Which way do you like it?

[OniOfTheSword]

Having played games for about 19 years now, far earlier than YouTube/Twitch even existed, I was just curious about the mindset of the player base today.

 

Even today, I would rather learn any new content by experiencing it, than watch a video guide and know all the mechanics before even entering the dungeon (though, I have done this on occasion). The players who made the guides went through the frustration/fun of learning a new dungeon and its mechanics in other versions of the game, and it's a part of any game that I look forward to - challenge.

 

Fortunately, I'm in an active clan, and have friends on other servers who I play with frequently, so I don't have to go through the pain of pugging new content, can attempt all new content on the day it's released, and go through the ups and downs of trying to clear it. I absolutely had a blast clearing Mushin 15F on day 1 though it took a good 40-50 attempts, and also cleared Asura with some friends after a bunch of wipes.

 

So yeah, back to my point/question. Which way do you prefer to do it? Guide before first hand experience or vice versa? And why?

 

PS: I know it may be too much to ask, but please keep flame/hate out of this. It's just legit curiosity.

[TMPDai]

I would also prefer learning while doing it. After all, that's how Korean did it, they didn't have any guide, so they learned it at the same time when they were in the game. However, for me, depends on the difficult level of the dungeon, if it's long and complex and I have failed so many times without figuring out what to do, I will look for videos. Labyrinth and Asura are the only 2 dungeons I watch the guide since their mechanics are pretty complex. For the other dungeons, I learned it from my own experience or from people within the party because I remember stuff like that longer

[LilMsQT]

It is an odd expectation I have noticed when I pug, that they expect you to know the dungeon and also be proficient at it. So it sets the bar that I have to not only watch a vid, which I do to know what I'm in for, but also research my classes role in said dungoen, what mobs to skip over and what the other classes are capable of... and god forbid you make a mistake bc if you do you get admonished for it and non stop text of unconstructive down right nasty fits of rage.  O.0 

 

I did 3 pugs and never again, lol.

One went off so bad on a guy in our group that I had to tell the kid to give it a rest and go open a window and get some freash air and sunlight. He lived in his mom's basement...big suprise. #scareyshutin

 

I go with my clan and we start rollen if someone F's up and dies...then no sweat, go and revive them.

Night n day difference and idk why that is

 

So i like just doing it, but watching the vid as well. 

Even if I watch it, I still have a learning curve when I actually get in there and do it

[DomiSotto]

I prefer all the obligatory dungeons to be of the difficulty that you can pass with an uncoordinated group with maybe a wipe or two by just doing your best.

 

For the dungeons that cannot be passed that way, I firstly want them to be optional with exclusive or bonus loot, and secondly, if I decide to go do a dungeon like that I prefer a written guide.

 

Video guides do nothing for me, because normally they show a group with a rock solid tank that unwaveringly holds the boss where the boss has to be at every given time. The players effortlessly glide through the stages, and divide into groups to handle a correct add with a choreographed precision. The raid-lead commands the troops on the team speak, calling for DCDs and swaps. The whole raid takes 15 minutes to watch, and leaves you with an impression the raid is a piece of cake.

 

Now, in a Real Pug, the boss will be running all over the place after the DPS... and... about an hour into it, on boss #3, the healer finally manages to keep half of the raid up and the boss still hits the enrage... it starts to dawn at you that if it's a piece of cake, it's that of a cement-hard, dry and falvorless rice cake....

 

Seriously, the guide to BHS I watched, the Thrasher hit the ground before spewing poison, and they have never need the guns... and Hae Mujin did not spin a single time, except after he was put in his grave.

 

Yeah, I really do prefer the dungeons that can be passed with a wipe or two if we all just do our best.

[Yetan]

2 hours ago, OniOfTheSword said:

So yeah, back to my point/question. Which way do you prefer to do it? Guide before first hand experience or vice versa? And why?

I think it would depend on how many deaths it would take, and whether or not I'm going with people that did the research ahead of time.

 

If a guide can reduce the number of deaths from 200 to 50 before I could figure out everything the boss does, I'd read a guide first. If this is something I'd figure out after a few deaths, I wouldn't care about a guide. Sometimes, it would take a few death for me to realize that I'd better go read some guide on the fight.

 

If I'm walking into a dungeon using special mechanics with people that know the fight, I'd read a guide first, rather than being a burden and wasting other people's time. If we all walk in knowing nothing at all, then let's all be surprised together (but we'd probably all go back and do some research if we kept failing.)

