Warlock isn't great in PVE.. sadly.

[SaintPepsiCola]

Ok, so I have around 500 AP with warlock and 51% crit. I have played both builds and also got their HM book. I love the class's style and animations. I love that we are less popular. I like things like that. We have a lot of utility and people don't realize it. A summoner would know exactly how a FM can help save him but I have seen very few veterans who know how warlock brings utility outside his timelapse and soulburn. It's kinda obvious we are so underplayed and undervalued. I have been exclusively playing Dragoncall the last few days because at this point I can just spam them dragons and I love the animations. On the road to 50 I exclusively used Dragonhelix which is great for open world BUT we have such a hard time doing stuff. Everything has a cast time and if something as little as wind struck us during our casts we get long cd for no damn reason. Yes, we have CD reset mechanisms but they require standing still too; hello skill 3 or  leeching to only get CC'ed from an off screen mob before you complete your siphon animation -_-. Farming the boghide area for a breeze weapon was a nightmare for me on my WL. The mobs would CC me to hell, cancel my animations and generally wreck me. It was much easier on FM and assassin.

 

I used to use Soulburn but these days I play in group dungeons with my WL friend and he uses soulburn so I use the more selfish timelapse and spam a million dragons when Im siphoned. (They become instacast during siphoned and timelapse = no cds). I also pull aggro when I do this yes I know this means that the FMs must be bad but its hard.... its hard tanking the last twin boss of naryu labyrinth for me AND do my dragoncalls at the same time. We are so glassy and not much dps at all. If I miss my leech because some little mob just CC'ed me im done for some time. Everything requires a setup. Why do we have to be an offensive support class; can we not just be an offensive class for people who think the fire/ice mage thing is too boringly cliche? Can we have more of a constant dps or get more burst if we are gonna get CDs. We are so fragile and complex to play with less dps than summoner and fm who are so easy compared to us that its beyond me.

 

Also, the thrall seems more of a chore in the dps routine than anything. It doesn't do much outside its 2 min cds and the aura buff it gives is so short lived it might as well nt exist. He is more useful for PVP in low tier matches.

 

I'm still going to main WL because I love the class and I hope for some buffs to not just our pvp but pve too.

 

[Ganhur]

Since I do not have much experience with other class beside Warlock, I cannot compare it to other class as well as those who do. Still I'd like to argue differently.

 

Warlock is undeniably a slow casting class and one of its main drawback is its mobility. From outside look, Warlock cannot move and shoot its target like its rival range classes such as Force Master and Summoner. However that does not mean it lacks power in the dps competition.

One of the biggest mistake I've seen so far when people compare dps is that they use Agro meter, whoever got agro by definition has the highest dps. That is not and will never be the case. About 1/3 of what WL throw at its enemy generate absolutely 0 threat (their RMB). Meaning, if they spam 100 RMB (without any other skills) at a target who has been agro by another teammate, who only hit it once, the target will never bother with WL even if those 100 RMBs about to kill it. So if a WL got agro in pt where it has same AP with its teammates, you should start question whether the WL use different build, or the rest of party is just terrible.

Since I got no way of measuring WL dps but only experience with my HM10 Warlock, I shall bet you that the class is no where close to bottom tier of pve dps.

 

As for tanking, WL is a great range class for tanking. If any range class want to tank, I prefer WL who can block and snare without moving too much around and give other melee members hard time chasing the boss. Although it may lack the fancy Q/E, Warlock still have enough iframe to make the class competent. For example, Yeti's ice phase aoe, Warlock can able to dodge up to 6 aoe without any relying on SB reset, which as far as I am told, that is as much as a Blade Master can handle. The only problem in WL tanking is as mentioned above, it will have difficulties maintain agro depend on its build.

Another thing about WL's iframe, especially its SS, when I use it, I tend to SS toward enemy hit zone rather than out of it, this way it will reset my main DPS skills and I can continue throwing Wingstorm and DC/Helix at my enemy. Knowing when and where to SS can make you a very well dps WL.

