any class that can counter blade dancer?

[SpartanGamer]

2 hours ago, glaphen said:

The *cricket* are you talking about, Boot they removed its ability to stun people casting spells with cast bars. It still stuns on form 1 on defending targets, even on the ground, who the *cricket* uses form 2. BM and BD have the exact same ways to aerial, BD does .4 more damage per hit with Five Point Strike and .4 with Take Flight, only way BD has better is HM Vortex parry resetting cooldown which most people don't even have and Maelstrom is still better, BM also has more ways to CC so they can launch easier.

 

You can animation cancel with HM LMB, BDs only animation cancel is on the same cooldown as every classes escape ability, BM can do it at any time. BD burst is completely negated by decent players.

 

People without escape are going to sit there and let you load your entire CC kit into them, BM has 100 to 0, BD does not besides people failing to counter soul stab and then having already wasted escape on a knockdown or some shit. This is not the 45 patch anymore BM has a better kit than BD and as soon as they get HM Z they will be top tier.

Yeah, that was my mistake on the stun part. I haven't played BM in a long time and stopped before that patch went live.  X along with C specced for defensive penetration are the only ways BM can actually break through defensive moves, but require you to be in melee range, which is quite risky. If you want to compare the LBD's equivalent, which is their F specced to guardbreak which disables defense for 6 seconds after the defense break, that is much much stronger-- and on top of that IT IS RANGED/16 *cricket*ing meters. Also speaking about ranged moves, this reminds me of this "BM also has more ways to CC so they can launch easier", which is not true. Well, they do have more ways to cc, but their cc is harder to land, making it more counterable and risky. Their cc moves are riskier because of their limited range, forcing them to get close to the opponent, whereas, an LBD can use their V from about a mile away, which also happens to conveniently penetrate defense, oh and deflect...

 

LBDs take flight has a 6 second lower base cd and it only cost 1 focus. Bm's take flight is 24 second base cd, and it costs 2 focus. In order for a BM's takeflight to get to the same level as a LBD's, you have to put 2 points into it. This is proving LBD's superiority to a BM even more. 

 

BD's aerial combo after the daze/stun is stronger than a BMs as well. They have more ways to cc, but LBDs cc is easier to do and set up. So after you take out rush(stun) and fivepoint, the next cc LBDs will commonly use to get into an aerial is easier to land than the next cc of a BM. Not only that, but a BM has more windows of vulnerability than an LBM, not considering their numerous iframes either, so they are more open to an attack if they are engaging. An lbm can just spam their tab when in melee range and go immediately into a cc if they see/create an opening, all the while being relatively safe majority of the time-- just with tab. If an LBM pops their z, then you literally do not have to think at all about playing reactively to the opponent and just spam your moves freely...

 

"You can animation cancel with HM LMB"-- The *cricket* is this? You can ani-cancel lmb-rmb with any of the lmb specs since lmb cancels the rmb's animation no matter what, however, lmb costs 1 focus and rmb cost 3, so you really can't ani-cancel effectively unless you've generated a lot of chi, and even then you generally want to avoid doing it in PVP as lmb should be specced to stun. On top of this, lets say after you use your lmb stun and are free to ani cancel, the added chi cost from that will prevent you from using vital cc moves to chain the combos, which in the end the combos you couldve done instead of some additional lmbs will be much greater.The only time a BM will use their ani-cancel is in PVE when they've used a move that generates them chi. Even with all this said, the ani-cancel added damage is mediocre compared to Dest/KFM and even LBMs. 

 

"BDs only animation cancel is on the same cooldown as every classes escape ability"--I don't see where this is a problem? Since the only time you're going to use it is when their escape ability is on cd...if you're blowing your ani-cancels before burning enemy trinkets, then you have no idea how to play. 

 

" BM can do it at any time"-- How in the *cricket* did you come to this conclusion? First of all, BMs lmb will be specced for a 45second stun, which is longer than anyone's trinket, so they will have to wait until after that stun has been used before they can even ani-cancel, and on top of that in order to even ani-cancel in the first place you need to burn all of the opponents escapes...so lets say against your class, a BM will have to burn two escapes before they can "ani cancel" which they will most assuredly not even do. 

 

"  BD burst is completely negated by decent players. "

 

HOly living *cricket*ing shit. I don't think I have any hair left. If that were *cricket*ing true, THEN WHY ARE THERE SO MANY BDS IN HIGH ELO...Obviously, it's because their burst cannot be avoided by the majority of "decent players", that is if...if we are being true to the definition decent we are talking about moderately above average elo, so about mid goldish, ~1700... Yeah...LBDs are op, but they still require skill, and I know a lot of diamond LBDs that will be able to almost 100% pull off their full burst combos on any gold player--EASILY. 

 

Yes, BMs have a 100-0 combo, I know, everyone decent knows, same with a KFM and DEST. The difference is, none of those classes have the survivability and utility of an LBM. On top of that, LBMs have insanely quick burst. They probably have the most reliant quickest burst, since they do not need a buff to increase their dmg. And no, BMs do not have a better kit than LBMs. It's evened out considerably, but until BMs get their hm z, LBDs have the edge still. 

 

 

[SpartanGamer]

Look, man, I understand why you're trying to undermine your own class. I mean, you're doing it so you can try and persuade us that your kit isn't op, so you can get the monkey off your back and make people realize they take skill. I mean. They do take skill, but it's very moderate in comparison. LBM's kit is overloaded and simple to use, and no amount of debating is going to change people's minds. 

 

There's a reason why so many people create threads and post on the forums complaining about BD's so much. How come you never see threads complaining about blademasters, or even blademasters having a derogatory nickname such as "bladecancers", "cancer dancers", "spintowin", etc?

 

 

[glaphen]

1 hour ago, SpartanGamer said:

Yeah, that was my mistake on the stun part. I haven't played BM in a long time and stopped before that patch went live.  X along with C specced for defensive penetration are the only ways BM can actually break through defensive moves, but require you to be in melee range, which is quite risky. If you want to compare the LBD's equivalent, which is their F specced to guardbreak which disables defense for 6 seconds after the defense break, that is much much stronger-- and on top of that IT IS RANGED/16 *cricket*ing meters. Also speaking about ranged moves, this reminds me of this "BM also has more ways to CC so they can launch easier", which is not true. Well, they do have more ways to cc, but their cc is harder to land, making it more counterable and risky. Their cc moves are riskier because of their limited range, forcing them to get close to the opponent, whereas, an LBD can use their V from about a mile away, which also happens to conveniently penetrate defense, oh and deflect...

 

LBDs take flight has a 6 second lower base cd and it only cost 1 focus. Bm's take flight is 24 second base cd, and it costs 2 focus. In order for a BM's takeflight to get to the same level as a LBD's, you have to put 2 points into it. This is proving LBD's superiority to a BM even more. 

 

BD's aerial combo after the daze/stun is stronger than a BMs as well. They have more ways to cc, but LBDs cc is easier to do and set up. So after you take out rush(stun) and fivepoint, the next cc LBDs will commonly use to get into an aerial is easier to land than the next cc of a BM. Not only that, but a BM has more windows of vulnerability than an LBM, not considering their numerous iframes either, so they are more open to an attack if they are engaging. An lbm can just spam their tab when in melee range and go immediately into a cc if they see/create an opening, all the while being relatively safe majority of the time-- just with tab. If an LBM pops their z, then you literally do not have to think at all about playing reactively to the opponent and just spam your moves freely...

 

"You can animation cancel with HM LMB"-- The *cricket* is this? You can ani-cancel lmb-rmb with any of the lmb specs since lmb cancels the rmb's animation no matter what, however, lmb costs 1 focus and rmb cost 3, so you really can't ani-cancel effectively unless you've generated a lot of chi, and even then you generally want to avoid doing it in PVP as lmb should be specced to stun. On top of this, lets say after you use your lmb stun and are free to ani cancel, the added chi cost from that will prevent you from using vital cc moves to chain the combos, which in the end the combos you couldve done instead of some additional lmbs will be much greater.The only time a BM will use their ani-cancel is in PVE when they've used a move that generates them chi. Even with all this said, the ani-cancel added damage is mediocre compared to Dest/KFM and even LBMs. 