 

Even after watching a video guide, I still need my own first hand experience to tell "oh, this is what the guide meant" and "this is what I should do when this happens".

 

[Rajak]

I personally prefer the learn as you go method. I like the feeling of exploring it gives you and it may very well allow you to find an alternative way compared to the guide ones. There is something really satisfying about trying different methods on a boss and finally finding one that does the trick. But if I am to go for this method, it will be with friends/clanmates that will be joining for the same reasons and wont mind the possibly multiple wipes.

[Nilkemios]

Back in my younger days, I got a guide for almost all, if not every game I played.

 

Now? Not so much, unless I'm stuck at something bad.

 

I feel that games should be designed for the player to be able to figure it out given enough effort without needing a guide.

 

Unfortunately, regarding MMOs, it seems that most expect you to watch a video first instead of learning as you go. Attempting to do otherwise tend to result in a lot of trial and error deaths from cheap mechanics to figure them out first, as if the developers themselves are intent on punishing you for not reading a guide first. At times, I wonder how those that started without a guide figured it out enough to make their own...

 

If I have to rely on a guide to do anything in a game, then what's the point of playing, really? I'm not making my own choices, just following instructions like...like a bot, almost.

[Fufia]

I prefer learning in game but in BS you go get insulted and you go fail ppl here dont talk and if faill in 1st try all lf pt

If you dont play with friends BS is a shit game (very bad community)

[Yetan]

1 hour ago, DomiSotto said:

Video guides do nothing for me, because normally they show a group with a rock solid tank that unwaveringly holds the boss where the boss has to be at every given time. The players effortlessly glide through the stages, and divide into groups to handle a correct add with a choreographed precision. The raid-lead commands the troops on the team speak, calling for DCDs and swaps. The whole raid takes 15 minutes to watch, and leaves you with an impression the raid is a piece of cake.

I wouldn't call this a video guide, but rather a boss kill video. A real guide should explain the important parts of a fight BEFORE attaching a whole video of killing the boss. I guess I'm just spoiled by the Tankspot and Fatboss videos in the good old days. I really feel BnS is lacking on good game guides in general, not just video guides.

[tandava]

I prefer learning in-game, but the abuse you have to endure from players who learned it before you is almost unendurable. Yesterday I was at Naryu, which I'm now pretty good at after many, many runs. The party let the bosses get too far apart in hp in the end and killed one first. One of the party members started screaming (all caps) about how everyone was "NOOBS!" He went on and on about it.

 

Fortunately no one left despite his raging. We had good DPS: we just needed to do it over with everyone clued in to keeping the boss even.

 

Some dungeons aren't easy to grok from a guide. For instance, I avoided Necropolis before the 4 Challenges Event because I still haven't figured out the best flight path to the first boss area, and I get knocked down by branches half the time. I'm painfully aware everyone has to wait for me while I'm trying again. It's going to take me a few more tries to master this.

 

I also try to help lower level players. It seems like older players are more interested in guiding others.

[BH6010]

I prefer to learn during combat. It makes fight more fun, since you don't know what will happen and need to adapt during fight. I remember my first try on Raijin (and generally Lab) week after update, because I felt my gear wasn't sufficient. I didn't lose extra life and ended soloing this boss, since 2 other members got killed and other 3 ppl team was occupied by Fujin. After that I made some more runs and realised Raijin was harder one.

 

I personally doesn't like term PUG. It sounds like excuse for hardcore players to dish other casual, but still competitive players.

 

As long as people don't give up and try to learn patterns, I don't care how many times we need to redo.

[Ceralune]

Ehh, I'm definitely a "read up a guide and look up videos" kinda girl :v I find that I'm not quite good enough to be able to look at those things and still make no critical mistakes on my first few runs, so it's definitely still a learning process for me without the frustration of wiping constantly. I prefer trying to get the basics down with the help of a guide, and then solidifying them and learning variations of how to handle certain bosses through experience.

[Mucski]

The requirements have been set by sad lonely elitists who are maxed already so they just want to go through content as quick as possible and leave to watch porn or something idk. Furthermore AP does not mean you are better. I for example saw 480 AP guy with 2k crit, and 800 crit damage. So basically his AP = 0. With each content I see the margin raise. When I started 360 was fine, then it became 400, then it became 480, now it's 500 minimum, but you can barely find those anymore. And soon it will be 600, and then maybe 700? LOL! All in all people now just work to cheat as much visible AP they can with equiping whatever gives the more AP regardless its other stats being crap. So GG whoever invented these AP requirements.

