Jump to content

Is anything being done to combat bots?


Fuz

Recommended Posts

Look at PoE. there are hardly bots (I am sure there are). But no gold sellers because the game don't use bots are currency. you simply upgrade your gems as you level and those gems are what makes your character stronger (gears too and also drops that can chain gems together in your weapons, accessories.).  That's one way to combat botters.

 

Another is to make it so it is easy to get gold to upgrade than you don't need to spend hours and hours just to get enough for a small upgrade (In case of BnS). The reason people buy gold is because is hard to grind them and the gold/items needed for the weapons/accessories is too much of a grind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 977
  • Created
  • Last Reply

They're still spamming friend invites and its been 2 months now I think. I'm so sick of logging on just to have 2 or 3 more bot invites, like wtf, whats the point of a bot trying to friend you?! To just be friends? I'm not getting anything from them nor will they from me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Dotimus said:

and there is where you are wrong, just as the client (which is bypassed by hacking tools) can let you only select the skills that are not on  CD, the same can easily  be done server side ( the only problem is they will need a "bit" more CPU resources for each server than they do now)

 

NO, it doesn not require the entire arch of the game to change, it is just needed to implement a  proxy (in-between the servers that recieve your connections and the ones that execute the operations on the databases)

Lord help your poor soul.... honestly I'm tempted to write a paragraph on why this is the most ignorant thing I've seen [moderated content]. But instead you are further fueling my motivation to finish and publish my book on how people severely overestimate the technology surrounding them. I blame the movies.

 

"bypassed with hacking tools" NOPE, where do the hacking tools come from, have you ever even gotten a Bachelor's degree in programming? what will a TOOL on your comp DO when it comes to the NETWORK? how can you log into a database, WITH NO PERMISSIONS!? If they could they wouldn't need bots they could just CHANGE THE GOLD VALUES TO LIKE 99999! And for SQL injections? they can't inject permissions into a database....

 

Hack the server? No. Just no. It's possible, but then they would just steal money directly, and then the raises the question why not steal from a small bank instead? you're gonna get into as much legal trouble.

 

"implement a proxy" I'm sorry this one had me rolling, are you even aware what this is? proxy in between the servers? What the actual ****?

Uhh the hacks don't work by changing database values....in fact that makes NO SENSE, if they did and changed CD/movement EVERYONE IN THE GAME would feel it.

 

THE SERVERS communicate with the database, so a proxy between the servers is just hilarious and shows you can't even inject a shred of logic into this topic.

 

"between the server that receives connections and one that executes operations of database" So...the same server...cause there is no seperation....

Ex. Client tells server "hey i don't have a CD on seed shroud!"(uploaded data) server says "oh, ok you're the boss!"(downloaded data) WHY? cause the game's ENGINE is programmed so that the PREDICTION of a situations OUTCOME when it comes to MOVEMENT and SKILLS is determined by the CLIENT.

 

That's literally as simple as I can explain it without diving balls deep and writing an article, which I actually might.

 

-Bachelor's in Computer science from BGSU

-Master's in Cyber Security (Specialization in Network Forensics and Intrusion Investigation) from UTICA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, KuroTeikokuNoRyuu said:

Bot control is fighting a losing battle that doesn't end until the players you're fighting for stop buying gold, and the gold sellers see the game as not worth their time.

For every 15 people who aren't an angst ridden 16 yr old who thinks they know everything, there is 1 of you.

Thank you for making me not feel alone among this sea of dumbasses...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many thanks for the technical explanations. To be honest, I was entirely mixed up about botting and hacking; it's clear now.

 

Agreed that the best way of attacking the problem would be to make the game less attractive to gold sellers, but that would mean changing the character of B&S a great deal (for the better, actually) and I don't see it happening.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Giggle said:

Lord help your poor soul.... honestly I'm tempted to write a paragraph on why this is the most ignorant thing I've seen [moderated content]. But instead you are further fueling my motivation to finish and publish my book on how people severely overestimate the technology surrounding them. I blame the movies.

 

"bypassed with hacking tools" NOPE, where do the hacking tools come from, have you ever even gotten a Bachelor's degree in programming? what will a TOOL on your comp DO when it comes to the NETWORK? how can you log into a database, WITH NO PERMISSIONS!? If they could they wouldn't need bots they could just CHANGE THE GOLD VALUES TO LIKE 99999! And for SQL injections? they can't inject permissions into a database....

 

Hack the server? No. Just no. It's possible, but then they would just steal money directly, and then the raises the question why not steal from a small bank instead? you're gonna get into as much legal trouble.

 

"implement a proxy" I'm sorry this one had me rolling, are you even aware what this is? proxy in between the servers? What the actual ****?

Uhh the hacks don't work by changing database values....in fact that makes NO SENSE, if they did and changed CD/movement EVERYONE IN THE GAME would feel it.

 

THE SERVERS communicate with the database, so a proxy between the servers is just hilarious and shows you can't even inject a shred of logic into this topic.

 

"between the server that receives connections and one that executes operations of database" So...the same server...cause there is no seperation....

