Another good content creator quits...and here's why

[DomiSotto]

16 minutes ago, endervoid said:

You just can make the daylie challenge (doable in 2h) and some crafting. With that you already should be making 20g. You get mininmum 3 stingers (=9g) + 10g for crafting. Then you'll maybe get some other drops + the gold from the daylie lvl 50 dungeon that is in the challenge(forgot maybe around 2g?). Now you can do a quick Cold Storage ,Yeti or/and Frozen Lair Run (which goes really quick in a clan group). So another 2 stingers minimum + maybe 3-4g for the quests, i.e. 10g. There you already have around 30g.

Yesterday, Cold Storage was a Daily Challenge & I decided to try to do CS and Mandate every day for stingers anyway. So, I F8'd it. We wiped twice and disbanded. Then I went with my clan and cleared it as usual without breaking a sweat.

 

My F8 group were all fresh level 50s with HM1 or 2.

 

So, do tell me that pretty tale again how a fresh level 50 should just go and clear the Daily Challenge for gold. I am lucky I was carried on every dungeon I have ever run in this game, but most people are not in clans at all, let alone in clans with HM9+ who have the gear set to take on a few direct hits of a thermonuclear warhead.

[Tsuchiryu]

9 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

My F8 group were all fresh level 50s with HM1 or 2.

 

Which is why people leaving PUGs is a thing and, sadly, a necessity in some cases. Especially true if you experienced too many failures like I did with, say, Yeti. Which is why AP checking in PUGs is a thing, because decent numbers there and across other stats leave you more confident that one particular PUG can pull it off without too much hassle. I haven't been as unlucky as you were with Cold Storage PUGs, incidentally, but the point still stands: you can't choose the overall AP and class composition of PUGs, but you sure have the means to check, gauge and decide if sticking with a particular one is worth it or not. Use them at your discretion if you must.

 

It's a sad fact that AP and other stats do matter for certain dungeons. Not to the degree many LFP messages you see in cross-server would lead you to believe, but they do.

[Charas Blade]

8 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

Yesterday, Cold Storage was a Daily Challenge & I decided to try to do CS and Mandate every day for stingers anyway. So, I F8'd it. We wiped twice and disbanded. Then I went with my clan and cleared it as usual without breaking a sweat.

 

My F8 group were all fresh level 50s with HM1 or 2.

 

So, do tell me that pretty tale again how a fresh level 50 should just go and clear the Daily Challenge for gold. I am lucky I was carried on every dungeon I have ever run in this game, but most people are not in clans at all, let alone in clans with HM9+ who have the gear set to take on a few direct hits of a thermonuclear warhead.

but to be honest, I wasn't as u just said "thermonuclear warhead" but clan helped me alot, atm I'm rarely do 4 men in F8 or 6men in F8, coz u can find ppl with 600+ and wipe on simple thing, gear doesnt make u better as player, it's only helps to do it faster, however there is some limits, but still asura4 can be done with just 520 (it's a top dungeon atm).

[DomiSotto]

1 minute ago, Tsuchiryu said:

It's a sad fact that AP and other stats do matter for certain dungeons. Not to the degree many LFP messages you see in cross-server would lead you to believe, but they do.

Ah, we've almost got it on the first attempt, so the second was worth it, but one of the guys DCD, so that's that. I really wanted the group to make it, since I belong with these guys, not the gaming aristocracy that carries me.

[endervoid]

37 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

Yesterday, Cold Storage was a Daily Challenge & I decided to try to do CS and Mandate every day for stingers anyway. So, I F8'd it. We wiped twice and disbanded. Then I went with my clan and cleared it as usual without breaking a sweat.

 

My F8 group were all fresh level 50s with HM1 or 2.

 

So, do tell me that pretty tale again how a fresh level 50 should just go and clear the Daily Challenge for gold. I am lucky I was carried on every dungeon I have ever run in this game, but most people are not in clans at all, let alone in clans with HM9+ who have the gear set to take on a few direct hits of a thermonuclear warhead.

Yeah stuff like sadly happens with random groups. You have to get a thick skin. And from my experience it has nothing to do with HM1 or HM2, often enough i see HM6 complain about DPS before the boss, then die first and leave. Or people that don't have 10 seconds so other players have time to get dragonblood making it for new players harder then it has to be.

