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Snowdc

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Fire blade storm was completely wasted. Dragontongue is a seriously long cast, you could probably get up to 8 hits in blade storm without speeding it up. We need a way to ani-cancel it. Too bad it's maintenance time, I would try something. The boring point isn't even a joke, you can fall asleep while playing. Games are supposed to be fun (not that bns really is that fun).

You should try a certain but flexible rotation for lightning build, I got the impression you're just randomly pressing buttons. Also, it seems you slow down with ani-cancel at times, not sure if that is on purpose.

btw use focus recovery lunar slash for lightning build. 7 focus matters.

Didn't watch all 4 mins, too lazy to pay attention, might have missed something, blah blah sorry about that.

 

This is just a bunch of random sentences that don't necessarily go along with each other. Read it one sentence at a time.

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3 hours ago, Stormpooper said:

Fire blade storm was completely wasted. Dragontongue is a seriously long cast, you could probably get up to 8 hits in blade storm without speeding it up. We need a way to ani-cancel it. Too bad it's maintenance time, I would try something. The boring point isn't even a joke, you can fall asleep while playing. Games are supposed to be fun (not that bns really is that fun).

You should try a certain but flexible rotation for lightning build, I got the impression you're just randomly pressing buttons. Also, it seems you slow down with ani-cancel at times, not sure if that is on purpose.

btw use focus recovery lunar slash for lightning build. 7 focus matters.

Didn't watch all 4 mins, too lazy to pay attention, might have missed something, blah blah sorry about that.

 

This is just a bunch of random sentences that don't necessarily go along with each other. Read it one sentence at a time.

Thank you for the constructive criticism, with that being said let's start going over your points. You can't get 8 dragontongues into a single blade storm, the most you can get is 5, and with those 5 you want to time them so you get the most amount of tabs in. Yes, we do need a way to ani-cancel it, but tbh it's already more damage than lightning 90% of the time so it is fine. The build I use for fire is boring, but it is the highest single target damage you want, tab->dragontongue->flicker->dragontongue->tab, constant damage, no chi downtime, and during that rotation the only other skill we can really throw in there for extra damage is lightning draw, since everything else takes us away from dragontongue/tab/flicker spam. Lightning is the build I personally use 80% of the time, it is less damage, but I like it, if I'm going to spec lunar slash for chi regen, I might as well go fire build, the purpose of doing lightning is as you said "to not fall asleep", you don't have to watch all 4 minutes to get the point, and visually see the problems with each build, watch 15 seconds of each build, and you'll get that fire is constant dps uptime, and lightning has less damage, but you're doing more, you're moving more. I'm not the best bm, but in my opinion I'm not that bad either(top 30 pvp/infinitytower), I sometimes forget to use blade storm when I'm in lightning build because if I'm in lightning build, I'm probably going to be aoeing, and cc'ing a lot, like in asura, and at the end of the day if you're not soloing or duoing something as a bm, your damage is pretty insignificant, and that's not a problem as long as you're being useful through holding aggro, and etc. This was meant to maybe reach one of the millions of BMs that keeps asking for fire vs lightning, so that they could see the difference from a 700 ap bm's perspective.

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3 hours ago, DannyMayCry said:

Goddammit dude aside from that nice video, please share your ping :C

Aside from me living in a SEA country, I wouldn't wanna risk using a VPN to reduce my ping for better ani-cancelling.

I've got pretty bad ping most of the day, not aussie bad ping though. If I did have aussie ping, I don't think I would ever take off fire build lol.

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21 hours ago, Snowdc said:

You can't get 8 dragontongues into a single blade storm, the most you can get is 5

You definitely can. Throughout my tests, even if it requires the ideal situation in which your target doesn't move (so it actually helps if you're tanking and don't mind taking a direct hit), you can land at least 7 dragontongues under blade storm. The 8th one is harder, but anyway since it takes you out of your draw stance, at worst it won't trigger its CD, meaning you can switch right back into draw stance and land a consecutive 9th dragontongue. The little trick to this is obviously not to use lightning draw for the first draw stance, but either backstep (evade) or Q blindside, then begin the blade storm followed right up by the first 4 dragontongues, immediately use lightning draw (way faster than using evade or blindside), and throw in once more every dragontongue you have left. The 8th one may not land under blade storm meaning it won't benefit from bonus damages, but once more the dragontongue taking you out of draw stance doesn't trigger any CD, so depending what you used for your first stance switch, you can use the remaining skill (evade or blindside) to switch again and finally land the 9th dragontongue.

