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Is anything being done to combat bots?


Fuz

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they can make as many accounts as they would like soooo ban one who cares they can make another... So there will always be bots in game, but that doesn't mean NC is doing everything they can to prevent bot or lower the rate of them..because they are not.... They really need to be 100% more active in game

 

Now if they want to help deter people from buying gold they should ban them/take away the gold they bought since they have more to lose....

 

 

 

 

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lets face it, don't compare blizzard with ncfail by a looong shot, botters was more cautiously back in the wow days for obviously reason and yes blizzard had tons of gm's in game, on hellfire server we had a sponsored guild to be always 1st on the end game content, when they abused a bug they were banned for 72 hours, ncfail gm's are non existent FOR REAL, i said it back in the past and i'll say it again, this bull & shet it's even a bigger catastrophe than aion, i quit playing the game before 10th february and even tough i bought a master pack...ENOUGH its ENOUGH ncfail won't get anymore money from me, i'm done with ncfail games (returning back to mod the crap out of my fallout 4 :D ) P.S the chinese gold farmers ruined every online game that ever existed i consider them "worse than a scum"

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1 hour ago, Giggle said:

 

In more simple terms. Nothing bots do use the internet or anything different than keyboard inputs, so how can an online game easily detect it?

no, they are not playing like real players, far from it, never saw (and will never see) a player immune to damage for more than a few seconds, bots are immune for minutes...

 

not as a player. no way.

 

they need to start checking skill cooldowns server side

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There are players who use an immune hack...they are mostly seen in high platinum/diamond. They are not bots. Just like there are players who macro their characters to move in 3s, and they are not bots because of the outfits they wear/gear they have... unless you want to tell me the bots geared to pirate and played the recent treasure trove lol or took time to farm Naryu for wind god or Junghado for his hat.

 

I believe there is a way to script their game files to detect changed files or something along those lines, but I don't know if NCSoft knows how to do that/is willing to because these people pay money lol.

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25 minutes ago, XO said:

There are players who use an immune hack...they are mostly seen in high platinum/diamond. They are not bots. Just like there are players who macro their characters to move in 3s, and they are not bots because of the outfits they wear/gear they have... unless you want to tell me the bots geared to pirate and played the recent treasure trove lol or took time to farm Naryu for wind god or Junghado for his hat.

 

I believe there is a way to script their game files to detect changed files or something along those lines, but I don't know if NCSoft knows how to do that/is willing to because these people pay money lol.

you can call them whatever you want, for me those are bots

 

 

 

the vid is not mine, just did youtube search for the last week vids

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But they are two different issues lol. One is the gold sellers who spawn all these bots, and need to be removed. The other is players who are probably macroing while at work or while sleeping or are using the problem to get diamond which is cheap. It is incredibly frustrating in arena and once again is killing the thrill for it. If you just group them in with the gold sellers maybe NCSoft will just overlook them.

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11 minutes ago, XO said:

But they are two different issues lol. One is the gold sellers who spawn all these bots, and need to be removed. The other is players who are probably macroing while at work or while sleeping or are using the problem to get diamond which is cheap. It is incredibly frustrating in arena and once again is killing the thrill for it. If you just group them in with the gold sellers maybe NCSoft will just overlook them.

i'd say is the same, but ok, its your choice to have double standards...

 

anyway, i'm just waiting for next week 6V6 in whirlwind valley when the top geared players start to get *cricket*ed by 6 bot parties with 200 attack power, then ill just giggle....

 

 

 

what i wouldn't give to spectate one of those matches....

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They dont "upload" a script. TL;DR version of what they do is: 

- Read out informations (the game saves information in your RAM)

- Evaluate information (i.e "understand" the situation the bot is in)

- Simulate keypresses, which is no different from you actually pressing a key

 

A bot does not need to interact with the game. It's not like a hack, which would change values that should not be possible to change. A hack does influence the memory, a bot is basically a programm simulating a "real player" with stolen information. It's not that easy to detect. As far as i know anti cheat tools like gameguard monitor the whole ram and try to make the above impossible. I dont really use language that work close to the hardware like C, but in general i can tell you that this is no easy task.

 

Maybe somebody who has more knowledge on this whole topic can explain it to you more detailed.

 

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1 hour ago, Dotimus said:

no, they are not playing like real players, far from it, never saw (and will never see) a player immune to damage for more than a few seconds, bots are immune for minutes...

 

 

That is hacking and NOT what OP was talking about, botting is botting. Hacking is a different ball of wax and cannot be solved until Korea LITERALLY RECODES THE ENTIRE SKILL/MOVEMENT SYSTEM PREDICTION VALUES TO SUIT SERVER-SIDE DOMINANCE.

 

Meaning hacking isn't going away for a fat min without an elaborate hotfix(make server check for mass update queues from skill spam via injection)

 

Oh yeah and if KR does re-code the game(unlikely but according to French server Korea is working on it?) if you have over 120 ping you are going to press W and wait a sec or 2 before you start moving, you will feel the lag a LOT more.

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5 minutes ago, Giggle said:

That is hacking and NOT what OP was talking about, botting is botting. Hacking is a different ball of wax and cannot be solved until Korea LITERALLY RECODES THE ENTIRE SKILL/MOVEMENT SYSTEM PREDICTION VALUES TO SUIT SERVER-SIDE DOMINANCE.

 

Meaning hacking isn't going away for a fat min without an elaborate hotfix(make server check for mass update queues from skill spam via injection)

so, just out of curiosity, what do you consider those, boting, hacking or both??

