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A few questions about this class


KlausFlouride

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I started this game with this class and switched later to a Summoner. With this latest event(upgrade) I have decided to dust off my Sin since my Summoner is geared up(650AP) pretty well. So a am looking for kind of a refresher on the class. What is are good skills I should train for PVE, I am not much into PVP and only went to SSP once(thx bots for ruining this zone). What do I want to train for KD and stun for doing Yeti and Sogun's? Melee is so much different from ranged it isn't funny.

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Firstly it depends on what build you are playing. 

 

Lightning (stealth) or dark (non stealth). 

 

Dark build is superior in dealing damage and actively dodging attacks while lighting build is better for most solo content and CC's (even though you can do CC's as good with dark build with just going into stealth). 

Also with lighting build you can evade many attacks but IF you get hit it can sometimes be difficult to restealth again. 

 

Dark build also relys alot more on HM skills (LMB, RB and 3) while for the lightning build you don't need any HM skill except for RB. 

 

You also have 2 different rotations:

 

Lightning build: RB+LMB+4 anicancel if possible with 5 poison stacks in stealth

Dark build: RB+LMB+F anicancel with 5 poison stacks (a must for dark build) in decoy (non-stealth). 

 

Your CC skills:

 

Double stun: 

For lighting build the easiest way is to put 3 points in your spinal tab (LMB in stealth) which lets you stay in stealth + 2 points in your 3 (shadowstep) which also let's you stay in stealth.  

For dark build the easiest way is to cast 3 (shadowstep) in stealth and anicancel it with spinal tab (no points in it!) which puts you out of stealth again. 

 

For double KD:

Easiest way for lighting build is to spec your F (swiftstep) into KD + your 3 shadowslash into KD but both are in decoy stance so you have to go out of stealth first! 

For Dark build you also spec into F but since your 3 skill can't be speced into KD because you need it for poison stacks you need to spec into Z landmine KD (ONLY 1 point in it!). 

 

For specific skillbuilds (lighting and dark) just check bnstree.com - there you can find a ton of examples how the skillbuilds should look like. 

 

There are dozens of other things you have to consider (SIN is very complex) but this maybe gives you a small idea. 

 

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Shiune pretty much covered the DPS and CC part, so let's review the Assassin's toolkit:

  • Damage: as pretty much stated, Assassins have outstanding damage output, and are arguably equal, if not better, than Force Masters.
  • Utility: People think Assassin are just a "hurr durr damage" class. This is simply not true; we have, infact, one of the biggest utility kits out there.
  • Sub-tank: While we have no aggro generation skills nor can we hold block, if we can maintain aggro we can basically play the "evasion tank" role with our numerous iframe skills.
  • Party stealth:
    • Stealth Protection: Our Decoy middle tree gives an effect that iframes all party members, similar to Enhanced Seed Shroud/Dandelion. As a Summoner you should know how invaluable that is in Yeti, as well as future bosses. The upside is that our Hongmoon effect allows us to protect two hits, but the downside is that it doesn't protect the caster and essentially functions like a normal Decoy for us, and we have no real control over it since it's attached on our Decoy and not a separate skill.
    • Group Stealth: Assassin are the only class capable of directly stealthing party members outside of Stealth Protection. Smokescreen right tree puts the entire party within 3 meters of the smoke into stealth for 10 seconds. We now have Lotus of Rescue, the middle right tree in Lotus of Escape; this puts down a marker and stealths you for 15 seconds, then teleports all party members within 8 meters of the marker directly to you (but destealths you) on Rescue Call for a 6 second 100% movement speed bonus, 3 second stealth, and 3 second party iframe. Group Stealthing is extremely useful for bypassing powerful and bulky trash mobs who can potentially wipe 6-man parties (Sogun's Lament on the way to Iruga for example), however people will often ignore Group Stealth and would rather fight unrewarding trash and get themselves killed.
  • Downed party pull: Lotus of Escape left tree pulls anyone who has fallen directly to the lotus mark. The biggest draw over Force Master and Destroyer's downed party rescue is that it pulls from 100 meters away and works on completely dead and chi recovering people, but completely lacks the ability to shield downed party mates. This was a rather common support skill before Fighting Spirit was a thing, and is still quite useful if people happen to die on the way to the boss (e.g. if someone dies in Bloodshade Harbor you can pull them up a flight of crates).
  • Anti-projectile field: Smokescreen middle tree negates projectiles like Petal Storm, with 15 chi regeneration to boot. The cooldown is longer though, and goes up to 30 seconds for adding 10% party health regeneration.
  • Fighting Spirit: The same as what Kung Fu Master's does, it's now part of our kit in the Lotus of Escape right tree. Instead of a short iframe on Hongmoon, it gives us double damage on two of our core skills.
  • Grab: Yes, Assassin can grab with Highwire. However, it's vastly inferior to all other class's grabs since it only lasts for 3 seconds, only works on Dazed/Stunned and not Knockdown targets, requires us to be 9 meters away from the target, and two skills out of Highwire do literally nothing while the third skill is mediocre damage. Still, a 3 second CC extension can be useful.
  • Aerial Knockup Extension: Assassin are the only class that can keep the boss suspended in midair with Webbing. This doesn't matter now, but future boss mechanics actually demand knockups.

