Ciocolici

New player experience in Blackram Narrows

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First of all, I'm not starting this topic to blame NCSoft or something. I just want people to hear the cry of my best friend who just quit the game after some days of playing.

My main is a level 48 Sin. I recommended this game to a friend mine who played WoW with me for some good years. So I rolled a new character to level up with him an teach him what I know. He said he had an amazing experience and it really looked like he was having fun and enjoying the game. Until we got to level 20. We had to do our first instance runs to get the weapon, accesory and soul shields. This is where it went down the cliff. Our first run was awful. We got in a party with 4 level 50s. And this awful run was followed by other 14. I was thinking, if I would've been a new player I would've quit the game too after that dungeon runs experiences. In 15 runs we didn't got to hit the last boss for more than 5 times, we didn't got right click the boss more than 5 times. I swear to whatever you want me to swear. We died in a total of 9 times burned out because the 50s weren't waiting for us. The 50s were running and ignoring every mob out there, killing the bosses and going forward to the last boss, without waiting for us. You can't imagine how frustrating it was. I was so frustrated, I WAS, and I already went thru this with the other character, just that I don't remember being so awful. Don't know, I just don't remember it being so awful. Now just imagine how my friend felt. From 14 runs, we completed only 6 RUNS!!!! Why is that? They killed the last boss too soon every time. We were always left behind bidding for the items. We were left behind everywhere. Nobody cared. Nobody gave a buck about us. We were always maximum 3 ppl that were not level 50. Even if we would've get nice people that were level 50, just think about how the new player feels, his experience with the first EPIC dungeon, without getting to hit anything, not feeling rewarding, learning nothing from the dungeon. Something must be done about this stuff. On the Q&A stream they said that the fact that the level 50 players have to do the low-level dungeon is something very good for new players. It is like a system which helps 'em clear the dungeon faster. Ah, ok. If you say so. I don't know what to say anymore. I was so angry. Sorry for my bad eng..

I just... I don't know what to say anymore. IT WAS AWFUL for me, as a player which already has a high level character, think about my buddy.... and the other new players...

 

This thing must get revamped. Must be done something with ths system. Just don't let the high level guys pop in the low level dungeons with low level people. They can freakin' solo the dungeon without the cross-server thing. They are just too lazy to do so.

 

I was really hoping to play the game with this buddy of mine, but I fully understand why he left. If this would've been my first experience too, I would've left to.

 

Any thoughts?

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Just now, Eileithia said:

You should have taken him in and duo'd it with your level 48 sin.  Would have given him a chance to see some of the mechanics at least.  Or form your own party and specify a level range. like.. 20-30 only or something.  If you get 50's show up in your party, tell them what you want and if they don't agree, ask them to leave.

 

Lots of jerks in this game sadly.

I tried to..... I TRIED TO. None of them answered. They were just doing their stuff....

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You should have taken him in and duo'd it with your level 48 sin.  Would have given him a chance to see some of the mechanics at least.  Or form your own party and specify a level range. like.. 20-30 only or something.  If you get 50's show up in your party, tell them what you want and if they don't agree, ask them to leave.

 

Lots of jerks in this game sadly.

 

Also, you don't need to run that dungeon to keep going on quests. You can out-level it, and come back for your weapon.. I duo'd it with a friend at level 26 on my first toon because we didn't want to pug it. Was a lot more challenging too.

Edited by Eileithia

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JNH   

To outlevel content should not be a solution to do it, really this is sad to read that.

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Brand X   
7 minutes ago, Ciocolici said:

I tried to..... I TRIED TO. None of them answered. They were just doing their stuff....

Still could have just duo'd it with your 48 assassin.  There was never a need for you to try to get anyone else to answer.

 

Also, while I don't agree with high levels doing what they did :p  Really, if you see a lowbie on the team, kill things so they get through on that low dungeon, don't rush through it and screw them over.  I do have to say, those high levels are only showing up because it's a daily challenge.  It will be different on non daily challenge days.

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3 minutes ago, JNH said:

To outlevel content should not be a solution to do it, really this is sad to read that.

Sadly, because of how few new players there are around running that content, a lot of times it was the only option.  I'd rather out-level and run it short handed, than run it with a group of 50's who don't give a *cricket*.