 

"BDs only animation cancel is on the same cooldown as every classes escape ability"--I don't see where this is a problem? Since the only time you're going to use it is when their escape ability is on cd...if you're blowing your ani-cancels before burning enemy trinkets, then you have no idea how to play. 

 

" BM can do it at any time"-- How in the *cricket* did you come to this conclusion? First of all, BMs lmb will be specced for a 45second stun, which is longer than anyone's trinket, so they will have to wait until after that stun has been used before they can even ani-cancel, and on top of that in order to even ani-cancel in the first place you need to burn all of the opponents escapes...so lets say against your class, a BM will have to burn two escapes before they can "ani cancel" which they will most assuredly not even do. 

 

"  BD burst is completely negated by decent players. "

 

HOly living *cricket*ing shit. I don't think I have any hair left. If that were *cricket*ing true, THEN WHY ARE THERE SO MANY BDS IN HIGH ELO...Obviously, it's because their burst cannot be avoided by the majority of "decent players", that is if...if we are being true to the definition decent we are talking about moderately above average elo, so about mid goldish, ~1700... Yeah...LBDs are op, but they still require skill, and I know a lot of diamond LBDs that will be able to almost 100% pull off their full burst combos on any gold player--EASILY. 

 

Yes, BMs have a 100-0 combo, I know, everyone decent knows, same with a KFM and DEST. The difference is, none of those classes have the survivability and utility of an LBM. On top of that, LBMs have insanely quick burst. They probably have the most reliant quickest burst, since they do not need a buff to increase their dmg. And no, BMs do not have a better kit than LBMs. It's evened out considerably, but until BMs get their hm z, LBDs have the edge still. 

 

 

Yeah and it also costs 3 points with nearly triple the cooldowns and it doesn't even CC, if you cancel the block you don't even get defense broken, let's not forget the most important part of it not working on people on the ground using counter. V has 8 meter range and a 36 second cooldown, KFM gets a version that stuns next patch while healing 10% on the same cooldown, BM has a 16 meter one next patch that stuns for 3 seconds, disables spin for 6 seconds, gives you a 10% damage boost and does 10.0 damage per minute while penetrating all defense. Destroyer has the same one on half the cooldown just without the defense break, forget the fact they have 2 defense breaks already. Their CC is harder to land is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever heard, literally we have the same CC but BM has more, our only unique 3 CC are crap in comparison, one is the 36 cooldown stun that you should be stun breaking, another gives up our focus regen and you can't even do anything until the projectile returns, if they dodge it and CC you cannot do anything about it, last one is the pull giving up our best defensive skill for the worst version of a skill multiple classes have. Our only unique thing being grab which is easy to land but it also doesn't let us actually do any skills you would normally do during a CC. Oh god you have to put 2 points into it to make it nearly the same for one ability, BD has to put 2 points into flock of blades to make it do anything useful at all besides when grab glitches and grabs a stealthed person. why is BM so superior getting soul blade stance.

 

Again how is BD aerials stronger, in tag for example BMs jump for their aerial finisher so you cannot use Five Point Strike to hit him while he is doing it like I can do to other BDs, if you try it it just goes on cooldown doing nothing, damage wise they are the exact same BD doing 5% more with the aerial starters out of the whole combo, they are exactly the same otherwise. If a BD is spamming tab they will run out of focus and die, BD do not spam tab because unlike block it costs focus, 1/5 of the bar, the only way to replenish it is to hit with a projectile that makes the biggest opening of any class in the game, you know besides hitting into it like a dumbass, lets not forget you are still vulnerable to more than half the CC in the game while spinning and there is nothing you can do but Iframe those half of the CC. I am not talking about flicker, HM LMB gives 2 chi on hitting stunned or dazed targets, 2 chi cost with 2 points in pierce it costs 2, you can animation cancel it at extreme speeds for no cost.

 

What the *cricket* how do you not see how it's a problem for their only animation cancel damage to be on the same cooldown as escape, think about this genius, what if, what if, they don't use their escape on anything but lightning draw. Wow you mean you can never use it if the enemy isn't a retard blowing his escape on a knockdown. BD has no damage outside of lighting draw, most you have is aerials and HM sunder against knockdowned targets by outplaying them while they are knockdowned and wasting both your q/e, and still not kill the enemy.

 

BM has more damage so if you blow your tab or not he is still getting you down a ton, blow it on 1 CC get 100 to 0 next one, blow it on 5 you still took most of their life bar. BM can do damage with any of its CC, BD can only do damage with 1 per 36 seconds.

 

I don't know what you are talking about, there are more of any other popular class in platinum+ area. BD is easy at low rating vs low rated players as a low rated player, it's shit at higher tier when people know how to counter your class entirely. Yes they have quick burst that doesn't go off without the enemy stunned. Also BM burst quicker with HM Z into HM Lightning Draw crits, that can easily take nearly half your life at the very start of the match when it is out, already takes 33% on crits. BM does have a better kit you just have to be too bad to use it.

 

Hilarious memes that have been out since before the english release.

[SpartanGamer]

5 hours ago, glaphen said:

Yeah and it also costs 3 points with nearly triple the cooldowns and it doesn't even CC, if you cancel the block you don't even get defense broken, let's not forget the most important part of it not working on people on the ground using counter. V has 8 meter range and a 36 second cooldown, KFM gets a version that stuns next patch while healing 10% on the same cooldown, BM has a 16 meter one next patch that stuns for 3 seconds, disables spin for 6 seconds, gives you a 10% damage boost and does 10.0 damage per minute while penetrating all defense. Destroyer has the same one on half the cooldown just without the defense break, forget the fact they have 2 defense breaks already. Their CC is harder to land is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever heard, literally we have the same CC but BM has more, our only unique 3 CC are crap in comparison, one is the 36 cooldown stun that you should be stun breaking, another gives up our focus regen and you can't even do anything until the projectile returns, if they dodge it and CC you cannot do anything about it, last one is the pull giving up our best defensive skill for the worst version of a skill multiple classes have. Our only unique thing being grab which is easy to land but it also doesn't let us actually do any skills you would normally do during a CC. Oh god you have to put 2 points into it to make it nearly the same for one ability, BD has to put 2 points into flock of blades to make it do anything useful at all besides when grab glitches and grabs a stealthed person. why is BM so superior getting soul blade stance.

 

Again how is BD aerials stronger, in tag for example BMs jump for their aerial finisher so you cannot use Five Point Strike to hit him while he is doing it like I can do to other BDs, if you try it it just goes on cooldown doing nothing, damage wise they are the exact same BD doing 5% more with the aerial starters out of the whole combo, they are exactly the same otherwise. If a BD is spamming tab they will run out of focus and die, BD do not spam tab because unlike block it costs focus, 1/5 of the bar, the only way to replenish it is to hit with a projectile that makes the biggest opening of any class in the game, you know besides hitting into it like a dumbass, lets not forget you are still vulnerable to more than half the CC in the game while spinning and there is nothing you can do but Iframe those half of the CC. I am not talking about flicker, HM LMB gives 2 chi on hitting stunned or dazed targets, 2 chi cost with 2 points in pierce it costs 2, you can animation cancel it at extreme speeds for no cost.

 

What the *cricket* how do you not see how it's a problem for their only animation cancel damage to be on the same cooldown as escape, think about this genius, what if, what if, they don't use their escape on anything but lightning draw. Wow you mean you can never use it if the enemy isn't a retard blowing his escape on a knockdown. BD has no damage outside of lighting draw, most you have is aerials and HM sunder against knockdowned targets by outplaying them while they are knockdowned and wasting both your q/e, and still not kill the enemy.

 

BM has more damage so if you blow your tab or not he is still getting you down a ton, blow it on 1 CC get 100 to 0 next one, blow it on 5 you still took most of their life bar. BM can do damage with any of its CC, BD can only do damage with 1 per 36 seconds.