 

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The combat in this game is the best i have ever seen.

i bought the master pack, rank 7 Premium. all hyped up

 

BUT WTF

 

i feel as a destroyer i'm being penalized because you NC, can't figure out how to handle the bots. I'm completely frustrated with this game right now.

im in soulstone plains and watching Force Masters, Spirit Masters, Warlocks running around with 300+ Points and up cause they can just stand out of the Anti Destroyer AOE's.

im not one for Drama but man this "solution" to anti Destroyer bots has just caused them to switch to SM.

 

 

man *cricket* it, im done typing.

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1 minute ago, Dotimus said:

so, just out of curiosity, what o you consider those, boting, hacking or both??

 

Both. ONCE AGAIN, the OP said "Why are BOOOOTTTTSSSS so difficult to get rid of" and I answered. To explain hacking is to write a paragraph on client injections and server client status checks which I'm sure you don't give a **** about so let me simplify hacking.

 

It can't be stopped right now. Gameguard doesn't have the resources(or really any...) to deal with it, they will need to re-code the game or fork a ton of $$$ for a better security measure.

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There's something of a history here... NC taking measures against bots and gold sellers that, while extremely detrimental to the average player, don't seem to actually do anything about bots.

 

Same with the removal of pretty much every item of any value at all from standard dungeon drops (purple gems used to drop... now they're worth 500g+)

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11 minutes ago, Giggle said:

Both. ONCE AGAIN, the OP said "Why are BOOOOTTTTSSSS so difficult to get rid of" and I answered. To explain hacking is to write a paragraph on client injections and server client status checks which I'm sure you don't give a **** about so let me simplify hacking.

 

It can't be stopped right now. Gameguard doesn't have the resources(or really any...) to deal with it, they will need to re-code the game or fork a ton of $$$ for a better security measure.

and there is where you are wrong, just as the client (which is bypassed by hacking tools) can let you only select the skills that are not on  CD, the same can easily  be done server side ( the only problem is they will need a "bit" more CPU resources for each server than they do now)

 

 

 

AND NO, it doesn not require the entire arch of the game to change, it is just needed to implement a  proxy (in-between the servers that recieve your connections and the ones that execute the operations on the databases)

 

 

 

the botting is a bit harder to counter than the hacking as the executables can keep changing the hashes.

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everyone knows the Greediness of NCSOFT is Surpassed by very few companies. Active GM, 1 per server.. hell just 1 damn active GM could slow them down by atleast 80%.

but no that would cost the company money......

 

i dont want to get started on the nerf to animation cancellation. Detroyers dont do a ton of PVE damage as it is unless Fury is up for those 4 seconds.......

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So im not the big talker in this forum, mostly a lurker and reading up on everything thats crazy.

 

What I dont get is why it takes so long to kill the bot menace, some people say its in every mmo game, and thats just not true.

 

Elder scrolls online where I came from, dealt with gold spammers in the couple of mouth from release date, and bots were also gone around 2-3 months, there fix was that you could only delete 3 chars a day and once u did that, it gets worse, first char u could delete again was after 24 hour, second char after 48 hours, 3rd after 3 days.

 

Skyforge, had some serious bot issues for like 3-4 months before they finally found out how to deal with it, cant really say what they did

 

Age of Conan, in my 3 years of playing this no bots were ever there, though I started playing long after release

 

The secret world, never seen any bots either.

 

 

So what should NSwest do, implement what they have done in elder scrolls, or something like that

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Well, in BnS, it takes 7 days to delete a character. Not sure if that really stopped a single bot. In SWTOR, you can have, what? 48 iirc characters per server (16 w/o sub)... the only bots there collect OW material nodes that regenerate in a few seconds, and you can literally earn anything you want in the end-game in a few hours.

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1: The creation of new accounts and bot characters is usually automated, allowing new bots to be created in seconds without any actual "user" interaction. They're created by the hundreds, if not thousands per day.

 

2: The main problem, and the reason there's bots, is gold sellers. Bots often need to be left alone for a while so they can be traced back to the gold sellers "bank" characters (all that gold they try to sell needs to be stored somewhere) in an effort to combat the real problem of gold sellers, and not just pick off their limitless bots here and there.

 

3: While there's countless ways to try and prevent bots, there's also countless ways to bypass those security measures. How many bots you see in a game usually has nothing what so ever to do with the security of the game, and everything to do with how profitable the gold sellers see the game. With the massive need for gold in our crazy gear grind, BnS is basically a gold sellers Golden Goose, they'll go to the ends of the earth to bypass what ever security NC might use to make bank off the game. If players stopped buying gold, the bot problem would start to naturally die off itself, it wouldn't be gone, but it'd be barely noticeable, right now gold sellers are getting rich off lazy/stupid NA players, so there sure as hell not going to tone down their bot operation. If you see a game without a huge bot problem, it's because there's little to not profit to be made from selling gold, and has little to do with the companies efforts or security.

 

-The only thing NC could really do security wise is try to prevent the "hacking" used by bots and players, the bots themselves will be here as long as gold sellers are making a profit.

 

Years ago I was handling bots as a "Volunteer GM" in a game I was playing (Trusted player with GM powers for the sake of handling bots and helping other players).

A lot of my work was on the forums, where every day I'd have to:

-Remove up to 100 gold spam posts.

-Ban 30-50 spam accounts.

-Blacklist tens to hundreds of words/phrases.

-IP ban a number of specific IPs.

-IP ban within a range of proxy clusters.

 

This would often take me an hour or two of work just to clean up the forums each day, and I wasn't the only one doing it, that was just my share.

On the forums things were a lot more cut and dry, see spam? Ban spam.

Things in game are not so simple, it takes a lot more time and effort.

 

Bot control is fighting a losing battle that doesn't end until the players you're fighting for stop buying gold, and the gold sellers see the game as not worth their time.

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