dmoe33

Sooooo NC said they didnt wanna become p2w. They lied

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dmoe33   

Sooo when NC said they didnt wanna make bns p2w if it wasnt obvious before it is now that that was a blatant lie it was bad when they released RNG boxes back when moonwater plains was still relevant they then released Treasure trove which is a huge P2W scheme and now they release silverfrost RNG boxes which is again another example of P2W. Now some of u are gonna say "oh jus farm gold and use currency exchange its not p2w" im sorry but ur wrong and thats just straight up damage control. Even if u wanted to do it with gold it would be WAAAAAAY less efficient then using $$$$ because 1 RNG sucks and 2 Things like these crash currency exchange which then results in being able to 1 further push the ppl who spend on the game even further then they already can be and 2 further screw over the f2p group by pushing them farther and farther behind like they already are. Now not everythings a race yea but u dont exactly want to spend forever upgrading also i personally like to progress fast which when silverfrost hit it was slowed but i was ok but then these P2W aspects came into play and now just because im an f2p player i am extremely far behind part of it being me not being able to play much and farm dungs much but the majority due to these P2W aspects NC are introducing. Im all for rewarding people who support ur game and giving em good stuff but this is pushing it wayy too much. Honestly im playing less and less everyday due to other stuff and the demotivating atmosphere NC has created with these P2W models. Im not butthurt on not being able to upgrade as fast im butthurt cause people are getting a significant advantage over me jus for spending cash on the game thus affecting me because people keep recruiting for higher and higher requirements for dungs (i do pug runs) thus reducing the overall partys i am able to join thus affecting my experience resulting in killing the mood to play or spend cash on here. TBH shoulda seen it coming and i dont expect these to stop, its been proven NC dont care and are just milking da game if it wasnt proven in ur face before it definitely is now.

 

Feels free to post ur opinions but please keep it to a civil discussion 

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dmoe33   
7 minutes ago, Syanonn said:

Y THEY KILLED CURRENCY EXCHANGE AGAIN!

was going close to 1:30 QQ

IkR i miss when it was 1:70 ;-; 

 

16 minutes ago, TigerKFM said:

Holy indentation, spaces, tab batman!

Im always lazy when writing posts and just stuff online in general not writing an essay im trying to relay info so its not rlly important... and im super lazy ^^

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Arkragon   

The thing about P2W is that people have different definitions regarding what P2W means. Some people say that the game isn't technically P2W because there aren't cash exclusives that give people an unfair advantage to others, and F2P people will just have to grind for the same items. Essentially, it's Time vs. Money and not P2W. On the other hand, there will be people saying that P2W is simply having the ability to spend money to get speedier upgrades because cash can be converted to in-game gold. NCSoft may be using the first definition to justify their claim that they aren't being P2W, whereas you, and many like you, are using the second definition to say that NCSoft broke their word.

 

Now, do I think it's P2W? Yeah, but it doesn't really bother me since I'll just have to spend time to get the same items that they get. The only issue I have with this is if down the road they release content that cannot be done unless I spend money. i.e. Needing at least 700 AP to do a dungeon or storyline quest while mat costs are insanely high which is equivalent to thousands of hours of grinding. If this occurs, then that's when I'll have to quit the game. Good thing right now the current content is doable at True Pirate, and grinding for True Breeze isn't completely unachievable if need be.

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dmoe33   
13 minutes ago, Arkragon said:

The thing about P2W is that people have different definitions regarding what P2W means. Some people say that the game isn't technically P2W because there aren't cash exclusives that give people an unfair advantage to others, and F2P people will just have to grind for the same items. Essentially, it's Time vs. Money and not P2W. On the other hand, there will be people saying that P2W is simply having the ability to spend money to get speedier upgrades because cash can be converted to in-game gold. NCSoft may be using the first definition to justify their claim that they aren't being P2W, whereas you, and many like you, are using the second definition to say that NCSoft broke their word.

 

Now, do I think it's P2W? Yeah, but it doesn't really bother me since I'll just have to spend time to get the same items that they get. The only issue I have with this is if down the road they release content that cannot be done unless I spend money. i.e. Needing at least 700 AP to do a dungeon or storyline quest while mat costs are insanely high which is equivalent to thousands of hours of grinding. If this occurs, then that's when I'll have to quit the game. Good thing right now the current content is doable at True Pirate, and grinding for True Breeze isn't completely unachievable if need be.

