Tier list in arena right now?

[Tekare]

What is your ranking of the classes?

[Talinoth]

I'm not hugely experienced OR qualified to make something like a tier list, but here's what I see so far -

 

1- Assassin is probably the strongest right now. Most of the top 10-50 players are assassins, and they excel both at low and high levels of the game. Against new/high-ping/bad players they can pop blue buff and rush the enemy down, and at higher levels they can utilise their excellent Tab escape, Escape Lotus and speed in stealth to execute highly damaging combos while being very fast and slippery.

Skilled assassins have almost countless ways to return to stealth, which gives them 50% evasion and very fast movement speed. With the arenas current desync/frame-skipping issues, actually hitting an assassin out of stealth is a cause for celebration.

They're mainly countered by Summoners and occasionally by very, very good Force Masters (otherwise Force Masters lose badly as well). With HM Decoy they can even rip summoners apart.

 

2- Destroyers need to be given more credit. Their tech chase game is absolutely brutal, accidentally hit into one deflect spin or fail to dodge an axe throw and you will very quickly begin to have a bad time. While Fury destroyers are only really good at bursting bad players 90% of the time, Destros that run Persistence essentially gain a second escape and become even harder to lock down. Their weakness is that their neutral game is pretty weak - if they're not attacking you or preparing to attack you they're probably losing.

It takes a surprising amount of skill to play and not get knocked down/get your spin disabled by a Force Master, but they are very strong and are a good answer to the other strong classes including Summoner and Assassin.

 

3- Summoners are an obvious pick. They have a wide variety of escapes and get-out-of-jail-free tools, are very hard to hit (with the constant threat of hitting into Seed Shroud) and can use Petal Storm (missile protection) and True Friend (5 second resist), which gives them some of the best defensive abilities in the game. Extra credit goes to the cat, who will prevent you from ever grabbing the summoner, using aerial combos, or using any combo that lasts more than 3 or so seconds because the cat can and will knock you down.

Their offensive game is similarly powerful - cat grapple can be used every 18 seconds while your only option of escaping it, your Tab escape, is on a 36 second cooldown.

If you get grappled twice in a row, you will die to the Summoner's Sunflower spam. This is not helped by the fact that Summoners have a wide selection of snares and slows to allow their cat to catch up.

Their main attack skill Sunflower has a 2x16 range and hits hard, but is a real focus hog and they can't spam it unless they hit you with it 5 times in a row. You shouldn't let that happen.

Summoners are pretty subpar if their cat gets knocked out of the fight (usually in a 100-0 combo) but the cat can be made invulnerable for a 9 second period with a 12 second cooldown, and if you try to burst down the cat without using stuns the Summoner can pull the cat straight back to safety.

Despite all the mean things I've said about Summoner, they do have weaknesses and they'll become less powerful as the game matures.

 

OTHER CLASSES -

4- KFM

5- BD

6- FM

7- BM

8- Warlock

 

PS - A tier list is only of limited use. I'm an FM and I've had my ass kicked by really good warlocks before.

[Avalyn]

I really fail to see how Warlock is considered weak at all.

 

They hardly have to set anything up. A huge chunk of their damage is just ground-based AoE's that are impossible to defend against unless you have tons of iframe or stealth to run away. Their PvE'ing game in arena is even worse than assassin.

 

As I understand it not even spin to win will break the immobilize effects and they have nearly as many stuns as an FM. Their tab escape looks EXACTLY THE SAME as their F-roll, making it nearly impossible to judge when you can combo. They can use their tab on a daze and trick you into thinking it's safe to use dazes in your combo. The tech chase isn't impossible, but because the animation is so different from other classes they have quite the advantage. They can set up their thrall to 2nd tab escape position swap across the entire arena, buying them about as much time as an assassin's stealth as they rotate their 2 escapes. They have a CC immunity octagon and can even spec for detarget. Their iframe has practically non-existent CD. The average Warlock spams their block more than any BM/KFM I've ever seen.

 

The only time a Warlock is truly vulnerable is when they have no thrall for ~10 seconds. This is easily covered by their CC immunity octagon and/or iframes and means you have to be able to burn all their escapes while they had their thrall up. Only a warlock who messes up very hard will ever lose to anyone other than an assassin or FM.

