Remove Failure From Premium Transformation Stones!

[JatoJato]

On 5.6.2016 at 2:43 PM, Kitah said:

Adding to this. They could also make it always be successful and just increase the things needed by double or triple the amount. The only reason why I won't be crafting is to basically throw my money away and get nothing back.

Aggreed. Furhtermore because i think the rng is completely indepenent in its roles all those percentage stuff would not ensure that it is really better. An increase in materials for a safe transmute would do it. Also the "its endgame content" argument should be satisfied because then you had to put in more materials (and therefore more time).

[Grimoir]

On 6/5/2016 at 0:10 PM, Atheyana said:

I could see two things happening with the Transmutation that would make sense. Some would argue (both sides) but here is the neutral approach to this. The current setup is too expensive and extreme if you monetize the stones.

 

• 4  Silverfrost Transformation Stones  (16g ea)  =  64g total
• 15  Moonstones (3g 75s ea) =  56.25g total
• 100  Soulstones (35s ea) = 35g total
• 20  Frozen Stingers (3g ea)  =  60g total
• 50g for crafting

The above means you spend 265.25g ($36.48) each time you craft a Premium Transformation Stone. It is a bit extreme looking from this approach. With the above said there are two routes that could improve this without hurting things too much.

 

• Reduce the Transmutation costs by 50% which will maintain current level of failure but allow a player to craft twice with the amount to atm craft one.
• Second option is to change Success vs Failure into 3 tiers
  • Success = 68 to 100 for roll
  • Fail but keep resources = 35 to 67 for roll
  • Fail and lose everything = 1 to 34 for roll

Both methods allow for failure but are less costly than the current system. Fairly certain this may cause controversy even though the cost needs to be reduced to some extent.

To this part:

 

Silverfrost Transformation Stones - You can craft them yourself

Moonstones - Easily farmable now

Soulstones - super easy to get atm

Stingers - i wont even comment.

50g stays

 

So....instead of 265g you only use up guess what 50g to try it.

 

People seriously need to stop calculating everything into gold because they are lazy to farm, Craft, farm yuor own mats and it will be much much cheaper for you.

On that note i think the rate is fine as it is.

[JatoJato]

2 hours ago, Grimoir said:

To this part:

Silverfrost Transformation Stones - You can craft them yourself

Moonstones - Easily farmable now

Soulstones - super easy to get atm

Stingers - i wont even comment.

50g stays

So....instead of 265g you only use up guess what 50g to try it.

People seriously need to stop calculating everything into gold because they are lazy to farm, Craft, farm yuor own mats and it will be much much cheaper for you.

On that note i think the rate is fine as it is.

Lol the problem with the premium stones is exactly that you can not farm + craft them. Because for example 2 guys are farming - lets name them "Max" and "Moritz" and lets just say they team up and do a week worth of farming togheter and lets also assume they get round about the same mats. 

 

Now Max is a very lucky guy with good gambling rng - he gets 5 out of 10 tries. 

However Moritz is not that lucky - he only gets 2 out of 10 tries.

 

Now how can it be "fair" if both players invested the same amount of time and energy but one earns 2.5 times more than the other?

 

Also to do the example more extreme - they do not farm togehter - Max farms 2 days - Moritz farms 5 days. Both gamble both get the results i mentioned above. Hm yeah seems legit that the player that did the grinding (what ppl always bring as a kind of core element of BnS) gets less than the lazy guy... Seems very legit to me...

 

As you can see on this example rng allows players to completely neglect farming mats through grinding. Also as you can see for Moritz it would be better to calculate alle things in gold and sell and buy the stones because he has bad rng (but migh be disappointed because it is stupid to have to farm mats but can not craft stuff with them because rng prevents you to do it).

 

And one last comment to the "all things are getting cheaper"-thing. Yes, of course all things are getting cheaper but this applies also to the stuff that you are able to farm. You can make less money today than at times when the stuff was more expensive.

And btw i would calculate that the average player does not make more than 50g a day. So even if the gamble would cost only 50g (and you have to have the mats) they could only try it 1 time. So if they are unlucky (as i heard from many players - because there is no pitty-system in place) and got only about 2-3 stones in 20 tries they have to wait round about 3-4 month to get their weapon to max. And only if we assume that they do nothing of the other expensive stuff like broken legendary-ultimate gambling, legendary accessory farming, investing in skills or playing a twink besides that. I would say this makes the leg-weapon rare enough.

