Fighting > Stealthing Past Trash Mobs

[Shadovvv]

 

Why does everyone like fighting these extremely high HP trash mobs? They give no incentive for being killed, are not required to die to progress, and waste everyone's time and durability; they're completely pointless to kill. An Assassin in the party can carry groups past trash mobs, for very little time consumed and no durability cost.

 

In about 99% of every non-clan run my requests to stealth the group past mobs are ignored. Rarely I'm asked to stealth the group, but even so someone else decides to zerg in. Why does everyone do this?

[vita]

To be honest I didn't even realize they have high HP, cause my group just gather them all and burn them down quick, but we don't have a Sin so we do have to fight them anyway.

PUG rarely read chat anyway unfortunately.

[Tsuchiryu]

Because dealing with these mobs are not THAT big a waste of time and durability, frankly. Besides, it's just mobs. I care more about good party coordination on bosses anyway, that's where it will actually matter.

[spongemike]

coz 90% of the time when there is a sin he RUSH AHEAD go invisible and leave the group behind. At least that's my experience.

[Jaite]

Takes longer to type to a sin to stealth party than to kill trash mobs that takes 2 seconds to kill. Or reversed sin typing to party.

 

On top of that there's always always someone who accicently attacks xxxx mobs and you have to kill anyways. Group stealth in my opinion pretty useless in PvE.

[Tsuchiryu]

For starters, one would have to assume there's a Sin in the party who's specced to party stealth, which is not always the case. If it is the case, it's too much hassle to ask one to do it for something rather trivial in this specific scenario. At least one or two will zerg rush towards the mobs that do requre being killed while dragging along those who don't. Just a little more kills in the process and, if done without dying, really not that big a deal.

 

Honestly, it's just you being a tad too picky over efficiency that's not exactly needed. Whatever gets it done without dying is a valid approach IMO. So yeah, party stealth for that particular scenario: not useless, but not exactly needed or critical either.

[Shadovvv]

2 hours ago, Jaite said:

Group stealth in my opinion pretty useless in PvE.

 

 

If you think group stealth is useless now, wait until dungeons like these.

8 hours ago, Tsuchiryu said:

Because dealing with these mobs are not THAT big a waste of time and durability, frankly. Besides, it's just mobs. I care more about good party coordination on bosses anyway, that's where it will actually matter.

It's a huge inconvenience to die to the mobs, and then die multiple times to Asura to where your weapon breaks. Even moerso when people kill the shieldbearers before the trash and then trigger Iruga's Shadows to slowly fire area of effect projectiles that can't be reflected; as far as I'm aware the only way to have him stop doing that is to die to him so he resets.

 

In almost every non-clan run I've been on people have died to both the trash mobs on the way to Ken/Gen and Iruga simply for fighting them. If there's an option that avoids risks, whether it be dying or missing your strongest skills, then there's no reason not to take it.

1 hour ago, Tsuchiryu said:

For starters, one would have to assume there's a Sin in the party who's specced to party stealth, which is not always the case.

It takes two seconds just to respec into party stealth, which can be done on the minute-long Ken/Gen's loot bidding, and then respec back during a 10 second ready check on Iruga.

[Rajak]

23 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

 

Why does everyone like fighting these extremely high HP trash mobs? They give no incentive for being killed, are not required to die to progress, and waste everyone's time and durability; they're completely pointless to kill. An Assassin in the party can carry groups past trash mobs, for very little time consumed and no durability cost.

 

In about 99% of every non-clan run my requests to stealth the group past mobs are ignored. Rarely I'm asked to stealth the group, but even so someone else decides to zerg in. Why does everyone do this?

Personally I don't mind people clearing the mobs on the way to iruga, but I really get annoyed when I say that I'll stealth or pull during the fazes to the first boss and the players on my side go ahead agroing everything and getting themselves killed. I mean a sin can use both party stealth and party pull and you won't have to fight a single unnecessary mob, yet you refuse to make your life a lot easier. And not to mention that you'll be getting free rides with the party pull while just standing there.

[Shadovvv]

12 minutes ago, Rajak said:

Personally I don't mind people clearing the mobs on the way to iruga, but I really get annoyed when I say that I'll stealth or pull during the fazes to the first boss and the players on my side go ahead agroing everything and getting themselves killed. I mean a sin can use both party stealth and party pull and you won't have to fight a single unnecessary mob, yet you refuse to make your life a lot easier. And not to mention that you'll be getting free rides with the party pull while just standing there.

Exactly. It's incredibly disrespectful, selfish, and rude to ignore someone and then be an inconvenience just because they tried to selflessly avoid the risks of unnecessary combat.

[Rajak]

14 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Exactly. It's incredibly disrespectful, selfish, and rude to ignore someone and then be an inconvenience just because they tried to selflessly avoid the risks of unnecessary combat.

The ironic part is that people still *cricket* if you don't skip trash in BSH but they refuse to do so on the currently hardest dungeon of NA/EU versions.

[Tsunakai]

taks about 5 seconds for a party to clear this trash provided they have 2 WL/Sum/FM hence why it's really not a big deal. Stop trying to up the importance of your class, your actually kinda useless in first 2 bosses of sogun since you have jack shit for CC.