[Shuchin]

At least in the low rankings where I do arena, warlocks stand little chance against my KFM.

I usually win against all FMs, summoners, warlocks. I often lose against SIN, BD, destroyer. BM it's 50/50.

[Talinoth]

Maybe Warlocks ARE stronger than I've given them credit for. I'm probably biased against them because I play a class that counters them handily.

 

Same for Blade Dancers I suppose. When I looked at the top ranked players, the #1 in NA is a Blade Dancer and there's quite a few of them - I usually don't pay much attention to Blade Dancers because I can usually just spam Frost Tornado and Frost Fury until they cry.

 

EDIT - On the topic of warlocks, their cc IS annoying as *cricket* and they do have a lot of damage to back it up, but they run out of escapes really fast and they're actually really easy to tech chase.

Warlocks that run Soulburn are almost always dead meat, and I can still stun chain them even when they use it. Using Bastion again makes me pause for thought, but then I usually just use Frost Sheath or Ice Armor to wait out their 5 second resist.

Warlocks that run TIME DISTORTION though - they're a rare breed, but they're f***ing scary. Nothing like being hit by Dragoncall/Dragonhelix 4 or 5 times in a row while being knocked up and down repeatedly by the Thrall.

 

For the most part though, Warlock looks really hard to play, and doesn't seem to make for a good overall pvp experience when there are so many Blade Dancers and Force Masters around.

And KFMs, who I assume can easily score Max Agility from just the Thrall attacking them while they sidestep.

[Mythic]

 

Yea.. sin OP lol  n u have LBD at 5?  ha

[Symex]

U know that that is 4 times the same bd?

[FinJen Shy]

1 hour ago, Symex said:

U know that that is 4 times the same bd?

Maybe, but it's a typical answer whenever someone shows that a class is highly represented in the top5 or 10

But hey if it's true, that guy got too much spare time...

[Miroki]

26 minutes ago, FinJen Shy said:

Maybe, but it's a typical answer whenever someone shows that a class is highly represented in the top5 or 10

But hey if it's true, that guy got too much spare time...

 

If you look at these screenshots, you will notice that the only BD on EU is miles ahead of the other ones.

And i will show you the the Top10-All, too:

https://gyazo.com/224b00047ea81844f3ccca6ef5674dd8
https://gyazo.com/d00af42b41224017f884e1a88007afb6

 

There you go with your weird asumption of how great BD is right now. Does one BD with 100+ points distance to the next in ranking mean that BD is a great, easy and a dominant PvP-class? No. That just means that one person is really good at it. It does work the other way around: Maybe the other BD are just too bad and can not use the classes full potential? But then you need to ask why there are other classes represented way more often in the Top 30s.

The best classes in hightier right now are probably SIN / KFM / FM. Although you can not really state which class is the best, I guess. For example: BD is supposed to win pretty much all the time against SINs if I'm not mistaken. This is kinda hard to manage for MOST players though, which means SINs will still win very often in PvP these days, even against their alleged counters. At least, that is my view. And of course, that derives from my own perspective and skill against other classes. I bet that most of us will have several classes they can deal better with than others, which also is an impact on which class you should chose to pick.

Btw, I think FM has no natural counter, which probably makes it the best class to play right now.

[Talinoth]

FM has counters, what are you on about?

 

Blade Master is a very bad matchup for Force Master, especially if you don't have Hongmoon Impact (melee counter). BM can break out of Phantom Grip without using their Tab escape, and Snowball (6s defence break,  36s cd projectile) is a notoriously unreliable skill that can be countered by a Q/E dash, SS, Warding Spirit, or even just dropping the block and letting the projectile harmlessly hit them.

The Force Master must very carefully time their dashes and freezes to dodge Flicker stun and i-frame Five Point Strike, while Firestorm (18 second cd Tab counter) only counters for 0.5 seconds and is very risky to use - many BMs will have their attack deflected, deliberately use their Tab escape to daze, and then tech chase into an aerial combo and use HM Lightning Draw as the FM falls to the ground, before the FM has a chance to use Tab or SS.

 

The only times a Blade Master is ever really vulnerable at all to a Force Master are when;

1 - SS is down (8 sec cd)

2 - Tab is down (they used Tab daze earlier for a combo, or you used Phantom Grip two times in a row and you're not dead yet)

3 - Warding Spirit is down (not only can the FM not damage the BM for 10 seconds, the BM can move while frozen when this ability is active. If it's in use, I'm just a walking target waiting to die.)