The only thing we lack are healing and don't have the ability to put down a shield to protect downed party mates. Overall, an Assassin offers far more offensive capabilities, while a Summoner contributes more to defensiveness.

 

Now if you want an example of a skill tree, I run this for Dark Build, and this for Lightning Build.

23 hours ago, Shiune said:

Double stun:
For lighting build the easiest way is to put 3 points in your spinal tab (LMB in stealth) which lets you stay in stealth + 2 points in your 3 (shadowstep) which also let's you stay in stealth.
For dark build the easiest way is to cast 3 (shadowstep) in stealth and anicancel it with spinal tab (no points in it!) which puts you out of stealth again. 

For double KD:
Easiest way for lighting build is to spec your F (swiftstep) into KD + your 3 shadowslash into KD but both are in decoy stance so you have to go out of stealth first!
For Dark build you also spec into F but since your 3 skill can't be speced into KD because you need it for poison stacks you need to spec into Z landmine KD (ONLY 1 point in it!).

For double stun I personally use the former even for Dark build. Two points raises the cooldown of Bolt Strike by 15 seconds, plus the timing to stay next to the boss can be difficult. I also run Lotus Kick if there's a situation where Lotus Fury isn't necessary.

 

For double KD, I swap Stealth 1 into Cyclone Sweep, and use Swiftstep. Similarly can be used for double daze, alongside Sneak Attack (double daze is required for the next dungeon, Sundered Nexus). For a Dark build, once you have Hongmoon Heart Stab you won't miss Shadow Drain as much.

Quote

it depends on what build you are playing.

 

Now I personally run both build types. I use Lightning to solo Awakened Necropolis's Pyre Lord and Sogun's Lament one pathway to Ken/Gen, while Dark is pretty much used everywhere else (even in Mushin's Tower, simply because there's no excitement to using Lightning there and little chance of dying to non-true sight mobs).

2 hours ago, KlausFlouride said:

how is it that I see most Assassin's perma stealthed? I saw a video for it but it was done when the level cap was 45. Has anything changed?

Perma-stealth is still the same as 45. It's still Lightning build using Shadow Drain, Bolt Strike, Backstep -> Shadow Dash, and Hook Kick being used to enter and maintain stealth.

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On 5/13/2016 at 6:11 AM, KlausFlouride said:

What do I want to train for KD and stun for doing Yeti and Sogun's? Melee is so much different from ranged it isn't funny.