 

I don't know what you are talking about, there are more of any other popular class in platinum+ area. BD is easy at low rating vs low rated players as a low rated player, it's shit at higher tier when people know how to counter your class entirely. Yes they have quick burst that doesn't go off without the enemy stunned. Also BM burst quicker with HM Z into HM Lightning Draw crits, that can easily take nearly half your life at the very start of the match when it is out, already takes 33% on crits. BM does have a better kit you just have to be too bad to use it.

 

Hilarious memes that have been out since before the english release.

How about we stick to the present and not bring up the future, we aren't comparing future moves--we're talking about now. 

 

"Yeah and it also costs 3 points with nearly triple the cooldowns and it doesn't even CC, if you cancel the block you don't even get defense broken, let's not forget the most important part of it not working on people on the ground using counter."-- Wait a minute...Wait a *cricket*ing minute. Are you honestly trying to imply that an LBM's guardbreak is worse than a BM's x(kd)? ARE YOU *cricket*ING SERIOUS!? You need 2 points to spec it into the knockdown, so the f is only an additional point cost, BUT it becomes significantly better than the BM's x(kd). Why? Both require the opponent to be defending, however, the BM has to be within 3m range in order to get it off, which puts them at risk as well as gives the opponent a chance to iframe(I do this all the time against other BMs, block...wait for their x or c then q/e the move). Whereas, the LBM obviously has the added benefit of being able to instantly guard break at the comfortable distance of 16 meters. YOU LITERALLY AUTO BREAK DEFENSE PRESSING A BUTTON FROM ALMOST ANYWHERE WITH NO RISK!!! You cannot honestly be saying it's not as a good as a BM's x, please complain about this to the dev team-- I would love to have their f switched with our x. 

 

"if you cancel the block you don't even get defense broken"-- I don't know what you're talking about here? Not the case with LBMs because they break the defense and then cancel any defensive moves for 6 seconds, or are you talking about BMs? "let's not forget the most important part of it not working on people on the ground using counter."-- that is actually the least important, and I'm pretty sure the reason for this is because if they use a ground counter successfully before you do anything, they will gain iframes. Maybe you're referring to something else?

 

"Their CC is harder to land is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever heard"-- Ironic. I'm thinking the same thing reading that bs. So...having cc abilities that far outrange all of a BMs that also happens to penetrate defense and deflect, meaning you just get into the general area and press a button not worrying about what defensive move they can do since it'll negate it, is not easier? WTF are you talking about? Your reasoning is getting even duller here...And about the flock of blades part, same thing goes for the BM. They need atleast two points into it for it to be useful at all, granted, their V is better than an LBMs, but it is very needed since BMs are very weak without such a strong V.

 

"If a BD is spamming tab they will run out of focus and die'-- I lol'ed right here. If they spam spin...wait for it...they will lose focus...and die. HOLY SH**! Really? I really wished that were actually the case. It seems pointless now to continue debating. You're just on a mission to disprove your class and make it look like assss. 

 

"What the *cricket* how do you not see how it's a problem for their only animation cancel damage to be on the same cooldown as escape, think about this genius, what if, what if, they don't use their escape on anything but lightning draw. Wow you mean you can never use it if the enemy isn't a retard blowing his escape on a knockdown. BD has no damage outside of lighting draw, most you have is aerials and HM sunder against knockdowned targets by outplaying them while they are knockdowned and wasting both your q/e, and still not kill the enemy."

 

Sigh..It is not a problem because a BM, no, actually every class, will force the enemy to burn their trinket on their primary damaging combos. With BM and LBM, the primary source of damage comes from their lightning draw combos. I will only burn tab on a BM when he goes into draw stance, same with LBM. Though, an LBM's plight will be the exact same as a BMs in this regard, but theirs is not as bad. Obviously, YOU NEED TO BURN THEIR TRINKET before you enter your go-to combo, and if you really need me to explain how you can do this, then this is hopeless. You use bait tactics. Think about your own. It's the same for every class, including BMs. A BM cannot just at will "ani cancel" you to death, which that alone sounds absurd. Again, using BMs ani-cancel as evidence to their kit being superior is completely erroneous since, well, a BM doesn't use it in PVP. 

STOP trying to use this as an example, please...please...you're making yourself look even worse to seasoned vets here. 

 

Jesus christ, ok, so LBDs are so weak they can only do damage with one cc every 36 seconds, whereas BMs can have the time of their lives running around like maniacs cc'ing everything in existence a million times. JESUS CHRIST I WOULD PAY MONEY FOR THAT TO BE TRUE. HOLY HEAVENS BALLS. ODIN'S BEARD!!! Ncsoft, if you're *cricket*ing reading this, MAKE IT HAPPEN BABY!

 

Idk, that was just too, too baloney for me to even seriously reply to that. 

 

"I don't know what you are talking about, there are more of any other popular class in platinum+ area."-- WHAT THE LIVING...FACKKKK. Plat+ is literally filled with Summoners, LBMS, and then SINs. In that order of prevalence, too. I rarely come across BMs. I don't think you realize how hard the life of a BM is...

 

" HM Z into HM Lightning Draw crits"-- WTF IS WITH YOU AND HM Z. "Omg, HM Z, HM Z, I'm going to sploodge myself". We're talking about now. And as of now, LBMs are superior to BMs. That is a fact. 

 

"BM does have a better kit you just have to be too bad to use it."-- You are completely dillusional. Completely. Again with the irony. You know what, how about you roll to a BM then, and see for yourself. Your kit is op, I will slap you if you'll try and tell me it's not, or that a BM's kit is stronger...

 

 

[glaphen]

7 hours ago, SpartanGamer said:

How about we stick to the present and not bring up the future, we aren't comparing future moves--we're talking about now. 

 

"Yeah and it also costs 3 points with nearly triple the cooldowns and it doesn't even CC, if you cancel the block you don't even get defense broken, let's not forget the most important part of it not working on people on the ground using counter."-- Wait a minute...Wait a *cricket*ing minute. Are you honestly trying to imply that an LBM's guardbreak is worse than a BM's x(kd)? ARE YOU *cricket*ING SERIOUS!? You need 2 points to spec it into the knockdown, so the f is only an additional point cost, BUT it becomes significantly better than the BM's x(kd). Why? Both require the opponent to be defending, however, the BM has to be within 3m range in order to get it off, which puts them at risk as well as gives the opponent a chance to iframe(I do this all the time against other BMs, block...wait for their x or c then q/e the move). Whereas, the LBM obviously has the added benefit of being able to instantly guard break at the comfortable distance of 16 meters. YOU LITERALLY AUTO BREAK DEFENSE PRESSING A BUTTON FROM ALMOST ANYWHERE WITH NO RISK!!! You cannot honestly be saying it's not as a good as a BM's x, please complain about this to the dev team-- I would love to have their f switched with our x. 

 

"if you cancel the block you don't even get defense broken"-- I don't know what you're talking about here? Not the case with LBMs because they break the defense and then cancel any defensive moves for 6 seconds, or are you talking about BMs? "let's not forget the most important part of it not working on people on the ground using counter."-- that is actually the least important, and I'm pretty sure the reason for this is because if they use a ground counter successfully before you do anything, they will gain iframes. Maybe you're referring to something else?

 

"Their CC is harder to land is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever heard"-- Ironic. I'm thinking the same thing reading that bs. So...having cc abilities that far outrange all of a BMs that also happens to penetrate defense and deflect, meaning you just get into the general area and press a button not worrying about what defensive move they can do since it'll negate it, is not easier? WTF are you talking about? Your reasoning is getting even duller here...And about the flock of blades part, same thing goes for the BM. They need atleast two points into it for it to be useful at all, granted, their V is better than an LBMs, but it is very needed since BMs are very weak without such a strong V.

 

"If a BD is spamming tab they will run out of focus and die'-- I lol'ed right here. If they spam spin...wait for it...they will lose focus...and die. HOLY SH**! Really? I really wished that were actually the case. It seems pointless now to continue debating. You're just on a mission to disprove your class and make it look like assss. 

