter all that much " doesnt apply because you or anyone else doesnt even know if I have decided to make this my Main instead. How in the hell can you even apply alt = a lot of free time, more than 50% of the time, alt doesnt mean people has a lot of free time. Also with all the content rush being tossed into our face + mushroom event + trying to lock your weapons to siren or pirate.. you don't have a lot of breather to always properly do things. Well in my case I was actually gone half of those time since I recently moved and had school (finals) so I basically tried to do what I can in my time frame. But I was still rushing to lock my weapon (alt) to pirate and then had a bit of break to properly breathe first then continue on leveling,  properly gearing such as ss/ learning my class. I actually like to carry my own weight since I don't wanna drag people down or atleast be proper enough to carry someone else weight/support as well. 

 

You speak of doing things properly ie: dungeon to unlock, but I don't think you completely took into account the times + the rushes and the events that has been happening. Don't forget to take the new players into account; who ARE still learning, who ARE trying to catch up to us and maybe they've  been gathering/upgrading before they could run necro +etc dungeons first, thinking they'll have the chance to get their skill achivement because again, were all oblivious to the "necro to nexus" change. 

 

Anyway, yeh I'm frustrated and get that "maybe" you also "understand" BUT my whole point of my last reply was me disagreeing with you when you called us lazy + thinking this is somewhat the only way for us to "progress" when all it does is make players frustrated and even more burned out. People aren't asking to have their hands held, or atleast I'm not but in all honestly.. how hard is it to tell the players the thing that are being changed? Seriously how long will it take them to make a simple patch note document about it because these are pet important. Also don't tell me about the "terms" "they don't have to tell us anything" that would have been fine if we weren't getting 4 years of contents mushed into 4 to 5 months/weeks. I really don't get how asking for a simple notice/patch document on these changes to be having us being carried or having our held a lot, you basically still do things your own but atleast people would know wtf is going on instead of being frustrated about the ninja changes. Sometimes I also wonder if they even know wtf they're tossing to us, considering in one of the stream, one of them didn't even know about the green dungeon removal change. So tell me, is that a silly complaint? Having all these changes without us realizing, even more when it happens more than once ofc they'll be pissed.

 

Also about your "general note"..... it...makes my eye twitch in annoyence..... because i hope this isn't intended for me since I'm the one who mentioned "alt" but the one who mentioned about being kicked from the pt/ap is squirrelzzz though said "oh. well."

 I don't have a problem making money/gearing now but don't assume it will be the same to everyone opposed to... I dunno? Opposed to me or you because everyone has diff speed in making money/lvling /learning. Anyway, it may not be a problem for me and I'm sure my BM can do nexus anyway but I'm mostly concerned about the other players and new players opposed to just myself. Because as far as I can tell, it feels like people are being slapped with all these. 

 

I'm repeating myself but again... how the fff is it hard to get a note/doc on these type of changes! 

 

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Grimoir   

@Huuxera

 

Actually i have barely 4h play time during the week, i have more time during weekends only. So... its not like i am a no-lifer, i know what i am talking about. I barely make my dailies but guess what, i managed to gear up all the way i am now, its not difficult, it just needs you to be smart at what you do and where, I admit i spent some ncoin but really not that much, i am struggling with mats to progress further but its managable.

 

that being said i know for myself i dont have too much play time, so i know by capabilities and know i rather invest the time into  my main rather than leveling alts cause if you struggle with gold, making alts will just make you struggle more.

 

As much as i know there are players who just like making alts, they have to realize this game is not alt friendly at all, honestly you should set your priorities. I only level my alts in the weekend when i have 1-2 more hours spare.

 

And i do not intend to be rude but thats really how the reality is. the time you spend on alts would made you more gold if you did more dailies on your main. (btw i also do misty woods still cause always extra soulstones).

 

And once more i aint insulting anyone who has multiple characters because i like to have it too, the thing is I realize i cant pull it off and sorry but priorities have to be set. I am better off in the long run in gearing 1 main and farming gold which in the long run will benefit much more.

 

As you see i know what i am talking about.

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Huuxera   
3 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

they have to realize this game is not alt friendly at all, honestly you should set your priorities

It would be NC's responsibility to make a game attractive to new players/alts. Isn't it a game's purpose to make it playable as long as they can? Instead, it feels like they're trying to milk off as much money as they can off of the current player base before they completely ruin the game with their way of managing it.

5 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

the time you spend on alts would made you more gold if you did more dailies on your main

It's the same thing as I said. Of course it's easier if people only have 1 character to manage. But guess what, I do like my alts... Many people love their alts... So instead of concentrating on one single character only, I somehow try to manage my times between them. It's the same in every game. Why is BnS the only exception where I would be "forced" to make a "smart" decision and not level any alts when I do love having alts. It shouldn't be me having to limit myself into having only 1 character. Wouldn't it make more sense for NCsoft too to encourage alts (=longer playtime=more money earning chances)? I honestly don't understand their way of thinking.