Yea this is what i usually say well what i usually say when discussing p2w is defining winning cause really in an MMo there is no way to "win" but really no matter what way u look at it its obvious its a scummy way a company is tempting players to spend money on their game and thus gaining a pretty big advantage over others who dont. Usually i wouldent be too upset about it back when RNG moonwater boxes were released i wasnt happy but i was like meh, now with content coming out so fast and requiring better and better gear this is just an obvious cash grab exploiting their players if content slowed (which is a different topic entirely) it would help but still not much. Basically its obvious what NC is doing and its not good

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Arkragon   
3 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

Yea this is what i usually say well what i usually say when discussing p2w is defining winning cause really in an MMo there is no way to "win" but really no matter what way u look at it its obvious its a scummy way a company is tempting players to spend money on their game and thus gaining a pretty big advantage over others who dont. Usually i wouldent be too upset about it back when RNG moonwater boxes were released i wasnt happy but i was like meh, now with content coming out so fast and requiring better and better gear this is just an obvious cash grab exploiting their players if content slowed (which is a different topic entirely) it would help but still not much. Basically its obvious what NC is doing and its not good

 

Yeah, having this "P2W" model coupled with fast content releases doesn't seem too good for the future of the game. As a former moderator for a similar game company (Aeria Games) the game I moderated was minimally P2W since (almost) all cash does is buy skins for your character and skins for your guns. Eventually, the game was shut down, so MAYBE it wouldn't be a good idea for BNS, but then again it was an FPS and not an RPG, and the playerbase is much larger here than it was there.

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MrBlade   

Sorry i can't speak good english here but i can only say don't expect much from European gaming compare to asia gaming.

 

Bns TW server premium are way better than Bns NA as they give free points everyday if ur the premium user. Those points was given for players to get free costume or u may like to buy other stuffs.

 

I can only say European gaming industry are way too fail. And when population getting low and the game will be closed. Please wake up....

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dmoe33   
45 minutes ago, Arkragon said:

Yeah, having this "P2W" model coupled with fast content releases doesn't seem too good for the future of the game. As a former moderator for a similar game company (Aeria Games) the game I moderated was minimally P2W since (almost) all cash does is buy skins for your character and skins for your guns. Eventually, the game was shut down, so MAYBE it wouldn't be a good idea for BNS, but then again it was an FPS and not an RPG, and the playerbase is much larger here than it was there.

u talkin AVA? I know aeria games was pretty bad still play one of there MMOs) but they greatly improved if it was only cosmetics it would be fine which this one does and there is items u can use to upgrade ur gear but honestly it dosnt give u such a huge a advantage ofc it gives u a nice boost but not as much as bns and u can get it in f2p means. Anyway thats a bit off topic but for bns since content comes so fast u need to have ur gear up to date in order to complete it thus if u cant get it as fast as others do u start to fall behind which then results in u not being able to enjoy the content that comes at a fast rate thus hurting ur experiance. so yea if it was only cosmetics or there was another reliable f2p method to get em sure but in their current state no.

 

19 minutes ago, LadyGamerluv said:

It's 'pay to progress faster" really, or better yet 'pay to catch up'.

Well as i stated above with content coming out so fast u could define "winning" as progressing in an mmo although u can define it how u like. Whatever u define it as its not right and NC knows it yet they still follow through.

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Hongmoon   

Funny how people want to use the literal meaning of p2w to defend nc. Winning items from the rng box is the literal definition of p2w, doesn't matter what's inside it. You're not buying the item because you wanted to get really expensive keys/unseal charms. You want to buy it because you want to win exclusive costumes or gems or mat bundles. That's what literal "pay to win" means.

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Malign   

Who really cares. F2P games really need whales to survive. Deal with it for find a P2P game. If you're worried about not being able to find groups, then find a casual clan. If you can't find a casual clan, make one. It's not really that hard.

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maybe it is p2w but the question is what does the 'win' means here? You can do literally every current ingame content without pay. Only exception may be whirlwind valley, but even there can group of coordinated 'free' guys easily *cricket* group of 650+ chaotic 'cashers'.

IMO real p2w would be for example scorpio weap requirement for asura. No scorpio weapon, no Sogun's lament. But as i said above, p2w is not required anywhere.

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dmoe33   
5 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

maybe it is p2w but the question is what does the 'win' means here? You can do literally every current ingame content without pay. Only exception may be whirlwind valley, but even there can group of coordinated 'free' guys easily *cricket* group of 650+ chaotic 'cashers'.