 

"What the *cricket* how do you not see how it's a problem for their only animation cancel damage to be on the same cooldown as escape, think about this genius, what if, what if, they don't use their escape on anything but lightning draw. Wow you mean you can never use it if the enemy isn't a retard blowing his escape on a knockdown. BD has no damage outside of lighting draw, most you have is aerials and HM sunder against knockdowned targets by outplaying them while they are knockdowned and wasting both your q/e, and still not kill the enemy."

 

Sigh..It is not a problem because a BM, no, actually every class, will force the enemy to burn their trinket on their primary damaging combos. With BM and LBM, the primary source of damage comes from their lightning draw combos. I will only burn tab on a BM when he goes into draw stance, same with LBM. Though, an LBM's plight will be the exact same as a BMs in this regard, but theirs is not as bad. Obviously, YOU NEED TO BURN THEIR TRINKET before you enter your go-to combo, and if you really need me to explain how you can do this, then this is hopeless. You use bait tactics. Think about your own. It's the same for every class, including BMs. A BM cannot just at will "ani cancel" you to death, which that alone sounds absurd. Again, using BMs ani-cancel as evidence to their kit being superior is completely erroneous since, well, a BM doesn't use it in PVP. 

STOP trying to use this as an example, please...please...you're making yourself look even worse to seasoned vets here. 

 

Jesus christ, ok, so LBDs are so weak they can only do damage with one cc every 36 seconds, whereas BMs can have the time of their lives running around like maniacs cc'ing everything in existence a million times. JESUS CHRIST I WOULD PAY MONEY FOR THAT TO BE TRUE. HOLY HEAVENS BALLS. ODIN'S BEARD!!! Ncsoft, if you're *cricket*ing reading this, MAKE IT HAPPEN BABY!

 

Idk, that was just too, too baloney for me to even seriously reply to that. 

 

"I don't know what you are talking about, there are more of any other popular class in platinum+ area."-- WHAT THE LIVING...FACKKKK. Plat+ is literally filled with Summoners, LBMS, and then SINs. In that order of prevalence, too. I rarely come across BMs. I don't think you realize how hard the life of a BM is...

 

" HM Z into HM Lightning Draw crits"-- WTF IS WITH YOU AND HM Z. "Omg, HM Z, HM Z, I'm going to sploodge myself". We're talking about now. And as of now, LBMs are superior to BMs. That is a fact. 

 

"BM does have a better kit you just have to be too bad to use it."-- You are completely dillusional. Completely. Again with the irony. You know what, how about you roll to a BM then, and see for yourself. Your kit is op, I will slap you if you'll try and tell me it's not, or that a BM's kit is stronger...

 

 

How about we don't because it will be the next and last HM released, it will be out soon.

 

???? What is this about knockdown and 2 points, our F requires 3 points to disable defenses, it has more risk because you can cancel block and waste its triple cooldown. Not everyone is a BM that spams q/e 5+ times every 8 seconds at melee range, BD q/e has an 18 second cooldown and is used to make our Sunder not be the slowest, lowest damage attack in the game. If you cancel your block it does literally nothing but 3.5 damage, people bait it all the time by blocking for .1 seconds and canceling, BD used F and they weren't guarding anymore so no defense break for 6 seconds. How about you actually read the skill, it says it cannot be used on knockdowned enemies, BM does not say that, so they use it expecting counters so they can stun, fail and it will knockdown again anyways and they still have Shoulder Charge to CC through it.

 

Please again tell me what out ranges out of our unique CC, you have a 16 meter range pull that is a nearly instant projectile, BD projectile is one of the slowest and locks you in the animation until it returns, unable to do anything at all but move, it also gives up our only focus regen, all you get out of it as a 2 second knockdown. Our 8 meter range pull gives up our best defensive ability and as I said 3 other classes have something better. Our stun is what you should be stun breaking so regardless of its easiness to land you just negate it. Now lets look at BM unique CC, 2x8 meter range instant stun per 45 seconds, 3 meter range instant 3 second daze per 45 seconds, 16 meter range nearly instant pull that will soon stun or daze per 24-1 minute. 9 second cooldown Boot that breaks even ground counters into stuns and knockdowns either way. 2 second projectile daze that penetrates all defense per minute, 3-16 meter 24 second cooldown 3 second daze that either heals 10% and penetrates defense or turns into a 16 meter charge. Flock of blades knockback and knockdown instantly per minute that can be used at any time not just while grabbed. BM gets soul blade conducting regardless of any points in it, how can BM get something better entirely with no points compared to BD, give us soul blade conducting and you can have your no point cost Take Flight.

 

Are you seriously this bad, BD runs out of focus and it dies, their only real way to regain it is hitting with a projectile that leaves them more open than any other skill in the game.

 

Only when a BM goes into draw stance, what? BM can enter draw stance with so many ways, how the *cricket* do you ever beat any BMs using escape on literally anything. You seriously still do not see BD has nothing else to make someone escape for no reason, BD has nothing to bait escape with, BM has so many ways they do their damage either way, they are the same as KFM doing damage during any CC they hit you with.

 

BM is superior right now either way, just when it gets HM Z it will be top 2 classes material. Nah how about you go make an easy mode BD and try to get platinum, you can see that BD has the most golds by the starting point of page 20 golds where BD needs 1622 to be in the top 1000, but there are only 73 platinum BD, KFM need 1608 the be top 1000, but there are 76 platinum KFM, There are more KFM, assassins, summoners and destroyers in platinum than BD but BD has the most people attempting it besides summoners. BM doesn't even have a top 1000, they only reach page 15 748 but they still have 38 platinum, half of BD. Probably even worse on EU where people don't play BD as much. Again how about you try BD easy mode in the platinum+ area if you can get there, doubt it, BM has a better kit when used by decent players.

[Terimac]

BM and Destro are better than BD'S, period. The only reason i play a bd is beacause i find them more fun in pvp/pve. 

 

BD'S hm skills are laughable compared to the ones bm gets, like why the heck do we not even have a hm soaring falcon? BM hm block skyrocketed them past bds in pve and pvp.

 

Have you noticed how many of bms skills are available for the hm line compared to bds? They have so many options and that is the thing that bothers me the most when comparing bds to bms. Isnt that kinda unfair?

[OuchThatHurt]

24 minutes ago, Terimac said:

BM and Destro are better than BD'S, period. The only reason i play a bd is beacause i find them more fun in pvp/pve. 

 

BD'S hm skills are laughable compared to the ones bm gets, like why the heck do we not even have a hm soaring falcon? BM hm block skyrocketed them past bds in pve and pvp.

 

Have you noticed how many of bms skills are available for the hm line compared to bds? They have so many options and that is the thing that bothers me the most when comparing bds to bms. Isnt that kinda unfair?

Yeah a while back I was with a BM on my BD and we tested our HM draw ...his hit 39k mine hit 16k both hit crits and both had around 530 AP and 200% crit damage...yeah that was open world but it should translate to arena too as all classes are "balanced". 

 

I totally agree BD is the most mobile Melee class which makes fun as hell to use and it's the most versatile you can tank on it go support DPS with either a wind or lightning build you can go CC nuts or Iframes and healing all have uses and while not top DPS they can do almost anything a Destroyer can do in PVE/PVP apart from deal that massive AOE damage from spin.  

[glaphen]

2 hours ago, OuchThatHurt said:

Yeah a while back I was with a BM on my BD and we tested our HM draw ...his hit 39k mine hit 16k both hit crits and both had around 530 AP and 200% crit damage...yeah that was open world but it should translate to arena too as all classes are "balanced". 

 

I totally agree BD is the most mobile Melee class which makes fun as hell to use and it's the most versatile you can tank on it go support DPS with either a wind or lightning build you can go CC nuts or Iframes and healing all have uses and while not top DPS they can do almost anything a Destroyer can do in PVE/PVP apart from deal that massive AOE damage from spin.  