[Hongmoon]

1 hour ago, Tsunakai said:

taks about 5 seconds for a party to clear this trash provided they have 2 WL/Sum/FM hence why it's really not a big deal. Stop trying to up the importance of your class, your actually kinda useless in first 2 bosses of sogun since you have jack shit for CC.

You're kinda useless too since you don't know anything about sins and just start spouting lies.

 

Stealth is not required for the run. No matter how butthurt it makes op feel, it's not gonna change anything. It's not like bsh or necro where you will be left behind if you don't skip mobs.

[Ceralune]

42 minutes ago, Hongmoon said:

Stealth is not required for the run. It's not like bsh or necro where you will be left behind if you don't skip mobs.

^ Ultimately, I think this is why. These segments of mobs are small enough that killing them or skipping them won't make a -huge- difference in the long run, and people aggroing them aren't in a state where they will be flat out left behind if they do so. Tbh, it's not like most PUGs wait for you to stealth in bsh either. I don't even spec stealth bomb anymore in PUG for 6-man, 4-man might be a different scenario sometimes since players there tend to be more experienced.

1 hour ago, Tsunakai said:

taks about 5 seconds for a party to clear this trash provided they have 2 WL/Sum/FM hence why it's really not a big deal. Stop trying to up the importance of your class, your actually kinda useless in first 2 bosses of sogun since you have jack shit for CC.

I agree with the first part of what you're saying, but the rest of your post makes me really question your validity. It's fairly easy for sins to spec double stun/KD; heck, depending on my party set-up in 4-man I sometimes end up stunning 2 blue adds for Iruga in one go. While I agree with your sentiment, at least kind of, OP's complaint has validity - given the speedster mentality of most people in this game, it's odd that they don't want to let sins help them make the run faster, especially in 4-man. While I think there's a reason for this, please stop trying to belittle a class that it seems you don't even know much about.

[Shadovvv]

4 hours ago, Hongmoon said:

Stealth is not required for the run.

You know, the same thing can be said for Frost Sheath, as well as Sogun's Lament's recommended stat/gear levels. It's not "required", but it's a huge crutch for survival. Stealthing past mobs is no different.

 

My point is, if someone offers you a "low risk, good reward" option, why ignore the offer and take the "high risk, bad reward" option?

6 hours ago, Tsunakai said:

Stop trying to up the importance of your class, your actually kinda useless in first 2 bosses of sogun since you have jack shit for CC.

Our class has quintuple Knockdowns and Stuns, and we're fully capable of doing double with ease. I'm sorry but if you're going to claim my lack of knowledge on Force Masters then I don't think you should be belittling Assassins for the same reason in your case (See? I didn't spout any insult there now, did I?).

 

If you still think assassins are useless, wait a few months where only group stealth becomes mandatory to clear boss mechanics, see the video above.

[Tsunakai]

Can you stun and KD completely unassisted on first bosses?

[Shadovvv]

1 hour ago, Tsunakai said:

Can you stun and KD completely unassisted on first bosses?

 

 

[Rajak]

20 hours ago, Tsunakai said:

Can you stun and KD completely unassisted on first bosses?

A lightning build sin can easily spec 2 KDs and 2 or even more stuns without loosing any DPS from it.

[Shadovvv]

First 4-man Sogun's Lament with a 550-570 APs of Force Master, Summoner, and Destroyer. As expected, everyone ignored my stealth offer. As predicted, at least two people died on the first and second hallways, three people died on the third hallway, I died in none of them.

 

Totally much faster than stealthing past unscathed, yeah?

[Tsuchiryu]

In all fairness, my arguments didn't take 4-man into account since I only do 6-man stuff. So my point still stands for 6-man.

[Tsunakai]

Did 4man today, 2 BD 2 FM, we annihilated the trash in the hallways without a scratch. Took no time at all.

[Shadovvv]

Good for you but not everyone has that living luxury.

[Tsunakai]

Can't cheese your way past mushin floor 12 mobs kid.

[Shadovvv]

What does Mushin's Tower have to do with this? Seriously dude, all you've been doing is ignoring the whole point of this thread, not to mention make false claims about Assassins and show no respect when you've been proven wrong.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not the mobs can be killed, do you really want to risk head and neck dying to them when killing them simply removes an obstacle when there's other less risky ways around it? It's already rude and disrespectful enough as it is to ignore a supportive offer that benefits the entire party and reduces workload.

[Tsunakai]

When your class as a whole starts respectfully offering to sealth the whole party thru mobs instead of just themselves, when they start using their CCs on 1st 2 bosses instead of saying "not enough skill points". When they start having a single concern for anyone other than themselves as a whole, then they can garner some respect. 

 

Instead of criticising people not taking your help, maybe you should direct that criticism towards the other sins who don't bother to offer help or contribute, because they are the ones creating the distrust. Stop talking up your own class and start talking TO your class, and maybe you will see some people's perspectives of assasins change.

[Kyserzose]

Sin's stealth do have its use, (ex: yeti mushroom tunnels). Maybe Sin's "risk of dying" is cause by their mediocre aoe, makes them want to skip trash mob groups, while other aoe class find that killing group mobs is easier than waiting to gather up for stealth. (some people in the group might be nickel and dime bidding on loots). I often see 2 or 3 players intentionally group up the mobs to aoe them down in few seconds. Sometime they pull so many, they pull the shield guys too lol.