4 - BM throws Z grappling hook, and FM counters it by i-framing with a dash/Divine Veil and using ice beam (LMB-RMB-3) to hit the BM while their block is down. FM can then LMB-RMB-4, 4 again, then RMB-LMB-1 and follow with an aerial combo if the BM's Tab is down.

 

If Tab AND their secondary grab break are down, the FM does have a relatively easy option that starts from Phantom Grip;

Phantom Grip (4) -> Dragonfrost (F with 3 frost orbits) -> RMB-LMB-1 -> RMB-LMB-Tab -> Z -> 4 - (wait 2 seconds) -> 1 -> RMB-LMB-C -> F spam -> 2 (Dragonchar tech chase after they backflip) -> RMB-LMB-3 -> RMB-LMB-1 -> RMB-LMB-1 -> RMB-LMB-X, then throw in Meteor Shower somewhere for good measure.

 

You can also try tech chasing from a Tab daze (Tab daze is required for this matchup) and then doing a similar double aerial combo from that, starting from a Dragonchar tech chase into a double aerial, but the timing on that is way harder and I'm not Jaesung.

 

---

 

KFM is an even or favourable matchup for the enterprising Force Master, but only with HM Impact for melee counter. Without HM Impact, dashes needed to dodge/escape critical cc instead have to be used to dodge the KFM's Tab slam or their 16m range flying kick, rendering us vulnerable to attack and also hindering our ability to get around KFM counter.

 

KFMs also get Max Agility for free just by sidestepping inside Divine Veil, and the free resist procs mean I've got to save a dash to dodge the triple kick stun so I don't get wombo comboed.

 

---

 

Assassins can get shit on by great Force Masters, but only if the Force Master has very low ping, and again, HM Impact helps considerably. Playing with 200ms ping, I have to aim at least 4-5m ahead of the Assassin to hit them with Impact to break them out of stealth - it's very disconcerting.

It's also a lot of work to patiently flush out every single one of an Assassin's escapes.  At the same time, they will relentlessly circle you searching for any minor mistake and it's trivial to deal 50-80% of your health in one combo and then disappear into stealth again - I do it all the time on my alt.

 

I personally find the Assassin vs FM matchup much easier than the FM vs Assassin matchup.

 

You should always take Escape Lotus and 10s stealth Smoke Cloud against FM (missile deflect Smoke Cloud is risky as fk because they can Phantom grip you out of it), and deny them the opportunity to cast any ice spells at all - if they can't sling Frost Fury or stun you with Glacial Beam, they also won't get a Frost Orbit, which allows you to attack them with impunity.

If they use stationary Divine Veil (blue bubble missile shield) just stay away from them for 15 seconds and chill out on the other side of the arena. If they use moving version you have a problem for a little while - it's hard to see and you might accidentally try to Tab switch them or X (Throwing Dagger) them - but just try to play it safe for a little bit, or try to go for a melee stun with Spinal Tab or your stealth 4, the lightning sweep.

Make the most of every combo opportunity. You deserve to lose if you're not extending your combos with Close Shave -> Hook Kick -> Spinal Tap -> LMB+RMB spam -> C (the lightning kick stun) -> Close Shave -> SS -> Tab switch, and other tricks like it.

 

Hold onto your Decoy (2) and make the FM second-guess every single attack he makes. If you see a projectile incoming from more than 10m, you have more than enough time to hit 2 and get free stealth.

 

Treat FM's Tab Daze with a little bit of respect and try to avoid getting hit by it when your own Tab is down, otherwise you'll probably get double aerialled and curse the world that you were ever born.

 

Play for time and you should win almost every match. Play for the kill, and there's a good chance you'll wind up dead instead.

[Melodia]

This game's PVP has zero balance so why should there be a tier list? If this game's PVP has 10% the balance of Street Fighter IV/V then it wouldn't be as shitty as it is right now.

Just play a summoner or warlock and faceroll. Guaranteed to win 95% of all matches against any other class.

So *cricket*ing tired of being paired up with these classes. Insane damage, infinite stun loop AND can summon shit. What kind of drunkard came up with this design? I know no other game where summoners are able to stunlock people AND do insane damage.

