Sign in to follow this  
Yeti303

Closing the gap between casuals and elites

Recommended Posts

KatHead   

Why do people always assume the wallet warriors are not also no lifers ? 

I have a feeling most wallet warriors play at least 5 - 8 hours daily. 

18 minutes ago, AttacKat said:

Here is an even easier solution -> equalize the dungeons. EG: L25 dungeon normalized to max AP required for that dungeon level, say 150-175, L35 to 250-275, L45 to 350-375.

 

Everyone is on the same playing field no matter how far advanced your AP is, and it will get rid of all those 450AP *required* for Black Ram runs bullsh*t.

Then people treat pve like a lot of pvpers treat arena, never upgrade anything. Whats the point of being elite if you cant be elite ? This idea ends the f2p business model in seconds as it relies so heavily on the whale and being micro transaction driven. 

 

Would anyone anywhere have bought a single trove unlock if it didnt contain material necessary for character progression ? HM Skill / upgrade mats / vastly superior gems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AttacKat   
24 minutes ago, KatHead said:

Then people treat pve like a lot of pvpers treat arena, never upgrade anything. Whats the point of being elite if you cant be elite ? This idea ends the f2p business model in seconds as it relies so heavily on the whale and being micro transaction driven. 

 

Would anyone anywhere have bought a single trove unlock if it didnt contain material necessary for character progression ? HM Skill / upgrade mats / vastly superior gems.

Elites can still do whatever they want, in the dungeons that requires their level of gear -> end game.

 

Elitism has no place in noob/leveling dungeons for any game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KatHead   
Just now, AttacKat said:

Elites can still do whatever they want, in the dungeons that requires their level of gear -> end game.

 

Elitism has no place in noob/leveling dungeons for any game.

Agree, did not read your post very well earlier. Thought you were suggesting that for max level, which wouldnt work. 

 

ty 4 correcting me !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
babeln   
2 hours ago, AttacKat said:

Elites can still do whatever they want, in the dungeons that requires their level of gear -> end game.

 

Elitism has no place in noob/leveling dungeons for any game.

tera had cool system, ilvl restriction to dungeon, but also if you took newbie, (not skilled tag - bellow) you had increased loot drops, amazing thing

ilvl restriction would just paint needed "ap" for given dungeon, and i think it would decrease this ap bloating nonsenses

and also it would be amazing to have skilled tag, inspectable (ran dungeon 10 or more times) or inspectable count of runs, to avoid joining this elitist 580 yeti pug 3 wipes disband loss of time, its insane

HM level could show, how much given person played his class, but no, they leveled it through trove, so no luck there too

EDIT: this is actually old game and i know, that nothing will change, ncsoft is just republishing it for our market, making (milking?) money.

Edited by babeln

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EasleyRR   

So, basically you want players that play 2 hours per day, to be rewarded as someone who play 5hours or more per day?

Useless topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nylisa   
On 5/5/2016 at 5:48 PM, Lurkios said:

1. There should be a power gap between the "casual" and the "elite". Why invest the time/effort if everyone is going to get the same reward anyway?

 

2. I don't see how this would close the gap. The "elite" would be getting the same currency every day as the "casual" as well as a bit more. It's just like dailies are now, giving free stingers and gold for one run - and if you wish, you can run again and again for a lesser reward, but it adds up.

 

3. There is no p2w. Everything you can get with money you can get with time.

3a. NC is a company. NC wants money. Changes designed to get people to stop spending money aren't going to happen.

i agree on first one but only one thing , most of the time its just older players who had longer time to play and gather money to upgrade their gear and call themselves "elite" since they have higher AP , this issue comes from the huge gap between stages of upgrading gear its 10-20 silver then few gold then suddenly goes over 50 gold then over 100 gold , that kind of gap creates issues cause most of the time you don't need to be an elite to get better gear just being an older player or some money to spend on buying gold (legit or otherwise) or just grind same old lower level dailies its all about scaling if you ask me.

 

most people think these "high AP" and requirements for dungeons n means they are real pros but when you go to dungeons with them many of them are just spamming skills or just know the boss mechanics which takes 5-10 run to fully recognize and predict!