But thats a community problem. Everyone is very busy nowadays and on a very tight shedule so they don't have time for failure or time to wait some seconds. And ofc everyone of them started as a pro never making a mistake. But some of them are a little nicer and you will get some helpful advice like "l2p noob" or "get good".

 

Only solution is to either ignore all that or just get into a nice clan and run with a more relaxed group of players.

 

 

[DomiSotto]

10 minutes ago, endervoid said:

Yeah stuff like sadly happens with random groups. You have to get a thick skin. And from my experience it has nothing to do with HM1 or HM2, often enough i see HM6 complain about DPS before the boss, then die first and leave. Or people that don't have 10 seconds so other players have time to get dragonblood making it for new players harder then it has to be.

No, it was not like that. We waited for everyone to get DB and did the r-check. I was the token HM6, and I had agro on me or the cat all the time, did not drop it or run. Our DPS was just not enough to get us through, is all. One of the guys by some reason chose not to pick up DB, and died early. Someone told him with zero emotions to do so the second time. We waited again to make sure everyone got the blood.  But the second time a guy DC'd, and did not re-log till we were almost done wiping. Then we just quit without trading words.

 

I saw advert in the lobby for 500+ CS, which I could have technically asked to join. But at that point I saw clan calls for Zaiwei/CS and Mandate, so I did that combo with my clan.

 

I have options. Other people do not.

 

[endervoid]

38 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

No, it was not like that. We waited for everyone to get DB and did the r-check. I was the token HM6, and I had agro on me or the cat all the time, did not drop it or run. Our DPS was just not enough to get us through, is all. One of the guys by some reason chose not to pick up DB, and died early. Someone told him with zero emotions to do so the second time. We waited again to make sure everyone got the blood.  But the second time a guy DC'd, and did not re-log till we were almost done wiping. Then we just quit without trading words.

 

I saw advert in the lobby for 500+ CS, which I could have technically asked to join. But at that point I saw clan calls for Zaiwei/CS and Mandate, so I did that combo with my clan.

 

I have options. Other people do not.

 

I never had problems with cold storage tbh. And most clan members only have problems on yeti with random groups.  But you can always ask a nice fm or sm from the clan in that case for help.

 

If people are not able to get through the problems that random groups impose they always can join a clan. I don't have pitty for people that complain about random groups but never join a clan. But maybe thats because i'm from a time where you had to find people via chat for dungeons (which takes longer then having some bad f8-groups), so you would have a long friend list automaticaly after some time. I'm playing a MMO for a reason after all.

 

So to answer you, everyone has options. Not taking them and then complain is not the way to go.

[DomiSotto]

8 minutes ago, endervoid said:

If people are not able to get through the problems that random groups impose they always can join a clan. I don't have pitty for people that complain about random groups but never join a clan. But maybe thats because i'm from a time where you had to find people via chat for dungeons (which takes longer then having some bad f8-groups), so you would have a long friend list automaticaly after some time. I'm playing a MMO for a reason after all.

For me the F8 breakdown after a certain level of difficulty was one of the greatest disappointments in BnS. I used to be in a guild with scheduled runs, and when I started playing BnS I found it incredible how the X-Server was so easy and cool, and how the dungeons were a snap. It allowed me to just drop in and play independently of other folks. Same with the 24M areas.

 

But then it became the same old story. You have to make mmo friends, have to find a good clan, build the relationships, show up, be active, make sure you are not left out of the runs, be on the VoiP. It's networking and schmoozing, and building your gaming resume with references too. Not fun and relaxing any more, too much RL in it. A pity that.

 

I really loved the parallel play concept where you met people, downed a boss and parted after the run like two ships in the night. :(

[Sithaer]

1 hour ago, DomiSotto said:

For me the F8 breakdown after a certain level of difficulty was one of the greatest disappointments in BnS. I used to be in a guild with scheduled runs, and when I started playing BnS I found it incredible how the X-Server was so easy and cool, and how the dungeons were a snap. It allowed me to just drop in and play independently of other folks. Same with the 24M areas.