9 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

As you see i know what i am talking about.

I still have to disagree with that, BnS has quite a few thousand players, your way of thinking won't automatically apply for all of us, since we all have different stories. I appreciate your reply though.

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Parallel   

The OP is 100% correct. This change is insane. Changing an achievement requirements months after it is introduced is absurd. Achievements need to be fixed targets that show what a player has achieved. They are intended to be goal players can work towards. Changing the requirements after the fact is just like changing the goal posts and ripping away their work towards that goal.

 

Not to mention unlocking hongmoon skills is already a confusing PITA already. All this change does is make it much harder for new players to catch up which is the opposite of what they should be doing.

 

Note: I already unlocked this skill on my main so this change doesn't affect me, yet I still think it is stupid.

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4 hours ago, InstantDeath said:

Yet you cry about rumblebees... It's Scummoner, use another irritating skill instead for god's sake.

It is not just a Summoner. This is a pre-requisite for any character's HM skill. I had two characters in BnS, one at 50/HM6, another - at 50/HM1 and I have never unlocked HM skills because it is so hard and convoluted. At the time I've left the game a few days back, I had enough resources and experience to keep advancing one character. But I did not want to either invest in my most advanced one (my Summoner) due to the upcoming nerf, nor I wanted to start the accessories from scratch on my alt. If we had alt-friendly ways, I'd just move the accessories/mats to my alt, and happily keep playing till 22nd when I could have tried a third class.

 

In respect to alts, maybe there are players that can take a look at class description and immediately 'get it' which character they want to play, but I cannot make this choice without playing a class.

 

Class rebalancing, for example the upcoming one that eliminates all advantages that made the Summoner the entry-level class, will likely either push you to seek the HM skill that was not previously necessary, or re-roll.

 

New class being introduced is also going to be conducive to making an alt or switching a main.

 

It is a normal MMO practice to alt. To try classes, to increase earnings, to deal with the daily and weekly resets in some games, to dodge the nerfs bat cycles, and to simply introduce a variability in the play-style.

 

The thing is, in the games where alting is easily achieved, the players with one player = one character thrive just fine.

 

But one player = one character model that NCSoft pushes so much is too limiting and really crushes the enjoyment of a large player base segment that is used to having alts and playing whciever character they chose, knowing that it all adds up in the end to advance their account.

 

It's too bad that NC Soft doesn't get it. Until they do 'get it' I am not reinstalling the game. It's that simple. I can deal with the rest of the nonsense that BnS has, but I strongly want to play on my account, not on one and only character.

 

 

Edited by DomiSotto

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Huuxera   
2 minutes ago, Parallel said:

This change is insane.

Not to mention the skill is lvl 45.... and Nexus is recommended lvl 50 HM6+... Insane indeed.

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LilMsQT   

Well I can't even get it on my main. I look it up, it says do this, do that. I strive to do this along with my DEs and balance it all out with the 3 hrs I have a day. Then I'm at 90% to achieving it and its gone! I am reeling, I worked so hard, I was soo close. It said this is what I needed to do and then to yank the rug from under me and take it away 0.o wtf.

Same with where and how you get the books...they keep moving the bar....I cant even get just volume 1....they have two and three now, so why keep changing it when there is newer stuff to get

Edited by LilMsQT

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@Grimoir Actually, it's also a problem for new players that are joining now or just joined. We're pretty lucky we still had the chance to go siren/pirate path  and started with 3 gem slot instead of 1 slot and the achivement thing, my main has it my bm doesnt but i could still do it but what about the new players. Compared to then and now...I feel bad for them... I mean even if they prioritized just one character some of them will probably have a shitty time. The mats they'll be using cost more and their breakthrough item is so expensive that I'm actually amazed at it. (Breakthrough weapon is probably because th lvl 50 dun are only done during daily chalang, I haven't even included how bare the lower level area as well + how the green dungeon they need is gone from f8)

 

 Maybe it will get better in the June 22 but at the same time I have doubts about it, only time will tell but as far as I can tell... all these changes, content rushes burn people out. I'm pretty sure telling people to play smart wouldn't help them all either, that's just plain rude man. Hell if what i hear next us "don't rush", well.. it only applies to some people so they might feel like they're being left behind too much /gap getting wider/ would probaby still make them frustrated.

 

I'd probably go insane if I only had 1 char as opposed to 2 or 3. *wheeze* being locked into prioritizing one char.... *shivers*  

Edited by HungryTaro
Boop typos, I'm tired.

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