 

[Talinoth]

Wait, Warlocks faceroll people now? Win 95% of matches against other classes?

0.0

 

Really? It looks very hard. Are you sure the ones who you played against weren't just really really good?

 

I agree that playing against summoner is much harder than playing it yourself though.

[Zerecas]

Miroki, all I see are melees took most of the top spot, common trait in NA and EU. Solid hard fact.

[Cololizard]

I'd probably place BD as number 1. They have so many long iframes that they can do basically everything that an Assassin can do, instead of being in stealth they are just completely invincible during that time. Their aerial combo is stupid powerful and requires no setup, and can easily deal 25% of your hp (I've had games where I dominated but lost from nothing but 4 aerials). Oh, and that combo also leads into a 100-0, which can be started before you hit the ground and have a chance to escape, forcing you to blow tab, which can be followed up with another aerial into another grab where you can't tab and are forced to die. Blowing their tab is also meaningless, they have enough iframes and their aerial takes long enough to easily buy time for it to come back up.

 

Number 2 would probably be summoner, unless you take the cat out of the fight (impossible if the summoner isn't braindead), there isn't much you can do. They are impossible to combo, their cat can be controlled while stunned and just cc you back, which is basically the most broken thing in the game. So, why not just chip their hp down over time? They can heal off all your damage easily unless it is a big combo, and even then they can heal most of combo damage off before you are able to set up another one. The class if just made to be easy, it has the lowest difficulty rating for a reason, but it doesn't have a smaller reward for playing it like an easy class should, low risk high reward, essentially. They also have a stealth tab and a stealth counter that they can spam, for really no reason at all. Even if they don't force you to tab out of a cat grab, they can have the cat knock up up and combo you while they spam skills as if you had blown your tab. Speaking of tab, even if you have it it might not matter because they have a bug that prevents you from using your tab during a cat grab. Anyone can win with this class even with no knowledge of other classes or really any brain power at all.

 

Assassin would probably be 3, the reason I wouldn't put it higher is because the other 2 classes here can just do a a better version of the assassin's main gimmick. However assassin has no long iframes like they do, the only one they have also can only be taken if they sacrifice one of their stuns. Their tab is among the best in the game, but just having a powerful tab doesn't push them ahead of the other 2 classes.

 

From there I won't go in-depth and is harder to place in a specific order for me, but I would rank them:

4- Warlock (massive damage, tons of iframes, thrall does a lot of the work for you)

5- Destroyer (probably the best and easist 100-0 in the game)

6- KFM (hard to master, easy to macro with and get an instant win just by blowing their tab)

7- Force Master (very easy to play but not the same payout as summoner)

8- Blade Master

[Shiune]

4 hours ago, Talinoth said:

-snip-

Although I don't agree with anything you made some good and true points there. 

But as a main Assassin with an alt FM the matchup FM vs assassin is easier than the assassin vs FM matchup imo. 

Playing for time usually don't work as an assassin vs good FMs and the better tactic is to get both of their escapes down which is surprisingly easy actually if you have a good starter. However if your starter fails and he lands the first hits it's pretty much done already. 

FMs are the most annoying matchup (next to BDs) for me and if I play on my FM then sin is my favorite matchup. 

[Shiune]

2 hours ago, Melodia said:

This game's PVP has zero balance so why should there be a tier list? If this game's PVP has 10% the balance of Street Fighter IV/V then it wouldn't be as shitty as it is right now.

Just play a summoner or warlock and faceroll. Guaranteed to win 95% of all matches against any other class.

So *cricket*ing tired of being paired up with these classes. Insane damage, infinite stun loop AND can summon shit. What kind of drunkard came up with this design? I know no other game where summoners are able to stunlock people AND do insane damage.

 

You know nothing. 

[Shiune]

1 hour ago, Cololizard said:

I'd probably place BD as number 1. They have so many long iframes that they can do basically everything that an Assassin can do, instead of being in stealth they are just completely invincible during that time. Their aerial combo is stupid powerful and requires no setup, and can easily deal 25% of your hp (I've had games where I dominated but lost from nothing but 4 aerials). Oh, and that combo also leads into a 100-0, which can be started before you hit the ground and have a chance to escape, forcing you to blow tab, which can be followed up with another aerial into another grab where you can't tab and are forced to die. Blowing their tab is also meaningless, they have enough iframes and their aerial takes long enough to easily buy time for it to come back up.