 

But then it became the same old story. You have to make mmo friends, have to find a good clan, build the relationships, show up, be active, make sure you are not left out of the runs, be on the VoiP. It's networking and schmoozing, and building your gaming resume with references too. Not fun and relaxing any more, too much RL in it. A pity that.

 

I really loved the parallel play concept where you met people, downed a boss and parted after the run like two ships in the night. :(

I can totally relate to this,exactly how I feel atm regarding my 'place' in the game.

 

I've started this game on my own w/o any form of previous knowledge of the game and slowly played my way up to where I am currently '523AP HM 8 FM'.

That took me 2+ months but that was fine with me cause I did it at my own pace and rather relaxed,only used F8 for my dungeon runs and it was fine till this point of the game.

 

Now I came to realise that if I want to progress further I need either an active guild who takes me to runs or get 4-5 'mmo friends' and create a static group for end game content/4 man runs.

Well jeah,that aint happening as I don't really get along with most ppl in general let alone being in a big guild.I'm not really a social person and if the game is gonna force that on me then I guess I'm calling it a goodbye and will only play for the story whenever its updated.

 

I'm not new to mmos but I never played them for the social aspect and I always managed just fine even if a bit slower than the rest,but this game is like forcing it on me at this point and I don't like that.

 

Too bad cause I do enjoy the gameplay 'pve only' and the design of the game,even planned to play it long term but theres just no way I can do end game activities with F8 at this point nor progress further with my gear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DomiSotto]

24 minutes ago, Sithaer said:

Too bad cause I do enjoy the gameplay 'pve only' and the design of the game,even planned to play it long term but theres just no way I can do end game activities with F8 at this point nor progress further with my gear.

 

I enjoyed all aspects of the game tremendously until I hit the level 45 purple dungeons. I actually do enjoy Cold Storage, Mandate and the new 24M area - and frostscale too, were it more populated.

 

I would have been tickled pink if they kept the current level of rewards in the 6M dungeons, but reduced the mechanics/coordination requirements, tiered out the 6M in its current iteration as HM mode, with increased rewards and removed the HM from X-server. You can reach every dungeon from a square in Zaiwei, so should not be a problem. This way, the X-server pug crowd could faceroll the bosses and gear up slower, while the static groups of mmo friends could enjoy their choreographed performances in max runs per hour set up with the leet players.

[Shadzar]

2 hours ago, endervoid said:

Only solution is to either ignore all that or just get into a nice clan and run with a more relaxed group of players.

No, there is another option. For the company producing the game to take responsibility of the toxic playstyle THEY created and endorsed through sponsored streamers and youtubers, and undo the damage those people did for the sake of getting a giant leap of interest in the game.

 

There is NO excuse for NCSoft/NCWest to promote this kind of behavior in a game or in society. They have 2 options to do this:

 

1. Ban the toxic players through some sort of player tribunal like Riot has for League of Legends, with administrative review

2. Change the game so that the toxic element cannot exist, or even if it does affects very few people.

 

The design of the game breeds the toxicity of the playerbase, and THAT is the core of the problem that needs to be fixed. They have to remove the game elements that allow for such toxicity en masse. IE: The hackers running around in faction masks so they cannot be reported, the party kick function in cross server dungeon PRIOR to entering the dungeon, etc.

 

I mean seriously why have a kick function to join a LFG party when you can make a private room and invite people? You don't know what another random player can or can't do. that 300~400 AP player in Asura could be "praetor19" or "AALaguna" and have the best mechanics ability for the dungeon out of the party while the 640+ AP player could just be relying on the stats and not have a clue what to do. You won't know until you have played with them.

 

So you can't fault the players for the bad game design, you have to fault either the producers of NA/EU for not having any say or control in the game, NCSoft for publishing a badly designed game, or "team bloodlust" for making a toxic game in the first place. Proof of concept, you can't kill people with guns in SSP anymore, because there are no guns. Remove the toxic elements form the game and likewise it will be harder for players to be toxic. Sadly this is what kind of babysitting* the world takes today because people just can't handle themselves in another fashion.

 

*Babysitting - they had to remove the guns from their reach (SSP) so they didn't hurt each other (create an environment for a negative play experience).