[Charas Blade]

On 6/5/2016 at 0:10 PM, Atheyana said:

I could see two things happening with the Transmutation that would make sense. Some would argue (both sides) but here is the neutral approach to this. The current setup is too expensive and extreme if you monetize the stones.

 

• 4  Silverfrost Transformation Stones  (16g ea)  =  64g total
• 15  Moonstones (3g 75s ea) =  56.25g total
• 100  Soulstones (35s ea) = 35g total
• 20  Frozen Stingers (3g ea)  =  60g total
• 50g for crafting

The above means you spend 265.25g ($36.48) each time you craft a Premium Transformation Stone. It is a bit extreme looking from this approach. With the above said there are two routes that could improve this without hurting things too much.

 

 

Here a prices 

 

   STS - 9g (36g)

   Moonstones - 2g (30g)

   Soulstones x100 - 28g

   20 Stingers - dunno maybe  1g (last time I saw 1stinger - 3g it was around 2 months ago)

   50g for click

 

Raw 110g a click - psts costs 400g so you makes 2 out of 4 u get extra 400g bonus!!!!

 

 

WTF with you ppl 

[JatoJato]

19 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

 

 

Here a prices 

 

   STS - 9g (36g)

   Moonstones - 2g (30g)

   Soulstones x100 - 28g

   20 Stingers - dunno maybe  1g (last time I saw 1stinger - 3g it was around 2 months ago)

   50g for click

 

Raw 110g a click - psts costs 400g so you makes 2 out of 4 u get extra 400g bonus!!!!

 

 

WTF with you ppl 

Yeah i know a guy that took 20 tries to get one stone... Very funny don't you think? And you bring some numbers that have 0 meaning.  First the successrate is not public and second as i said in some other post -> 1) there is no pitty counter and 2) the rols seem to be indepenent so comparing costs of one role to the stone itself is just meaningless because you can not say how many rolls you need if you farm your stuff. 

[studioMagicalFox]

On 6/4/2016 at 11:57 PM, Intruethere said:

Whats wrong with you ppl? I am not worried about "Legendaries", i am worried about my money and my time spended to get stuff. I dont "support" the game to push a button and say bye bye to my work. Now or 3 months later, who cares!? This maybe just the beggining to gamble for everything in this game. I dont mind to roll a little bit, but hundreds or euros and hours ...is just too much. I already quited one game after 5 years of playing, because evertything was passing trough Item Shop (including leveling) with high rate of failure. At the end of the day you could have spended 100 euros just to nerf your charcter (downgrade gear and weapon). This game is heading in that direction, so think a little till is not too late.

Let me guess. Rift by Trion Games?

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, JatoJato said:

Lol the problem with the premium stones is exactly that you can not farm + craft them. Because for example 2 guys are farming - lets name them "Max" and "Moritz" and lets just say they team up and do a week worth of farming togheter and lets also assume they get round about the same mats. 

 

Now Max is a very lucky guy with good gambling rng - he gets 5 out of 10 tries. 

However Moritz is not that lucky - he only gets 2 out of 10 tries.

 

Now how can it be "fair" if both players invested the same amount of time and energy but one earns 2.5 times more than the other?

 

Also to do the example more extreme - they do not farm togehter - Max farms 2 days - Moritz farms 5 days. Both gamble both get the results i mentioned above. Hm yeah seems legit that the player that did the grinding (what ppl always bring as a kind of core element of BnS) gets less than the lazy guy... Seems very legit to me...

 

As you can see on this example rng allows players to completely neglect farming mats through grinding. Also as you can see for Moritz it would be better to calculate alle things in gold and sell and buy the stones because he has bad rng (but migh be disappointed because it is stupid to have to farm mats but can not craft stuff with them because rng prevents you to do it).

 

And one last comment to the "all things are getting cheaper"-thing. Yes, of course all things are getting cheaper but this applies also to the stuff that you are able to farm. You can make less money today than at times when the stuff was more expensive.

And btw i would calculate that the average player does not make more than 50g a day. So even if the gamble would cost only 50g (and you have to have the mats) they could only try it 1 time. So if they are unlucky (as i heard from many players - because there is no pitty-system in place) and got only about 2-3 stones in 20 tries they have to wait round about 3-4 month to get their weapon to max. And only if we assume that they do nothing of the other expensive stuff like broken legendary-ultimate gambling, legendary accessory farming, investing in skills or playing a twink besides that. I would say this makes the leg-weapon rare enough.

