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Arena practice sparring?


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with this thread I hope to find some people to spar with.

The goal is thus sparring and explaining to each other what the other their class can do 

and how you could try to counter it and such. This way we can both improve and understand the other's class better.


After some games I am now in gold rank and I find Forcemaster (FM) to be kinda hard tbh (fun but hard). With that I mean very little room for error.

And obviously I am gonna make some error as I still lack some knowledge about what other classes can do and their cooldowns and such.

Roughly I know the other classes but there is room for sure to understand them better than I do now and also improve as a Forcemaster in general.
Sparring could help in this.


I have the most problems with the Sin class (and that 50% evade). I find it especially hard vs those where the timer runs out (and they win in dmg).

However I would welcome any class to spar with.



my forcemaster is lvl 50 HM3 (mostly from xp charms after 50 lol :P) with zero HM secret technique books.
Gold rank atm.

Anyone interested in some sparring?


Or if any FM sensei wants to teach me some of the ways of the Forcemaster, that would be welcome too? :)



I play on Europe region.


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7 hours ago, Els said:

You forgot to say on what region you play ~~

Thanks for mentioning. I forgot.
Its Europe.

I have edited it in.

7 hours ago, azraelkun said:

Fyi fm has the advantage over sin

FM doesnt have an advantage over Sin in general.

From what I heard generally the FM needs to be at a top skill lvl of play to win (make little to no error) from Sin and I am not there yet.

At other skill lvls the Sin will generally win. Nor do I have any HM secret techniques.

Anyway feel free to give advice what I can do in a battle vs a Sin that can help me win.

Apart from keeping chill up, not hitting in decoy/throw snowball in decoy for 6 sec defence lock,

aerial + bolt bash for 6 sec defence lock, trying to keep up frostorbs, try unstealthing them with 1,

iceblocking certain danger windows for me, trying to find window where sin is vulnerable to do cc+ dmg like frozen + stun

and dmg or burn + meteor shower + phantom grip.


Some extra advice on finding windows to cc and dmg them and how best to deal with the flash grenade would especially be welcome.


If you are a europe sin, maybe we can spar some.

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Sin vs FM is sin favored as long as the sin is god himself... (so i would say it´s fm favored, because nobody is yet and might not be in a long time good enough to pull it off and even if some are the majority of sins probably won´t ever be) it´s like you have to play perfectly the whole game and if you get hit by 1 tab or ss it´s instant game over almost, a lot of the time, you have to dodge almost all of them to have a chance against a good enough fms. SS especially tab is not as  big of a deal most of the time. But when you ss, you can either instantly use your 3 and stun us (witch is really hard to actually react to with woodblock) or you wait and anticipating me to woodblock, because that´s how i would counter your 3 stun and then you can snowball me and there is a good chance one of your 2 skills crit and then you get frost orbs anyway. When you have frost orbs as a fm against a sin, then you´re mostly immune to their combos, except the stars align and you don´t have just used your last escape and the other one right before that and the sin manages to get you into some kind of forever frozen, but still daze/stun combo. And ofc while doing that you also have to hope that you never get dsynced, it´s pretty tilting when you would have killed the fm, but ... no you stun him and then you´re dsynced and frozen and can´t target the fm anymore. That´s more of an eu/na specific problem though. Same thing happens when you close shave fms with frost orbs. So.. when you have frost orbs the sins gameplan will generally be... stall the game until they are gone.


The fm does not need to be topskilled to win against most sins, except you play against a really REALLY good sin. You don´t need to do a lot. Just hit them with a tab, or ss. Get frost orbs going with your 3 stun. When you crit one frost skill you can get frost orbs with your f ice skill (and they even apply if i iframe the ability). And whenever we are in stealth you hit us with impact. When we ss we can shadowslip you after, so you´ll want to either counter that with hm impact, or you want to e/q away as soon as we hit, or you can deflect it with your tab, or you can just use one of your 2 ice statue skills. You should probably still use the snowball that breaks our woodblock, even though the other tree stacks frost orbs. But the 6 seconds def block is pointless against sin, since woodblock has 8 seconds cc. You just use it to get damage going. You just need to watch out for our f daze, because we can actually use that when you´re close enough AFTER you block breaked us, but it´s a very very long annimation and it´s also obvious, because we can only use that after decoy or shadowslip. You can do whatever you want with it dodge it is fine (q/e), impact hm block is beter, Tab deflect also works. Or you´re just out of range (8m range).


Just to clarify. Yes i know, after you ss you can use your impact without wasting your 3 cooldown and stun us, because we are frozen, witch is what you should do when we are out of escapes, but whenever we still have our tab up, you should actually use your 3 stun instead, just to stack that frost orb, because it´s just THAT insanely painful for us to deal with it. And frost orbs last 30 seconds...

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I appreciate that in a match where both the Assassin and the FM have low ping, the Assassin might have a bad time, but if I just SS as soon as I get stunned you can hit Tab (Turning Leaf switch) as soon as I start moving. The projectile will reach me just as I finish the backdash, switch me and stun me, and I'll be hit for a huge combo unless I have Tab daze.

Even if you don't Tab switch me, if I try something so stupid as using Glacial Beam (3) right after SS, it will always be blocked/dodged.

Snowball is right out too, because to use it I must be *100%* sure I am attacking into an enemy block. It does not disable enemy defense unless it hits into a block. It is *not* Venom Swarm, which disables blocks just by tagging the target. To not have Decoy disabled by snowball, you can just let Snowball harmlessly hit you while your hands are down, SS, or use F (Swiftstep), or Lightning Stride -> 3 -> Web (or tech chase with Tab switch if they F Retreat).