Ex. Client tells server "hey i don't have a CD on seed shroud!"(uploaded data) server says "oh, ok you're the boss!"(downloaded data) WHY? cause the game's ENGINE is programmed so that the PREDICTION of a situations OUTCOME when it comes to MOVEMENT and SKILLS is determined by the CLIENT.

 

That's literally as simple as I can explain it without diving balls deep and writing an article, which I actually might.

 

-Bachelor's in Computer science from BGSU

-Master's in Cyber Security (Specialization in Network Forensics and Intrusion Investigation) from UTICA

nice to know the one receiving BS on CS from BGSU and a MS in cyber sec from UTICA can't understand English, as they don't even understand why people use "(" and ")"  and text in-between those two...

 

learn to read and not just skim through text and you will probably understand it.

 

and as you have a MS in CyberSec you should know no secure service should have input directly from a client without validation ( and thats is/was the purpose of implementing that proxy)

 

Cause really if the input from client > front end server > DB server had validation the bots wouldn't be in a forever state of immunity to damage.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Dotimus said:

Cause really if the input from client > front end server > DB server had validation the bots wouldn't be in a forever state of immunity to damage.

Client restrictions are often bypassed through packet injection.

 

The whole reason it works is because it passes validation, as it appears to be a legitimate call.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, KuroTeikokuNoRyuu said:

Client restrictions are often bypassed through packet injection.

 

The whole reason it works is because it passes validation, as it appears to be a legitimate call.

i donr know where you are going with that phase, but this is what i''ve been writing since a few weeks ago:

 

how it probably is:

client input-> input validation-> front end server-> db server ( feel free to exchange "server" for "service" if it makes feel you better)

[--------------client side-----------][------------server side------------]

 

how it should be:

client input-> front end server -> input validation -> db server

[-client side-][-------------------server side----------------------------]

 

hope drawings help to make it understandable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, KuroTeikokuNoRyuu said:

Client restrictions are often bypassed through packet injection.

 

The whole reason it works is because it passes validation, as it appears to be a legitimate call.

Yep i looked on hackers forums and they claim to have right certificat so the hacks seems to be normal serverside. 

For me bot are long term problem and i understand it's hard to deal with, but hack really quickly unbalance the game, it's for me the n1 problem atm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Dotimus said:

i donr know where you are going with that phase, but this is what i''ve been writing since a few weeks ago:

 

how it probably is:

client input-> input validation-> front end server-> db server ( feel free to exchange "server" for "service" if it makes you better)

[--------------client side-----------][------------server side------------]

how it should be:

client input-> front end server -> input validation -> db server

[-client side-][-------------------server side----------------------------]

hope drawings help to make it understandable.

I'm not sure if you're confusing me for another poster, but your pretty pictures have nothing to do with my mysterious phrase.

 

But for giggles, I'll make some arts and crafts too.

 

How things usually work:

Client: He can do that.

Server: Ok.

 

How you seemingly want it to work? (Though I'm not sure what the database has to do with input validation...)

Client: Can he do that?

Server: I dunno, let me ask.

Server: Can he do that?

Weird back end "input validation": Yeah I guess so.

Server: Ok he can do that.

Client: Ok I'll let him do that.

 

Having every button press needing to be approved by the server would be a horrible idea. To begin with, whether or not you can use a skill while it's on CD is not any kind of "input".

 

And as an added bonus, packet injection!

Client: He can't do that.

Injector: Imma let you finish, but that was the best action of all time!

Server: Ok he can clearly do that then.

 

The injector intercepts data being sent by the client to the server, and changes it to what it wants. For instance, it can change a "He tried to use that skill, but it's on cooldown, so he's not casting it" into a "He tried to use that skill and it's not on cooldown, so he's casting it.".

 

There's no validation to speak of, the injector changes the no to a yes, and it's seen by everything as a yes. Trying to "validate" that would be telling the server "A yes is only a yes when it's a yes".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, KuroTeikokuNoRyuu said:

I'm not sure if you're confusing me for another poster, but your pretty pictures have nothing to do with my mysterious phrase.

 

But for giggles, I'll make some arts and crafts too.

 

How things usually work:

Client: He can do that.

Server: Ok.

 

How you seemingly want it to work? (Though I'm not sure what the database has to do with input validation...)

Client: Can he do that?

Server: I dunno, let me ask.

Server: Can he do that?

Weird back end "input validation": Yeah I guess so.

Server: Ok he can do that.

Client: Ok I'll let him do that.

 

Having every button press needing to be approved by the server would be a horrible idea. To begin with, whether or not you can use a skill while it's on CD is not any kind of "input".

 

And as an added bonus, packet injection!

Client: He can't do that.

Injector: Imma let you finish, but that was the best action of all time!

Server: Ok he can clearly do that then.

 

The injector intercepts data being sent by the client to the server, and changes it to what it wants. For instance, it can change a "He tried to use that skill, but it's on cooldown, so he's not casting it" into a "He tried to use that skill and it's not on cooldown, so he's casting it.".

