Cyan Hirijikawa

Melee VS ranged classes / disadvantage

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KzE   
14 minutes ago, azraelkun said:

Cause u get moonstones keys n ss the 3/4 most important stuff in game right now .

Everyday with my fm i get 30-38 moonstones there so its very important cause i make money there xd.

I was lucky enough to lvl up fm fast due to my sin spending over 500 gold to help fm gear up.

Now im getting my sins money bk hehe

imho you get more gold spamming asura4, if you have a team

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20 minutes ago, KzE said:

imho you get more gold spamming asura4, if you have a team

Well due to the fact that i dont know this dung i dont bother to go waste my time before learn some mechanics n i sont have time to spare in asura cause i farm sins breeze now since ihave nebula

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Archess   
12 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

Actually from what I am told, Soul Fighter's skills mostly have no threat generation whatsoever, so ranged or not they can't tank at all.

I am not looking to tank anymore for derp groups, there is a limit to how much abuse you can take from those toxic players that know it all.

 

I Joined some groups yesterday and disabled all my threat generating abilities on my KFM and i was still tanking in every dungeon i did without losing agro, so most random groups are really bad at delivering their dps, so threat or no threat, just a pretty good execution of all your skills will make you keep agro, its just not going to be 100% secure at all times.

 

If this game had less a-holes in it, i am sure there would have been allot more tanks around, but they either all jumped on the ranged bandwagon or got fed up to peoples inability to have a single ounce of patience and said *cricket* this and quit.

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Don´t misunderstood, a good BD can survive and contribute to the team. No question there. But ranged have it 100% easier.

Boss and mob kills. I have to run from mob to mob and follow the boss movements which decrease my DPS since for few seconds I need to adjust.

Also I need to avoid certain aoe which ranged does not. For example Lair Of frozen Fang 4M where the boss jumps up and instant kill you or Yeti he jumps but I can´t dps anymore while ranged still hits him in he sky? Ranged just keep dpsing and eating their sandwich avoiding only big aoe´s

 

I have a FM and summoner as alts. I literally click few buttons and spamm few keys and I perform much beter then a skilled BD. because I always DPS while the melee just running around after the boss lol.

Edited by Cyan Hirijikawa

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why is this still discussed? its so clear that melees have big disadvantages vs ranged.... wasnt there a statement that in the asian regions most people play ranged? game is out for few years now... still nothing done

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Tsunakai   
1 hour ago, Cyan Hirijikawa said:

Don´t misunderstood, a good BD can survive and contribute to the team. No question there. But ranged have it 100% easier.

Boss and mob kills. I have to run from mob to mob and follow the boss movements which decrease my DPS since for few seconds I need to adjust.

Also I need to avoid certain aoe which ranged does not. For example Lair Of frozen Fang 4M where the boss jumps up and instant kill you or Yeti he jumps but I can´t dps anymore while ranged still hits him in he sky? Ranged just keep dpsing and eating their sandwich avoiding only big aoe´s

 

I have a FM and summoner as alts. I literally click few buttons and spamm few keys and I perform much beter then a skilled BD. because I always DPS while the melee just running around after the boss lol.

If you can't even manage to learn the attack patterns for the lair bosses then I think this game is not for you. I fight them all in melee range as FM without issue.

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18 minutes ago, Tsunakai said:

If you can't even manage to learn the attack patterns for the lair bosses then I think this game is not for you. I fight them all in melee range as FM without issue.

No need to be such a major d!ck, you wannabe pro. Or are you too busy rubbing your e-genital after middle school is over?

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Tsunakai   
12 minutes ago, Ryuukishi said:

No need to be such a major d!ck, you wannabe pro. Or are you too busy rubbing your e-genital after middle school is over?

I'm average level of skill and can understand the basic concept of boss fights, pretty sure even middle school education isn't required for this.

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33 minutes ago, Tsunakai said:

If you can't even manage to learn the attack patterns for the lair bosses then I think this game is not for you. I fight them all in melee range as FM without issue.

Probably the stupidest comment I have seen on this forum. You have the option to move to range or close, decision is yours. Melee doesn't have that decision, if they do then they lose out on a lot of DPS..

 

Each class should have its own specific Soulshield also the help from your team.

Want me to tank so you don't die? Ok but I want priority on loot and no random bidding

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Tsunakai   
5 minutes ago, Crimsonjrjr said:

Probably the stupidest comment I have seen on this forum. You have the option to move to range or close, decision is yours. Melee doesn't have that decision, if they do then they lose out on a lot of DPS..

 

Each class should have its own specific Soulshield also the help from your team.

Want me to tank so you don't die? Ok but I want priority on loot and no random bidding

Same note if i'm highest dps as an FM and tanking the boss in melee range with fewer defensive skills then I should be entitled to all the loot, the rest of you can have what I don't want.