LEt me tell you this:

 

All players have the same chances to farm materials, all players have the same chance to get a stone, all players can win or fail and this makes it fair as everyone has an equal chance.

 

The fact that you are simply unlucky has nothing to do with it.  its the same as you getting angry because someone won the lottery even tho you both bought tickets.

 

The game gives a fair and equal chance to everyone. Your own luck is not the games fault.

[JatoJato]

2 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

LEt me tell you this:

 

All players have the same chances to farm materials, all players have the same chance to get a stone, all players can win or fail and this makes it fair as everyone has an equal chance.

 

The fact that you are simply unlucky has nothing to do with it.  its the same as you getting angry because someone won the lottery even tho you both bought tickets.

 

The game gives a fair and equal chance to everyone. Your own luck is not the games fault.

Do they - hm tbh i doubt that rng is completely independent in this game. But this could be some conspiracy theory - so let's not focus on that.

 

Anyway what you compare are 2 different things. First to the lottery - yes you are correct at a lottery noone complains about rng - but this can be compared to for example the windrest pouches. There you can go invest practically no time at all besides some gold to get some rng pouches. You win or you lose but you do not complain if others win - same as with the lottery. 

But farming is not a lottery - because the correct comparison would be working in the real world. And i think many ppl  would complain if they do the same work - but get paid diffrently (based on an rng-factor). Same goes for the stones name me a reason why this have to be a gamble there is no impovement of the game in this.

[Grimoir]

5 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

Do they - hm tbh i doubt that rng is completely independent in this game. But this could be some conspiracy theory - so let's not focus on that.

 

Anyway what you compare are 2 different things. First to the lottery - yes you are correct at a lottery noone complains about rng - but this can be compared to for example the windrest pouches. There you can go invest practically no time at all besides some gold to get some rng pouches. You win or you lose but you do not complain if others win - same as with the lottery. 

But farming is not a lottery - because the correct comparison would be working in the real world. And i think many ppl  would complain if they do the same work - but get paid diffrently (based on an rng-factor). Same goes for the stones name me a reason why this have to be a gamble there is no impovement of the game in this.

LEt me phrase it this way:

 

Lottery: you work irl, you spend your money on a ticket, you win or loose

Game: you work for materials, you spend them on a try to make a stone, you win or lose

 

Catch the drift?

[Charas Blade]

1 hour ago, JatoJato said:

Yeah i know a guy that took 20 tries to get one stone... Very funny don't you think? And you bring some numbers that have 0 meaning.  First the successrate is not public and second as i said in some other post -> 1) there is no pitty counter and 2) the rols seem to be indepenent so comparing costs of one role to the stone itself is just meaningless because you can not say how many rolls you need if you farm your stuff. 

Yeah great m8, let's remove all rng and allow ppl to get all gear in a week! You like another guy with tradeable necklace..... but then people will leave in a 2 weeks, it's good as it now, you dont want to gamble buy them off market as I do, there is no point to make cry theards.....

[JatoJato]

23 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

LEt me phrase it this way:

 

Lottery: you work irl, you spend your money on a ticket, you win or loose

Game: you work for materials, you spend them on a try to make a stone, you win or lose

 

Catch the drift?

No sry beacuse lottery -> willingly spend money for the reason of excitement. 

Work towards a goal -> reach different milestones in order to reach your goal.

 

12 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

Yeah great m8, let's remove all rng and allow ppl to get all gear in a week! You like another guy with tradeable necklace..... but then people will leave in a 2 weeks, it's good as it now, you dont want to gamble buy them off market as I do, there is no point to make cry theards.....

Yeah first - who said that it has to be reached within a week? This is a farce-argument because we never discussed prices/costs we just discuss rng and its usefullness. Furhtermore if a stone is so expensive that a "upper casual player" needs about 1-2 weeks to get one and we need i think 10 stones for the max-weapon he still would need 10-20 Weeks ergo 2-5 Month to get the max weapon. During this time there is definitely some new content released so that most likely max-gear is not reached for the casual player but he is at least relativley good equipped. And you can be sure that the new content will be expensive again so nothing is lost. I doubt that ppl leave the game earlier if they see progress - the opposite is true imho - beacause ppl that get *cricket*ed up by unecessary rng or see 0 progress after playing/farming 1-2 month are the one quitting.

Nah sry i do not support the tradability of the neck. My opinion on rng and legendary can be seen in another thread i started.