 

sadly end game of BnS is not as vast as some people think, im a level 50HM2 KFM with 390 AP grinding my butt off for upgrading my gear but all i see on the list of dungeons and contents is maybe 4-5 dungeons and couple of mushin tower floors which can be marked as end game. the rest of it is just upgrading gear which takes huge amount of time and grind!

 

i enjoyed leveling in BnS WAY more than its end game!

Edited by Nylisa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeti303   

It is funny how everyone thinks that. OH people with more time and effort spent on this game should have better loots and rewards as compared to people who spend less time on this game. Retarded post. Guys cmon, open your damm eyes and read. Firstly, this is a way to HELP people with less time upgrade their stuffs. At the rate content is launching. People who spent a hell lot of time will never be the same as that who spends less. Example, someone with True scorpion VS someone with true profane. Now, I can literally drop 500g on them and they wouldnt even get to true scorpion. Is 500g alot? To me, YES, i probably take 1 year to earn it. Is 500g alot to people who spend alot of time in this game? NO. With their rate of farming (organized 4 man therefore shares all the loots), they easily earn 1/4 of that per day. That being said, if this currency is implemented, it helps the players being left behind to catch up and actually feel relevant in this game. It makes the rich richer BUT IT doesnt make the poor poorer. Some might say, pfft why do this. Well look at your target audience. And see the number of "casuals" vs the number of "elites". I would say bringing in some benefits catered to the casuals would actually help NCSoft generate money in the long run. New players wont have too much trouble with content THEREFORE finds the game actually interesting and keeps playing on. As of now, i feel like they just chug out content to satisfy all these no lifers/wallet warriors and they continue to swipe their cards, while a huge chunk of players are leaving the game everyday. 

 

So to all of you people saying casuals should not be rewarded an easy way to become as strong as elites. Wrong. Thats not my point. My point is, casuals should be rewarded just to enjoy the game. And the elitist.. will also benefit from this system as well (focusing more on alts would be a more doable task).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nylisa   
8 minutes ago, Shukran said:

quote my post and answer it please, then

well he is wrong more time = money = p2w ... nah .

 

but when someone is able to pay 80 euro like pocket change and turn it to gold and upgrade their gear , yep thats p2w if you ask me ;p

 

but the thing is you are not wining in BnS with higher AP :|

Edited by Nylisa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeti303   
13 hours ago, Shukran said:

it is a redundant and useless feature u are asking.

 

u want a coin that is earnt by playing content.

this coin can be used to purchase stuff

 

GOLD: universal value in game.

u can gather GOLDS by playing content aka dungeons, daily, challenges, selling stuff etc.

u can use GOLDS to purchase whatever u want as long as u meet the GOLDS requirement.

 

if i play 24 hours doing all dailies and farming dungeons i am entitled to be more rewarded than you that play 1h a day. because i spent more time. and i put more effort u did.

then there is RNG drops.

 

then there is NCoins and F10.

 

spending money in game is not P2W because time= money. it is P2skip, because time = effort.

u use time= money when u spend time farming content. then the faster the more money. except RNG drops.

 

as already stated: useless thread

Gold is the coin. Also, gold is not easy to come by. Basic economics. Inflation, they increase gold gain, therefore every damm thing becomes more expensive. Ncoins and f10, no thanks, not into swiping cards. You play 24 hours a day for example and earn 100g per day. Someoneelse plays 1hour a day and earn 1g perday. Given that I implement this system, You play 24hours a day and earn 100g + fixed amount of new currency. Someone else plays 1 hour a day and earn 1g +fixed amount of new currency. New currency can be use to buy Moonstones, Soulstones etc etc etc. Person who plays 1 hour use it to upgrade his/her gear. You on the other hand has maxed out gear, you then procceed to sell FOR gold what you've earned through fixed currency. Now you get even richer whereas the poor, dont have to spend GOLD to buy all these ridiculously priced mats. 


RNG is based on probability. What are the chances of a rare item dropping in 100 boxes as compared to 1 box. Will u say 1 box has most probability than 100 boxes? 

 

 

As stated, here is you quoted reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, I'd rather have bolsters like other games have, so as a player who is hopelessly stuck on AP 416, I could participate in content (even if it is limited on a day when a particular dungeon is on the Challenge), and can do battlegrounds, SSP, GHS without worrying how many other people are there and what they are wearing, while collecting the million and one things.

