Heavens Mandate improvement Suggestion

[Ebonyamv]

Hello there guys.
In my personal opinion the Heavens mandate system could be really improved. People get harassed when you aren't fast enough to donate the ivory dragon scale and you actually get reported for bidding on the item then. In my opinion this is not really okay. Running the dungeon and being too slow for turning in the scale shouldn't be a reason to get reported and harassed when You actually want to get some loot there.

So here comes my suggestion to improve the dynamics of this dungeon:

- Instead of that scale why not make every single player pay 50s-1g for the entry. So this matter would be equally distributed between the party members and the harrassment and cursing at people who actually bid at loot then would stop.

This is propably a better solution for the current dungeon design. Please think about it.

Have a nice day!

[Dlacik]

The point of ivory dragon scale isn`t just some random entry fee. It is there to make ppl run zaiwei ruins to do heaven`s mandate. It would be better to reduce the number of parts needed for ivory dragon scale combination down to 3 from 10 and make everyone use their own ivory dragon scale to participate in heaven`s mandate dung.

[SaveTheQueen]

I've personally never done a pug run of Heaven's Mandate here in NA/EU, but in most Asian servers it's generally on the party lead to donate the ivory dragonscale and the loot at the end is entitled to the person who used the dragonscale. Kind of like an unwritten dungeon etiquette, but I wouldn't expect people to follow stuff like that here which is why I wouldn't run this dungeon in a pug. Try to find a group of friend or clan mates to run with u so u can all agree on how to split the loot on without any grief.

[Majka]

5 minutes ago, Dlacik said:

The point of ivory dragon scale isn`t just some random entry fee. It is there to make ppl run zaiwei ruins to do heaven`s mandate. It would be better to reduce the number of parts needed for ivory dragon scale combination down to 3 from 10 and make everyone use their own ivory dragon scale to participate in heaven`s mandate dung.

Actually it's not a good solution...what will it happen if someone in the party hasn't item as you cannot kick members? Besides the item check can't be lobby side as you can have it in the vault and withdraw it once at entrance.

 

I guess the "best" solution is to run it with trusted friends and in rotation everyone use a scale.

[Dlacik]

22 minutes ago, Majka said:

Actually it's not a good solution...what will it happen if someone in the party hasn't item as you cannot kick members? Besides the item check can't be lobby side as you can have it in the vault and withdraw it once at entrance.

 

I guess the "best" solution is to run it with trusted friends and in rotation everyone use a scale.

Well, that`s not a solution because many ppl already do it that way and there will always be ppl runing it with LFG.

There can be lobby side check, ppl would get used to it and they will bring the scale to the lobby. There already is similar check for daily dungeons. You can have reset stone in vault/invetory but you can`t queue for that dungeon unless you reset it before entering lobby.

 

Altough I think none of these idea would be implemented because NCWest probably can`t make these kind of changes and Team Bloodlust wouldn`t see them as neccessary.

[Majka]

3 minutes ago, Dlacik said:

Well, that`s not a solution because many ppl already do it that way and there will always be ppl runing it with LFG.

Because of that I prefer to run it with friends, and average geared players can 4 men it without problems. The worst thing is when not even party recruiter has scale. Unfortunately no algorithm can provide brain to brainless people.

 

Anyway I guess it's like Vipercap (but never tried)...until the door isn't open it's not counted like done, so not a big problem if all party is stucked at teleport...just a bit stupid :D

[Dlacik]

I think you can leave until the boss dies without geting locked.

[Shadovvv]

People get frustrated over Mandate and Cold Storage bids is because they poured their blood, sweat, and tears into getting the key into accessing the dungeon. It's only fair that they get rightfully compensated (tiny bits of silver barely make up the cost of the dungeon key). This is all just a community problem with NA's infamous toxicity and mentality.

 

Changing the entry to gold would make people run Zaiwei Ruins less (and its pretty much deserted in some servers), and making it require everyone to have a key would open up for further trolling, e.g. people refusing to use their keys and not leaving.

 

It'll to be fun to watch people scrambling for Ebondrake Citadel's requirements: an Assassin or Summoner + two non-Assassin/Summoner but can't be a Warlock, the entire party having a brain.

[JoannaRamira]

So i used my scale.  I play with 4 friends.  because it's their first run gotta recruit 2 more.  1 FM came.. He asked if that dungeon etiquette applies. I say yes.. my friend asked what's the dg etiquette.. i explained.  They're fine with it along with a KFM and a BM.
 I only need the stingers.

 

The fight begin.. we pulled it through.. then... the bid war.. the FM bid for the stingers, forgetting that he's the one asked about the unspoken rules.. then went poof. Leaving me and my party speechless.
 

[Ragerbro]

8 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

People get frustrated over Mandate and Cold Storage bids is because they poured their blood, sweat, and tears into getting the key into accessing the dungeon.