[endervoid]

58 minutes ago, Sithaer said:

I can totally relate to this,exactly how I feel atm regarding my 'place' in the game.

 

I've started this game on my own w/o any form of previous knowledge of the game and slowly played my way up to where I am currently '523AP HM 8 FM'.

That took me 2+ months but that was fine with me cause I did it at my own pace and rather relaxed,only used F8 for my dungeon runs and it was fine till this point of the game.

 

Now I came to realise that if I want to progress further I need either an active guild who takes me to runs or get 4-5 'mmo friends' and create a static group for end game content/4 man runs.

Well jeah,that aint happening as I don't really get along with most ppl in general let alone being in a big guild.I'm not really a social person and if the game is gonna force that on me then I guess I'm calling it a goodbye and will only play for the story whenever its updated.

 

I'm not new to mmos but I never played them for the social aspect and I always managed just fine even if a bit slower than the rest,but this game is like forcing it on me at this point and I don't like that.

 

Too bad cause I do enjoy the gameplay 'pve only' and the design of the game,even planned to play it long term but theres just no way I can do end game activities with F8 at this point nor progress further with my gear.

 

Nobody is "forcing" you to make friends and find a static. But why should all the content be easily accessible by random groups? What are about people that like to play in a static, should they be bored to death with super easy content? And btw the content in BnS is already easy and completly doable with only using f8. But of course the requirements are higher when people don't like to communicate and to socialize.  If anything BnS could need some harder content that for static groups is some kind of challenge.

 

I never understood why people want all the content so easy that you can braindead walk through it with some random guys you found in 30 seconds. That would completly destroy any MMO because all half decent player would leave that game. There should be enough content for both groups of players, static and random groups. But random group lovers always want more :(

 

And you said you already played MMOs, i wonder which ones. Because the ones i played you never got endgame gear without finding a static or a raidgroup. (WoW BC, Rift, FF14, Wildstar). There was content for random groups, but not exclusively. You know, you cant expect from a game that in his cores s a social game to only have content for people that don't want to socialize.

 

And all gear progression is gated in all MMOs i know of. It's mostly done through Ids and weekly resets. Which is even worse, because after you have cleared the id you don't have anything to do for a week. And all you can do is hope for some loot next week.

And if you compare how long you have to wait for upgrades in those progression systems, it's much faster here till some point. But all upgrades after that point are for people that really like to play a lot and to farm efficiently. It's not needed for progression at all.

 

 

[DomiSotto]

25 minutes ago, endervoid said:

I never understood why people want all the content so easy that you can braindead walk through it with some random guys you found in 30 seconds. That would completly destroy any MMO because all half decent player would leave that game. There should be enough content for both groups of players, static and random groups. But random group lovers always want more :(

So, which content is doable with randoms? Cold Storage apparently is not. BHS and East Fleet? Well, that's a great variety. I like playing with other people, but I do not want it to be a commitment and hard work. Easy = everyone's happy, got what they wanted and go away with a smile on their face. Hard = wipe a lot and straining and taxing goodwill on the internet. Leet guys can have Hard Modes.

 

Unless someone extremely confident led a rag-tag pug band to victory, pug experience on hard content in my  experience sucks. Even with someone like that, it sometimes sucks. I remember the run with my exceedingly awesome friend tanking and leading a pug, and we disbanded after 8 wipes.  I remember pugging it week after week, to fail it each and every time after 6-10 wipes. Every guild run I went on, we've passed. Once Bio relaxed the mechanics of that particular fight, it became passable by pugs. Halleluiah!

 

SWTOR was my first & only MMO.

 

Played it for a couple of years before moving to BnS, had to read a list of 101 MMO terms to figure out what aggro was about three months after starting SWTOR. Then PvP crowd taught me to kite and keybind. A nice kid half world away taught me to play a MMO. PvE crowd taught me to parse on a dummy. Went to BnS 'cause the 1vs1 arena, and because I was precisely tired of logging in to run parses for 30 min on a dummy before the Op I've signed up for, and do the Op. And BnS had X-server which for SWTOR crowd was the end all happy-happy thing.

 

I've tried harder content with guild runs, and all those small MMO triumphs, and my heart is firmly set on fast, fun and easy.