 

I seriously doubt I am going past this upgrade on a weapon (Silverfrost) and unlocking the Siren stages for all accessories to Pirate. Beyond that is basically the "I Will Never Get There" Upgrades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeti303   
10 minutes ago, Nylisa said:

well he is wrong more time = money = p2w ... nah .

 

but when someone is able to pay 80 euro like pocket change and turn it to gold and upgrade their gear , yep thats p2w if you ask me ;p

 

but the thing is you are not wining in BnS with higher AP :|

You are not winning. But you are getting relevant. People welcome you with open arms and legs thinking you are a winner when you have 600AP. But behind the AP, its just another shitty player who knows nothing about dungeon mechanics AND/OR class skills. The thing about people with lower AP is, they 1) get constantly kicked out from higher tier dungeons (not even talking about cold storage or asura, the older yetis, necro and lair). 2) Use LFP and constantly runs into Bots/AFKERS/Level 46 joining in Yeti/Characters equipped with "dokumo gauntlet" and moonwater offering belt. All these are time wasting and honestly, for those out there who just wanna enjoy a game but not as strong as most of them, its kinda sad. LFP has a 80% fail rate IMO. I can even fail in bloodshade harbour -_-

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nylisa   
3 minutes ago, Yeti303 said:

You are not winning. But you are getting relevant. People welcome you with open arms and legs thinking you are a winner when you have 600AP. But behind the AP, its just another shitty player who knows nothing about dungeon mechanics AND/OR class skills. The thing about people with lower AP is, they 1) get constantly kicked out from higher tier dungeons (not even talking about cold storage or asura, the older yetis, necro and lair). 2) Use LFP and constantly runs into Bots/AFKERS/Level 46 joining in Yeti/Characters equipped with "dokumo gauntlet" and moonwater offering belt. All these are time wasting and honestly, for those out there who just wanna enjoy a game but not as strong as most of them, its kinda sad. LFP has a 80% fail rate IMO. I can even fail in bloodshade harbour -_-

 

 

to be honest thats more about people than game if they consider higher AP better players or something ... well

 

 

check this post :D i agree with you , and also check my other reply to this thread

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shukran   
1 hour ago, Yeti303 said:

Gold is the coin. Also, gold is not easy to come by. Basic economics. Inflation, they increase gold gain, therefore every damm thing becomes more expensive. Ncoins and f10, no thanks, not into swiping cards. You play 24 hours a day for example and earn 100g per day. Someoneelse plays 1hour a day and earn 1g perday. Given that I implement this system, You play 24hours a day and earn 100g + fixed amount of new currency. Someone else plays 1 hour a day and earn 1g +fixed amount of new currency. New currency can be use to buy Moonstones, Soulstones etc etc etc. Person who plays 1 hour use it to upgrade his/her gear. You on the other hand has maxed out gear, you then procceed to sell FOR gold what you've earned through fixed currency. Now you get even richer whereas the poor, dont have to spend GOLD to buy all these ridiculously priced mats. 


RNG is based on probability. What are the chances of a rare item dropping in 100 boxes as compared to 1 box. Will u say 1 box has most probability than 100 boxes? 

 

 

As stated, here is you quoted reply.

your thread started : yuou gain Xcoin doing daily quests and gaining daily rewards. so the more quests u do the more Xcoins u gain.

basically = gold.

the more effort the more reward. 

 

we have beans, "red tears", golds.

i dont get why we should need a new coin, other than "for no inflation purpose"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, EasleyRR said:

So, basically you want players that play 2 hours per day, to be rewarded as someone who play 5hours or more per day?

Useless topic.

Useless elitist reply. That thing on your shoulders is there to use, like thinking without the e-genital mesaurement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2016 at 9:39 AM, pgrcrazy said:

Just hand out the weapons (blight, infernal, profane and brightstone) that you lock with stupid rng boxes available as quest rewards instead. You need to do this up until Profane at least, after that people can grind their teeth to dust in silverfrost. It took me two days to get weapon from hujikar and now I am stuck at Profane Jianshi since the start of this week. Profane essences go for 40 ******* silver each.

 

Seriously, do something about the lower levels.