Oh please, spare me.  You can get an ivory scale in 1 full run of Zaiwei Ruins.  And why are you including Cold Storage in this?  There is no entry fee other than for Kaari Lord and I have never seen anyone grovel over rewards there.

 

Basically I see it like this.  Zaiwei Ruins gives good rewards, in terms of daily exp and frozen stingers from bosses.  Scale fragments are a byproduct of these rewards, and though required to enter Heaven's Mandate, Ivory Scale should have no bearing on who claims the HM boss loot.

 

To the OP, the bid system and Ivory Scale system are working as intended.  If someone is reporting you for bidding on items because "they used a scale and claimed them", they are wasting their time.  You have nothing to worry about.

[spongemike]

On 2016-06-10 at 5:41 AM, SaveTheQueen said:

I've personally never done a pug run of Heaven's Mandate here in NA/EU, but in most Asian servers it's generally on the party lead to donate the ivory dragonscale and the loot at the end is entitled to the person who used the dragonscale. Kind of like an unwritten dungeon etiquette, but I wouldn't expect people to follow stuff like that here which is why I wouldn't run this dungeon in a pug. Try to find a group of friend or clan mates to run with u so u can all agree on how to split the loot on without any grief.

So far I have 4 of the stones sitting around. I don't mind using them but I do want to make sure there are no bots of afk in the group first because it would be a waste if we have 2 afk 1 bot pretty much the run is ruin. Is nice to have the stingers in the end. So far when I use my stone I say 90% of the time I get the stingers. Funny thing is is usually the other party members that pointed this out and ask everyone not to bid. One time this guy try to bid against me and all the party members keep complaining lol. So I think people here isn't too bad but honestly if they do bid and really wanted I wouldn't be too upset. Is just a game.

[YamiKokennin]

My group usually points out who get stinger and protect the person who donated the scale. There was only 1 time when a db bid on the sting and everyone literally yelled at him and well, someone else in my party did the unthinkable -- outbid the other guy and send the stinger to the rightful owner.

[spongemike]

3 hours ago, YamiKokennin said:

My group usually points out who get stinger and protect the person who donated the scale. There was only 1 time when a db bid on the sting and everyone literally yelled at him and well, someone else in my party did the unthinkable -- outbid the other guy and send the stinger to the rightful owner.

Happen my group too. Funny enough looking at Zaiwei Ruins is literally empty most of the time. I think there are only active people for a few hours during the day and that's it. A lot of the time you see AFK people standing not doing anything. As soon as the boss spawn rush which sucks.

[Tsuchiryu]

On 11/06/2016 at 2:18 PM, Ragerbro said:

 Ivory Scale should have no bearing on who claims the HM boss loot.

And here we have the mentality of asshats who don't follow the 'used Scale, got dibs on Stinger' guideline.

 

People like you suck so much.

23 hours ago, spongemike said:

Funny enough looking at Zaiwei Ruins is literally empty most of the time. I think there are only active people for a few hours during the day and that's it. A lot of the time you see AFK people standing not doing anything. As soon as the boss spawn rush which sucks.

Also asshatery plus laziness. People AFKing won't get Tarakhan to spawn any faster, especially because protecting Han Muki near House of Pleasures is a *cricket* to do with too few people helping.

On 13/06/2016 at 1:48 PM, YamiKokennin said:

My group usually points out who get stinger and protect the person who donated the scale. There was only 1 time when a db bid on the sting and everyone literally yelled at him and well, someone else in my party did the unthinkable -- outbid the other guy and send the stinger to the rightful owner.

Congrats. NOT asshatery. I should begin to do that myself. It's only fair if it means we can actually enforce the guideline that way, because none of the Heaven's Mandate PUGs I've been in so far followed it. I wouldn't even mind losing some gold in the bid if that would mean the Stinger going to the rightful owner.

[Ebonyamv]

^Exactly this is why I'm for the entry fee, scales go for 3 gold. those 3 gold doesn't justify a 16x3gold stinger drop for free in my opinion. this is why i'm for a gold requirment or a scale requirement for EVERYONE

So that stuff with "stingers go to X cuz scale" can stop

[Tsuchiryu]

Entry fee besides Scales is nothing but stupid. You are just making it worse that way. Players just need to stop being dicks. Entry fees will just make them keep being dicks for some rather uneeded money loss. Doesn't really solve anything. People already lose gold on bidding for Stingers, you are just making them lose MORE gold, nothing more.

 

I like the idea of outbidding the assholes and trading Stingers with who used Scale a bit more. It's at least a more surefire way for the Stingers to go the rightful owner. Entry fee as gold won't help it any.