Since the others explained PvE skills pretty well and I don't know much about PvP, I'll explain how I personally handle ccing for these two. For stunning Gen and Ken, I prefer using (from stealth mode) Spinal Tap (3 points left side) and then Lotus Kick, since it's very easy to face their backs when this is needed and I don't like how Bolt Strike puts you a distance away (and I think resets your camera since I always have to zoom back out after using it). For KD, I prefer (from decoy stance) Decoy -> Swiftstep (1 point) and then Shadow Slash (knockdown version). This is because I don't always have a lot of maneuverability when I need to KD them, so even though I could technically spec Landmine or Cyclone Sweep to accomplish this and keep my Venom Slash, I prefer this way since I would have to press at least two buttons for the other two, wasting valuable time. Yeah you lose out on some of your dark combo damage, but cc is more important imo. For Iruga's adds I do the same thing, except I tend to favor Bolt Strike a little more since sometimes I need to stun 2 adds and it's not a bad gap closer (especially if you need to get the farthest add!). For Yeti I usually Tab Stealth away from his pull or backstep it. If I did the former method, I poison Yeti and use Shadow Drain to reset my stealth counter, then I usually have someone help me stun and I just use Spinal Tap (2 points left side). If you wanted to do this yourself I -think- you'd have enough time to do Spinal Tap (3 points) -> Bolt Strike, but you're on a long cooldown that way. There's usually at least 1 other class that can help you stun in a party. As for the latter method, just Shadow Dash back into stealth and do the same thing. I prefer not using Lotus Kick here because I like my Lotus Fury iframes (and I need them if there's no FM and if I'm to save the party during frozen cruxes). I think you could also use Spinal Tap -> Lighting Rod (4) at the cost of a chi-regen skill.

55 minutes ago, KlausFlouride said:

I tried Yeti today thinking it would be easier as a melee class. Ya and nope. Trying to CC or iFrame this guy is significantly harder than on my Summoner.

I'm pretty sure we usually have more iframes than Summs (if they took the group dandelion protect is what I hear). I typically step on 1 frozen crux before he starts, leaving 7. My usual pattern to dodge ice is Q -> SS -> E (Shunpo; never tried Sidestep Right or whatever it's called) -> C (Lotus Fury protects from two ices) -> Q -> SS. Idk anything about iframing on Summ, so I can't speak for how much "harder" it is, but I guess it does take some practice getting into the rhythm and timing it. Keep at it!

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3 hours ago, KlausFlouride said:

I tried Yeti today thinking it would be easier as a melee class. Ya and nope. Trying to CC or iFrame this guy is significantly harder than on my Summoner.

The pattern to dodge Yeti's ice, as Ceralune said, is to take one crux and then use Q -> SS -> E -> C -> Q -> SS.

 

I might be wrong but personally I feel that the timing of Shunpo is less lenient than Shadow Dash/Sidestep Left. Sidestep Right's 0.5 extra iframe is actually pretty huge.

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58 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

I might be wrong but personally I feel that the timing of Shunpo is less lenient than Shadow Dash/Sidestep Left. Sidestep Right's 0.5 extra iframe is actually pretty huge.

o: Oh? I might give it a try sometime. I like Shunpo's extra mobility in certain situations, and it still lets me iframe one.

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You actually can cancel the animation of bolt strike right as you land. With that you can double stun yeti easily or just stay close to the target to dps.

 

Also, I see a lot of people jumping into one ice patch as soon as they can, but I really don't think it's the most efficient way to do it. You lose a lot of dps doing so. When yeti summons the ice stalagmite, I charge a mushroom to kill it and get the orb. That way, you won't randomly get hit by stalagmites (sometimes it's really hardcore) and you have good vision on the room to clear usually more than one ice patch with the fire orb. If you don't have a FM you can jump into one ice patch pretty much at the same time as everyone else after that. 

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It really doesn't matter for Yeti what I do, it's purely luck of the group. I fail Yeti about 70% of the time, without a doubt it's the single hardest zone in the game. Hell Sogun's 4 man is laughably easy in comparison. For the Daily Challenge it usually takes me 10-15 attempts to beat it once.

