Stats Relevant to Whirlwind Valley?

[RudeBwoii]

ok so i was going over some stats that would be necessary and that i see ppl with Naksun soulshield running in WwV. So basically anyone serious about WwV would ran full set Naksun with max fused Critical Defence stats which seems make sense as it reduces the dmg alot since everybody and their cats in WwV have more than 55% critical chance and would run max out critical dmg in the excess of 200%, so the critical defence here is equally if not more important than base defence or flat HP stats. Now another stat i think is highly under-appreciated is "Block". Anyone familiar with the block mechanic would probably know where i am going with this, for those unfamiliar with it Block is basically a stat that controls a chance to block a portion of the dmg coming u would take after calculating defence (at least thats my understanding of it) however this "block" cannot be controlled and is totally dependent on your block rate or block percent chance which basically means its an RNG factor. Now common knowledge would say that relying on"RNG" or "Luck" isnt very smart. However the same can be said about relying on RNG and luck for criticals which is why ppl stat so much critical hit and have in excess of 55% which in some cases will make u critical hit more than simply 55% of your atks since the atks have only 2 possible outcomes [Hit or miss] which then translates into (non-crit or crit) and if u have greater than 50% critical hit chance then its highly likely that majority if not all of your atks will crit. "Block" functions the same way (i believe) so basically they either [hit or miss] and then (block or no-block), also to add that the higher your block chance the more dmg u block when it activates.

Now while some ppl will look at this and say that block is basically an RNG version of flat defence or of Flat critical defence so it seems inferior to both those stats, it is rightly so. However block has another function and this is where I think it can be quite valuable or even more valuable than critical defence in a sense. If block activates when ur opponent is pouring out status effects or cc on u, then all those status effects and cc will get blocked. Now i am not too sure how status effects that dont deal dmg works in accordance with block but i know for a fact that any status effect that deals dmg immediately as it's used can be deflected by block and i also think that the stat "block" differs from player control block like KFM and BM in the sense that "penetrate defense/parry/block" will not work against it (not 100% sure here but i think thats how it works). 

Some crowd control i can think of off the top of my head that block will negate are: Phantom Grip, Raid, Turning Leaf, Tier3F1 Lunge, T2F2 Strike, Destroyer Knee, KFM commet strike etc... I am not entirely sure but i think T2/T3 F1 Power Pounce would dodge "block" because it deals dmg after the pin ends so imo anything that deals dmg after a set duration and not on contact will dodge "block"

 

Any thats what i think about stating block in Whirlwind Valley and i wanted to hear u guys' comment on the subject so feel free to post your thoughts on it as i really want to see how it would work and the amount of statted block would be necessary for it to be feasible.

[VRock]

what about evasion? You take no damage. I guess evade is much better?

[RudeBwoii]

evasion works about the same way but the problem with it i think is that u have to stat absurd amount of evasion to reach a viable % where u can be GodMode example i have 1488 evasion which gives me 22.78% evasion chance at lvl 50 with my 607 block my block rate is 19.84% chance also to note that whatever your opponent stat will never interact with ur block rate, however everyone is stating accuracy as a side effect of Soguns Lament which also will affect someone using high levels of evasion and Naksun soul shield is also known to have ridiculously high Accuracy on its pieces so stating high ends of evasion requires alot of sacrifices elsewhere and can easily be countered by accuracy while statting block gives higher block rate per stat than evasion would and it cannot be countered by stats your opponent s using.

 

based on what i calculated, after subtracting base evasion and block rate from the amount that statted bonus gives

Evasion - it takes 82.278 or 82.28 points of evasion to give 1% evasion rate. (not sure about soft/hard cap)

on the flip side it takes 35 points of block to give 1% block rate. (not sure about soft/hard cap)

so for every 35 points of block u stat u get 1% block rate and for every 82.3 point of evasion u stat u get 1% evasion rate. Both work the same way that if u get cc'd u cannot block or evade so say u get pinned by Power pounce none of them will activate. But by having higher block/evade rate to begin with the chances u get cc'd are very slim.

[Shuchin]

all true in theory but from sporadic personal testing and anecdotal evidence from people who tried evasion or block builds it seems the case that auto-block and auto-evasion do not reach the effectiveness their nominal value makes you expect. Meaning either there's a hidden PvP nerf to them, many skills automatically penetrate them (my current favourite theory) or some other factor X. Clearly the fact that they do not work from behind would be easily exploitable as well.

It is safer to bet on crit defense, and if you think you have enough crit def, stack pierce.

[Fubar]

6 hours ago, Shuchin said:

all true in theory but from sporadic personal testing and anecdotal evidence from people who tried evasion or block builds it seems the case that auto-block and auto-evasion do not reach the effectiveness their nominal value makes you expect.

That's because in this theory you're forgetting about fact that all (lets assume all good) player's going to BG have at least ~115% ACCURACY. That's the 'factor X' of lowering the rate of Evasion and Block. You would have to fight with some newbies that aren't even having 100% acc to say that build full Evasion/Block would be good at all.

[Shuchin]

I was more talking about testing where I exactly knew my own nominal evasion / block and my clan mate's accuracy and the stats did not add up with reality. The anecdotal evidence posted by others elsewhere spoke of a lvl 45 (back when that was cap) ~55% nominal evasion rate and 15-20% evasion in actual field conditions. That cannot be explained with 115% acc, even if people back then would have stacked it.