[Dresmyr]

WL is definitely better at DPS than you are seeing. I play on one of the smaller servers, onmyung, and I was partied with one of our top FMs, he typically pulls aggro from our alliances KFM who has a legendary. While in lair and talus dungeon for the daily, he could not pull aggro from me until I got pulled by steel giant. we were both using the same level of gear as well, though he had more AP gems than I do. This is because warlocks get so much more damage from their HM skills. I recently got all of my HM skills and I saw since I learned how to do the HM volley rotation my damage spiked, and I was even able to clear as high as floor 43 in infinity. This build also works well when tanking, as you can often take the 0.5 seconds to block an attack, as you only really cast wingstorm.

TL;DR- WL HM skills give lots of damage.

[RavTH]

are you doing your infinite combos right?

[Dr SoulReaper]

Correction warlock is god tier at group dps single target I can agree with lack luster damage.... That being said I can pull and hold aggro from higher geared Fms and other locks for some time with little effort.... The only true weakness a warlock has is getting cced to the point of no return. And for reference my stats are roughly 184% crit damage 51.15% crit chance (almost the magical always crit marker lol) and 507 AP.... Lol

[SaintPepsiCola]

Looks like no one actually bother to read OP.

 

1) No one is talking about Warlocks DPS. 

 

Quote

are you doing your infinite combos right?

there is no infinite dragoncall combo there is only one for helix. Again, if you actually read.

 

I'm talking about how CC's cancel our stuff and put it on CD; like puny mobs in naryu and sundered nexus.. but anyway look at KR patch notes this got resolved with Leech.

[Unsheath]

Ganhur pretty much said it, especially the bit about using your backstep to reset V and 4. From my experience, sitting on 55% crit and 2k crit dmg I prefer DC over helix too since I find it more suited to my playstyle, has potentially higher dps, higher burst and mostly play with sin/kfm in party. The only real issue I read about is that yes, if you don't pay attention mobs/boss can cancel your leech by simply bumping you and that is really bad for your rotation. 

 

If you don't like having aggro, let the FM know when you distort because C+V refreshed 3 times is really top deeps if the boss isn't moved away. Also, thrall's AoE ranged stun + taunt is pretty good for beastbog (even better if you spec the pull) but it's still a pain for all classes to avoid all those stacking cc's from the gunners and that's why you should prioritize them.

 

Lastly, WL is the third most populated class after FM and SM but definitely one of the most underplayed ones. 

[Ganhur]

3 hours ago, SaintPepsiCola said:

Looks like no one actually bother to read OP.

1) No one is talking about Warlocks DPS.

I'm talking about how CC's cancel our stuff and put it on CD; like puny mobs in naryu and sundered nexus.. but anyway look at KR patch notes this got resolved with Leech.

We did, but your argument is based on your experience with WL alone so they criticised how you play not how the class generally work. Unless you have a clear way for measuring DPS and put it on a chart, comparing to other classes, then perhaps people will talk about the class more seriously and objectively.

 

As for your skills being put on cd whenever you knocked down, I did not bother because that's professionalism, not the mechanic fault. Every class lose their skills to cd if their skills got interrupted during casting, such as KFM's jump can be countered and put on whole if WL throw (X) at that KFM during middle of the jump. That said, WL is no exception compared to other class based on that. It receives higher penalty because of 2.5s casting and long cd. It is why you have to be careful of who you fighting against and maintain your distance.

 

Thrall is useful against mobs group. If you ever decide to solo Asura's bridge or the pathway to the 2nd boss, Thrall is your best friend which can vacumm the mob, stun them, and give you plenty of opportunity until the thrall or its agro expire. You can spec Obliterate for this situation and quicken the killing pace. Aura on the other hand, I never bother with it. Frankly, I never summon thrall unless its for Soulburn, TimeDistort, or mobbing.

[SaintPepsiCola]

I didn't say that WL's DPS is bad so I have no idea why you want me to compare Warlocks DPs.