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4 hours ago, KlausFlouride said:

It really doesn't matter for Yeti what I do, it's purely luck of the group. I fail Yeti about 70% of the time, without a doubt it's the single hardest zone in the game. Hell Sogun's 4 man is laughably easy in comparison. For the Daily Challenge it usually takes me 10-15 attempts to beat it once.

Fail as in you die during the fight or die by getting iced? During the fight it should be easy if you just attack the Yeti from behind since the tank will be tanking. 

 

As for the ice I personally do this:

When he starts to absorb the ice (assuming no ice patches were melted) - 

Drop Lotus (V) first

SS

Q

C - 2 yeti smashes

V

SS

Q

On the last BIG hit, I use 2 decoy to party save, and then E shunpo right after. 

 

If you get a strict pattern down it doesn't matter how many ice he absorbs. Just follow the pattern and he will stop smashing eventually. 

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It really doesn't matter for Yeti what I do, it's purely luck of the group. I fail Yeti about 70% of the time, without a doubt it's the single hardest zone in the game. Hell Sogun's 4 man is laughably easy in comparison. For the Daily Challenge it usually takes me 10-15 attempts to beat it once.

How exactly are you failing?

  • If you die during the fight, then you need to read up on Yeti's attack patterns more:
    • Two arc swings -> one arc clap that stuns -> red area of effect butt slam -> single target uppercut. You can just stand behind him to avoid the first two attacks, then move out of the way for the third.
    • If someone gets grabbed during heat phase, immediately run over to where the grabbed person will land.
    • For Yeti's ice phase, always take the ice or use the mushroom's fire to get rid of them, then use the iframes as said before.
  • If you are dying because your party mates Escape/Retreat the throw, fail to CC Yeti's jumps, or fail to take ice cruxes, then your party simply is bad. Don't ever queue dungeons like these, join or make your own announced party.
1 hour ago, devildawg said:

Fail as in you die during the fight or die by getting iced? During the fight it should be easy if you just attack the Yeti from behind since the tank will be tanking. 

As for the ice I personally do this:
When he starts to absorb the ice (assuming no ice patches were melted) - 

Drop Lotus (V) first
SS
Q
C - 2 yeti smashes
V
SS
Q

On the last BIG hit, I use 2 decoy to party save, and then E shunpo right after. 

If you get a strict pattern down it doesn't matter how many ice he absorbs. Just follow the pattern and he will stop smashing eventually. 

Generally though Lotus of Escape shouldn't be taken over Fighting Spirit since you lose DPS overall. But if you're trying to survive and the fight is still managable without Fighting Spirit then go ahead; no one really says anything anyway.

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15 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Generally though Lotus of Escape shouldn't be taken over Fighting Spirit since you lose DPS overall. But if you're trying to survive and the fight is still managable without Fighting Spirit then go ahead; no one really says anything anyway.

True. But in most cases people's AP is high enough for Yeti and don't need FS. Last night we did Yeti and after his first ice stage he died since DPS isnt an issue and I didn't use FS. If I had FS on we would have wiped cause I had to dodge all 7 smashes and party save as well. We did run with a KFM and Lock tho so they have buffs. Our AP ranged from 450-550. 

 

If DPS is an issue and are all under 500AP, I'd run with a FM and keep FS on then. So clear I think 3 ice patches with the fire/standing on them. Then you let the FM use Sheath to protect the 4 hits. 

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2 hours ago, KlausFlouride said:

How do you deal with Junghado? I can get him down to 25% and he does some toss up shit and I'm finished. Another thing I have noticed is I am so busy looking at the CD on things I can never successfully CC anything,

 

 

Stealth build works on Junghado, it's only slightly harder due to glitches and his True Sight buff. If he ever manages to see you, he will typically drop ice fields, which you can avoid by simply using Hook Kick on him and he won't do it. If he ever goes invincible, use Lotus Fury when he is about to start his combo.

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