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Summoner or FM for group content?


Kanade Sakuraba

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I was wondering which of these classes contributes more or is more desired in endgame content, the summoner or the force master?  I am currently leveling and know that the grind and cost gets to be a ton to actually gear up, so wanted to focus on one.  If anyone could tell me which they prefer in parties and why, or which they think would be better to main in regards to party content and dungeon clearing I'd really appreciate it!

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Well....

 

Summoner - very decent damage, party heal, cat can tank in case something goes wrong, when dead summoner can sacrifice the cat and rez all dead team members

 

Forcemaster - very good burst damage if played right, party protect (freeze upon hit), veil that shields party....and thats pretty much it.

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  • Summoner: Party-Heal (Bloom 'n Doom, Petal Storm) and that's pretty much it (Sure, Seed Shoud's also useful...). You shouldn't even reach the point, where the summoner has to sacrifice his cat in order to ressurect the party. Cat-Taunt actually is a double-edged sword: Can be useful, can also be very very~ stupid, especially in dungeons like Avalance Den.
  • FM: Party-Heal (stationary Shield); Frost Sheath (iFrame/Resist-Skill for the entire party with a very long duration), which is invaluable in dungeons like Awakened Necropolis; Glacial Beam and other skills as reliable trigger for Joint Attacks with Glacial Beam being especially useful against bosses.

 

You actually can't do anything wrong as Summoner, since you have to use Bloom 'n Doom anyway. I do prefer a well played FM though, since a FM is more valuable for party-play (at least in my opinion).

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9 hours ago, KhaosThanathan said:
  • Summoner:  Cat-Taunt actually is a double-edged sword: Can be useful, can also be very very~ stupid, especially in dungeons like Avalance Den.
  •  

 

In all the content in BnS, there are only really 2 times the cat taunt isnt useful.  Against Yeti (as you mentioned) and against Blackwyrm.  The rest of the time cat taunt is pretty useful to have, even if it's just on standby (imo)

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I prefer both in group content actually, there are some misleading in this thread though.

 

1. On Azura, fm's divine veil aint necessary, summoerer can easily use petal storm for that, as well as seed shroud, to protect when aoe is coming as back up

2. On yeti, if im the strongest dps summoer in the group, which is normal for me as im geared, means im tanking the yeti, the trick to using cat taunt in yeti, is once you or the tank get grapped to get thrown, u taunt with your cat, that way, first jump from yeti will land on cat, and everybody has longer to walk over tank to get heat buff.

 

There are places as mention in this thread where cat taunt will either wipe or get lots of people killed, like blackwyn, and on Azura when he trows his 4 swords.

 

When thats said, I play both fm and summoner, and love both of their playstyles.

 

My advice to you is:

Try both and see what fits your playstyle, which is the most importain in the first place, since if your not enjoyin how it fits and feels. you will get burned out :)

 

Also the mayor difference in these two is, forcemasters, take longer to master since it has x10 more different combos to learn then summoerer.

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15 minutes ago, Gixer said:

In all the content in BnS, there are only really 2 times the cat taunt isnt useful.  Against Yeti (as you mentioned) and against Blackwyrm.  The rest of the time cat taunt is pretty useful to have, even if it's just on standby (imo)

Sure, if you want to *cricket* up with some classes DPS, go on with your cat-taunt. Cat-taunt is awesome for soloing stuff, but in decent parties, it's a hindrance.

 

As to SweetJusts Post: The part with having more time to reach the grabbed person (Yeti) is nonsense. The heat-buff the grabbed person gets has a fixed duration. The person who receives that buff has to keep lying around or else the buff will disappear. The only thing cat-taunt does in that situation is that the Yeti won't jump to the lying person. That doesn't actually mean that the cat-taunt is necessary in that situation, since the lying person can simply iFrame the incoming damage from the Yeti's jump. As FM, you only have to use either Q or E after the heat-buff disappears.

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12 minutes ago, KhaosThanathan said:

Sure, if you want to *cricket* up with some classes DPS, go on with your cat-taunt. Cat-taunt is awesome for soloing stuff, but in decent parties, it's a hindrance.