[Sithaer]

25 minutes ago, endervoid said:

And you said you already played MMOs, i wonder which ones. Because the ones i played you never got endgame gear without finding a static or a raidgroup. (WoW BC, Rift, FF14, Wildstar). There was content for random groups, but not exclusively. You know, you cant expect from a game that in his cores s a social game to only have content for people that don't want to socialize.

 

 

Risk your life 1 and 2 for a good 3-4 years but that game is mainly PvP at endgame,never had to rely on a Guild there,even tho I was in one it wasn't needed.

Switched to Vindictus when it was relased in NA and then EU so thats another 4+ year or so.

During my entire Vindi EU career I had 1 long term guild and even that only happened because my 'partner' was there so yet again it wasn't a neccesity to progress.

In that game you can pretty much do anything with a random group as long as they aint too brainded/undergeared,if not then I can just solo where the raid boss has its HP scaled according to the party size.

You do need a good enough gear/skill for soloing raids in a normal ammount of time but my point is that I could get that gear w/o being pushed into activities I don't feel comfortable with.

 

After reading this topic I kinda get the feeling that if you don't have an active guild or a static 4 man group/don't do pay2win either then you might aswell gtfo out of the game,well I get the idea now so I guess thats what I'm gonna do anyway.

 

As for random runs here,I've tried to do Yeti only to get myself a new soul shield and also learn the mechanics,well that didn't go well so I don't even bother with that run anymore.Now I can only imagine how Asura/Nexus goes with F8:P

 

Kinda reminds me one of the raids back in the earlier days in Vindi,doing it with randoms was a suicide 90% of the time but at least that raid wasn't that important anyway,unlike here.

 

[endervoid]

6 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

So, which content is doable with randoms? Cold Storage apparently is not. BHS and East Fleet? Well, that's a great variety. I like playing with other people, but I do not want it to be a commitment and hard work. Easy = everyone's happy, got what they wanted and go away with a smile on their face. Hard = wipe a lot and straining and taxing goodwill on the internet. Leet guys can have Hard Modes.

 

Unless someone extremely confident led a rag-tag pug band to victory, pug experience on hard content in my  experience sucks. Even with someone like that, it sometimes sucks. I remember the run with my exceedingly awesome friend tanking and leading a pug, and we disbanded after 8 wipes.  I remember pugging it week after week, to fail it each and every time after 6-10 wipes. Every guild run I went on, we've passed. Once Bio relaxed the mechanics of that particular fight, it became passable by pugs. Halleluiah!

 

SWTOR was my first & only MMO.

 

Played it for a couple of years before moving to BnS, had to read a list of 101 MMO terms to figure out what aggro was. Went to BnS 'cause the 1vs1 arena, because I was precisely tired of logging in to run parses for 30 min on a dummy before the Op I've signed up for, and do the Op.

 

I've tried harder content with guild runs, and all those small MMO triumphs, and my heart is firmly set on fast, fun and easy.

Cold storage is super easy with randoms. Only because you had one bad run... I wiped in Bloodshade harbour once too, doesnt mean its only doable by statics. All 6man are easy even with random groups though LFP. Ofc some groups do dispand or don't finish the boss, but that doesn't happen to often.

 

And easy /= everyone's happy. Maybe you are, i'm not and many other people aren't either. So instead of making content for everyone you would like to have all content to be easy. A little bit selfish i think.

 

And even all the 4mans are done with randoms every day. But you can't expect to go in there with an uncoordinates group, not outgearing the content and then doing it easily without a wipe. If that would be that case, then why introduce 4man at all, if it's as easy as 6man.

 

I aggree with you on everything you said about the toxic community, but not about tailoring all the difficulty to random groups that don't like to wipe.

[ZackGTie]

42 minutes ago, endervoid said:

Nobody is "forcing" you to make friends and find a static. But why should all the content be easily accessible by random groups? What are about people that like to play in a static, should they be bored to death with super easy content? And btw the content in BnS is already easy and completly doable with only using f8. But of course the requirements are higher when people don't like to communicate and to socialize.  If anything BnS could need some harder content that for static groups is some kind of challenge.