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JNH   

Yeah... and according to the last streaming they don't care about new players. :-(

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Brand X   
11 minutes ago, JNH said:

Yeah... and according to the last streaming they don't care about new players. :-(

What did they say to have you say that?

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Brand X   

Just did the daily challenge on my 50/7 and wow.  Level 22 on the team, and 3 of the 50's left the team :p

 

The other 50 rushed ahead and killed us both on a fire wall, but after that, quickly cleared everything with just 3 of us and got Giant Killer today :)

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1 minute ago, Brand X said:

What did they say to have you say that?

The lack of empathy in terms of whyever do we even need the Green Dungeons for on the X-server for one.....

 

Personally, if I run a low-level dungeon via x-server for my convenience, I let the lowbies go ahead, stay back and snipe off the mobs that could overwhelm them if I see their health dropping. I'd rather spend a bit longer doing it than make things miserable for someone.

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Majka   

Unfortunately it's quite common the level 50 players don't care about low levels (in truth they don't care anyone, just a level 50 doesn't waste time bidding in low level dungeons). If you are in EU server I'll be glad to help you and your friend in case he/she will decide to come back. And if you are so unlucky to run these dungeons when they are part of daily challenge...start to pray to see the boss :D

 

Anyway I can understand your frustration during these runs but I can assure you there are also very nice people ready to help newbies so don't give up :)

 

 

 

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Brand X   
14 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

The lack of empathy in terms of whyever do we even need the Green Dungeons for on the X-server for one.....

 

Personally, if I run a low-level dungeon via x-server for my convenience, I let the lowbies go ahead, stay back and snipe off the mobs that could overwhelm them if I see their health dropping. I'd rather spend a bit longer doing it than make things miserable for someone.

That was a terrible mistake on their part :/

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Brand X   
Just now, Yetan said:

I've said this before, Blackram Narrows and Tomb of Exile shouldn't be included in the level 50 daily challenges. It is not helping lowbies, but rather ruining their experience.

 

As a low geared level 50, I could get killed by my fellow level 50s there. So I solo Blackram Narrows when I needed the Viridian Poison in the reward, and I don't queue for ToE when it's up for daily challenges. Not all high level players are inconsiderate, but it only takes one to ruin the run for the rest of the group. There are just more of them when people rushing through the daily challenges.

FFXIV makes it work so much better.

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Yetan   

I've said this before, Blackram Narrows and Tomb of Exile shouldn't be included in the level 50 daily challenges. It is not helping lowbies, but rather ruining their experience.

 

As a low geared level 50, I could get killed by my fellow level 50s there. So I solo Blackram Narrows when I needed the Viridian Poison in the reward, and I don't queue for ToE when it's up for daily challenges. Not all high level players are inconsiderate, but it only takes one to ruin the run for the rest of the group. There are just more of them when people rushing through the daily challenges.

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3 minutes ago, Brand X said:

FFXIV makes it work so much better.

I agree, what they should do in this game is if you enter a dungeon then your character level and gear should have all stats scaled down to a specific level appropriate for that level. That way you technically have the best stats possible for the highest end of the level range meant for that dungeon, but it's not enough to 1 shot everything and blow through it ignoring everything which could reasonably be a threat.

 

This feature would make sense for F8, but let people retain their level and gear quality if they enter the dungeon from the open world.

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Yetan   
15 minutes ago, Brand X said:

FFXIV makes it work so much better.

Would you mind elaborate how FF14 is doing it? I don't play that game and don't know.

 

I've thought about giving better reward to the high levels, or downscaling high level gears in low level dungeons, but each option has shortcomings.

Edited by Yetan
wrong quote

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4 minutes ago, Yetan said:

Would you mind elaborate how FF14 is doing it? I don't play that game and don't know.

 

I've thought about giving better reward to the high levels, or downscaling high level gears in low level dungeons, but each option has shortcomings.

Read what I said above.

 

To reiterate: your level and gear gets scaled down to the appropriate level range of that particular dungeon. For example: let's say Blackram Narrows was limited to a range of level 20 to 23. Anyone over level 23 and any equipment they had over that level would effectively get scaled down to level 23 max.

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A number of games use level scaling for high levels to "mentor" low level players in dungeons.. Some work, some don't..

