Adjusting content to playstyle

[sidcor]

I watched the recent live stream video.  Around the 17:40 minute mark, Associate Producer Jonathan Lien mentioned that they listened to the players and were making changes so that PVPers can get the Hongmoon Skill Books by doing the playstyle they like (the cost was high but that isn't the point of this).  Reasons included PVPers : they might not enjoy doing PVE or want to spend their limited time doing PVE and wanted to be rewarded for their style of gameplay.  So changes are being made so they can purchase the items with PVP currency from a trader.  I agree with this sort of change.

 

I am asking now that  you be just as accommodating to the PVEers who need Soulstones.  My friends and I  enjoy the PVE side of the game but just don't enjoy PVP (yes we tried it).  We are approaching the point we are going to walk away from the game because we cannot continue with our playstyle to be successful.  If you can make a change to accommodate the PVPers playstyle (which I do approve of) could you please accommodate the PVEers who need Soulstones that do not enjoy PVP or have time to spend on it and want to be rewarded for their gameplay.  Adding Soulstones to PVE dailies or quest rewards would help.

 

Thank you for your time.

[LOLCats]

Just now, OneYouHate said:

Soulstones are gotten w/ pve based dailies..

Soulstones are gotten with PVE based dailies in Faction uniform and involves PVP most of the time...    Are you playing the same game?

[OneYouHate]

Soulstones are gotten w/ pve based dailies..

[sidcor]

4 minutes ago, OneYouHate said:

Soulstones are gotten w/ pve based dailies..

Nice play on words, PVE BASED dailies.  However we both know that it involves equipping the PVP uniform to do those dailies.   The only PVE daily that gives Soulstones is Tome of Exile for 2 soulstones.  

 

I am asking for Soulstone rewards for doing PVE only activites.

[Xellon]

I agree. There are a large time length where I do and don't do pvp. With the bots I've been hearing about, I'd like to avoid pvp till its solved so I don't hate it. Getting Soulstones is easy during certain times of day when the servers aren't too full or when one faction is overwhealming a channel which makes it easy.

 

But I want to be able to somehow get stones without the need of equipping a faction outfit.

[DomiSotto]

OP, the distinction that needs to be made is in the gearing.

 

Arena PvP is bolstered and gear independent. It is strictly PvP, with no involvement of the NPCs. It is a very distinctive playstyle.

 

All other activities in the game are based on the PvE achieved gear, and you can only succeed if you are PvE geared. The best source of soulstones is SSP, and good luck doing it without PvE gear. The fact that an opposing faction is allowed to intervene is very minor. Play on a dominant faction on your server, and it is a purely PvE battle.

 

Now, the threshold to get rewards in SSP is so high that in this game where going for 40 min without earning anything is not acceptable is a horrible, horrible, horrible thing, but what can you do. The SSP is designed to only give more to those who are already geared, while barring those who are not, and that's the main flaw of the design.

 

That's the usual dilemma: to get gold you need gear, to get gear you need gold. SS are also the cheapest commodity compared to all other million mats you need. If you are a consummate PvEer, you can run the dungeon with your friend, and split stuff like Poharan's perfumes and Machismos and get the soulstones.

 

You'll be getting what you want and doing what you like. You have far more options in the main stream gear than an Arena player (or anyone w/o the mainstream gear ).

 

Now, if by saying you are a PvE'er and meaning you prefer a solo/small party play that does not run the dungeons either, well, this game is not going to let you gear up too far on that, so, well, just do what you can.

 

Seriously, if that was instituted, than every other material should be tied to the OW PvP or arenas as well. 

[Syanonn]

Think it is already compromised, not forcing you to actually PvP but farm faction NPCs for soulstones.

I think this zen bean for skills is horrible, now the bots are gonna be even harder to beat

[Meiling]

I've never pvped to get my soulstones. If you're on a server that isn't one sided and refuse to do those dailies for some reason, then get 4 people and run dungeons for mats to sell.