 

Regarding professionalism; You'd be either delaying your DPS or slowing the whole team down if you start thinking of an opportune moment to use your leech. Primarily; there is no way in hell you can predict this when a horde of mobs are attacking you.  I'd like you to go pull a group of mobs in boghide area and record your professionalism of landing leech and dragoncalls without any cancellations. In my post I'm specifically talking about mobs cancelling our skills (not bosses; they are very easy to predict) + dragoncall playstyle. (not helix)

 

I just said; to summarise: 'he feels clunky and there is high risk of CD with not much reward' that's all. Also, around the same time of the post his leech got buffed(in KR) so the developers know/understand exactly what I'm talking about.

[Ganhur]

On 6/13/2016 at 9:58 PM, SaintPepsiCola said:

Regarding professionalism; You'd be either delaying your DPS or slowing the whole team down if you start thinking of an opportune moment to use your leech. Primarily; there is no way in hell you can predict this when a horde of mobs are attacking you.  I'd like you to go pull a group of mobs in boghide area and record your professionalism of landing leech and dragoncalls without any cancellations. In my post I'm specifically talking about mobs cancelling our skills (not bosses; they are very easy to predict) + dragoncall playstyle. (not helix)

You got the best snare skill in the game, plus AoE knockdown, also thrall vacuum.

Warlock and their thrall are extremely amazing at grounding up mobs and grunts and AoE them to death.

 

Here is what I alone do the clear the first (or 2nd) room, the one in between the first two mini boss, in Frozen Lair, which is around 9~15 mobs:

I've done this with 55k HP, 1.3k Defense, and around 500AP

1. Charge into the center of the room.

2. Use your Z then your thrall ASAP.

3. SS the moment the whole room charged at you. Thrall at this moment should be vaccuming them all.

4. Use your V (should heal up 100% in 1 hit), use your 2 and snare the whole group. Don't stay too far. If you know how "charge" skill works, you should be wise to stay within 5m (or the blue circle line of your snare), that way they will be snared until the debuffed is gone.

5. Leech > unleashe your skills > If snare goes away b4 you kill them all, use your X to make sure they stay down for another 2~3s (which is also enough for you to pull a '3' skills or dragoncall without interruption).

 

Warlock's skills are waste if you use on single target because of their large AoE and long cd. This is why I always fight group of 3~7 when going solo. So you can be sure I know exactly what I'm doing.

I don't know what or where Bogshide is but I know I can single hand any group of mob (5~9) that can hit me 20~30k HP (Sogun Lament 4man with 1.4k Defense). Whether it's dragoncall or helix, I can do it all as long as I got my thrall and its vaccum skill (also group snare, but group knock down is more important, plus you can spec Obliterate for extra stun/aoe kill)

[BSGame]

On 6/9/2016 at 6:26 AM, SaintPepsiCola said:

CC'ed from an off screen mob before you complete your siphon animation 

I absolutely hate that siphon animation. WL was introduced much later in the game. This allowed them to make a class without the mistakes they made with the original classes. Mistakes that they can no longer take back. For example, ani-cancel. Animation cancelling is important in making your character control feel responsive. However, the mistake is in allowing the dmg or effect to take place at the beginning of an animation instead of the end. When they made WL, they made sure all of the dmg/effects take place at the very end. 

 

Besides all of our spells taking effect at the end of the animation, even more annoying is:

 

- it is possible to get interrupted in such a way that the spell is considered casted (and thus activating CD) while NOT getting the effect (ie. siphon or thrall summon)

 

- siphon is on 45 secs timer and also shares the F key with Rupture. Besides the possibility of missing your siphon for other reasons, you also don't want to cast it by accident while at the same time you WANT to cast Rupture frequently.  

 

- You can't ani cancel siphon with Z (Bastion). You can move during the animation and do SS, but I don't think you can cast.

 

- the weird global CD that seem to affect abilities that don't show the CD timer on the skill.

[Bleys]

With 650+ AP  and all the books I solo hotblood and all the packs of skilled warriors and other trash at the same time.  Train your pet and farm naxun dude.  Be ready to adapt or any situation.  Warlocks are fine.

[Income]

Warlocks may not have enough utilities. But we are the best mob-clearing class.

 

Idk how are you trying to miss leech when you can just summon thrall and let it vacuum all mobs, while you keep your distance, leech and dps while you're siphoned.

 

Heck it's a cakewalk to solo a bridge in Asura 4 man.