LOL okey so apparently the problem is that the game is to easy since its double using F8 right? hum i see... so it doesn't matter if 1 of my 6 players its a bot, afk or DC right? oh never mind we can always recruit another bot...and then when you find a decent party it turn out that lvl 50 will always attack the boss before we can get DB or get killed by the fire.

 

It does not matter if dungeons are "easy"... the community is the problem, the in game mechanics are the problem.  I think you are failing to see why people complain. Is not your individual skill level what matters. For a new player, for those of us who have alts. This is not easy! lvl 50s are ass*****! but that another subject. You can't get better in a game that is set up the make you fail. and that why people leave, at this point in time you can do blue dungeons since nobody is doing them. you can complete lvl 45 heroics and get the mats unless to farm the same dungeon over and over for the next month to advance your weapon to next tier and that is just the beginning. 

 

And why would i want harder content for my main? if i will have to farm dungeons  every day why would i want it to be harder that what already is? i will tell you why.... because there is no end game. once you are max stats you can just keep doing the same thing every day. No clan mission, quest, pvp, server pvp,  open world pvp, no dynamic quests and funny enough the only "challenging" content in this game is pvp that does not require stats in the first place. xD

 

42 minutes ago, endervoid said:

And you said you already played MMOs, i wonder which ones. Because the ones i played you never got endgame gear without finding a static or a raidgroup. (WoW BC, Rift, FF14, Wildstar).

 

Well sorry to tell you but you are playing old generation MMO's. why are you listing FF14? with random or static player if they don't know the mechanics you are doom either way. and gear does not matter since is easy obtainable in game and people i snot constantly checking your stats and even then people are extremely nice. Games like GW2 do not force you to grind a specific lvl of gear to be the best. You can just get exotic gear that is really easy to obtain and you are set. You can craft ascended armor with is the best  but the stat difference is minimal. Then, we have BNS. were top geared people will prevent you from getting loot for retarded in-game mechanics. There is a big difference.  BNS is close to Last Chaos and Shaiya and pretty old MMOs design. Yes a MMO is a MMO and that is why we are here however that does not mean it will excuse the ridiculous amount of mats required to gain very minimal AP. That is not progression that sound to me Farmville 2.0 to me.

 

Again no matter what we said NCsoft wont do a thing to fix it. The game is been out for year now and its not going to change. Farm you stuff folks and see all on the next MMO.

PD: Black dessert is the same stuff don't even bother. Korean MMOs are all the same Farmville clone.

 

 

 

 

[DomiSotto]

6 minutes ago, endervoid said:

And easy /= everyone's happy. Maybe you are, i'm not and many other people aren't either. So instead of making content for everyone you would like to have all content to be easy. A little bit selfish i think.

No, I'd like one extra tier, with preserving the current iteration as is, as a hard mode. What we are lacking is a story mode/easy dungeons for end-game. At some point the dungeons just have hardmode option, and from what I see people posting, the Sogun's Lament is only a start of the curve, when there will be no easy content at all, not even 24M.

 

Have not you played a game with tiers of content? This way you can play 6M-Sm, 6m-HM and 4M becomes a NiM.

[Charas Blade]

done all possiblle by now content with pugs, I dont just random queue, u check section there ppl recruiting 

[Shadzar]

26 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

No, I'd like one extra tier, with preserving the current iteration as is, as a hard mode. What we are lacking is a story mode/easy dungeons for end-game. At some point the dungeons just have hardmode option, and from what I see people posting, the Sogun's Lament is only a start of the curve, when there will be no easy content at all, not even 24M.

 

Have not you played a game with tiers of content? This way you can play 6M-Sm, 6m-HM and 4M becomes a NiM.

This game has tiers, sadly they are all the same "mode" of tiers. hard dungeons are all hard, the "easy" or "easier" comes from being 6-man not 4-man, but the mechanics aren't the same and change based on which version it is to give the same average difficulty, you just have more meat shields in the 6 than the 4.

 

An interesting idea though. a blue version of the purple dungeons that don't give the super special loot drops, like outfits are purple only dungeons. Would suck, i like outfits as much as the next, but it would allow people to progress in the game through the blue dungeon and get their special goodies that don't have to do with progressions in the purple dungeons. Likewise a green version of the blue dungeons. Green version of level 36 dunegon Brightstone might include no upgrade weapons, and only 1 Moonwater tear from RNG, not consistant, but would give people the chance to play more and feel as though they succeed more by actually being able to do stuff outside of having to deal with the toxic players.