 

Number 2 would probably be summoner, unless you take the cat out of the fight (impossible if the summoner isn't braindead), there isn't much you can do. They are impossible to combo, their cat can be controlled while stunned and just cc you back, which is basically the most broken thing in the game. So, why not just chip their hp down over time? They can heal off all your damage easily unless it is a big combo, and even then they can heal most of combo damage off before you are able to set up another one. The class if just made to be easy, it has the lowest difficulty rating for a reason, but it doesn't have a smaller reward for playing it like an easy class should, low risk high reward, essentially. They also have a stealth tab and a stealth counter that they can spam, for really no reason at all. Even if they don't force you to tab out of a cat grab, they can have the cat knock up up and combo you while they spam skills as if you had blown your tab. Speaking of tab, even if you have it it might not matter because they have a bug that prevents you from using your tab during a cat grab. Anyone can win with this class even with no knowledge of other classes or really any brain power at all.

 

Assassin would probably be 3, the reason I wouldn't put it higher is because the other 2 classes here can just do a a better version of the assassin's main gimmick. However assassin has no long iframes like they do, the only one they have also can only be taken if they sacrifice one of their stuns. Their tab is among the best in the game, but just having a powerful tab doesn't push them ahead of the other 2 classes.

 

From there I won't go in-depth and is harder to place in a specific order for me, but I would rank them:

4- Warlock (massive damage, tons of iframes, thrall does a lot of the work for you)

5- Destroyer (probably the best and easist 100-0 in the game)

6- KFM (hard to master, easy to macro with and get an instant win just by blowing their tab)

7- Force Master (very easy to play but not the same payout as summoner)

8- Blade Master

Ok with 1 I do agree with you - BD is on top for me simply because they don't have any very bad matchups. 

 

With 2 I completely disagree. 

Summoners have very much bad matchups like KFM, Destroyers, good BDs, FMs and even SINs can shit on them. 

They are basically gods in the lower ratings but are not really strong in the higher ones (where ppl have HM skills). 

They do however shit on BMs. 

 

SINs are definitely top tier but they have very much difficult matchups.

Pretty much everyone can make them suffer except KFMs.

Though they also do very well in the same time against most classes if you know how to play and that's why they are top tier . 

 

I'd say pretty much every class is fairly balanced with HM skills. 

And with the HM Z pull BMs will get so damn scary (they are now very strong already) that I'll rate them on top. 

 

If i must write a list it would look like that:

 

1: SIN, BD, BM

2. Destroyer, FM, KFM

3. summoner, WL 

 

Note that the difference between 1-3 is very, very small and only my pov. 

 

The game is more balanced as most guys think - but the requirement for it are HM skills and HM levels. 

 

[Altheatheia]

Warlocks are the weakest low tier in Arena ATM, they lack so much so so so much
And the guy who said they have tons of iframes- WHAT?!!!! tons of what?!! WLs?!!! are you sure lol...

Check the ranks over all in both EU and NA.

EU has two Warlocks on the top, while the rest are all other classes, which means WLs is a low tier, pretty bad, and those two Warlocks are pros, not casual players.

Since NA has most KR, China and other players we watch on youtube play on NA, WLs has no place in the rank, because they are easily countered, their escapes are so so bad..

pretty much Mushin and Poharan servers have many KR,JP,Chinese players who are insane in pvp, and no one plays a WL because they know it SUCKS..

[Shiune]

10 minutes ago, Hamoud said:

Warlocks are the weakest low tier in Arena ATM, they lack so much so so so much
And the guy who said they have tons of iframes- WHAT?!!!! tons of what?!! WLs?!!! are you sure lol...

Check the ranks over all in both EU and NA.

EU has two Warlocks on the top, while the rest are all other classes, which means WLs is a low tier, pretty bad, and those two Warlocks are pros, not casual players.

Since NA has most KR, China and other players we watch on youtube play on NA, WLs has no place in the rank, because they are easily countered, their escapes are so so bad..

pretty much Mushin and Poharan servers have many KR,JP,Chinese players who are insane in pvp, and no one plays a WL because they know it SUCKS..

If NA has so much KR, CN pros I wonder where they all are in the rankings? 