Lightning draw is the only skill that allows that many hits, using Q blindside or evade would take away from you at least one hit, meaning if it were the 7th being out of blade storm you couldn't use a consecutive 8th, losing 2 hits instead of one. A fine ping here may help landing all those hits, but since I can pull this out with the best I can get when my network allows it (~150 ms), I think many people can do it comfortably! :)

 

21 hours ago, Snowdc said:

with those 5 [dragontongues] you want to time them so you get the most amount of tabs in.

You definitely don't, that'd be a mistake (just in case, I'm not saying it with a salty intention). T3S1 lunar slash is usually only 5% stronger than the first cast of dragontongue, however the second dragontongue gets the consecutive uses bonus that gets it on par with lunar slash. Then, the third use gets double this bonus, meaning it covers the missing 5% of the first cast, making all 3 dragontongues dealing as much as if you had 3 consecutive lunar slashes. Then the 4th use comes in with the complete bonus being 10% over lunar slash, so you can forget about using it.

In addition ('cause it isn't all, yeah xD), lunar slash doesn't get any bonus damages from targets under blade storm, however dragontongue does even with the first cast, making it far stronger straight from the beginning. Remember the initial percentages (yeah, I love numbers): while lunar slash is 5% over first dragontongue, blade storm bonus pumps dragontongue up by 35%. So landing lunar slash during the dragontongue-blade storm burst is actually a heavy loss. ^^

 

21 hours ago, Snowdc said:

The build I use for fire is boring, but it is the highest single target damage you want, tab->dragontongue->flicker->dragontongue->tab

Here I can't agree with you: T3S1 flash step is simply broken since even if it's the multitarget form of the skill, all 3 casts deal 25% more damages than a full blade call or five-point strike, and even if you don't land a crit through the first cast it's only 10% weaker (a bit more actually, ~12%). Those damages are worth 3 casts of T4S3 flicker even when factoring in both the little walk back to the target & the bonus damages of flicker (actually flicker would be almost 10% more powerful). Still, the gamble is definitely worth it as a full flash step occupies 6 casts of flicker (5 casts for the quickest players I'd say, I sometimes manage to land a flicker before dragontongue is available again), with the full flash step dealing almost double damages. Remaining case would be the second flash step not dealing a crit, still it would be around 30% to 40% more damaging since this frame still allows you to land at least one flicker (since there's no walk as you're back almost where you left, if you're quick, you may even land a second flicker, raising farther those percentages).

So even in monotarget, using the multitarget flash step is a must (considering its efficiency, you can't take it out of the picture). Actually on a side note, for the fire build, you can even make a better offensive use of five-point strike: since you have a high focus recovery through dragontongue, under lightning build you can find yourself relying on 5PS for its focus recovery before its damages, meaning not using it whenever it's off CD. Under the fire build however you can use it whenever it's up, forgetting once more about the flicker bash and getting ~40% more damages from a full five-point strike. So you can make a little more interesting build for fire in which the skills you use aren't restricted to LMB/RMB/tab! :)

 

21 hours ago, Snowdc said:

if I'm going to spec lunar slash for chi regen, I might as well go fire build

Given the fact T3S1 lunar slash is usable during draw stance, deals heavy damages and recovers a lot of focus, you can hardly ignore it for the lightning build. Actually IMO it's far more necessary since it covers regularly a great part of your consumption for the lightning build.

Basically it's the same idea as making a monotarget build and still resorting to the multitarget flash step - their efficiency & utility are so overwhelming compared to the other forms of these skills that you'd use them even if it doesn't fit into the supposed behaviour of your build (here, depending on crits, lunar slash can recover up to 3 uses of T4S3 breeze and still deal more than double the damages). :)

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That was a pretty good post, I tried everything, I liked taking the damage tab, and will probably take that instead of the daze when elemental accessories for lightning come out. I liked going to Gold/Silver, and testing out the dragontongue spam over dragontongue/tab spam with Blade Storm, I might have been biased because tab hits both of them, and that's what I see, but I like the dragontongue spam(6-8) times for single target damage.  "Here I can't agree with you: T3S1 flash step is simply broken since even if it's the multitarget form of the skill, all 3 casts deal 25% more damages than a full blade call or five-point strike," That point is hard to argue because we don't have a dps meter,and  we can't really parse our damage anymore either with a 3rd party meter since last patch, so we have to go based off what we see. In fire build this is what I see when I do Tab/Dragontongue/Flicker-> 16k->15k->5k-5k->15k->(56k). With the flash step combo over 3 seconds(if they all crit) I see -> 13k->16k->19k(48k) which is pretty close in damage to just spamming tab/dragontongue, but you also have to account for the displacement of your character, and having to move back to do dps. In fire, if you're taking the damage version of five point strike which lasts for 4.5 seconds, you're doing 5k+2k+5k+2k+20k (32k), which is even less damage than 3 seconds of just dragontongue/tab spam.