BD isn't the most mobile class with meta builds, it's the slowest. Only 2 charge skills, one half charge. Even spin speed wise Destroyer gets it even on parry spins and defensive spin goes 20% faster and prevents snares during it. Still has 4 charges and a 16 meter pull. Assassins move 100% speed while stealthed and have so many mobility skills I'm not going to bother counting. KFM gets 35% movement speed for 5 seconds per q/e and 5% per agility stack that stacks and 100% stacking speed on 3, then still has 5 charges, 1 half charge and 1 pull without sacrifice soon. BM get 30% movement speed for 4 seconds on backstep and has 4 charges, a pull and possibly flash step, Only way to get good mobility on BD is flash step with Flaming Scourge and possibly Storm Cleave but only I use that. Also the damage comparison, BM has double the cooldown on Lightning Draw with that form, still means BD has to do double the work to abuse the damage from it compared to BM, BD also does like 37% more if the BM doesn't critical, BD is guaranteed. Also forgetting BD has the least way to remove charge disables at that only having HM Maelstrom per 36 seconds while every other class has multiple removals or charges that ignore it.

[YangXiaoLong]

3 hours ago, Terimac said:

BM and Destro are better than BD'S, period. The only reason i play a bd is beacause i find them more fun in pvp/pve. 

 

BD'S hm skills are laughable compared to the ones bm gets, like why the heck do we not even have a hm soaring falcon? BM hm block skyrocketed them past bds in pve and pvp.

 

Have you noticed how many of bms skills are available for the hm line compared to bds? They have so many options and that is the thing that bothers me the most when comparing bds to bms. Isnt that kinda unfair?

Nope, not unfair at all. BMs are suppose to be masters (have more experience) of the sword than to BDs, hence is why BMs can dodge multiple with shorter CD and avoid all 8 of Yeti's attacks during the ice sequence while BDs dodges have a longer cooldown,.

 

It's already enough that BDs has half of kit from BMs plus their own kit. If BDs had all the kit that a BMs has, then what is the point of even playing a BM then, huh?

BDs are basically just dancers, that's it. Nothing special about them.

[glaphen]

1 hour ago, YangXiaoLong said:

Nope, not unfair at all. BMs are suppose to be masters (have more experience) of the sword than to BDs, hence is why BMs can dodge multiple with shorter CD and avoid all 8 of Yeti's attacks during the ice sequence while BDs dodges have a longer cooldown,.

 

It's already enough that BDs has half of kit from BMs plus their own kit. If BDs had all the kit that a BMs has, then what is the point of even playing a BM then, huh?

BDs are basically just dancers, that's it. Nothing special about them.

In every other version of the game they are called Lyn Blade Masters.

[OuchThatHurt]

8 hours ago, glaphen said:

BD isn't the most mobile class with meta builds, it's the slowest. Only 2 charge skills, one half charge. Even spin speed wise Destroyer gets it even on parry spins and defensive spin goes 20% faster and prevents snares during it. Still has 4 charges and a 16 meter pull. Assassins move 100% speed while stealthed and have so many mobility skills I'm not going to bother counting. KFM gets 35% movement speed for 5 seconds per q/e and 5% per agility stack that stacks and 100% stacking speed on 3, then still has 5 charges, 1 half charge and 1 pull without sacrifice soon. BM get 30% movement speed for 4 seconds on backstep and has 4 charges, a pull and possibly flash step, Only way to get good mobility on BD is flash step with Flaming Scourge and possibly Storm Cleave but only I use that. Also the damage comparison, BM has double the cooldown on Lightning Draw with that form, still means BD has to do double the work to abuse the damage from it compared to BM, BD also does like 37% more if the BM doesn't critical, BD is guaranteed. Also forgetting BD has the least way to remove charge disables at that only having HM Maelstrom per 36 seconds while every other class has multiple removals or charges that ignore it.

Having played every melee class bar Sin I totally  disagree, on BM you block and have to be static. KFM feels the same too you block too counter and half the time you are static,  destroyer feels slow and heavy with half the attacks they use and watching how others play Sin they tend to be static while dealing damage and use speed to move in and out of range. 

 

I hate playing other melee classes because the feel at lot less mobile on BD you can move in any directing and use your iframes and attacks and they have 360 protection the same can't be said for other classes with the exception of DE but then as i said their attacks  feel slow and heavy.

 

Mobility isn't just about skills that boost speed or ability to use charge skills and break snare  it's about how the class feels when playing, I could never get used to BM's static block and as i said i found the same on KFM you don't have 360 protection and can't move in any direction you like you have to be facing the foe.

 

BD feels more mobile then any other melee class in terms of being able to attack or  defend and use skills while moving, I know KFM can be mobile while fighting but a lot of them tend to be static while defending.    

[SpartanGamer]

20 hours ago, glaphen said:

How about we don't because it will be the next and last HM released, it will be out soon.

 

???? What is this about knockdown and 2 points, our F requires 3 points to disable defenses, it has more risk because you can cancel block and waste its triple cooldown. Not everyone is a BM that spams q/e 5+ times every 8 seconds at melee range, BD q/e has an 18 second cooldown and is used to make our Sunder not be the slowest, lowest damage attack in the game. If you cancel your block it does literally nothing but 3.5 damage, people bait it all the time by blocking for .1 seconds and canceling, BD used F and they weren't guarding anymore so no defense break for 6 seconds. How about you actually read the skill, it says it cannot be used on knockdowned enemies, BM does not say that, so they use it expecting counters so they can stun, fail and it will knockdown again anyways and they still have Shoulder Charge to CC through it.

 

Please again tell me what out ranges out of our unique CC, you have a 16 meter range pull that is a nearly instant projectile, BD projectile is one of the slowest and locks you in the animation until it returns, unable to do anything at all but move, it also gives up our only focus regen, all you get out of it as a 2 second knockdown. Our 8 meter range pull gives up our best defensive ability and as I said 3 other classes have something better. Our stun is what you should be stun breaking so regardless of its easiness to land you just negate it. Now lets look at BM unique CC, 2x8 meter range instant stun per 45 seconds, 3 meter range instant 3 second daze per 45 seconds, 16 meter range nearly instant pull that will soon stun or daze per 24-1 minute. 9 second cooldown Boot that breaks even ground counters into stuns and knockdowns either way. 2 second projectile daze that penetrates all defense per minute, 3-16 meter 24 second cooldown 3 second daze that either heals 10% and penetrates defense or turns into a 16 meter charge. Flock of blades knockback and knockdown instantly per minute that can be used at any time not just while grabbed. BM gets soul blade conducting regardless of any points in it, how can BM get something better entirely with no points compared to BD, give us soul blade conducting and you can have your no point cost Take Flight.

 

Are you seriously this bad, BD runs out of focus and it dies, their only real way to regain it is hitting with a projectile that leaves them more open than any other skill in the game.

 

Only when a BM goes into draw stance, what? BM can enter draw stance with so many ways, how the *cricket* do you ever beat any BMs using escape on literally anything. You seriously still do not see BD has nothing else to make someone escape for no reason, BD has nothing to bait escape with, BM has so many ways they do their damage either way, they are the same as KFM doing damage during any CC they hit you with.

 

BM is superior right now either way, just when it gets HM Z it will be top 2 classes material. Nah how about you go make an easy mode BD and try to get platinum, you can see that BD has the most golds by the starting point of page 20 golds where BD needs 1622 to be in the top 1000, but there are only 73 platinum BD, KFM need 1608 the be top 1000, but there are 76 platinum KFM, There are more KFM, assassins, summoners and destroyers in platinum than BD but BD has the most people attempting it besides summoners. BM doesn't even have a top 1000, they only reach page 15 748 but they still have 38 platinum, half of BD. Probably even worse on EU where people don't play BD as much. Again how about you try BD easy mode in the platinum+ area if you can get there, doubt it, BM has a better kit when used by decent players.

I can't take anything you say seriously. You literally...honestly...whole-heartedly believe that LBD's kit>>>>>>>>>BM's kit. 

 

There is no reason here, just pure, undiluted one sided madness. Pretty much all your supporting argumentation is just misleading and downright just wrong. You honestly are trying to make people believe that BMs have better kits than an LBM. GTFO of here, you have no idea what you're talking about. 