[sidcor]

52 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

<snip>

I agree with you on most of what you said.  My friends and I do do the dungeons although we do them as cross server as we are currently only have  4 until the other 2 catch up to us.  We currently can't do most of the silverfrost events as we cannot produce the damage necessary to get rewarded for effort.  

However, that isn't the point.  An Associate Producer came out and said the one thing most developers and producers will not say.  He listed  the reasons  (very bluntly) for one playstyle to not want to do certain things and then he agreed with it and procured a change in the gameplay to accommodate that playstyle.   He made it ok for PVP players to not have to do PVE to get items they  want.  By that logic, it should be ok to reciprocate that.  I am asking that Soulstones be that item.  

 

The producer  opened the genie bottle and gave one side what they want, it's fair for the other side to ask in return.

28 minutes ago, Syanonn said:

Think it is already compromised, not forcing you to actually PvP but farm faction NPCs for soulstones.

I think this zen bean for skills is horrible, now the bots are gonna be even harder to beat

If I put on a Faction uniform I am then bound by PVP playstyle.  Now if they want to make it instanced where other side faction players cannot enter it and make it a PVE based faction event, I would accept that as well.

19 minutes ago, Meiling said:

I've never pvped to get my soulstones. If you're on a server that isn't one sided and refuse to do those dailies for some reason, then get 4 people and run dungeons for mats to sell.

Besides the economy being messed up as it is,  one playstyle should never have dominate access to a commodity that everyone needs.  (Be it hongmoon skills, soulstones, stingers, etc.)  I fully support PVP players having access to stuff they need thru PVP playstyle.     MMO's do not have to be Reese's where the peanut butter(PVE) and chocolate(PVP) mix. My experience in MMO's has been that PVP and PVE do better when they don't mix.  You have less confrontation over which side is ruining the game for the other (whether talking about gear or skillsets).  Two paths with each getting what they need through a playstyle they enjoy makes alot more sense.  And for those that like both are even better off as they get the true benefit of both.

[Meiling]

2 hours ago, sidcor said:

Beides the economy being messed up as it is,  one playstyle should never have dominate access to a commodity that everyone needs.  (Be it hongmoon skills, soulstones, stingers, etc.)  I fully support PVP players having access to stuff they need thru PVP playstyle.     MMO's do not have to be Reese's where the peanut butter(PVE) and chocolate(PVP) mix. My experience in MMO's has been that PVP and PVE do better when they don't mix.  You have less confrontation over which side is ruining the game for the other (whether talking about gear or skillsets).  Two paths with each getting what they need through a playstyle they enjoy makes alot more sense.  And for those that like both are even better off as they get the true benefit of both.

I don't get why you're mentioning this to me though. I never said what they are adding to pvp is bad, it's a good idea since if you only pvp you don't need darts, moonstones  or anything like that only the skills. When it comes down to soulstones getting it pve wise, faction dailies is nearly only pve with a rare chance of pvp and at the end of the day if you really enjoy the pve then get 3 friends and farm instances all day long, I've done that and made more money than I needed and have my stuff upgraded. The main issue they had was for pvpers to get they hongmoon skills and now it's solved atm although the prices do seem crazy.

Anyways, all I was saying to the people mentioning how soulstones are blocked behind pvp is total BS and if by chance you're on the side without the numbers then all you need to do is farm 4 man awakened which gives enough gold as is.

[Proxima]

Why are people scared to put on their pvp uniform?

[OneYouHate]

15 minutes ago, Proxima said:

Why are people scared to put on their pvp uniform?

I don't know, perhaps they have issues dealing with a target that doesn't drop decals on the ground and give them a chance to see telegraphed attacks.

[NN13]

18 minutes ago, OneYouHate said:

I don't know, perhaps they have issues dealing with a target that doesn't drop decals on the ground and give them a chance to see telegraphed attacks.