The really good KR players I know definetly don't play on NA but in KR lol. 

 

I also do know that NA doesn't have any good BMs while EU has tons of them. 

So it could be perfectly possible that they simply have no good WLs too or not? 

 

They do however have very good SINs - probably the only class where they have better players than EU (except for Ryuki). 

 

[breadANDbutter]

Quote

1 hour ago, Hamoud said:

Warlocks are the weakest low tier in Arena ATM, they lack so much so so so much
And the guy who said they have tons of iframes- WHAT?!!!! tons of what?!! WLs?!!! are you sure lol...

Check the ranks over all in both EU and NA.

EU has two Warlocks on the top, while the rest are all other classes, which means WLs is a low tier, pretty bad, and those two Warlocks are pros, not casual players.

Since NA has most KR, China and other players we watch on youtube play on NA, WLs has no place in the rank, because they are easily countered, their escapes are so so bad..

pretty much Mushin and Poharan servers have many KR,JP,Chinese players who are insane in pvp, and no one plays a WL because they know it SUCKS..

 

having 2 WL in top 10 eu list says a lot actually... if its really weak... then there's wouldnt be even 1 in top 50.

 

i would say the classes in pvp is quite balanced and what makes it feel unbalanced is mainly the skills required to master and execute the class properly and the other thing is the ping...

 

i main a bm and stuck at edge of silver-gold with hm skills unlocked =) yea..im sucks... cos to most ppl out there...bm are op.

then my alt> summoner reach gold at lv 26 within 1 hours fresh in arena and easily wreckt many lv 50 with hms

warlock reach gold at lv 45 

sin reach gold at lv 33 wrecked a number of lv 50s with hms but a bit harder than summoners

bd hit gold ytd at lv 32 also wrecked many lv 50s with hms harder than summoner but easier than sin i would say

yet to test  the other class but i believe the difference between classes is ur skills to master the class well

 

 

[Altheatheia]

9 minutes ago, breadANDbutter said:

having 2 WL in top 10 eu list says a lot actually... if its really weak... then there's wouldnt be even 1 in top 50.

 

i would say the classes in pvp is quite balanced and what makes it feel unbalanced is mainly the skills required to master and execute the class properly and the other thing is the ping...

 

i main a bm and stuck at edge of silver-gold with hm skills unlocked =) yea..im sucks... cos to most ppl out there...bm are op.

then my alt> summoner reach gold at lv 26 within 1 hours fresh in arena and easily wreckt many lv 50 with hms

warlock reach gold at lv 45 

sin reach gold at lv 33 wrecked a number of lv 50s with hms but a bit harder than summoners

bd hit gold ytd at lv 32 also wrecked many lv 50s with hms harder than summoner but easier than sin i would say

yet to test  the other class but i believe the difference between classes is ur skills to master the class well

 

 

Okay two Warlocks are on top, so tell me. how many Blade dancers? How many Summoners? How many BMs? how many Sins?
Ok, go to the next page and count the same.

Not try to offend you, but you're in BnS, two on tops is quiet bad not good ... lol

[breadANDbutter]

well.. maybe u didnt get what i meant.... 2 in top 10 meaning that there's actually players who manage to operate their class to the fullest....if u asking 2 wl in and how many of other classes.. the its a simple maths... 10-2 = 8 more other classes.. which there's isnt any kfm in the list at the latest eu rank.. do u say kfm is bad then??  there're definitely more summoner , bd and sin in even the top 500 list if u insist to check one by one... simply because some class are easier to master and lower skill required to punish players..

what im trying to say here is simple.. rank list is simply affected by the difficulty of the class unless there's like 0 of that particular class representative in top 50 or even top 100...

if someone is so stubborn insisting that the class is so bad... how about asking the question the other way round... why cant the ppl who asked reach the top 10 while another guy playing the same class can do it? simple enough yet the truth> how well did you master the class...thats why class difficulty should be the thing that most should consider rather than how weak is a class

[N3ro]

imo: fm > des > bd > sin > bm > sum > war > kfm

 

You don´t have to agree on everything and i´m kind of too lazy to write detailed reasons for all of them now, because that would take really REALLY f*cking long and almost nobody would read it anyway (probably). And i don´t even think my opinions are all too refined right now. 