 

There's no validation to speak of, the injector changes the no to a yes, and it's seen by everything as a yes. Trying to "validate" that would be telling the server "A yes is only a yes when it's a yes".

at least someone that understand it.

now putting a validation layer would go like this:

 

And as an added bonus, packet injection!

Client: He can't do that.

Injector: Imma let you finish, but that was the best action of all time!

Front end SERVER: that skill is still on CD, so its invalid as " skillXYZ.skillCD > (gettimeofdayInNanosecs - skillXYZ.lastUsedTimeInNanosecs)  "

DB SERVER: Ok, I can clearly do whatever the front end server parsed as valid.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While writing this post, I am considering canceling my account out of frustration.   As a subscriber,  I've played the game for the past couple months and really enjoy many aspects of the game but alas the bots/hacks are out of control.  

 

I counted my arena matches today... out of 27 matches 23 were against bots.   This on top of the constant whispers from gold spammer, spamming in general chat and friend invites from gold spammers at an obscene rate... it is taken what was very good game and flushed it down the toilet.

 

Where are the dev posts on this?  Why are they not making this their top priority?  It should be on their main page letting us know that it is a priority to them.

 

Not sure what to do with the gold spammers, but for pvp, it is simple, just make the soulstones from the Zen Bean pouches bind on pickup.   Hell, let's get crazy and make all soulstones bind on pickup.  This might keep the bot-trains out of the faction zones. 

 

I'm so sad how this game ended up.  The combat system is to die for compared to the tab based systems of other mmo's.  Also, the limited action set and combo moves are amazing.  I also love how the pvp is geared to 1v1.   At first I thought how novel, because if I were to lose a match there won't be anyone to blame except myself.   Sadly I was mistaken.... I didn't know about the bots and hacks!

 

Devs.... please fix your game.  It has so much potential.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a question , a very simple one directed at all the admins/ game masters / forum mods etc ...etc .. if they even exist 

 

It has been over a month where people have been complaining with evidence about multiple speed hackers in content especially pvp related ones like in arenas and soul stone plains 

Besides " looking into it" could you guys at least have the guts to come out and say what have you done so far ? As a player who has paid money for this game , same way as a lot of people , I believe it is my right to ask that question here. Aren't you guys even a little bit ashamed to say that nothing was done or is being done about these game breaking issues ? 

 

I know what is going to happen now , some forum moderator will lock/move this thread , back into the oblivion of never to see the light of day thread collections. Before you do that ,  could you guys at least try to understand how hard is it for players in this game with these hackers being promoted like this ? Or are we just cash milking machines for you ? Pushing out more and more content and a bunch of cash grab events / items is NOT and I repeat NOT a solution. 

 

All the questions of this sort were swept under the rug without being answered very efficiently in live streams also . Is there a point to all this ? What is support for ? Support says can't do anything , check in forums and on forums the admins says check with support . Do you guys think we are idiots ? That we don't see what is going on ? 

 

Are you indirectly telling the players that the game supports hacking and bots so do what you want without any risk of repercussions ? 

 

Before locking this thread, ask yourselves this , what exactly are you guys here for ? What is the purpose of those lofty job titles when nothing is being done ? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i reported a speed hacker 3 weeks ago, i saw him again yesterday doing the same stuff on soulstone plains

this game is frustrating, i saw too many bots on ss plains (summs yehara - Free field yehara) so they just stay in the middle waiting for Konta (cerulean capture boss) they go-kill then afk until the next spawn, im getting bored for real, nc always destroying the games because they cant handle a shit

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Miner said:

i reported a speed hacker 3 weeks ago, i saw him again yesterday doing the same stuff on soulstone plains

No one cares about it anymore ,the admins are still under the impression that if they ignore it long enough people would stop complaining and reporting hackers

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Tracmar said:

No one cares about it anymore ,the admins are still under the impression that if they ignore it long enough people would stop complaining and reporting hackers

 

You know, I'm starting to think they've, (NCWest), already jumped ship. I mean I haven't so much as seen a closed forum thread all weekend.

 

I think all that remains onboard is the rats, (being us.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quite honestly, it really is starting to get to me. I haven't been bothered by bots at all this whole time but now I can't even get into the 1800 bracket since I keep running into multiple permanently invisible/resisting summoners in a row. It's starting to get depressing since the CC window to get them out of their hacking became infinitely shorter than it used to be. I have only managed to beat one of those bots one round and still lost the match. What makes it worse, I'm starting to run into hackers using Rumblebees, extending the fight even longer than it's usually supposed to be. The single burst Sunflowers was already lazy enough but Rumblebees? It's getting extremely painful just to sit there waiting for load screens to pass by just give up a match because it's something you literally have no chance of beating it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys (NCS..moneygrab) can not even keep the pvp leader boards cleaned up in a daily fashion.  You obviously have no control over this game (ncwest) and are nothing more then a mouthpiece who reads emails sent from the big ncsoft in korea, what a joke of a company ncwest has proven themselves to be with this game and it's handling.  

 

p.s. your weekly live streams are a joke, we can google/youtube all the content you are trying to show us with a experienced player unlike the one(s) showing it in the stream running thru full blast with their "uber" gm powers on.  Enough is enough 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...