Tier list in arena right now?

[Brainy]

Player with low ping (any class) > player with high ping / lag spikes (any class). Or whoever desyncs less. This sums up my arena experience till now.

[N3ro]

17 hours ago, Shiune said:

Even i completely disagree with your tier list I have to agree with you on the SIN vs WL matchup. 

SIN is definitely not favored in this one. 

Even Ryuki is loosing alot against WLs if you watch his streams. 

I also struggle very much against them (if they know how to play ofc). 

 

The general "how good is x class" is a bit flawed for sure. I mean i don´t really have too much faith in it either. Thing is i just 99% of the time play assassin and assassin only, because i´m too lazy to level up and then play other classes extensively enough to actually have a viable opinion about the matchups from their perspective. I can pretty much just theory craft about how class x would do against class y, a lot of the time. But i´m pretty sure most people right now cannot make a complete matchup list for every single class, like the one i put there for sin vs any class.

 

Like i get it some may disagree on where i put warlocks, some might disagree on where i put bd and some even might disagree on where i put bm (in the sin specific matchup thing).

The bm matchup is sin favored pretty heavily i think, but it´s one of the matchups that changes INSANELY MUCH based on how good the bm is. Playing against a good and a bad bm is like night and day. The bad bm you can just faceroll over your keyboard and win, while against the good bm there are a lot of plays that you would possibly do against noobs that would get you killed. Like when you´re out of stealth for instance, doing ss > f > block break, or sneak attacking them will not work unless you baited their q prior to this, because they can and will just spam q and they dodge abilities with it that target their back (provided they have a target so this will not work if you´re stealthed). And there are more things just like that that you can and have to play around against a good bm, that just don´t matter at all against bms that s*ck. HM pull is really really strong though, so that might make it kind of a 50:50 matchup. The thing is also bms making mistakes in that matchup makes them pretty much loose the game on the spot. They have to play absolutely flawlessly to have a chance against a good sins (like ryuki good sins). The other way around this does not appear to be nearly as bad (when sins are making mistakes). And even hm pull is dodgeable and has 1mins cooldown so dunno. We´ll see how it turns out to be in practice.

 

Kfms also get rising dragon hm pull somewhen. I think kfms are pretty bad (dunno if they are the worst, but i just put them there to see if someone would instantly agree or not) because their best matchup isn´t actually one of the best classes and they do not crush any of the top classes imo. Like they should be really good against bd and ok against destro (but that matchup seems to actually be really really hard still even though a perfectly played kfm should probably win still) and probably alright against fms too (dunno about that one could go either way), but then they get absolutely destroyed by assassins and also loose to bms and both classes you will face A LOT when you want to reach the top of the ladder. But what you stop meeting regularly once you reach a certain rank is guess what, summoners. But still, REALLY GOOD CLASS DESIGN NCSOFT! I mean i can farm them (freeelo) and they farm summoners for me. What more do i want? rofl

[PhiKing]

On 6/2/2016 at 2:27 AM, Shiune said:

Even i completely disagree with your tier list I have to agree with you on the SIN vs WL matchup. 

SIN is definitely not favored in this one. 

Even Ryuki is loosing alot against WLs if you watch his streams. 

I also struggle very much against them (if they know how to play ofc). 

 

Any Sin who knows how to pve has a huge advantage vs WL. The only reason some sins would struggle vs WL is because they don't want to be an ass and spam invis while RMB + F, since it's such a dumb way to win.  Lotus allows you to teleport across the map, you have skills that let you create huge amounts of distance while ALL of WL's skills require a nearby range. If you're playing on the big map, you have even more of an advantage to run away and dodge WL's skills. 

 

There's literally only two (very long CD) skills that can get sins out of stealth, and unlike summoner's we can't spam E, so by timing ice bomb and pressing rmb F you can win effortlessly. Sanctum doesn't count because it's long cd and extremely ineffective at unstealthing any person with a brain. Not to mention the ability to proc free stealth on thrall, 100% guaranteed when WL is netted, and the 50% evade chance sins have in stealth, where if a WL is skilled enough to aim at a moving, speed boosted invisible target, they still have to fight against a huge RNG.

 

And on the topic of LBDs, for some reason, destroyers and WLs are the only classes without grab breaks, so LBDs totally counter those classes with their insane resists and 24 second CD grab which can be held for a full 6 seconds; that's completely insane against classes without a way to break out of the grab. Being able to drop combo and or stall for 6 seconds every 24 seconds is ridiculous.