Or perhaps they p[lay a melee with high latency and it is near-impossible for them to OWPvP properly.

 

There is just one small questions I want to ask everyone who opposes the idea of adding Soulstones to PvE dungeons/missions -

Why do you oppose it?

If it was still level 45 content, I would have understood that you could make gold from Soulstones. But now, making gold is so much easier. And there are much better things to sell for gold. Like Frozen Stingers and all. Moreover, the value of Soulstones are so low now that they are not as profitable.

 

Also, let's just say NCSoft adds 30 Soulstones to Asura daily, and 10 to every other Silverfrost heroic daily. Thats like 70 soulstones a day from PvE. How exactly does it hurt the PvP players?

Because those who only PvE will still need thousands of SS for upgrades, transformation stones, gem transmutation, element transmutation, jewel transmutation and what not.

What that 70 soulstones will do is that they will give PvE players a goal to achieve.

 

Just for the record, I am not a strictly PvE player. I do SSP and Misty woods almost every day. But, I will admit that I enjoy PvE much more than the zerg rush that goes on in SSP.

 

Also, I saw people suggest that PvE players make enough gold to buy SS from Auction House.

If that is the case, then, NCSoft should not have given PvP players a way to get Skillbooks from PvP. Because by selling SS, you guys make enough gold to buy the skillbook from market.

 

It just seems that NA/EU people are just jealous of others because they would have a little better time playing the game if SS are added to PvE.

[Xiegfried]

1) If you saw the price of hongmoon skills for zen beans, it's better for PvP Players to sell soulstones to buy them instead of wasting their zen beans. So that new features gonna be useless and only people who can't get the certificate to get their soulstone gonna use it.

2) Arena Dailies gives zen beans, takes no time to do and many people just afk there. Do them 2 days and you get free soulstone pouch for doing nothing.

3) PvP Players still have to do PVE to get the dragon certificate and if your alts don't have enought AP than you can dream to get your soulstones.

4) Only income for PvP Players are soulstones. So if you want to reduce PvP players income by giving more soulstones to PVE Players look at n°1.

 

In the end PvP Players have to do PVE while for PVE Players, PvP is just an option.

[Syanonn]

Although it is a really carebear attitude, to completely avoid PvP in this game that is a pvp e-sport, I can sympathize with the OP wanting to have soulstones in PvE only content.

Only because SSP is being overran by teleporting hackers and bots. They get all the meteorites and injured soldiers then some even come at you with grenade launchers and machineguns.

Add: There's even a destroyer on my server that will drag you towards their terrors if you dare to go on their side to kill the 8 elites for daily.

 

I also wish there is another way to get training certificates without having to pray that I actually get actual players rather than 3 infinite resist/sunflower/stealth summoner bots in a row (shit tons in gold rank right now) or having 2 afks on my team in 3's for daily quests.

[Shukran]

as me, you are not forced to do PVP in the soulstones dailies.

if u believe that the one quest : kill 10 opposite faction, is the only quest available for soulstones, well, u are wrong.

 

so:

- collect barrels and boxes: pve

- free villagers : pve

- collect soulstones and soulstones: pve

- kill base miniboss + kill faction soldiers: pve

- kill terrors and ogdonnies and boars: pve

- kill drills while other faction is winning: pve

 

- kill 10 opposite faction players: pvp

 

 

impressive. right?

[NN13]

2 hours ago, Xiegfried said:

1) If you saw the price of hongmoon skills for zen beans, it's better for PvP Players to sell soulstones to buy them instead of wasting their zen beans. So that new features gonna be useless and only people who can't get the certificate to get their soulstone gonna use it.

2) Arena Dailies gives zen beans, takes no time to do and many people just afk there. Do them 2 days and you get free soulstone pouch for doing nothing.

3) PvP Players still have to do PVE to get the dragon certificate and if your alts don't have enought AP than you can dream to get your soulstones.