As i said earlier it is a psychological difference if you are able to farm your mats and then build/craft sth with the stuff you farmend or if you calculate all things into its gold value sell it and then buy other stuff (that might even be composed from the stuff you just sold). But yeah - keep on neglecting that. Besides if you have no problem with selling the stones - what would be the problem to introduce a fixed alternative that cannot fail. This way ppl can either gamble or buy of farm more. Also ppl that dont need the stones themselfes and do some gambling out of fun can sell the stones slightly less expensive than the fixed cost.

[Grimoir]

22 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

No sry beacuse lottery -> willingly spend money for the reason of excitement. 

Work towards a goal -> reach different milestones in order to reach your goal.

 

Its both exactly the same. Difference is: Money irl = materials in game.

[Charas Blade]

24 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

Nah sry i do not support the tradability of the neck. My opinion on rng and legendary can be seen in another thread i started.

BUT It's RNG also, you being casual player will never get it or get it maybe in next 6 months..... so I don't see any point to remove RNG from PSTS either. It's you can buy them from market. Look let's say 1 stone cost 400g , raw u make aournd 40g a day, so 10 days to get a stone = nothing , you're not spending even 2 weeks to get 1. Now Stage3 = 5 stones, so it's 50 days around 1.5 month...... to get from True Scorpio to Legendary Stage 3, waw you're such douche srly 

[JatoJato]

33 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Its both exactly the same. Difference is: Money irl = materials in game.

No it is not. Money irl = Gold in game.

 

32 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

BUT It's RNG also, you being casual player will never get it or get it maybe in next 6 months..... so I don't see any point to remove RNG from PSTS either. It's you can buy them from market. Look let's say 1 stone cost 400g , raw u make aournd 40g a day, so 10 days to get a stone = nothing , you're not spending even 2 weeks to get 1. Now Stage3 = 5 stones, so it's 50 days around 1.5 month...... to get from True Scorpio to Legendary Stage 3, waw you're such douche srly 

I also support that the neck is available from other sources. Most preferable some kind of token or achievements. The market argument i addressed in my last post. Continously neglecting it does not make it less true.

[Grimoir]

25 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

No it is not. Money irl = Gold in game.

 

Nope, the game doesnt require you to spend even 1$, the fact that YOU choose to blow money on it is on you but you are in no way forced to. If money irl is your only way to make gold in the game then i would advise you to just quit because wasting that much on any game isnt worth it.

[Charas Blade]

29 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

I also support that the neck is available from other sources. Most preferable some kind of token or achievements. The market argument i addressed in my last post. Continously neglecting it does not make it less true.

 

But thing is it's same as I ask to have PSTS from Archivements! Because why not :) 

 

30 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

No it is not. Money irl = Gold in game.

If you really think way, better don't play or play and don't complain. Fact is that you get gold from dailies and as I stated before it'll take you max 2 months to get Legendary weapons without any single USD/EUR paid. You just come do dailies and that's it (this calculation doesn't include any random lucky drops like asura ember or so).

[JatoJato]

1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

Nope, the game doesnt require you to spend even 1$, the fact that YOU choose to blow money on it is on you but you are in no way forced to. If money irl is your only way to make gold in the game then i would advise you to just quit because wasting that much on any game isnt worth it.

Wtf are you talking about.  I never said anything about spendig money. We were discussing currencys in 2 worlds. One is the real world were the currency is $ or € and the other is the fictive world of BnS were the comparable currency is Gold. So either you did not understand or willingly try to cloud your arguments so that ppl have negative feelings because noone likes whales. 

Besides i never spent a single dime besides premium.

[JatoJato]

1 hour ago, Charas Blade said:

 

But thing is it's same as I ask to have PSTS from Archivements! Because why not :) 

 

If you really think way, better don't play or play and don't complain. Fact is that you get gold from dailies and as I stated before it'll take you max 2 months to get Legendary weapons without any single USD/EUR paid. You just come do dailies and that's it (this calculation doesn't include any random lucky drops like asura ember or so).

Im fine with that yes. Lets say for 1,xk or 2,xk you get a 100 percent successrate.

 

Ok mb i did not make myself clear or you just read money = gold and did not think anymore.

 

The other guy got a real world lottery as example. So i compared 2 currencys because in my opinion his example was not correct - in the real world this is Money in the world of BnS the counterpart is Gold (i did not mean that you have to exchange one for the other). And btw i also got legendary w/o paying a single piece of money (besides Premium).