[IIRaZeII]

What I do is just let everyone bid in HM(Heaven's Mandate) on the stinger and if a stack drops, why make the entry fee that way with scale. It's not like the Ivory Dragon Scale is exactly expensive. I know it takes time getting all 10 pieces to get 1 Ivory Dragon Scale. But for me I just let everyone bid, for to me I don't really bother with all these ideas people come up with, just because one started then everyone must do it that way. Let me just say this, just do the dungeon and enjoy whatever the dungeon gives. Have fun and let everyone enjoy whatever comes in the dungeon and let all bid. It's just plain stupid to make the entry fee, I tried it myself, and yes I had a few who bidded and didn't follow the rule with "Scale User = Your stinger". For it will never work out that way in LFP. It only works if you have clan/friends with you, never with LFP, for it is kind of rare to find people who is even willing to agree to those rules.

 

Just let everyone bid and have fun in the game instead and enjoy the dungeons. This is my opinion though we all share our own opinions and beliefs.

[Abysmal]

3 hours ago, IIRaZeII said:

What I do is just let everyone bid in HM(Heaven's Mandate) on the stinger and if a stack drops, why make the entry fee that way with scale. It's not like the Ivory Dragon Scale is exactly expensive. I know it takes time getting all 10 pieces to get 1 Ivory Dragon Scale. But for me I just let everyone bid, for to me I don't really bother with all these ideas people come up with, just because one started then everyone must do it that way. Let me just say this, just do the dungeon and enjoy whatever the dungeon gives. Have fun and let everyone enjoy whatever comes in the dungeon and let all bid. It's just plain stupid to make the entry fee, I tried it myself, and yes I had a few who bidded and didn't follow the rule with "Scale User = Your stinger". For it will never work out that way in LFP. It only works if you have clan/friends with you, never with LFP, for it is kind of rare to find people who is even willing to agree to those rules.

 

Just let everyone bid and have fun in the game instead and enjoy the dungeons. This is my opinion though we all share our own opinions and beliefs.

The problem is that rather than using the scale, you could have sold it for 2G.

This means that when you used the scale, you will be 2G poorer in net asset.

 

Quote

. those 3 gold doesn't justify a 16x3gold stinger drop for free in my opinion.

No one is claiming the 12 stinger stacks! There's usually a 1 stack of stinger in the loot (even when there's the 12 stack) so that should go to the scale user.

[Melodia]

This trust and etiquette system works in Asia but doesn't work in NA because the average anime/cutesy/loli MMO player here has the maturity equivalent to that of a spoiled toddler. Expecting random strangers to pay entry tickets for other random strangers where there's a 1% chance to even get a "thanks" is like expecting a random stranger on the street to just give you $20 for no reason.

[Grimoir]

6 hours ago, Melodia said:

This trust and etiquette system works in Asia but doesn't work in NA because the average anime/cutesy/loli MMO player here has the maturity equivalent to that of a spoiled toddler. Expecting random strangers to pay entry tickets for other random strangers where there's a 1% chance to even get a "thanks" is like expecting a random stranger on the street to just give you $20 for no reason.

^ <3

 

anyways,,,,,

 

there is a "unwritten" rule which generally players seem to follow:

 

the person which uses the scale gets 1 x stinger which usually drops. If more stacks / stingers drop then its a free bid.

[Pepperino]

I don't see why it even matters. You get ONE stinger for using a scale because chances are, no big bundle will drop. Those scales aren't even hard to come across. 

I use my scales because Zaiwei Ruins is a thing. If there are no outfit drop, honorary, or stack of stingers, bye party. One stinger isn't going to make any difference and you get enough of those feathers from just opening the dynamic quest box.

[kitcalie]

12 hours ago, Grimoir said:

^ <3

 

anyways,,,,,

 

there is a "unwritten" rule which generally players seem to follow:

 

the person which uses the scale gets 1 x stinger which usually drops. If more stacks / stingers drop then its a free bid.

All parties I join mention this before we even go into the dungeon (though generally if my guild members are on we will 2-3 man it instead). Even with it being mentioned and assuming you agree since they typed it into the recruitment some *insert curse word here* will still bid and if the person who used scale bids again they will keep at it. Lastnight we had one guy do this to me. No one else in the party had a scale/would use it. I loaded in very slowly as normal no one had used a scale. The party lead kept going "someone use scale. If you use scale you get the stinger". NO one would use it so I did when I got in. Some guy still bid it up to 2G 40s even though the party agreed that the person who used the scale got the stinger.

 

So yeah... I agree the unwritten rule doesn't work on these servers =/  Due to this I wish they would change things to where either everyone has to have a scale to enter or  the person who uses the scale will auto get something extra. 

[Rychael]

All you have to do is block the person who didn't follow the rules. You will never see them in another pug.

 

If more people did this, the greedy self serving *cricket* will soon find themselves unable to join any party.

[ander01se]

Just make it require a stinger per person and increase the loot drops and we'll get rid of the a**hats.

[DannyMayCry]

On 26/06/2016 at 9:12 PM, Rychael said:

All you have to do is block the person who didn't follow the rules. You will never see them in another pug.

 

If more people did this, the greedy self serving *cricket* will soon find themselves unable to join any party.

LOL why did I never think of that XD?