[SpartanGamer]

M8, I've been diamond on my SIN and BM. Didn't have time to try pvp grinding with my KFM, but now that you challenge me with lBD. I will make one and get to plat. It's literally the second easiest class besides summoner. Hence why it's rated the second lowest in terms of skill by the dev team-- lmfao, they literally made this class with the purpose of making it simple to cater to less skilled players. It also has the best offensive capabilities of any class because of its insane burst and easy, op moves that enable them to get into it. 

 

I'm sorry, but if you don't know how to bait escapes and are BITCHINGggg, A GODDAAAMNNNN LBD BITCHING ABOUT BMs, then you're terrible. And if you think plat is a good achievement, then it also again proves to show your noobiness. 2050+ is skillful play, where you can't just spam all your moves like you're probably used to doing all the time and expect to win. It may take a while to put up a video or picture of my LBM in plat because I'm currently grinding for skills/gear/HM levels, and don't have the additional luxury of leveling another alt. 

 

Anyways, I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE THE PREPOSTEROUS CLAIMS YOU'VE BEEN BELLOWING!!!

[glaphen]

3 hours ago, SpartanGamer said:

I can't take anything you say seriously. You literally...honestly...whole-heartedly believe that LBD's kit>>>>>>>>>BM's kit. 

 

There is no reason here, just pure, undiluted one sided madness. Pretty much all your supporting argumentation is just misleading and downright just wrong. You honestly are trying to make people believe that BMs have better kits than an LBM. GTFO of here, you have no idea what you're talking about. 

No you believe BD kit >>>>>>>>> BM Kit. You have yet to present any facts and any of them you have tried to post I have already explained how they are wrong. I am eagerly awaiting your platinum+ BD post.

 

9 hours ago, OuchThatHurt said:

Having played every melee class bar Sin I totally  disagree, on BM you block and have to be static. KFM feels the same too you block too counter and half the time you are static,  destroyer feels slow and heavy with half the attacks they use and watching how others play Sin they tend to be static while dealing damage and use speed to move in and out of range. 

 

I hate playing other melee classes because the feel at lot less mobile on BD you can move in any directing and use your iframes and attacks and they have 360 protection the same can't be said for other classes with the exception of DE but then as i said their attacks  feel slow and heavy.

 

Mobility isn't just about skills that boost speed or ability to use charge skills and break snare  it's about how the class feels when playing, I could never get used to BM's static block and as i said i found the same on KFM you don't have 360 protection and can't move in any direction you like you have to be facing the foe.

 

BD feels more mobile then any other melee class in terms of being able to attack or  defend and use skills while moving, I know KFM can be mobile while fighting but a lot of them tend to be static while defending.    

Yeah I don't really care about your feelings, the facts are every class is faster, BM may have the only static block besides warlock but it still has double the charge skills and is nearly immune to charge disables, using your q/e and SS right you should not feel immobile. KFM does not lose any mobility at all blocking and has nearly triple the charge skills with more speed. Destroyer "feels" heavy but the facts are it is faster with the same spins and has double the charge skills. Assassin is obviously the most mobile class in the game having most like more than 5x the charges, they also block both directions with counter. You should have no reason to have your back to the opponent unless you know he is about to do a rear charge but there is almost none of those even in the game, even BD "rear protection" doesn't protect against assassins rear charges since half of them knockdown through spin and BDs rear charge is where you stun break so it doesn't matter if you get hit or not, then you can also hump walls to counter those skills in general. Again I've been saying the charge amounts but BD charges are also on the highest cooldowns of 45 and 30 seconds, 36 half, BM has 24 on their unique charges, KFM and assassin have a spammable 6 second cooldown to get to your face whenever and Destroyers highest charge cooldowns are 18 secondsx3, though I think most take the 24-30 second ram though I don't see why or 30 seconds if they go defense break knee against some classes. Then again BD only has HM Maelstrom as a charge disable removal per 36 seconds, every other class has multiple ways with lower than 36 second cooldowns.

[Ketsura]

lol dude, I went against a BD yesterday for dailly chanlage,time almost gone up, i was with 40% and he with 88% BECAUSE THE STUFF HE DID WAS SPIN AND BLOCK my attacks lol

[SpartanGamer]

2 hours ago, glaphen said:

No you believe BD kit >>>>>>>>BM Kit. You have yet to present any facts and any of them you have tried to post I have already explained how they are wrong. I am eagerly awaiting your platinum+ BD post.

BD's kit is significantly better than a BM's kit, if you can't understand that then you're delusional. I've tried presenting facts, but you're too bent on trying to prove BD>BM so nothing is getting through. I'm done trying to explain. But on a side note:

 

" but there are only 73 platinum BD "

" BM doesn't even have a top 1000, they only reach page 15 748 but they still have 38 platinum, half of BD "

 

Oh, so BM's kit is just so good that unlike BD's they can't get into the top rankings? So if BM's kits are that much better than a BD's, why in the *cricket* are there twice as many plat BDs? Lord only knows where both lie in diamond...*cough* cough* Why do BMs have tough matchups with MOST CLASSES, while BD's virtually have no counters. If BMs have better kits/stand better than BDs in this patch, why do the stats show otherwise? Must there be x10 the amount of BDs compared to BMs for there to be some sort of equivalence/superiority to you? I honestly do not believe you've played any other class other than BD if this is what you truly think-- if you did, you would know where a BD and BM truly lies in terms of op'ness. 

 

Honestly, HOW CAN YOU LOOK AT ACTUAL STATISTICS AND STILL BELIEVE BDS<BMS!

 

It's like looking at grades of students with there being 50 tests from Student 1 being graded an "A", compared to 50 tests of Student 2 being graded "C", and then arriving at the humble conclusion that student 2 is somehow the better student. LMFAO. It makes no sense. So please, present to me plausible points, which in this case cannot be the case since BDs>BMs is just...not plausible. 

 

 

[glaphen]

1 hour ago, SpartanGamer said:

BD's kit is significantly better than a BM's kit, if you can't understand that then you're delusional. I've tried presenting facts, but you're too bent on trying to prove BD>BM so nothing is getting through. I'm done trying to explain. But on a side note:

 

" but there are only 73 platinum BD "

" BM doesn't even have a top 1000, they only reach page 15 748 but they still have 38 platinum, half of BD "

 

Oh, so BM's kit is just so good that unlike BD's they can't get into the top rankings? So if BM's kits are that much better than a BD's, why in the *cricket* are there twice as many plat BDs? Lord only knows where both lie in diamond...*cough* cough* Why do BMs have tough matchups with MOST CLASSES, while BD's virtually have no counters. If BMs have better kits/stand better than BDs in this patch, why do the stats show otherwise? Must there be x10 the amount of BDs compared to BMs for there to be some sort of equivalence/superiority to you? I honestly do not believe you've played any other class other than BD if this is what you truly think-- if you did, you would know where a BD and BM truly lies in terms of op'ness. 

 

Honestly, HOW CAN YOU LOOK AT ACTUAL STATISTICS AND STILL BELIEVE BDS<BMS!

 

It's like looking at grades of students with there being 50 tests from Student 1 being graded an "A", compared to 50 tests of Student 2 being graded "C", and then arriving at the humble conclusion that student 2 is somehow the better student. LMFAO. It makes no sense. So please, present to me plausible points, which in this case cannot be the case since BDs>BMs is just...not plausible. 

 

 

Can you please learn what > means, > means greater than < means less than. Because if you use basic logic you could see there are less BM even attempting to get platinum, BM at that time only had 748 people in gold, BD had so many that top 1000 started at 1622, many people just sit at ranks 1600-1620 for gold rank medal the moment they hit gold, you do not go over 1620 without playing as a gold at least once most of the time. BM had half of the platinum at that time yet less than half the people attempting it compared to BD, as I was explaining if you could understand in the first place. BD has tough matches against everything, literally they do not have the advantage against a single class if both are the same high skill level, only disadvantageous match ups, BD is countered by decent KFM, also good assassins but that is like 1% of them or less, most are retards who just sit in stealth 6 seconds and then instantly Turning Leaf and don't even have Swiftstep set to knockdown or Cyclone Sweep, I have only seen one assassin actually use Lotus of Poison. Please show me these statistics, I have actually shown you the F11 data but you can't actually understand them, I have compared the class skill differences and you refuse to see it. I mean I just looked right now and there are 764 BM in gold, 1620 starts at 464 for BM, those are the people who even attempt to play.