 

Solo version of Blackram Narrows, where you can get the basic loot in a blue version, but blight items and outfits only appear in the purple dungeon.

 

This sort of thing already happens for the storyline since Ogong's Folly, you get those 2 "helpers" to complete the story part, and Tainted Lab and Altar of Divine Will/Heaven's Mandate have their own story line versions, so opening these solo-able dungeons up would give people a chance to progress to get some things without having to deal with the toxic element and more people could be happy. The toxic players get to be toxic to each other, and the civil players get a civil game where they can progress. Obviously toxic players wont like it that people are there they can't be toxic to, but those people shouldn't be catered to anyway. Blue versions of Purple dungeons would yield less of the needed things less often, but be faster, populated with less mobs, whatever to make them work to allow people to do them.

 

Actually probably the best idea I have read for fixing the toxic element in the game would be providing something like this as it takes less coding than anything else since all the dungeons are there, the mobs are there, you just need a way to choose which version you enter, and then a shorter list of the mobs, like Pigsty gets only 2 of the wardens at the entrance and half the shrooms in the mid boss room, etc. you reduce the number of mobs appearing without having to change their mechanics or stats.

 

This is common in TTRPG to alter your TPK areas so your effort is not wasted and makes it feel as though you can progress, but is greatly about resource management that killing everyone for the sake of killing them as a game master. Risk = reward scenario at its finest. Like a blue Asura would only give 1 specific shield piece every time, reduced stingers, no flowers, maybe a petal. but it lets you learn the mechanics before going into heroic where there is more reward for the higher risk. Makes sense also since your skills aren't that important in some dungeons but learning the mechanics are and if you can't survive through a fight to learn the mobs rotations of mechanics you can never learn them and never progress.

[endervoid]

So i'm beginning to understand now. Basicaly the complaint is:

 

-People have insane ap requirements for dungeons, which are expensive to get but not needed.

-Random groups are toxic

-The solution would be to run with clan/static groups which don't have these ap requirements and are not toxic

-But people like to play with random groups

 

So what would be the solution? You reduce mats needed for upgrades. But than random groups will have requirements of 700AP instead of 550-600AP.  And people again will reach an upgrade step which will be hard for them to get and they will be left behind again, because there will always be people that farm in a static or have more time to play and are making more gold.

Or make all upgrade steps super cheap. Then people will rush through the content in 2 weeks and leave the game.

 

Toxic players. Dunno, imho there is no solution, they always will be in random groups. Thats the consequences of a group finder. Solution would be recruiting through chat, but nobody wants that anymore.

 

Besides the requirements of random groups i cant think of a single reason why people complaining about upgrade costs, when all you need is true siren which you get in max 5 weeks.

 

So i think the real complaint isn't about the upgrade cost which are fine for the current content, but about the dungeons beeing to difficult for random groups. Which is a different topic, but people who a bothered by this shouldn't hide behind the "upgrade costs" argument.

 

 

[DomiSotto]

1 hour ago, endervoid said:

o i'm beginning to understand now. Basicaly the complaint is:

 

-People have insane ap requirements for dungeons, which are expensive to get but not needed.

-Random groups are toxic

-The solution would be to run with clan/static groups which don't have these ap requirements and are not toxic

-But people like to play with random groups

uhm, still not it. I guess, it's more about having more relevant things to do in the end game if you don't realy feel like you want to 'git gud' and 'git a gud clan'. Maybe if it aleast we had relevant rewards in Frostscale Basin, and the Beastbog did not have the waiting times as the main challenge in the dungeon and also had relevant rewards for a level 50 player, then at least you could do the 3 24M dungeons, and the blues. Not sure if CS is actually easy or not any more, but well, maybe that and the Mandate are actually doable in a pug, who knows.  Eh, well. Hopefully at some point a game comes out that is more conductive to parallel play and is an eye candy with a strong story and chars. BnS imo started great, and went into a direction that I don't like emphasizing commitment and hard work over fun.