 

Yes, i do actually think kfm right now is probably the worst class for laddering, if your goal is something like top50 all ranking and even worse in tournaments. They are good against summoners, but that´s it. All the other matchups are either not that amazing, or even absolutely horrible for them.

 

When it comes to matchups vs sin in specific it would look like this imo: fm > war > des > sum > sin > bd > bm > kfm

 

Feels awkward that i even put warlocks as the 2nd hardest class to beat for sins, while some guys here on the forum think (and ingame) that the matchup is sin favored. Anyways, that´s my opinion currently, deal with it, or 'enlighten me'. But i really just don´t get how they would be any bad against sins. And also you have to play so annoying bs builds against them it´s absolutely zero fun at all to fight them, if i´d have to rate how fun matchups are to play for me, then warlocks would blow up the chart as the most annoying piece of sh*t class to fight against *by far*!

[Talinoth]

Well, while Warlocks do have a 16m range ability that can knock assassins out of stealth, it looks like it has a long-ass cooldown and they're kinda screwed if it gets evaded by pure 50/50 chance.

 

Warlocks really do have only 1 real i-frame - Bastion (I read it resists 5 hits for 5 seconds?) - but they can refresh it with Soulburn or Time Distortion, and it's on a base cd of 36s.

 

An assassin can very easily pop Escape Lotus, attack the Warlock, then hit V again if something bad is about to happen. Running away from the Warlock is also one of the main ways to win the game, and Assassins are the absolute best at it.

If you need to run, just SS -> Decoy (you already unlocked Lightning Stride but do it anyway just in case the WL attacks you and gives you free stealth) -> Lightning Stride -> Shunpo (if you need more distance, otherwise save it).

Warlocks can't kill you if you're out of their targeting range.

 

If a Warlock uses Time Distortion, just wait it out. Attacking the Warlock is suicide while all their cooldowns are refreshing unless you're really gutsy.

 

HM Decoy is nice for this matchup because occasionally you'll get hit by AoE abilities even after successfully going to stealth. HM Decoy's free 2 second i-frame makes this no longer a problem.

 

Take the version of Spinal Tab (stealth LMB) that goes through defense and use Venom Swarm in your opening damage rotation to disable his block. If he Tabs or thrall switches to safety, you can tech chase him with Turning Leaf to continue the combo and he won't be able to block it.

 

Warlocks are also hilariously squishy and have practically no healing abilities - every combo you pull off will hurt, and unlike Force Masters (with whom every time you attack into Ice Armor or Divine Veil you give them free heals, you derp), won't be able to recover from the damage.

 

WL is rather powerful for short windows and then they're just dead meat. They're really vulnerable when their Thrall is down and you can wait that out too.

 

-

 

Finally, you can also get free stealth from their Thrall. The Thrall attacks with ranged hits at a slow, predictable tempo. Just save your Decoy for that and you'll get free stealth.

[Shiune]

14 hours ago, N3ro said:

imo: fm > des > bd > sin > bm > sum > war > kfm

 

You don´t have to agree on everything and i´m kind of too lazy to write detailed reasons for all of them now, because that would take really REALLY f*cking long and almost nobody would read it anyway (probably). And i don´t even think my opinions are all too refined right now. 

 

Yes, i do actually think kfm right now is probably the worst class for laddering, if your goal is something like top50 all ranking and even worse in tournaments. They are good against summoners, but that´s it. All the other matchups are either not that amazing, or even absolutely horrible for them.

 

When it comes to matchups vs sin in specific it would look like this imo: fm > war > des > sum > sin > bd > bm > kfm

 

Feels awkward that i even put warlocks as the 2nd hardest class to beat for sins, while some guys here on the forum think (and ingame) that the matchup is sin favored. Anyways, that´s my opinion currently, deal with it, or 'enlighten me'. But i really just don´t get how they would be any bad against sins. And also you have to play so annoying bs builds against them it´s absolutely zero fun at all to fight them, if i´d have to rate how fun matchups are to play for me, then warlocks would blow up the chart as the most annoying piece of sh*t class to fight against *by far*!

Even i completely disagree with your tier list I have to agree with you on the SIN vs WL matchup. 

SIN is definitely not favored in this one. 

Even Ryuki is loosing alot against WLs if you watch his streams. 

I also struggle very much against them (if they know how to play ofc).