IMO real p2w would be for example scorpio weap requirement for asura. No scorpio weapon, no Sogun's lament. But as i said above, p2w is not required anywhere.

Its not required but upgrading ur weapon is a huge part of bns and u may not need scorpio now but im talking later down the road once we get harder dungs that need higher tier gear. People right now are recruiting 550 AP for asura when u can do it fine with like 500 so if they rec 500 now what will it be next patch? p2w isnt required anywhere in anygame (u could say p2p but not rlly win), even if,forget upgrading weapon part its the fact a player who pays money gets a pretty significant advantage over a f2p player and the thing is NC know it, they know what they are doing and go through with it, they know players who spend money will get a big advantage and tbh it kills the game heres y: Why do we grind dungs over and over again? cause we want to upgrade our character right? if we can jus pay for all of it then whats the point? not only that is that it is INTENTIONAL. Like i said im all for treating ur paying players good but this isnt that 

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What NCSoft is doing now is officially selling essential upgrade materials. But instead of making it one-time payment where players can just get the amount they need that worth the money they spend, NCSoft decide to do with RNG boxes with very low rate to big batch of materials, since it will trigger the gambler's instinct and make players to buy the box again and again. Think of casino in real life. It's a legal way to burn your money with little return.

 

A few will get lucky and catch the batch, be happy with it and end their spending, while the majority of box-losers will be baited into buying even more box until they feel they're lucky enough, reach their intended money for the event, or discover themselves overspending.

 

If you think it's just P2P (Pay-to-Progress), then NCSoft can sell an item that directly upgrade your first HM weapon to the Lengendary tier without a single material. It can cost like 50,000 Ncoins, and can still consider as Pay-to-Progress, since you can still acquire the same thing in-game, just that you will need to grind for a very long long time, or spending an unholy amount of money to buy gold legally/illegally.

 

However, NCSoft is not that stupid: why selling something one-time, while they can make it into like 500 RNG boxes that worth 50k coins? The chance that the players will lose all the money spending on 500 boxes without getting what they want, and spend even more. It also gives an illusion of winning for lesser wallet-warriors to think that they have the same chance to win as whales, though the ones who actually win is very minority.

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H2H   
3 hours ago, dmoe33 said:

 

 

Im always lazy when writing posts and just stuff online in general not writing an essay im trying to relay info so its not rlly important... and im super lazy ^^

If it's not important enough to use punctuation correctly, or at least to the point where its legible, its not important enough to post.

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12 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

Its not required but upgrading ur weapon is a huge part of bns and u may not need scorpio now but im talking later down the road once we get harder dungs that need higher tier gear. People right now are recruiting 550 AP for asura when u can do it fine with like 500 so if they rec 500 now what will it be next patch? p2w isnt required anywhere in anygame (u could say p2p but not rlly win), even if,forget upgrading weapon part its the fact a player who pays money gets a pretty significant advantage over a f2p player and the thing is NC know it, they know what they are doing and go through with it, they know players who spend money will get a big advantage and tbh it kills the game heres y: Why do we grind dungs over and over again? cause we want to upgrade our character right? if we can jus pay for all of it then whats the point? not only that is that it is INTENTIONAL. Like i said im all for treating ur paying players good but this isnt that 

the game is slowly evolving. Later down the road will be the average AP again higher then now cuz everybody is progressing.

I am almost free player (bought prem) and i have 525AP with true pirate and true sirens eq. And i have no problem to find asura if i want.... 4man is harder to find for me, but when i create my own 4man pt, its ez.

You are saying that player who pays have significant advantage over f2p player. But which advantage? Where? In soloing dungs? Maybe in ssp, ok. But it is all mostly about knowing the mechanics. 500ap guy will outdps 650ap guy who is constantly dead/healing. And since there are not some kind of immortality potion for cash, you cannot buy 'skill' to avoid boss attacks.

Eventually, you can buy AP advantage, which is not so huge advantage nowdays

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dmoe33   
13 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

 

the game is slowly evolving. Later down the road will be the average AP again higher then now cuz everybody is progressing.

I am almost free player (bought prem) and i have 525AP with true pirate and true sirens eq. And i have no problem to find asura if i want.... 4man is harder to find for me, but when i create my own 4man pt, its ez.