[N3ro]

15 hours ago, PhiKing said:

Any Sin who knows how to pve has a huge advantage vs WL. The only reason some sins would struggle vs WL is because they don't want to be an ass and spam invis while RMB + F, since it's such a dumb way to win.  Lotus allows you to teleport across the map, you have skills that let you create huge amounts of distance while ALL of WL's skills require a nearby range. If you're playing on the big map, you have even more of an advantage to run away and dodge WL's skills. 

 

There's literally only two (very long CD) skills that can get sins out of stealth, and unlike summoner's we can't spam E, so by timing ice bomb and pressing rmb F you can win effortlessly. Sanctum doesn't count because it's long cd and extremely ineffective at unstealthing any person with a brain. Not to mention the ability to proc free stealth on thrall, 100% guaranteed when WL is netted, and the 50% evade chance sins have in stealth, where if a WL is skilled enough to aim at a moving, speed boosted invisible target, they still have to fight against a huge RNG.

 

And on the topic of LBDs, for some reason, destroyers and WLs are the only classes without grab breaks, so LBDs totally counter those classes with their insane resists and 24 second CD grab which can be held for a full 6 seconds; that's completely insane against classes without a way to break out of the grab. Being able to drop combo and or stall for 6 seconds every 24 seconds is ridiculous.

'Just pve them' is not even working against decent warlocks, there are moments when you can pve them and where it´s the best thing to do, but you need to do some work prior to that. You basically need to bait bastion and you need to bait their untargetable circle. Bastion has 36 sec cd the circle 1min. Btw the circle also removes stealth so there you have another way. And then you pretty much NEED to have poison moths on them, otherwise they will get you out of stealth as soon as they block one hit and some button pops up on their screen. Well, ok i guess that´s not really a thing, because then they have to use the other tree that does not allow them to use the other skill that they can just use on block. Most tend to use the skill that does not require a successful block, but has higher cd. I´ve seen the other one too.

Then usually the warlock WILL win the opener, because even if you use x stealth, then they still have their block skill with 36sek cd that makes them immune to everything and pretty much hits you whereever you are. Even when they cast it in front of them and you´re behind. And your wingstorm has so much f*cking range and does 3 hits. You know how far you have to run away to get away from that? 16m is actually A LOT!

 

RNGevade is stupid, but it´s btw in YOUR FAVOR, because it´s not 50% evade it´s +50% evade to your base evasion. And the 'skill' involved into aiming wingstorm and that block skill is practically zero, because it hits everything, everywhere anyway.

 

Then you also got your e with 6 seconds cooldown that calls your pet and takes us out of stealth. Then you also have time distortion, witch makes you be a legit god in arena, you can´t do anything at all against it, even if you wanted, because you then use bastion like 3 times and are immune to everything and can spam all your skills like a retard and wether they hit or miss does not even matter...

I´ve seen other decent warlocks using obliterate. And its also not terrible. It stuns, it does a TONS of damage (basically allows them to 100-0 combo sins when they don´t have tab) and it takes the sin out of stealth as well. Seemed more of an experimental thing though. Decent warlocks pretty much ALWAYS use time distortion, SOME use obliterate sometimes. I´ve never seen anyone who didn´t s*ck with soulburn for a long long time. But obliterate is probably worth a consideration as it has only 24 seconds cooldown opposed to 3minutes on time distortion.

 

And you ss right tree should also take away our stealth on root, with 9 seconds cooldown.

 

And then you can hide inside your pet so we literally can´t target you half of the time your pet is up. That´s like the most stupid thing EVER...

 

Like, idk what to tell you. I was trying to just pve them and i honestly could not care less about this being a retarded way to win as i just hate the matchup and when i could faceroll warlocks like this, then i would probably do that most of the time... but it´s not working unless you did some serious work before that to bait out x y z skill and probably also have their pet down and have moths on them. But go on make it work against any of the warlock who are not sh*t, meaning like top10´ish warlock. It´s just such an annoying matchup, so often your options are like #1 run away #2 suicide. At least give us #3 yolotard. But there is no #3 yolotard you *NEED* to stall so often and i f*cking hate it!

[PhiKing]

@N3ro I'm a top 5 warlock, I've fought nearly every  sin in server with over 1k games lol. You can just start match off with inv frame to avoid losing opener, there's no consequence of starting the match stealthed and sacrificing one invuln frame. The WL has to use their own INV frames when you do, or else they'll get swapped or stunned.  I already said I knew the circle removed stealth, but if you know how important the circle is, and how it works, its unrealistic to get a sin out of stealth with it, it's not instant cast.