 

Oh ... and I have 1700 crit damage with 472 AP ... and I deal more damage then a guy with 550 AP ;)

[Shelly]

I prefer learning it in the dungeon or having someone somewhat guide me on things that can't be learned easily like the totem poles in frozen fang lair. I still don't know what they do tbh. Does the snake guy have to be on top of the circle at all times? Do I have to be in the circle too?!? Like, how do I find out what the totem pole does. I don't have any friends anymore to wipe with, so I just watch videos. I also quit my clan because they honestly made things feel more like a chore. They weren't bad people, but just the tone of a clan. They're like "who wants to do 4 man dailies once" and I'm like. Can I please have some friends to farm clothes with and practice the mechanics and play around with them. Can I have people ohkay with wiping. For example. I rootedd yeti during his cold stage slams, to see if I could Dodge 6 cruxes (summoners can dodge 5) I rooted to want to wait for my SS cd, but everyone instantly got mad cause they were like the FM was gonna frost party. And there were like 4 summoners. So technically 3 seed shrouds and 5 personal iframes, yet all the other summoners were frozen letting FM do his shit. And I'm like God, is no one adventurous?!? I remember when yeti came out and my clan was like don't root. And I asked why. No one answered. Found out later that's it's perfectly fine if I root as long it's not during his big jump and other important stages. Like damn guys. Ugh, but I still can't do 4 man because I need kareoke cues. But I have no one to practice 4 man with anymore. ._. I want buddylist friends, not a clan to do chores with. 

 

[SweetJust]

Being a mmo player for around 7+ years, I like the experience of exploring the new content as well by trial and error, I do let people know im new to the dungeon, and most time. Some kind person takes their time to explain the dungeons as we progress through the dungeon.

 

Just Like sogum lamert, this dungeon is the most fun, enjoyable dungeon in the game. Its big, has lots of mechanics, feels like onces skills is finally really getting used for something productive. First time I was there, we had a sin guiding us through the dungeon, which was on update day. We had only one wipe at dragon, and a couple on azura, and it was awesome to experience the dungeon, without watching a video run of it before hand.

 

Its like I try to avoid watching trailers of movies, I know ill watch anyways.

[Squirrelzzzzz]

People have lost their sense of adventure and excitement I think in the preferred method of let's clear dis for loots baby! I'd much prefer to just jump in the deep end. Nothing goes as smoothly as watching some video anyways and it never will unless all 6 members have done it loads in other regions. I find it fun to yolo learn new dungeons but that only leads to angry researchers.

[KatHead]

3 hours ago, tandava said:

I still haven't figured out the best flight path to the first boss area, and I get knocked down by branches half the time. I'm painfully aware everyone has to wait for me while I'm trying again. It's going to take me a few more tries to master this.

Caution, Spoilers follow:

 

Climb the big rock to the right at the entrance (you know this part) and begin flying. Once in flight, look at your mini map. Keep the arrow that represents your character above the roadway on the mini map and you will never fall again. 

 

@ OP   In my youth I preferred to figure things out for myself. Now in my adulthood I prefer to be prepared as I feel like I am being disrespectful to others when I have zero idea what the mechanics are or I am under geared for the content. I still charge blindly into solo content, like Mushin Tower though as I am only slowing myself by doing so. 

[Meiling]

To the point were people expect you to know what you're doing when you go with randoms. It's reasonable, to me at least. If you're someone that wants to learn the dungeon from actually going in and not know anything then do it with your friends / clan mates first and do trial and error. Even if you watched a video a head of time it's still best to do that since when you enter F8 with randoms, most people just want quick smooth runs to try their luck on souls shields and the likes. to an extent, for 6 man if you *cricket* up a bit it's reasonable, you got extra lives and I would hope most people are understanding. Although, in most dungeons, it's very hard to die 3 times on every single boss even if you don't know the fight or know it well. However, if you expect to go into 4 man F8 and yet to actually do a run of the dungeon then that's a huge issue. You're wasting the time of the other 3 members.

[tandava]

ty for the spoiler! I look forward to trying it!

[JoannaRamira]

First hand experience.

 

I find it impossible for just watching the guide.. well even after watching, one should eventually do that and may end up with something that the guide does not cover.