You don't actually have to start comboing a stunned FM straight away btw. You can make it look like you'll start a combo, then just bait out their Tab. To not get hit by it, use Shadow Dance or Shunpo to dodge and then do Lightning Sweep (4) or Spinal Tap after their escape animation is finished.


Impact is an ability that's spammable, sure, but almost no FMs (save for 2 particular pvp addicts who grinded pages on alts) I know have HM counter yet.

There's also the fact that unless you have low ping, it's extremely hard to hit a stealthed assassin with Impact. Not talking about RNG evades here - the desync between server and client means I have to aim 5 or 6 metres ahead of where I see the Assassin's silhouette.

Circle strafe. Circle strafe all day. Most FMs won't be able to hit you - if you've seen FMs just outright miss you when they spam Impact, it's not because they suck at aiming (well, I would hope not), it's because of the desync.


Turning my textures down whenever I get matched up against an Assassin just so I can see them better is also a pain in the ass. Otherwise, they're not really easy to visually follow, it hurts my eyes rather badly.


I've played the matchup from both sides and I find it easier to win with my 46 HM1 Assassin than my level 50 HM 10 Force Master.




An FM can do a lot to prevent damage + avoid long combos (I'll admit, frost orbits and Tab + SS are nice), but to win the FM has to kill the Assassin. In an equal matchup Assassin will win against FM on damage every time even if Assassin's %hp bar is lower at the end of the match.


The pressure is on the FM to beat the clock and kill you before 3 minutes. In an even matchup he will heal up from a lot of your damage, but that's meaningless when the game looks at "Damage Dealt", not "Remaining % HP".


The Assassin can make a lot of their damage stick by doing air combos. As soon as a Force Master is in the air they are utterly helpless - we can't Tab or SS once we're airborne. Tab -> LMB -> 4 -> Tab Web works, as does Tab -> LMB -> Tab Web -> (circle behind Force Master) -> Venom Swarm -> Aerial Landmine (Z) -> Shadow Dash to restealth again.

If your ani-cancel is fast, use the Daze version of Shadowslip to quickly put people in the air (F -> Tab) and start from there. It's very hard to F retreat out of.


Make sure your Throwing Dagger lands too. If you time your X re-engage well you wont get deflected - HM Impact has a 1 second cd. Use that window to engage. If they don't have HM Impact they're usually dead meat anyway.


From my perspective, winning against an Assassin isn't so bad if they try to flat out rush me and I win the opener, but if they play for time I will almost always lose unless *big* mistakes are made.


To me, Assassin is roughly as difficult as Blade Master to fight, sometimes even more difficult.


You need HM Impact for this matchup. HM Dragonchar (pierces defense, dazes you anyway) would also be really nice. Without those I'm still going to have a bad time.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/6/2016 at 4:58 PM, Yashuoa said:

I have the most problems with the Sin class (and that 50% evade). I find it especially hard vs those where the timer runs out (and they win in dmg).

So against an assassin, your best friend is the middle tree in frost fury. This makes it so that when you get an RMB crit you can press F for instant 3 Frost Orbs. 3 frost orbs is a nightmare for an assassin because they have very limited ways too cleanse themselves of the freeze they get from hitting you 3 times (3 frost orbs = 1 chill stack on target every time they land an attack on you). 


Anytime i face an assassin I prioritize getting 3 frost orbs and keeping it that way through the whole match. When they stealth, you don't tab or V in fear they'll hit you, you make sure your orbs up and you chase with your AoE impact. Learn to find them and press 1 where they're about to be. Most sins don't fake you out and run left and right, they just keep running in the same direction they're going. *Eventually* they won't evade and you'll land a hit to unstealth them. The assassin can not hit you while you have 3 orbs up or they risk getting chilled (and slowed) or freezing themselves by the third chill. When they're slowed or frozen, that's your greatest opportunity to land your 1 into a stun or just flat out reveal them. After that... just don't hit into their decoy (or snowball cancel their decoy) and light them up with DPS -- make use of your inferno and short fuse burn + meteor (which does extra damage on burn). Also, metoer and cold snap can be used for AoE dps over time which reveal them if they're in that area. Something I like to do (which works in low elo quite a bit) is use Z cold snap 2 or 3 times and V Meteor while they are running around to light up a huge area of the arena with damage over time abilities so they can't step into any of those areas for a little bit without unstealthing themselves. I've had assassins stealth and get immediately revealed because they were stuck in one of my many AoE abilities. 


Hope this helps.


Disclaimer: I'm not a pro force-master (not even close), but we are an assassin's hardest counter when played correctly. I got to gold using this against every assassin I ran into and it worked like a charm. Any round I lost was due to me not chasing the sin hard enough when he was trying to wait out the timer (you have to kill them before the timer runs out. You heal much more than them which means the points from timer running out go to them for doing more damage).



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On 6/6/2016 at 4:58 PM, Yashuoa said:




with this thread I hope to find some people to spar with.


I'm wanting to get back into PvP on my assassin (that's why I initially created it) and would be happy to help you learn to counter assassins as an FM -- I'm not even close to the best in either class, but that's why I'd like to spar. I can help in any way I know how and get extra practice against one of sin's hardest counters. 


Since the daily challenge event is going on and I want to complete it on two characters a day... I'd mostly only have time to spar on the weekends since I work weekdays. Feel free to private message me on forums to add as a friend in game. 

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