 

RNG evade is not in OUR favor because it shouldn't even exist at all. To even have it, even at a 20% chance, is an advantage for this sin. Our E is six seconds, I already said that, that's not spammable like summoners, and you can also avoid the E because it's not an instant cast. Further, we have to use the E just to stop our pets from attacking. That means after we E, our pet or us is vulnerable to being PvE'd for a full six seconds. 

 

And time distortion? You shouldn't be trying to kill a WL using time warp, you should be running away with your lotus which you can position on the other half of the map and simply wait 5 seconds because a WL has to stay in a small area to get resets... 

[GodofWrath]

If you want to make some kind of tier list, I'd say look at the class rankings like what's the 50th BM's points, 50th WL's points and so on. That pretty much shows the tier list.

[Mysaria]

Hey Guys, 

I'm Tenah one of the 2 Diamond Warlocks. I saw that there is a lot of discussion about Warlock so I'm gonna give my 2 cents to it. Warlock is atleast a weak class to be honest. Reaching the Top Tiers doesnt mean you have easy way. I mean i queued from 2050 to 2104 against one and the same guy and grinded him. I guess I can speak for Kibi aswell as its more lucky with the match ups to reach diamond right now than with ur actuall skill. 

 

Greets Tenah

[Mysaria]

Well y I'd like to have a attack/not attack function on thrall and maybe some q e skills when we dont have the pet called cuz the defense of wl is so broken we have like bastion and what else? a block that can gets broken by every class? idk why ppl cry about warlocks block its more shine that its good than it acutally is. and y warlock is a real hard class as u have to counter break by urself so no skill shows u the enemy is countering right now and the aerials aswell u need to do them by urself. I'm always getting a laugh when ppl write me im playing a ez retard class. 

[LockEasymeef]

4 hours ago, Mysaria said:

Hey Guys, 

I'm Tenah one of the 2 Diamond Warlocks. I saw that there is a lot of discussion about Warlock so I'm gonna give my 2 cents to it. Warlock is atleast a weak class to be honest. Reaching the Top Tiers doesnt mean you have easy way. I mean i queued from 2050 to 2104 against one and the same guy and grinded him. I guess I can speak for Kibi aswell as its more lucky with the match ups to reach diamond right now than with ur actuall skill. 

 

Greets Tenah

Thank you for pointing that out, Tenah.

 

Actually, I'd be very curious what you think should be changed about the warlock class.

 

One thing I absolutely want to see changed is the way our pet attacks... it just triggers EVERY counter and it's so hard to keep it from attacking at times (e.g after fall in it still starts attacking the frozen fm in veil even though I didn't do anything)

And our self healing... pretty much any class has acess to better self healing than we do.

[LockEasymeef]

5 minutes ago, Mysaria said:

Well y I'd like to have a attack/not attack function on thrall and maybe some q e skills when we dont have the pet called cuz the defense of wl is so broken we have like bastion and what else? a block that can gets broken by every class? idk why ppl cry about warlocks block its more shine that its good than it acutally is. and y warlock is a real hard class as u have to counter break by urself so no skill shows u the enemy is countering right now and the aerials aswell u need to do them by urself. I'm always getting a laugh when ppl write me im playing a ez retard class. 

oh sorry :D you actually posted right before I did

[azraelkun]

Ok about top rank ppl u realize that they are the same pro ppl right?

Imperial network n sluckers have the best players (sins =VILE n some others i dont recall now)

Those ppl worked hard to be every season top rank not like me the lazy that dont watch enemies skills hehehe.

If ur good ur good class dont matter 

Ps u cant go very far if u get spikes to 300 ms

Ping is very important factor

For example sin vs sin im sitting n spam Q to counter other sin 3 restealth but no luck but he can Q mine hehe

[Zerecas]

8 hours ago, azraelkun said:

Ok about top rank ppl u realize that they are the same pro ppl right?

Imperial network n sluckers have the best players (sins =VILE n some others i dont recall now)

Those ppl worked hard to be every season top rank not like me the lazy that dont watch enemies skills hehehe.

If ur good ur good class dont matter 

Ps u cant go very far if u get spikes to 300 ms

Ping is very important factor

For example sin vs sin im sitting n spam Q to counter other sin 3 restealth but no luck but he can Q mine hehe

Actually, top players are top ranked for a reason. So, the comparison will still work because its top vs top.