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10 minutes ago, Snowdc said:

"Here I can't agree with you: T3S1 flash step is simply broken since even if it's the multitarget form of the skill, all 3 casts deal 25% more damages than a full blade call or five-point strike," That point is hard to argue because we don't have a dps meter

Well, AFAIK no add-on can be used anyway, still there's no need for one: if you check the data from BnStree (or even in-game, though damage modifiers will feel harder to deduce), you'll see that every cast amounts to a third of the full potential of 5PS/blade call. Keep in mind that a skill saying "deals X damage over Y hits" =/= "deals X damage, useable up to Y times": the first sentence means the indicated X damages are distributed throughout Y hits, whereas the second sentence means X damages are delivered per hit which can be delivered Y times. Here, flash step delivers 33% of what would a full 5PS/blade call do, but can be used up to 3 times, meaning the same damages as 5PS/B-Call.

That leaves the 25% additional damages I deduced, they simply come from the bonus due to consecutive uses, as those damages work this way (you could apply it to T4S3 flicker as well): first hit triggers nothing, second triggers one bonus, third triggers twice the bonus. Since this bonus amounts to 25% of the "original" hit, one use means nothing, two means +25% of the original hit, three means a +25% cumulated twice, in total that means +75%; so to keep it short, a third of 5PS/B-Call (the value of one cast of flash step) multiplied by three quarters (the value of the cumulative bonuses) equal a quarter of the full potential, hence flash step hitting 25% harder than 5PS/B-Call as long as all hits can land.

It's getting confusing IMO, but just looking at the values ingame, knowing how bonus damages from consecutive uses work, then making your own calculations, you would deduce the same. ^^

One little thing though which makes things more complicated, don't get easily mislead due to the RNG for both your initial damage modifiers AND from the crits - they easily falsify results since obviously, you can't compare a no-crit full-bonus flash step to a critical full-bonus flicker bash or the other way around.

 

36 minutes ago, Snowdc said:

In fire build this is what I see when I do Tab/Dragontongue/Flicker-> 16k->15k->5k-5k->15k->(56k). With the flash step combo over 3 seconds(if they all crit) I see -> 13k->16k->19k(48k) which is pretty close in damage to just spamming tab/dragontongue

It seems that way because in my eyes, you're mistaking the references: I was talking about inserting flash step within two uses of dragontongue, here you compare flash step on its own against one lunar slash, several flickers, AND both dragontongues determining our timeframe. So it doesn't apply since in both cases we're talking about using dragontongue anyway, you have faaar enough time to land flash step between two dragontongues (damn, now that would be easier to explain if I could record what I'm doing ingame, but I already am in the lowest settings and still end with screen freezes so I definitely can't).

Obviously, neither lunar slash, neither flash step will be available 100% of the time; at worst you'd be delaying one of them to the next in-between of two dragontongues, so the loss is really low. Actually, between two dragontongues, I can easily land all flash steps as well as lunar slash OR all steps and at least one flicker (two if I turn around quickly enough and the target was close to my landing position). If you have few troubles managing the movement of flash step, mind that the time you may spend turning back to face your target is perfect for landing a circular hit like lunar slash. So basically, I was comparing a frame of 6 T4S3 flickers to a frame of 3 T3S1 flash steps+1 or 2 T4S3 flickers, but 6 flickers could indeed be compared as well to 3 steps+lunar slash (I guess you could even pull out one little flicker at the end, lunar slash doesn't take long, but that kind of reference would be unreliable since lunar slash isn't permanently available). :)

Keep in mind that taking the third tier of S1 flash step is a necessity: 2nd tier may deal the same damages, but you can't change your direction immediately, and that's where you'd lose too much time for flash step to be really efficient.

 

1 hour ago, Snowdc said:

In fire, if you're taking the damage version of five point strike which lasts for 4.5 seconds, you're doing 5k+2k+5k+2k+20k (32k), which is even less damage than 3 seconds of just dragontongue/tab spam.

Eeeh, it can't possibly last that long! xD

5PS takes around 2.5s to fully land, which covers the precise timeframe between two dragontongues, meaning here again I feel like you're mistaking the references - just like flash step earlier, 5PS is compared to some flicker bashing exclusively. I don't mind delaying a little lunar slash for 5PS, since anyway I'll use lunar slash before the dragontongue ending my current frame, worst case scenario (and regarding an optimized use of ONLY lunar slash) I'd lose 0.1 or 0.2 seconds.

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