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Yetan   
4 minutes ago, Despondent said:

To reiterate: your level and gear gets scaled down to the appropriate level range of that particular dungeon. For example: let's say Blackram Narrows was limited to a range of level 20 to 23. Anyone over level 23 and any equipment they had over that level would effectively get scaled down to level 23 max.

I see. It's downscaling. Then it needs to coupled with better worth-while rewards for high level players to join.

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2 minutes ago, Yetan said:

I see. It's downscaling. Then it needs to coupled with better worth-while rewards for high level players to join.

It already is worth it for high level players. It's part of the daily challenge.

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Yesterday I was doing Blackram Narrows on my lvl 50 BM. I was going for the 10 kills of the devourer for that 600 HP boost. I took 2 lvl 20 somethings with me. I stayed with them and we fought everything through to the end 5 times straight. I took nothing gave them everything. I was having a blast doing it. Why others must run ahead and leave the lower levels behind is beyond me. I guess selfish people don't care about the team, just themselves. Heck, someone in our faction cried out for help against Humongous or whatever that massive monster plog is called and I came to helped them complete it. Just seemed like the right thing to do.

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11 minutes ago, DamnedYankee said:

Yesterday I was doing Blackram Narrows on my lvl 50 BM. I was going for the 10 kills of the devourer for that 600 HP boost. I took 2 lvl 20 somethings with me. I stayed with them and we fought everything through to the end 5 times straight. I took nothing gave them everything. I was having a blast doing it. Why others must run ahead and leave the lower levels behind is beyond me. I guess selfish people don't care about the team, just themselves. Heck, someone in our faction cried out for help against Humongous or whatever that massive monster plog is called and I came to helped them complete it. Just seemed like the right thing to do.

You have my respects! :)

21 minutes ago, Despondent said:

Read what I said above.

 

To reiterate: your level and gear gets scaled down to the appropriate level range of that particular dungeon. For example: let's say Blackram Narrows was limited to a range of level 20 to 23. Anyone over level 23 and any equipment they had over that level would effectively get scaled down to level 23 max.

Exactly. That's the best way to fix this thing imo.

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I feel your pain here. It must be a personality thing because I am always inclined to help others. Yesterday blakram supply chain was in daily. I queued and all were lvl 50s hm 8+ except for 1 lvl 46. Everyone skips mobs here, it's essential. I kinda hanged behind with the 46, although didn't know if the player is reroll or new player. I think the person should announce if they are new or not(but that's besides the point).

The lvl 46 died 2 times and I would run back and rez, then the 3rd time I just told the other 4 people to wait cause no one else seemed to care. Luckily they waited at the boss for us, cause the could of been douchebags and killed poh anyway and made us both miss quest. 

 

My advice tho is not to que for these dungeons when they are on daily challenges because u will always have these people. Seems like the bns among community is majority toxic and I have almost quit a few times because of it.

 

Also another toxic experience I had doing cold storage. A guy advertised for 500+ cold storage. I am 513ap hm5 FM and the guy kicked me with no warning. Wtf is that. Everyone else in grp was 550+ hm 9 and 10 and I think he kicked me cause of that. That composition was just by random coincidence and I can certainly hold my own there. There was no need to kick when I met the requirements and everyone else was godlike ap

Edited by LadyGamerluv

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7 minutes ago, LadyGamerluv said:

My advice tho is not to que for these dungeons when they are on daily challenges because u will always have these people. Seems like the bns among community is majority toxic and I have almost quit a few times because of it.

If they are not on the challenge, who is going to run them? It's a catch 22. I have seen very few people who'd up and run Naryu Labyrinth just because, and since most everyone is way past the point they need the NL soulshields or fragments... Daily Challenge it is.

 

By the way the Machismos are priced (1.7 gold), nobody runs the BSH either if it's not on the challenge.

Edited by DomiSotto

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@DomiSottoSo maybe the solution is scaling gear. Because everything is connected. People not making alts because so hard to gear (btw my FM is my reroll I was summoner main with pirate gear 2 months ago and decided to start over on more populated server and now I'm being punished it seems cause I'm hm5 on reroll).

 

Anyway people not making alts because too expensive to gear and time consuming. Then also you can't share drops between ur chars because things are not account bound-unable to trade.  So low level dungeons take forever to que and now all the green ones are off the cross-server. Now true NEW players are going to quit and also having it on daily and seeing toxic 50s will make them quit. Either way they are screwed. Ncsoft please come up with good solution.

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