[Grimoir]

18 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

Wtf are you talking about.  I never said anything about spendig money. We were discussing currencys in 2 worlds. One is the real world were the currency is $ or € and the other is the fictive world of BnS were the comparable currency is Gold. So either you did not understand or willingly try to cloud your arguments so that ppl have negative feelings because noone likes whales. 

Besides i never spent a single dime besides premium.

What i mean is you mix things up.

 

Money is irl currency

 

In regards to premium stones your currency is combined of materials+ gold. in other words: Irl money = [materials+gold] in game

[Charas Blade]

6 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

The other guy got a real world lottery as example. So i compared 2 currencys because in my opinion his example was not correct - in the real world this is Money in the world of BnS the counterpart is Gold (i did not mean that you have to exchange one for the other). And btw i also got legendary w/o paying a single piece of money (besides Premium).

Srly, it's a game stop adding here real world scenario's or best practices. People really keep forgetting that and to be honest even you example makes absolutely no sense in a any sense, because according to your lottery suppose to give everyone equal amount of money, which eventually makes no sense in lottery as a concept. Life isn't fair deal with it and really stop complaining or find a way though situation your encounter. Because now you look like crying baby on a playground (no personal offences please)

[JatoJato]

19 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

What i mean is you mix things up.

 

Money is irl currency

 

In regards to premium stones your currency is combined of materials+ gold. in other words: Irl money = [materials+gold] in game

And this is were you wrong. Maerials are materials not a currency. Beacuse you get gold trough questing, crafting and selling. The selling is bound to rng witch is ok - a little bit rng does make things more interesting. Materials however you get partially through rng but mostly through farming. Just because they have a value does not make them a currency.

 

11 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

Srly, it's a game stop adding here real world scenario's or best practices. People really keep forgetting that and to be honest even you example makes absolutely no sense in a any sense, because according to your lottery suppose to give everyone equal amount of money, which eventually makes no sense in lottery as a concept. Life isn't fair deal with it and really stop complaining or find a way though situation your encounter. Because now you look like crying baby on a playground (no personal offences please)

Mb you did not read again. I was not the one that mentioned an example from the real world. When did i say a lottery gives anyone an equal amount of money. I just said in a lottery noone cares about if some other guy wins. If however you do the exact same things (besides willingly participate in a rng event/lottery -> ergo for example transmuting or crafting) you want to have the same result. If you farm mats for 5 tries and anohter one farms mats for the same tries if he gets 3 Stones you want to have them too - because yes you invested the same amount of energy than he has - and this is not wrong.

 

Life is not fair yes. But as you said this is a game - so just because life is unfair the game has not to be unfair too.

 

I offer my opinion with reasonable explanation - so if thats the definition of crying you either have no arguments or do not want to get into a discussion.

[Charas Blade]

41 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

Life is not fair yes. But as you said this is a game - so just because life is unfair the game has not to be unfair too.

You can't make game which will be fair for everyone in a first place, you think it's fair model. I think it's not and I like game as it is now, while someone else thinks we need even more RNG.  

[MoeGod]

I'm laughing at people who are supporting rng in a game xD
So tell me, what's your arguments and reasons why rng is good?
Please be a reasonable adult and have a proper answer, not some bullshit like "I like it because I like it"

[Grimstar]

A legendary is something u'll eventually need/want to progress, it's not something unique, since most end game players have it. 

I'm a casual player, like 2-3h a day, and this RNG system shouldnt exist for progressing your gear. I dont want to work 2-3 weeks to be able to try a craft, simply to fail. It costs enough anyway.

I'm at s3 atm, i failed 8 psts in a row, and i said to myself to never try this again. Now i simply save up money to buy it (400g atm, bought my first stones for 700g ea). I'm not saying it should be made easy, but someone who grinded for 2 weeks can have luck and succeed 4 stones in a row, while someone else worked for 2 months and failed them all, thats just not fair.

[JatoJato]

10 minutes ago, Charas Blade said:

wYou can't make game which will be fair for everyone in a first place, you think it's fair model. I think it's not and I like game as it is now, while someone else thinks we need even more RNG.  

Yeah well everyone has his opinion. But i think rng might be exiting and stuff - but fair it is not. 

 

Also i know that i am not kapable of creating a perfect game -but i am trying to do my best to improve this one. And personally i think that rng is the thing that annoys players the most - besides infrastructural problem like bad servers. And yes some wishes for more rng - but those are often the players that have eiter much more time than other, get luckier or are used to rng because the played games that had even more rng ;-).