You are saying that player who pays have significant advantage over f2p player. But which advantage? Where? In soloing dungs? Maybe in ssp, ok. But it is all mostly about knowing the mechanics. 500ap guy will outdps 650ap guy who is constantly dead/healing. And since there are not some kind of immortality potion for cash, you cannot buy 'skill' to avoid boss attacks.

Eventually, you can buy AP advantage, which is not so huge advantage nowdays

ur exactly right about that u need to know mechanics of boss overall then u should check ur gear but again this is now and im more worried about later down the road when we get harder dungs (not familiar with other versions) which will need higher end gear but yes u are correct u need to know mechanics, however even if u just forget about the gear upgrading part its NC intentionally exploiting their players to get a profit and dont get me wrong i realize their a company and they aim to make profits but seriously this is low trove was low first rng boxes was low and future events im anticipating it to be low. The advantage im talking about is they are getting a crazy head start and dont have to grind that much with these items. Also its not just AP thats a factor which many people dont realize u also need things like crit and cdmg which buying these boxes will allow u to get more of through the use of upgrade mats which causes them to progress much much faster. Thus leaving u behind and in how fast content is coming out if u want to enjoy the new content (dungs) then u gotta have the gear (yes and knowledge) to clear it and if u dont have it or are undergeared u wont find partys easily (pug runs). Basically u can look at it from both ways but whichever way u choose both of em point to one thing: this is wrong, exploitation of players and no care shown to what players are requesting and ignoring the issues. If they at least fixed some issues it wouldent be as bad.

 

28 minutes ago, H2H said:

If it's not important enough to use punctuation correctly, or at least to the point where its legible, its not important enough to post.

Its a fourm for a video game chill

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yes, it is wrong. But i guess we have to get over it cuz such concept will be always in f2p games, regardless of the staff 'promises' ^^

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H2H   
9 minutes ago, dmoe33 said:

 

 

Its a fourm for a video game chill

Only read the bottom part, that one line. Rest was illegible.  And you can't tell me what to do. Especially when you can't even spell "forum".

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dmoe33   
2 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

yes, it is wrong. But i guess we have to get over it cuz such concept will be always in f2p games, regardless of the staff 'promises' ^^

im playing 2 other f2p games atm none of em treat their players this bad i mean its obvious they are just milking it but they dont even try to hide it

 

6 minutes ago, H2H said:

Only read the bottom part, that one line. Rest was illegible.  And you can't tell me what to do. Especially when you can't even spell "forum".

Dont see how u cant read computer text and checking my sentence structure isnt the point of this thread, if u have nothing to add other then insults then idk y u commented 

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7 minutes ago, H2H said:

Only read the bottom part, that one line. Rest was illegible.  And you can't tell me what to do. Especially when you can't even spell "forum".

noboyd liek gramarr nazys u kno?

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dmoe33   
7 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

noboyd liek gramarr nazys u kno?

LOL

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Zuf   
3 hours ago, H2H said:

If it's not important enough to use punctuation correctly, or at least to the point where its legible, its not important enough to post.

And it's surely isn't important enough to read.

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Can't agree more with OP, and you guys complaining 1:30 in currency exchange, EU server has 1:15 already. 

 

This system is made in order to devaluate the gold so everytime spenders does have a nicer time in detriment of non-spenders who are seeing everytime harder and harder to obtain shop stuff, from daily limitations to a false "supply and demand law" as NCSoft stated on their streams. For example other day someone literally bought from currency exchange all the gold available. Still I couldn't set a new price, the gold selling function was telling me whats the minimum and whats the maximum. I even think some wallet warrior are controlling this market and well I do believe NCSoft should interfere on this matter making impossible to devaluate the gold that fast, limiting amount of how many you can buy or sell and how fast you can undercut because that is what is making devaluate the gold that fast. Obviously they wont because this system favoritizes them spenders and estimulates sales of NCoin.

 

Also p2w is not only if you need certain gear and to advance you gotta pay because otherwise you can't continue. It is pay2win, but there are other ways of p2w and we were told by NCSoft "its not going to be grindy, its not going to be p2w" and both are lies, its grindy as hell and if you want to progress faster or do not want to be left behind you got to spend money or an insane amount of time, in any of the cases at the end it comes to pay2win, some ppl in my server had legendary weapon like 2nd day before the patch was out and they are over 700AP, furthermore they know how to play so if you meet them in 6v6 you are going to get rekt hard unless your team is like 6 guys diamond in 1v1 arena and slightly behind in gears than those guys which sounds like you either spend 5k Euro/dollar or you won't be that geared.

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