 

As to SweetJusts Post: The part with having more time to reach the grabbed person (Yeti) is nonsense. The heat-buff the grabbed person gets has a fixed duration. The person who receives that buff has to keep lying around or else the buff will disappear. The only thing cat-taunt does in that situation is that the Yeti won't jump to the lying person. That doesn't actually mean that the cat-taunt is necessary in that situation, since the lying person can simply iFrame the incoming damage from the Yeti's jump. As FM, you only have to use either Q or E after the heat-buff disappears.

Or the smn could just do whatever any good summoner would do and save the hassle by taunting with cat, and then stunning the yeti. there is no reason to not use taunt during yeti and smn are fantastic for this dungeon.

 

I'm not sure I agree with saying smn shouldn't taunt with cat for asura either. As they can taunt, and then once asura picks the cat as the sword target the smn runs around in circles around the edge until the 4th one is out, then send the cat back in to taunt.

 

Taunt is very useful for both these bosses as long as the smn knows the mechanic and exploits it properly. I agree that cats shouldn't taunt on BW though unless they are off the opposite faction, and they are doing it purely to screw with the other people. In which case it has its use there in much different ways.

 

I am not a smn, these words are all purely of the opinion of another class that wishes they had the versatility of smn cc.

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Not having more time, as clock wise, I mean so the tank actually dont have to iframe the jump and wait till the knockout timer runs, out which gives people more time to run over the tank. I didnt say its necessary, just saying it can be used to make the game play easier, and I will for sure do it, as summoer if im tanking, that way I save my one iframe for something else.

 

Im guessing you are a forcemaster, you forgetting im one as well, so yeah I know it.

 

But I can see from your post, you are biased since you play forcemaster not summoer.

 

make him decide himself, from what he likes.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, SweetJust said:

Not having more time, as clock wise, I mean so the tank actually dont have to iframe the jump and wait till the knockout timer runs, out which gives people more time to run over the tank. I didnt say its necessary, just saying it can be used to make the game play easier, and I will for sure do it, as summoer if im tanking, that way I save my one iframe for something else.

 

Im guessing you are a forcemaster, you forgetting im one as well, so yeah I know it.

 

But I can see from your post, you are biased since you play forcemaster not summoer.

 

make him decide himself, from what he likes.

 

 

 

 

I actually also play both classes. That's also the reason as to why I think that FM is more versatile. I do agree with you that s/he has to play both classes to be actually able to decide which class suits him/her better.

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Thanks all for the input ^_^v For now I decided to go with my newbie summoner (mostly b/c she's just so cute) but also because I already have a WL at HM5 and so while ranged play is familiar to me, being able to solo well on SMN with the kitty tank is novel and while FM is fun, I think SMN will have an easier time soloing things.  

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2 hours ago, Gixer said:

In all the content in BnS, there are only really 2 times the cat taunt isnt useful.  Against Yeti (as you mentioned) and against Blackwyrm.  The rest of the time cat taunt is pretty useful to have, even if it's just on standby (imo)

Cat taunt isn't useful against Mushin's Tower, since some bosses are immune to it, and Asura's fire phase, which makes the swords land directly ontop of him and screw over all melees.

12 hours ago, KhaosThanathan said:
  • Frost Sheath (iFrame/Resist-Skill for the entire party with a very long duration), which is invaluable in dungeons like Awakened Necropolis

Frost Sheath isn't necessary in Awakened Necro. Just kill 3 scorpion adds for the defense buff, then kill the 4th on the second set.

 

----

 

Every class has their own form of contribution:

  • Force Master: Damage, Frost Sheath and anti-projectile shield to protect the party, pull downed party mates.
  • Summoner: Damage, sub-tank, healing, anti-projectile shield and Dandelion to protect the party, shield downed party mates, grab.
  • Warlock: Damage, Soulburn.
  • Kung Fu Master: Tank, Grab or Fighting Spirit, some party critical damage buff.
  • Blade Master: Tank, Winged Protector to protect the party.
  • Destroyer: Damage, grab, rescue and shield downed party mates.
  • Blade Dancer: Grab, some party shield.
  • Soul Fighter: Healing (that's literally all they can do from what I'm told).
  • Assassin: Damage, evasion tank, party stealth past mobs, anti-projectile smokescreen and Decoy to protect the party, downed party pull or Fighting Spirit, grab.

A Summoner has a bigger kit than Force Master and contributes more overall. Force Masters are noted for Frost Sheath but it's not always necessary, and it doesn't work on someone who's already frozen by Yeti. However, neither Summoner or Force Master have offensive party buffs, nor can they act as true tanks (ranged classes have a tendency to kite the boss, which screws over all melees).

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1 hour ago, SweetJust said:

lol wtf  :)

Cat taunt works on all bosses in mushin tower :)

Really? Because I've heard Summoner complaints on Floor 8 where Mushin completely ignored the cat, on day 1 on said floor's inclusion where Mushin was literally the hardest content at the time.

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summoner also have pretty good boss CC with his cat grab.also the grab apply 50% defence reduction debuff on the boss for 10 sec thats pretty nice aswell.

 

 

whoever said mushin tower  is hardest content for summoner must be not in his right mind.i killed mushin of darkness on my sum with only 345 ap back when it come out.yes he does ignore your cat but quess what? you can CC him whole time and when sum root him he just sit there  doing nothing.

same for f15 its a joke to kill it with summoner.

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1 hour ago, Shadovvv said:

Really? Because I've heard Summoner complaints on Floor 8 where Mushin completely ignored the cat, on day 1 on said floor's inclusion where Mushin was literally the hardest content at the time.

I swim through all floors, only missing 15th floor, the last phase with naksun at 400k hp left, I haven't figure out yet :D

 

its only when mushin does like a red phase cat taunt dont work, if its where his in the air and shooting down, u just use petal and once his down, cat taunt :)

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1 hour ago, SkoobyDoo said:

whoever said mushin tower  is hardest content for summoner must be not in his right mind.i killed mushin of darkness on my sum with only 345 ap back when it come out.yes he does ignore your cat but quess what? you can CC him whole time and when sum root him he just sit there  doing nothing.

same for f15 its a joke to kill it with summoner.

I meant in general. Mushin sat as the most powerful, difficult boss and nothing surpassed him at the time, as Naksun does now.

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20 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

blablabla, and it doesn't work on someone who's already frozen by Yeti. blablabla

Frost Sheath overide yeti frost skill and noone die.Read before posting.

As FM I can tank any boss just fine,even ogres in SSP but thats annoying.Didn't tryed BW thu.However I can just fine tank any boss in any dungeon without problem.We are doing asura in 3 man also and it's a breeze.Again get your facts straight before posting

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You are clueless mate,thats it.As a Person with nearly 600 yeti kills I can guarantee you that ice sheath override the frost from yeti and noone die unless is stupid enough to press F and unfreeze himself.Period.

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3 minutes ago, Teffy said:

Frost Sheath overide yeti frost skill and noone die.Read before posting.

It stops cold wave stacks from accumulating, but it doesn't block the ground pound when already frozen. I've seen people die and my own dragonblood being lost whenever the party fails heat phase and got frozen by Yeti even if a Force Master manages to Frost Sheath before the ground pound.

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An experienced summoner is more beneficial to the party than an experienced FM from what I've seen. Reasons:

 

-Cat pounce for 10 sec 50% armor reduction w/o sacrificing DPS like BD/Des when they lift. Best way to start a boss fight hands down.

-Most powerful cc in game with grasping roots (in hands of exp'd sum it's excellent, combined with enhanced seed shroud and true friend it can completely replace FM even in yeti).

-Cat (Q) can off-tank when tank/aggro holder messes up. Can also completely tank most bosses with proper Q/E and CC's without having to run laps like FM which is very important for any melee members in party.

-Petal Storm for projectile protection (FM has Divine Veil) but with added use of protecting teammates while they recover chi.

-AoE heal on 18s CD to support tank/help group heal back up after taking a hit (although nerfed asf, still useful).

-Cat guards sum in case they are KO'd and immunes them while recovering chi, other teammates don't have to cut DPS to help/protect.

-FM needs to pay more attention/hit more buttons to keep rotation up and DPS up but without a significantly higher dmg output.

 

If you just melt bosses with overgear FM is likely better though due to higher DPS. Fm's are also a bit more useful on sjp second boss since they have both a double stun on 3 and a double knockdown on tab for the three adds that spawn (=more flexibility/usefulness at that phase).

 

Ofc all this is between  players which are equally geared and around the same level of skill. A bad sum can be a lot more damaging to the party than a bad FM.

 

 

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In future dungeons like these a Summoner's (or Assassin's) party stealth is *mandatory* to perform mechanics or you'll never kill the boss. A Force Master, or any other class, is incapable of completing this mechanic.

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