[N3ro]

1 hour ago, glaphen said:

Can you please learn what > means, > means greater than < means less than. Because if you use basic logic you could see there are less BM even attempting to get platinum, BM at that time only had 748 people in gold, BD had so many that top 1000 started at 1622, many people just sit at ranks 1600-1620 for gold rank medal the moment they hit gold, you do not go over 1620 without playing as a gold at least once most of the time. BM had half of the platinum at that time yet less than half the people attempting it compared to BD, as I was explaining if you could understand in the first place. BD has tough matches against everything, literally they do not have the advantage against a single class if both are the same high skill level, only disadvantageous match ups, BD is countered by decent KFM, also good assassins but that is like 1% of them or less, most are retards who just sit in stealth 6 seconds and then instantly Turning Leaf and don't even have Swiftstep set to knockdown or Cyclone Sweep, I have only seen one assassin actually use Lotus of Poison. Please show me these statistics, I have actually shown you the F11 data but you can't actually understand them, I have compared the class skill differences and you refuse to see it. I mean I just looked right now and there are 764 BM in gold, 1620 starts at 464 for BM, those are the people who even attempt to play.

Lotus of poison is more of a troll glyph than one that actually is to be taken seriously.

1 glyphed for kd is not necessary, but it´s a decent option. Daze one is decent too. You don´t really glyph your f for knockdown. You can, but then you are abandoning the daze build completely. You´re then playing some kind of stunlock only build witch probably means rip your penta slash and get your c stun and you´d glyph your 3 on damage and maybe even ice bomb and blue buff (then you can take 3 kd), because otherwise i don´t think it would match the daze builds strength. Basically scum-build. It works, but it´s not really fun to play imo and your opponents will also get pissed off a lot. That´s what i did also back when i failed all my tech chases. Well... now i don´t fail all that many tech chases anymore and daze build looks more fancy and is also probably better, but harder.

I would say bd against sin: A godtear sin should beat a godtear bd, but in the lower more "casual" skill brackets the bd is actually favoured and the sin will have to outskill the bd until some breaking point, or that´s how i feel like. Witch is why people are complaining about bd, because at a certain skill level you won´t be able to overcome their extremely fast cheese abilities and you will feel like bds are outright op as a result and start complain about them. Most people are not trying too hard at games, that´s just how it is.

[glaphen]

40 minutes ago, N3ro said:

Lotus of poison is more of a troll glyph than one that actually is to be taken seriously.

1 glyphed for kd is not necessary, but it´s a decent option. Daze one is decent too. You don´t really glyph your f for knockdown. You can, but then you are abandoning the daze build completely. You´re then playing some kind of stunlock only build witch probably means rip your penta slash and get your c stun and you´d glyph your 3 on damage and maybe even ice bomb and blue buff (then you can take 3 kd), because otherwise i don´t think it would match the daze builds strength. Basically scum-build. It works, but it´s not really fun to play imo and your opponents will also get pissed off a lot. That´s what i did also back when i failed all my tech chases. Well... now i don´t fail all that many tech chases anymore and daze build looks more fancy and is also probably better, but harder.

I would say bd against sin: A godtear sin should beat a godtear bd, but in the lower more "casual" skill brackets the bd is actually favoured and the sin will have to outskill the bd until some breaking point, or that´s how i feel like. Witch is why people are complaining about bd, because at a certain skill level you won´t be able to overcome their extremely fast cheese abilities and you will feel like bds are outright op as a result and start complain about them. Most people are not trying too hard at games, that´s just how it is.

Nah Lotus of Poison is pretty good against BD disabling spin for 6 seconds and dazing for 3 through spin, you don't need 2 stun breaks against BD and you should be able to 100 to 0 without blue buff anyways. BD is not weak to dazes, it is weak to knockdowns, you should be putting it in anything that drags a BD out of spin so you can web him into a combo. Pretty much yeah, bad BD destroys bad assassins, decent BD get destroyed by decent assassins, good BD destroy decent assassins but good assassins should destroy good BDs. But that is how it is for BD vs any class just less one sided besides KFM.

[N3ro]

21 minutes ago, glaphen said:

Nah Lotus of Poison is pretty good against BD disabling spin for 6 seconds and dazing for 3 through spin, you don't need 2 stun breaks against BD and you should be able to 100 to 0 without blue buff anyways. BD is not weak to dazes, it is weak to knockdowns, you should be putting it in anything that drags a BD out of spin so you can web him into a combo. Pretty much yeah, bad BD destroys bad assassins, decent BD get destroyed by decent assassins, good BD destroy decent assassins but good assassins should destroy good BDs. But that is how it is for BD vs any class just less one sided besides KFM.

Sure, openers... but you don´t need that many against BDs, either they are immune and you cant open anyway, or your 3 on kd + tab swap + eventually x daze (because they can´t just 24/7 spin especially if you dodge some soaring falcons) + 1 kd is a decent one as i said are enough openers. That´s the "initial hit" thing. For everything inside your combos daze is just superior. BDs only have 1 tab. If you glyph your f for kd your combo game becomes A LOT weaker, unless you glyph the other stuff as i said. You can´t just always 100-0 as a sin no matter what you glyph and just take 124871248972851 openers when you don´t need them. It´s pointless.

 

Lotus of poison might have a "good effect", but i don´t see how it does anything more than other openers and it´s on a 45 cooldown and your enemy must be in range, you loose stealth when you place a flower and you need them to be poisoned, the spin disable probably won´t matter except you plan on daze/stun him like 3 sek after that again. Why not just tech chase properly? Your combo from there will last well over 6 seconds, so the defence disable is not going to be all that useful. The only thing is if they tab out of it... it might be easier to open up again, but if the bd knows this it´s easiely dealt with + the first 6 seconds of the "combo" here will usually look like tech chase + some lmb+rmb + web, witch does not hurt that much a lot of the time people don´t escape before that anyways. And after that the debuff is gone.

[glaphen]

2 minutes ago, N3ro said:

Sure, openers... but you don´t need that many against BDs, either they are immune and you cant open anyway, or your 3 on kd + tab swap + eventually x daze (because they can´t just 24/7 spin especially if you dodge some soaring falcons) + 1 kd is a decent one as i said are enough openers. That´s the "initial hit" thing. For everything inside your combos daze is just superior. BDs only have 1 tab. If you glyph your f for kd your combo game becomes A LOT weaker, unless you glyph the other stuff as i said. You can´t just always 100-0 as a sin no matter what you glyph and just take 124871248972851 openers when you don´t need them. It´s pointless.

 

Lotus of poison might have a "good effect", but i don´t see how it does anything more than other openers and it´s on a 45 cooldown and your enemy must be in range, you loose stealth when you place a flower and you need them to be poisoned, the spin disable probably won´t matter except you plan on daze/stun him like 3 sek after that again. Why not just tech chase properly? Your combo from there will last well over 6 seconds, so the defence disable is not going to be all that useful. The only thing is if they tab out of it... it might be easier to open up again, but if the bd knows this it´s easiely dealt with + the first 6 seconds of the "combo" here will usually look like tech chase + some lmb+rmb + web, witch does not hurt that much a lot of the time people don´t escape before that anyways. And after that the debuff is gone.

Well the decent assassins I beat always lose because they never get me in a combo, I always dodge their obvious Turning Leaf as soon as stealth is over and if they do hit me I instantly stun break and dodge the next one they always do at the 18 second mark, they always use Shadow Slash during Lotus Fury so I just q/e during it never getting hit, they never spec Cyclone sweep for knockdown or Swiftstep so they have no other way to break my spin to ever combo me, I never run out of chi because they counter so obviously that I can just wait it out knowing they can't swiftstep me then X them and get all my chi back from the guaranteed hit soaring falcon. But I don't use a meta build so I have no problems with chi anyways from Multislash and Flaming Scourge. The good ones I stand no chance against as they exit stealth at random times, hit into a counter and they instantly CC you since they are teleported to melee range and have all their stuff spec'd for starting their combos. Assassins have insane anti ground skills with a 0 cooldown guard break that works on knockdowns and stuns.