A poor naive child, you haven't even hit the real gear grind wall yet. I long for the days when I just had to kill a field boss and spin a wheel.

1 hour ago, Yeti303 said:

It is Is 500g alot? To me, YES, i probably take 1 year to earn it.

1 YEAR!? You can play this game for less than 2 hrs a day and get 500g in about a 4 to 6 weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EasleyRR   
Just now, Nyanzilla said:

Useless elitist reply. That thing on your shoulders is there to use, like thinking without the e-genital mesaurement.

Nop... I'm far from being an "elitist", i just that if ppl wanna get some really good gear they have to work hard to it instead of playing for 1hour and max his gear just as people who worked hard and expent many hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think BnS-NA is actually an pretty extreme and clear-cut case of how wide the gap is between a successful player and an unsuccessful one, and just how fast that gap forms. There is really absolutely no way I could catch up with someone single, playing this game with a peer-group of like-minded individuals that jumped over from another similar game they played for a few years, on a  6 hours a day every day schedule.

 

The game is simply build to sieve out a player like me, who are not particularly good, and not really invested. Unless you rebuild the whole game, change it conceptually, there is absolutely nothing that will keep someone who is not this game's addict in.

 

I like the skeleton of this game, but I am both unwilling and unable to succeed in it.

Edited by DomiSotto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all,i havent read all that ppl posted,couse i need to run some errands atm :P

 

I am all in favor to close the gap,couse that makes perfect sense in my mind,more ppl able to run the dungeons,easier for us to form parties.

 

This game is perfect for that,it has a distinction of 6m and 4m.The casuals can tag along to do the 6m and the so called elites,i dont rly like the term,but those who play a lot,those who pay can do perfect the 4m and not all can do 4m.Seems pretty ok to me.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shukran   
1 hour ago, Velrofica said:

 

 

team 400ap

arguable

 

- HM 9 means a lot of free ap.

- afaik  FM uses legenday skill.

- team composition=  best DPS in game with a summoner which can spam dps like a baws.

- they finish it at ENRAGE timer.

 

and u want to use it as an example of the AVERAGE team composition?

so because of those 4 players that almost failed yeti4, now everyone can do it?

 

it is the best example of why there are ap limits and ap requirements in game lobby.

what if someone missplayed? or someone died because reasons?

 

this video shows me reasons i will always look for players that have same AP regardlessly the dungeon (for 4 men). for 6 men i want to do it easy and brainlessly as much as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lurkios   
3 hours ago, Yeti303 said:

So to all of you people saying casuals should not be rewarded an easy way to become as strong as elites. Wrong. Thats not my point. My point is, casuals should be rewarded just to enjoy the game. And the elitist.. will also benefit from this system as well (focusing more on alts would be a more doable task).

This is disgusting. Truly, this is absolutely sickening to read.

 

How strong is your sense of entitlement that you think you should be rewarded just for being the special snowflake you are? Screw the guy who spent hours grinding, screw the guy who practiced and practiced to refine his skills - you'll take your reward on a silver platter, and make it snappy.

 

When you're old enough to get a job how about sending me half your paycheck? I know I didn't really do any work or anything, but I should get rewarded just for enjoying myself.

 

No. Like anything else in life, if you want the reward put in the time and effort. Seriously, get over yourself.

Edited by Lurkios

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think what he is trying to say is that those of us left in the dust might need a pair of shoes to walk the tracks, while the locomotive has already arrived to its destination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lurkios   
5 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

I think what he is trying to say is that those of us left in the dust might need a pair of shoes to walk the tracks, while the locomotive has already arrived to its destination.

There's already a mechanic for this in the game, though it hasn't had time to fully mature yet. Upgrades work on diminishing returns. Each step up costs more and more, takes longer and longer, but the relative benefit (power increase) is more or less the same. It's kind of like HM levels, you can spend a day grinding and make it to level 3, a couple days for level 4 and level 5 will probably take you a week, but the power increase between level 1-2 and 4-5 is more or less the same.

 

Those who play less often will find themselves just under the "elite" - whereas the "elite" will be putting in 400% of the time for 10% more power. You don't need to the absolute best to complete any content in the game, leave that for people who've earned it.

Edited by Lurkios

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this