 

Also As an FM of high atk pwr, you can never be at max range from bosses like Yura. Doesn't matter the tank, he can make a mistake any time, it's human, if he gets KD by Yura same time as I use inferno/meteor/dragons, my threat will spike above his, i'll pull aggro, and if i'm at range, I die. Therefore I remain in melee range, Sure the decision to goto range is mine, and I can choose to die an possibly result in a wipe of the group, but i'd rather this didn't happen. Also By remaining in melee range I keep the boss pretty still, so melee can continue doing good dps, oddly I go out of my way to make life easier for melee when I really don't have to, and here they are still complain on the forums about the same shit I deal with, except i'm doing it as a class the game doesn't intend to be in melee range.

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Tsunakai   
Just now, Crimsonjrjr said:

Yes because when you are the best DPS class in the game, iframes, defensive skills that heal plus a whole lot of abilities to make you pretty much damn invincible, you should have first priorities. Bravo

Our 2 long duration iframes prevent action for that duration(which means doing no damage). The rest are short duration and require exact timing. Veil is only a flat heal, you won't get additional healing against melee bosses since they dont atk from range(cept asura but that's a mechanic). ice tab heal is on too long a cooldown to spam for a heal, and sure I can use frost fury, but that's a significan't dps loss, and only used for emergencies.

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Tsunakai   

Hell I remember seeing a video of Carth on his destroyer, doing blood mane. His entire team dies, he survives, and kills mane thru enrage, spin2win.

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1 minute ago, Tsunakai said:

Same note if i'm highest dps as an FM and tanking the boss in melee range with fewer defensive skills then I should be entitled to all the loot, the rest of you can have what I don't want.

 

Also As an FM of high atk pwr, you can never be at max range from bosses like Yura. Doesn't matter the tank, he can make a mistake any time, it's human, if he gets KD by Yura same time as I use inferno/meteor/dragons, my threat will spike above his, i'll pull aggro, and if i'm at range, I die. Therefore I remain in melee range, Sure the decision to goto range is mine, and I can choose to die an possibly result in a wipe of the group, but i'd rather this didn't happen. Also By remaining in melee range I keep the boss pretty still, so melee can continue doing good dps, oddly I go out of my way to make life easier for melee when I really don't have to, and here they are still complain on the forums about the same shit I deal with, except i'm doing it as a class the game doesn't intend to be in melee range.

Yes because when you are the best DPS class in the game, iframes, defensive skills that heal plus a whole lot of abilities to make you pretty much damn invincible, you should have first priorities. Bravo

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Jaite   
7 minutes ago, Crimsonjrjr said:

Yes because when you are the best DPS class in the game, iframes, defensive skills that heal plus a whole lot of abilities to make you pretty much damn invincible, you should have first priorities. Bravo

Well based on your perspective he should. I don't think people understand the amount of work range classes put in when compared to melees.

 

Yea, we all get it, apparently melee struggle on mechanics that range classes apparently excel at. 

 

At the end of the day, still the same old boring easy mechanics all classes have to know and do in order to survive while melees believe it's impossible.

Edited by Jaite

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Xelo   
24 minutes ago, Crimsonjrjr said:

Want me to tank so you don't die? Ok but I want priority on loot and no random bidding

People that don't understand the principles of working together with others should consider playing single player games.

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Teffy   

I have friend BM.He outdps most people,like nearly everyone.Crazy dps and on top of that he easly iframe 8 yeti slams.And on top of that easly solo lycan and protect camp as mele and BM.He has no problem in SSP and he always get box.Guess being good in West is not normal.

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Shukran   
7 hours ago, Scorpyix said:

@Teffy The OWPVP in this game is a joke because of faction balance (people + bots).
[Blademaster here] About melee vs range, i don't really feel a need to change something about my class in PVE cause this is the way it should be. Melee don't need to have range attacks or/and the bosses if you don't have a good tank eventually he will attack the ranger. So for these who feel like PVE is unbalanced, you should thanks to that tank. (summoners are not included in my equation... class for weak people)

TRY going in SSP with less than 580ap now. (server-wise, ofc) as melee. lok the prestige you get, then look around for some, same-ap-ranged class.

 

i feel like a black sheep these days reading forum. like, what game am i playing? maybe my server is different. it seems.

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Zerecas   
10 minutes ago, Tsunakai said:

Also By remaining in melee range I keep the boss pretty still, so melee can continue doing good dps, oddly I go out of my way to make life easier for melee when I really don't have to, and here they are still complain on the forums about the same shit I deal with, except i'm doing it as a class the game doesn't intend to be in melee range.

Pretty much, they asked for something that benefits the entire melee branches regardless of their gear and keeps pinning at range class is just no more than pew pew pew.

Yet all these scrubs totally forget about the scenario as a geared range users. All I see are me control alt FM pew pew pew, me gains credit ez, are probably all stupidly low stats and expected to be carried at the very beginning. And still has the audacity to talk about SSP when the one likely on aggro are the constant switching of pets taunting from different Summoners and that fps drop craps of which isn't relevant to classes.

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Jaite   

Have you seen a range with 580 AP competing with other ranges/good melees at 700 AP? At SSP??

 

If youre 580 AP, you're there to do faction dailies not farm  prestige.

 

Edited by Jaite

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Teffy   

There is tons of places meles shines compared to ranged classes but noone point that.Everyone look at SSP like is the only content and what people must spam all day long,every day.I hate SSP and I'm FM I avoid it at any cost.I just hate it,period.And I know many like me.

 

LEt's reduce meles Iframes to 4 sec CD and duration of them to be 2 sec.Also few extra stuff like every skill apart from LB and RB must give meles iframe for certain period of time.Anddd 500% defense /block/parry/evasion boost,40% hp boost,100 AP extra base attack and 20% crit dmg.

And of course let's nerf FM to old 2.0 build.No burn for FM's,and they must spam LB/RB/F and 1.Summoner dmg should be rolled back to 2.0 build too when they had bad DPS. Warlock dps should be reduced by 50% too because ranged you know.

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4 hours ago, Archess said:

I am not looking to tank anymore for derp groups, there is a limit to how much abuse you can take from those toxic players that know it all

If this game had less a-holes in it, i am sure there would have been allot more tanks around, but they either all jumped on the ranged bandwagon or got fed up to peoples inability to have a single ounce of patience and said *cricket* this and quit.

I always try to tank, and 99% of the time, I do end up ripping away aggro.

 

But when someone decides they want to start bosses without warning (be it ranged or melee), I'll sit back and dps, letting them tank. If the boss happens to use a blockable aoe, I'll block it, use cyclone, and eventually grab aggro. If not, I'll continue to dps, and if the "tank" dies, it's their funeral.

 

What really gets on my nerves though, is when some randoms start a boss, and then have the nerve to talk smack 10s later in the middle of the boss fight saying "good tanking" o_O. Yes, I had this a few days ago and I had half a mind to not HM block when they got frozen, but my conscience would have gotten the better of me if I didn't.

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34 minutes ago, OniOfTheSword said:

I always try to tank, and 99% of the time, I do end up ripping away aggro.

 

But when someone decides they want to start bosses without warning (be it ranged or melee), I'll sit back and dps, letting them tank. If the boss happens to use a blockable aoe, I'll block it, use cyclone, and eventually grab aggro. If not, I'll continue to dps, and if the "tank" dies, it's their funeral.

 

What really gets on my nerves though, is when some randoms start a boss, and then have the nerve to talk smack 10s later in the middle of the boss fight saying "good tanking" o_O. Yes, I had this a few days ago and I had half a mind to not HM block when they got frozen, but my conscience would have gotten the better of me if I didn't.

I wish I could block boss attacks and get bonus out of it. Then resisting half of time and other half trying not to die. It takes skill. That´s fine but still unfair to being ranged and no skilling the boss. Like give someone a knife and say go take down a dragon. While ranged get a gun. Say whatever you like but at end ranged wins.

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Teffy   

And then you go in arena with the said ranged and you feel really silly against most meles because hey everyone and ther entire familly has range protections/blocks/parrys/counters,etc and gazilion of dmg and ccs.Yeah no wonder there is like 90 FM's in korea top 100 chart...oh wait there isn't.

 

PvE? Learn to play.Thats more important then gear.I have friend BM who doesn't give a shit who open the fight - he always get it a few sec later.You know that silly nasty 2 skill that can open cyclone...how unfrair,right?

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9 minutes ago, Cyan Hirijikawa said:

I wish I could block boss attacks and get bonus out of it. Then resisting half of time and other half trying not to die. It takes skill. That´s fine but still unfair to being ranged and no skilling the boss. Like give someone a knife and say go take down a dragon. While ranged get a gun. Say whatever you like but at end ranged wins.

I don't get any sort of bonus for blocking boss attacks. In fact, I take damage through my block because my block stat isn't high enough, and investing into more block means giving up on other stats like crit.

 

You can think of the ranged vs melee argument in 2 scenarios:

1) If there's a melee tank tanking the boss: Then this is a no brainer cause ranged can safely stay out of range of many boss attacks and get 100% uptime with uninterrupted ani cancels. Melee still has to dodge circular aoes, but good tanks can keep the boss facing one side and give melees a lot more uptime. 

 

2) If a ranged character is holding aggro: Melees have to move around a lot more to get uptime, and sometimes even ranged characters might have to significantly adjust their position since the ranged tank might bring the boss their way. This results in lower uptime for the entire party, and is less effective than a BM/KFM tanking.

 

So it really depends on how competent the tank is. Good tanks can make the life of melee players also much easier, and make the life of ranged that much more boring (who wants to just stand in one spot pressing LB RB F 2?).

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Shukran   
36 minutes ago, Teffy said:

And then you go in arena with the said ranged and you feel really silly against most meles because hey everyone and ther entire familly has range protections/blocks/parrys/counters,etc and gazilion of dmg and ccs.Yeah no wonder there is like 90 FM's in korea top 100 chart...oh wait there isn't.

 

PvE? Learn to play.Thats more important then gear.I have friend BM who doesn't give a shit who open the fight - he always get it a few sec later.You know that silly nasty 2 skill that can open cyclone...how unfrair,right?

so learn to play is valid only in pve for melee? in a OWPVP enviroinment?

 

oh look, the arbitrary silllyness.

Edited by Shukran

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