[N3ro]

58 minutes ago, glaphen said:

Well the decent assassins I beat always lose because they never get me in a combo, I always dodge their obvious Turning Leaf as soon as stealth is over and if they do hit me I instantly stun break and dodge the next one they always do at the 18 second mark, they always use Shadow Slash during Lotus Fury so I just q/e during it never getting hit, they never spec Cyclone sweep for knockdown or Swiftstep so they have no other way to break my spin to ever combo me, I never run out of chi because they counter so obviously that I can just wait it out knowing they can't swiftstep me then X them and get all my chi back from the guaranteed hit soaring falcon. But I don't use a meta build so I have no problems with chi anyways from Multislash and Flaming Scourge. The good ones I stand no chance against as they exit stealth at random times, hit into a counter and they instantly CC you since they are teleported to melee range and have all their stuff spec'd for starting their combos. Assassins have insane anti ground skills with a 0 cooldown guard break that works on knockdowns and stuns.

How are they decent if they waste all their stuff in a way that you can predict that easily and dodge them all? Also their ground game (knockdowns) is not exactly all that op as often times if they play with that many knockdown, that they even have to use knockdowns inside their combos and not just as their openers, then often times if you just don´t press any button when you´re lying on the ground they won´t do anything to you at all in that time and just restealth and try again, because sins kit really does not work with knowdowns. They just want you to press your ground counter so they can get a free stun, or want you to f roll to be able to daze combo you, or they want to web you and stun you after and then again they can daze combo you if they play with the daze bomb, the 1 key (get up) is like whatever it does not change anything you can use that whenever, if they fail you get rewarded, if they don´t you don´t exactly get punished all that much.

 

Idk, i´ll stop explaining this. I´m currently rank 31 and 33 or so with 2 sins and one of them 46hm0. If that´s too bad for me to be able to tell you that sins f daze is kinda essential for your combos (unless you´re playing with a stun-only-build or you´re using the 1 daze instead, but that seems awkward to me), then find a better sin to basically tell you the same thing 99% of the time. If someone who is rang 30+ plays wayy differently i´d like to know his thoughts behind doing so, because i don´t think it´s good.

[SpartanGamer]

M8, don't even bother, this kid has no idea what he's talking about and is hard as a rock. Almost everything he said about a SIN is laughable...F specced to knockdown? What in the living...*cricket*! First of all, as a general guideline to follow, you generally want to avoid using knockdowns in your main combos because it procs additional defensive moves on the opponent. Dazes, in general, are better than knockdowns for this very reason, and for sins it's better to have f specced to daze because like N3ro said it is part of our dazelock combo. 

 

Lotus of Poison!? Are you a camel? It's utility isn't even good, lotus of escape(especially against BDs) is much,much,much,much, better. It's essentially a second trinket. Knockdowns are only good against spinning classes, but it is not necessary to spec into knockdowns with SIN's 3 or 1. Reason being, for ability 1, if you're in stealth and you get in range to 1 them, you also have a chance of getting hit by the BD's tab. It's just not worth to try risk that for a kd, when they can just either immediately f roll or groundcounter. Same situation really with 3, but I also go the damage route for better burst and punish potential. You do not NEED kds, when you can just find other methods around their spin(x dagger, turning leaf). 

 

" Pretty much yeah, bad BD destroys bad assassins, decent BD get destroyed by decent assassins, good BD destroy decent assassins but good assassins should destroy good BDs. "

Actually it's quite the opposite. BD counters Sin, thus it takes less skill and effort for a BD to beat a SIN. That's the general framework for how pvp class balance works, thus how that comparison should really read:

 

bad BD destroys bad SIN, bad BD beats/is equal to decent SIN, decent BD destroys decent SIN, decent BD has advantage over good SIN, good BD beats good SIN, good bd has advantage over really good sin. 

 

As a sin in this matchup, you literally have to play it perfectly and be able to do some pretty sick set-ups/bait combos. 

 

 

[glaphen]

35 minutes ago, SpartanGamer said:

M8, don't even bother, this kid has no idea what he's talking about and is hard as a rock. Almost everything he said about a SIN is laughable...F specced to knockdown? What in the living...*cricket*! First of all, as a general guideline to follow, you generally want to avoid using knockdowns in your main combos because it procs additional defensive moves on the opponent. Dazes, in general, are better than knockdowns for this very reason, and for sins it's better to have f specced to daze because like N3ro said it is part of our dazelock combo. 

 

Lotus of Poison!? Are you a camel? It's utility isn't even good, lotus of escape(especially against BDs) is much,much,much,much, better. It's essentially a second trinket. Knockdowns are only good against spinning classes, but it is not necessary to spec into knockdowns with SIN's 3 or 1. Reason being, for ability 1, if you're in stealth and you get in range to 1 them, you also have a chance of getting hit by the BD's tab. It's just not worth to try risk that for a kd, when they can just either immediately f roll or groundcounter. Same situation really with 3, but I also go the damage route for better burst and punish potential. You do not NEED kds, when you can just find other methods around their spin(x dagger, turning leaf). 

 

" Pretty much yeah, bad BD destroys bad assassins, decent BD get destroyed by decent assassins, good BD destroy decent assassins but good assassins should destroy good BDs. "

Actually it's quite the opposite. BD counters Sin, thus it takes less skill and effort for a BD to beat a SIN. That's the general framework for how pvp class balance works, thus how that comparison should really read:

 

bad BD destroys bad SIN, bad BD beats/is equal to decent SIN, decent BD destroys decent SIN, decent BD has advantage over good SIN, good BD beats good SIN, good bd has advantage over really good sin. 

 

As a sin in this matchup, you literally have to play it perfectly and be able to do some pretty sick set-ups/bait combos. 

 

 

As I said retard, BDs aren't killed by dazes they are killed by knockdowns, so learn to combo with knockdowns, you will kill BDs 20x easier having triple the openers on a class with 1 stun break. I bet you use Bolt Strike to extend stealth duration without the enemy hit by CC. BD has one dangerous skill, lightning draw, it has a 36 second cooldown, every class has an escape with 36 second cooldown, I bet you also use flower to escape from grabs while already hit with Lightning Rod. BD spin has a 3 meter range, Cyclone sweep has a 4 meter range, immediately ground counter, LOL, that is how I know you are terrible, that means you get a free 2 second stun out of a knockdown without even needing to web, F roll means you can tech chase it. Yeah and as I said dumbass I destroy assassins who rely on only Turning Leaf, x dagger I don't even know what you mean, it's a daze and like most retards you probably throw it the moment you enter stealth. You complain about BDs amazing spin then refuse to adapt with its countermeasures.  Lotus of Poison is an 8 meter range 3 second daze that goes through spin and then prevents spinning entirely for 6 seconds, there you go more dazes for your "dazelock" combo. Yeah no retard BD has the advantage over bad assassins because they don't even have HM Decoy or know how to combo, probably hitting into deflects constantly. Decent is 1750+ assassins while good assassins can be counted on the hand. Assassin has so many ways to get through spin it's insane, bad and decent assassins don't even do any of them but Turning Leaf which a BD is forced to invulnerability through, same with every single knockdown, pull or knockup. So lets count again shall we, bad and decent assassins get you into a combo with Turning Leaf....maybe Shadow Slash but you are too bad to even use that, good assassins can get you into a combo with Turning Leaf, Shadow Slash, Cyclone Sweep, Swiftstep, Lotus of Poison. Wow 2.5x the openers, and all of them have to be stopped by invulnerability you say? Not even losing any CC duration, actually gaining but these bads can't combo without the enemy completely motionless even with a free skill that break counters into a stun, want to know another secret, you can use Venom Swarm to stop them from even using counter so they can only 1 or F roll for a whole 8 seconds per 18 seconds.

[Shiune]

On 5.5.2016 at 3:02 PM, N3ro said: