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Randomonium

The Hax R Back

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DBug   
3 hours ago, Rukkirii said:

The team is looking into multiple options including the player suggestion of removing or reducing the damage of the weapon crates.

Here's an idea, I know it's crazy but hear me out: How about don't touch the crates and remove or reduce the hackers.

 

RUINING THE GAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM.

Edited by DBug

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28 minutes ago, DBug said:

Here's an idea, I know it's crazy but hear me out: How about don't touch the crates and remove or reduce the hackers

RUINING THE GAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM.

The problem is that the hackers are everywhere in SSP ruining the experience for everyone.  The devs are always a step behind in dealing with them.  So the chain has to go:

 

Plan A:

Detect and Ban Hackers.

Can We do this effectively right now?  No.  Go to plan B.

 

Plan B:

Put GMs and Mods in the game to manually ban hackers and bots.
Can we do this effectively right now?  No, we aren't give a budget to hire GMs.  Go to plan C.

 

Plan C:

Make hackers less of a threat to legitimate players by removing the weapons they use to wipe out whole teams in seconds.

Can we do this effectively right now?  Yes.  A couple of lines of code and its done and hackers cannot adapt unless they find way to spawn in weaps.

Will this negatively affect legitimate players.  The number of players legitimately using these weapons for intended purposes in SSP is negligible so put up against the collective damage of leaving them in, there is no argument.  Implement at soonest.

 

Future Development Efforts--

Plan D:

Make hacking the game undesirable versus the possibility of permanent bans.  Possible methods include lowering the prestige gained from killing other players in this zone, binding rewards so they cannot be sold, making some quests of limited repeatability.

Can we do this effectively right now?  Not with currently available options and will result in negative impact on legitimate players.  Will continue to evaluate.

Edited by Randomonium

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DBug   
6 minutes ago, Randomonium said:

The problem is that the hackers are everywhere in SSP ruining the experience for everyone.  The devs are always a step behind in dealing with them.  So the chain has to go:

At that point it's just a game of cat and mouse, those who want to cheat the system will find ways and the Dev Team's ability to develop counter-measures is woefully behind the times.

However, removing content and features of the game because of cheaters is counter-productive and undermines the faith players should have in the developer's ability to even deal with the hacking problem (as if how rampant it is wasn't a big enough indicator). It doesn't solve a problem, it just adds another to it.

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Right now the hackers are not a threat without those weapons, even in overwhelming numbers they can usually be dealt with.  I'm sorry if you are having so much fun with them, but for the sake of the entire zone they simply have to go.  Hopefully it will just be temporary and NC can do a better job of protecting the game memory so hacks aren't so easy to pull off.  If you really don't see the reasoning I must question your motives for wanting them to stay.

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DBug   
6 minutes ago, Randomonium said:

If you really don't see the reasoning I must question your motives for wanting them to stay.

I see the reasoning and it's stupid.

 

It breeds the whole "Oh, bots can abuse it. So let's just drop the feature from the game" when said feature is actually beneficial to the gameplay experience when utilized legitimately. It's builds upon a flawed principle that's basically giving up beneficial parts of the game because of a select few who want to cheat the system and gain an unfair advantage. Additionally, it even fails to prevent them from further cheating the system to their advantage.

 

Obviously doing nothing doesn't solve anything either, but taking away features that serve legitimate purposes for a particular group of players is not the proper solution. Yes, the bots by themselves aren't much of a threat now because they can just grab weapons. Giving the bot developers an incentive to change that will only further undermine the gameplay experience and make dealing with them that much more difficult.

 

The weapons in the crate are far from the first to fall victim to this stupidity should such a change be implemented, and at this rate they won't be the last if something else isn't done to deal with the growing problem of bots overall.

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sciel   

Taking a good glance at some "hacking" forums, I don't think the teleport hacks can be fixed easily since it is said that movement in this game is supposedly handled on client side; Even on other servers, the hacks seem to be found every now and then. 

 

I can only see a couple of solutions to this (some mentioned in previous posts) that can implemented in the short term.

 

1. Hire GMs to monitor. This will end up being a cat and mouse game, you ban more and they just create more mule accounts to hack. Of course, it does take time to level these accounts.

 

2. Reduce/Limit prestige earnt from kills using SSP weapons. If there's no/minimal reward, the hackers are less likely to do it...right?

 

3. Remove/Reduce effectiveness of SSP weapons. The end all solution.

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Jem   

REMOVE

THE

CRATES

 

ALL of these speed hackers have SHIT tier gear and can be one shot once they get CC'd. 

Edited by Jem

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KatHead   

There are actually people in this thread telling ncs to take the easy way out. 

 

Remove Dragon Certs

 

Remove Crates

 

Whats next ?

 

Until NCS actually does something (like hire some in game gms), removing something in game will just lead the cheaters to the next easiest path. Removing game features because it is a easy fix is a bad idea, stop asking ncs to be a crappy company and ask them to do this correctly. 

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6 minutes ago, KatHead said:

Until NCS actually does something (like hire some in game gms), removing something in game will just lead the cheaters to the next easiest path. Removing game features because it is a easy fix is a bad idea, stop asking ncs to be a crappy company and ask them to do this correctly. 

Admitted it's simply a bandaid on a gushing wound, but the NCWest dev team are more medics than surgeons.  They can't do much with the game unless Team Bloodlust is enlisted and they don't work this old code anymore.  You can't ask them to rewrite the memory protection, but removing weapons as a temporary fix should be within their capabilities.  All I know is something has to be done to fight back against these scum and removing their main method of mayhem is the only option at the moment.  Also unmasking them in SSP so we can report them would be super helpful.

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Arcayne   
2 hours ago, DBug said:

I see the reasoning and it's stupid.

 

It breeds the whole "Oh, bots can abuse it. So let's just drop the feature from the game" when said feature is actually beneficial to the gameplay experience when utilized legitimately. It's builds upon a flawed principle that's basically giving up beneficial parts of the game because of a select few who want to cheat the system and gain an unfair advantage. Additionally, it even fails to prevent them from further cheating the system to their advantage.

 

Obviously doing nothing doesn't solve anything either, but taking away features that serve legitimate purposes for a particular group of players is not the proper solution. Yes, the bots by themselves aren't much of a threat now because they can just grab weapons. Giving the bot developers an incentive to change that will only further undermine the gameplay experience and make dealing with them that much more difficult.

 

The weapons in the crate are far from the first to fall victim to this stupidity should such a change be implemented, and at this rate they won't be the last if something else isn't done to deal with the growing problem of bots overall.

I tend to agree with this. If the only solution to this haxor rampage worth exploring is removing in game tools provided for actual players, then what's next?

 

The cross faction dungeon tool, and subsequent lobbies it provides are quite beneficial to botters, haxors, and those that employ them. Should we go ahead and remove that too. What follows that?

 

Quite the slippery slope indeed.

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NaoiAi   
8 hours ago, Rukkirii said:

Hello everyone,

 

 

 

 

The development team is very aware and understand how frustrating the hacking situation within Soulstone Plains can be and they are working diligently on addressing the issue as soon as possible. The team is looking into multiple options including the player suggestion of removing or reducing the damage of the weapon crates. Once the most feasible option has been decided, the change will be implemented around May 11.

 

 

 

 

We will be sure to keep you in the know regarding any possible developmental changes that may arise.

 

 

The weapons are vital for the outnumbered faction to function on my server. We can muster one of the five channels if all prime clans are trying their best for an hour or two before the other faction choke holds them all again with 30 players to our 3. I strongly petition that you do not nerf these to combat bots as factions that are already hopelessly outmatched would have literally no purpose existing whatsoever on SSP. The sole reason I am able to play and enjoy this game when pitted at such odds is because of these tools.

 

They have functional counterplay as it is and I enjoy them while not botting. I spend over 70% of my game time in SSP killing people (And bots).

 

If these are nerfed to counter bots the game will need more immediate balancing for outnumbered factions as they will have no hope of accomplishing anything whatsoever in SSP. A number adjustment is a quick and easy fix to the weapons, as is their removal. I am not advocating their stay forever but once again they are the only tool a faction with no future in the game has against the larger one.

 

Take action against botters not players. The main problems with bots are speedhacking and channel manipulation via maxing out its population with dualboxers. I want to state again I have never even a single time witnessed a speedhacking bot using a weapon but have been attacked and killed inside of my command tent by speedhacking players (Always summoners).

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Satamaya   
9 hours ago, Rukkirii said:

Hello everyone,

 

 

 

 

The development team is very aware and understand how frustrating the hacking situation within Soulstone Plains can be and they are working diligently on addressing the issue as soon as possible. The team is looking into multiple options including the player suggestion of removing or reducing the damage of the weapon crates. Once the most feasible option has been decided, the change will be implemented around May 11.

 

 

 

 

We will be sure to keep you in the know regarding any possible developmental changes that may arise.

 

 

This is honestly one of the worst things you could possibly do to soulstone plains. Crimson is heavily out manned on Mushin throughout general day use. They get together sometimes at night and take one channel for 1-2 rounds and then it's back to being out manned on every channel. It's possible, but really unrealistic to get kills in a drive by with normal skills as a legitimate player. The crates make it reasonable for us to gain prestige since we can't win consistently. By removing those crates you're hardly preventing hackers from doing what they already do. These guys are hacking, they don't need the weapons. Look at arena and the summoners there, they are perma invulnerable the entire match.

 

Teleporting in SS plains -> Check

Perma Invulnerability in arena -> Check

 

They will just mix the two together in SS plains and are going to get free kills guarunteed, what is this doing but messing up the underdogs?

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sciel   
17 minutes ago, Satamaya said:

This is honestly one of the worst things you could possibly do to soulstone plains. Crimson is heavily out manned on Mushin throughout general day use. They get together sometimes at night and take one channel for 1-2 rounds and then it's back to being out manned on every channel. It's possible, but really unrealistic to get kills in a drive by with normal skills as a legitimate player. The crates make it reasonable for us to gain prestige since we can't win consistently. By removing those crates you're hardly preventing hackers from doing what they already do. These guys are hacking, they don't need the weapons. Look at arena and the summoners there, they are perma invulnerable the entire match.

 

Teleporting in SS plains -> Check

Perma Invulnerability in arena -> Check

 

They will just mix the two together in SS plains and are going to get free kills guarunteed, what is this doing but messing up the underdogs?

Removing the crates does prevent the hackers from griefing/stealing prestige from legit players though.  

 

1. The only reason the hackers are such a big problem in SSP is that they are able to kill with the weapons; Remove that, and even with their tele hack, they will be doing jack shit with their Infernal weapons.

 

2. The permanent invul is actually a hack that can only be performed via a (summoner) bot and not by a player. Guess what...most of the hackers that are tele-ing with the guns in SSP are actual players/gold farmers.  

Edited by sciel

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Windy   

It makes the game unfair.And NCsoft does not react unless it looses massively population and subs.I cancelled mine ,not yet leaving game but fair close. I don't like to feel that I'm abused in behind of monitor instead to have fun .This can't continue like that and us ,as community have to stay up against this thing and players i guess they know what to do about this.Solution is simple : don't pay until it gets solved .

Set tickets over tickets and use media in order to make them react.

 

Over this: those weapons NEED to be removed from game ,the possibility to attack opposite NPC's without wearing an uniform -the same ,corpse camping should not be allowed under no circumstances . Remove the ''Undentified '' feature ,wich allows the player to be hidden so we can report them. (this feature brings up more and more hackers every day). Fact we loose prestige if we die is again unfair because we actually spent time for it ,we should be able to keep the prestige somehow (include some protecting charms or something,i don't care ).I left WildStar because i always lost my loot if crashed after one hour dungeon or crashed right after a world boss been killed .I'll leave from here for sure if i'm not able to keep my loot (whatever this includes ) if i was playing (farming ) for it. NCsoft needs to implement decent solutions for this segment of market ,wich are us.Some boats just don't float in same conditions ,you know.

 

Good luck with getting Skypetal Plains working and available to play. Until then ,i won't pay a dime anymore for the game and until arena won't get fixed .I'm tired of ''we are loocking into this '',really.

Edited by Windy

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6 hours ago, Randomonium said:

The problem is that the hackers are everywhere in SSP ruining the experience for everyone.  The devs are always a step behind in dealing with them.  So the chain has to go:

 

Plan A:

Detect and Ban Hackers.

Can We do this effectively right now?  No.  Go to plan B.

 

Plan B:

Put GMs and Mods in the game to manually ban hackers and bots.
Can we do this effectively right now?  No, we aren't give a budget to hire GMs.  Go to plan C.

 

Plan C:

Make hackers less of a threat to legitimate players by removing the weapons they use to wipe out whole teams in seconds.

Can we do this effectively right now?  Yes.  A couple of lines of code and its done and hackers cannot adapt unless they find way to spawn in weaps.

Will this negatively affect legitimate players.  The number of players legitimately using these weapons for intended purposes in SSP is negligible so put up against the collective damage of leaving them in, there is no argument.  Implement at soonest.

 

Future Development Efforts--

Plan D:

Make hacking the game undesirable versus the possibility of permanent bans.  Possible methods include lowering the prestige gained from killing other players in this zone, binding rewards so they cannot be sold, making some quests of limited repeatability.

Can we do this effectively right now?  Not with currently available options and will result in negative impact on legitimate players.  Will continue to evaluate.

With plan c, I'd add one more potential preventative measure which is disabling the ability to take prestige if you have an assassin mask on. There...

 

One of the biggest problems in ssp is solved. Just a couple lines of simple, easy code. 

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Arcayne   
16 minutes ago, SpartanGamer said:

With plan c, I'd add one more potential preventative measure which is disabling the ability to take prestige if you have an assassin mask on. There...

 

One of the biggest problems in ssp is solved. Just a couple lines of simple, easy code. 

Not a bad idea, but I'd take it a step further.

 

NC, If you're hell bent on removing something just remove that mask from the game alltogether.

 

An item that renders you completely anonymous to other players and blocks reports or any attempt at identification? If you've played online in NA for as long as I have, you'd know coming in that the thing was gonna be a haxor magnet from the start.

 

That mask was bound to be exploited.

Edited by Arcayne

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3 minutes ago, Arcayne said:

Not a bad idea, but I'd take it a step further. If you're hell bent on removing something just remove that mask from the game alltogether.

 

An item that renders you completely anonymous to other players and blocks reports or any attempt at identification? If you've played online in NA for as long as I have, you'd know coming in that the thing was gonna be a haxor magnet from the start.

Yeah, I'm completely ok with that. Better would be to remove the mask features that makes them unreportable and hides their name, but not the mask itself since many players want/like the mask's look. Honestly, if there hacking prevention software sucks this much balls, then I don't get why they don't already do such SIMPLE things like removing the masks, guns,etc, or even dabbling in the code and adding simple functions/conditional statements that detect variables such as cooldowns, speed of the player, etc, that immediately detect and auto-boot/ban/ or disable them from getting prestige. 

 

Some possible and incomprehensibly simple solutions are easily at their disposal, yet nothing has been done to combat such a huge problem. It's incompetence at this point. 

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Arcayne   
11 minutes ago, SpartanGamer said:

Yeah, I'm completely ok with that. Better would be to remove the mask features that makes them unreportable and hides their name, but not the mask itself since many players want/like the mask's look. Honestly, if there hacking prevention software sucks this much balls, then I don't get why they don't already do such SIMPLE things like removing the masks, guns,etc, or even dabbling in the code and adding simple functions/conditional statements that detect variables such as cooldowns, speed of the player, etc, that immediately detect and auto-boot/ban/ or disable them from getting prestige. 

 

Some possible and incomprehensibly simple solutions are easily at their disposal, yet nothing has been done to combat such a huge problem. It's incompetence at this point. 

Agreed.

 

I've been dealing with NCsoft since 2009, and if there's one thing I've learned, it's that NCWest has next to no authority when it comes to making major alterations to the game codes of the titles they port over. Which amounts to NCWest essentially sitting on their hands while the overlords in NCKorea decide whether or not to allow changes. Which BTW, never happens.

 

Fact is NCK couldn't give two shits about regions outside their home turf. To them, we're cows, (or whales), to be milked until we're dry. Then they simply pull the plug, (or games go into maintenance mode, with updates coming in strictly for cash shops), when it's no longer profitable. So nothing about this surprises me.

 

It's why I now essentially play BnS as a Barbie Dress Up Online game. Create alts, dress them up, do a few dungeons, then I log and go play something else. I've seen this movie before, and it never ends well.

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Buds   

Don't trust what the client send to the server.

 

We know you want to make the game as responsive and fast as possible and you don't want to make realtime checks.

So dev have to implement server-side background check of actions made by either all users or reported users.

 

Check cooldowns, check coordinates for abnormal teleport, repeted path for very long time.

Track the golds, ban them all, every day.

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Jozerra   

As the title says,here we go:

 

(Forwarded to Support)

 

Nothing left to say.

Edited by PhoenixMitra
Removed video and passed on to CS.

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lolwat   
17 hours ago, Rukkirii said:

Hello everyone,

The development team is very aware and understand how frustrating the hacking situation within Soulstone Plains can be and they are working diligently on addressing the issue as soon as possible. The team is looking into multiple options including the player suggestion of removing or reducing the damage of the weapon crates. Once the most feasible option has been decided, the change will be implemented around May 1

We will be sure t keep you in the know regarding any possible developmental changes that may arise. 

Awesome! May 11! I really hope they decide for the removal of them in general. But if they do decide to just reduce the damage, please think wisely on this. Even at half damage, it will be still too much with its current cast time. Maybe add a longer cast time to the weapon. 2.5-3 sec maybe. Overall solution is to remove it. They will still probably get around the cast time/cd.

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Hi,

 

Thank you so much for the report. We have removed the links and passed them on to our Support team for investigation.

 

Please report any further incidents directly to our Support team https://support.bladeandsoul.com/hc/en-us. Unfortunately, the forum is  not the appropriate place for these reports, since we can not look into this matter for you here.

 

We appreciate your help!

 

Team Blade & Soul

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Nattia   

I would not miss weapons in SSP, who the hell uses them anyway... except bots and hackers

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Jem   

IIRC, those weapon crates in Soulstone plains were NEVER there in the first place. They were only recently added because of servers having a huge population difference between factions AND when people got overgeared enough, they had like 100k+ HP, that's it. Other regions never had them until recently. So even if they are gone, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

 

Either way, I am all for both removing the crates AND removing the hackers. These hackers have been here for almost 2 months now and hardly anything is being done. So much for a 'longterm conclusion'. Whatever the hell that is.

Edited by Jem

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