4) Only income for PvP Players are soulstones. So if you want to reduce PvP players income by giving more soulstones to PVE Players look at n°1.

 

In the end PvP Players have to do PVE while for PVE Players, PvP is just an option.

1). So, some people are gonna use it. I would say that then it is working as intended. Using the option or not using it is entire upto the player.

2). 600 Zenbeans a day, afaik. That is 3 days and a little farming for a maximum of 50 soulstones, that too if you are high ranking arena player. Someone who afks in arena won't even hit gold. Lets just assume the player is gold, so gets 30 soulstones in 3 days. Upgrading from Awakened Siren Ring to True Siren Ring takes 70 soulstones. Totally feasible.

3). The ones who can do the heroic dungeons for dragon certificate will sell other things for gold, because as of now, it is much more profitable.

4). Correction - Only income of Arena players are soulstones. People who take OWPvP seriously do not rely of Soulstone Pouch from Zen Bean Trader.

 

Again correction - In the end, PvP players have to PvE once to level and once a day to get Dragon certificate(which, imo, is not ok and dragon certificates should not be in heroic dungeons), while PvE players needs to grind days after days to upgrade their weapon once, either by collecting gold to purchase SS or to grind for SS.

38 minutes ago, Shukran said:

 

so:

- collect barrels and boxes: pve

- free villagers : pve

- collect soulstones and soulstones: pve

- kill base miniboss + kill faction soldiers: pve

- kill terrors and ogdonnies and boars: pve

- kill drills while other faction is winning: pve

 

-

Can you guarantee me that while doing the above said "PvE" missions, another player won't kill me?

No, right?

Then how is it PvE?

[DomiSotto]

You are actually all set. Once your gear catches up, you will be able to destroy anything that breathes your way in the OW PvP, because it is not really PvP, as the dungeon gear always wins. As soon as you will be able to gear up enough to do SSP dailies, you will be pulling 70 ss per night, that's tons.

 

The only way PvP arena player can even hope to stay in the game is if the zen beans buy a separate gear progression path.

 

You are managing to play the game in the best possible way, so really, you have no cause to try to take away from the arena guys the only thing they have, and it is pretty measly compared to the PvE people.

Quote

 

I agree with you on most of what you said.  My friends and I do do the dungeons although we do them as cross server as we are currently only have  4 until the other 2 catch up to us.  We currently can't do most of the silverfrost events as we cannot produce the damage necessary to get rewarded for effort. 

[Syanonn]

In OWPvP, hackers win. Gear all you want, 2 grenade shots you're dead and you can barely target those speed hackers.

[Shukran]

2 hours ago, NN13 said:

1). So, some people are gonna use it. I would say that then it is working as intended. Using the option or not using it is entire upto the player.

2). 600 Zenbeans a day, afaik. That is 3 days and a little farming for a maximum of 50 soulstones, that too if you are high ranking arena player. Someone who afks in arena won't even hit gold. Lets just assume the player is gold, so gets 30 soulstones in 3 days. Upgrading from Awakened Siren Ring to True Siren Ring takes 70 soulstones. Totally feasible.

3). The ones who can do the heroic dungeons for dragon certificate will sell other things for gold, because as of now, it is much more profitable.

4). Correction - Only income of Arena players are soulstones. People who take OWPvP seriously do not rely of Soulstone Pouch from Zen Bean Trader.

 

Again correction - In the end, PvP players have to PvE once to level and once a day to get Dragon certificate(which, imo, is not ok and dragon certificates should not be in heroic dungeons), while PvE players needs to grind days after days to upgrade their weapon once, either by collecting gold to purchase SS or to grind for SS.

Can you guarantee me that while doing the above said "PvE" missions, another player won't kill me?

No, right?

Then how is it PvE?

collateral effect. 

you can choose to die

to fight

to escape

to change ch 

to group up to scary opponents

 

to not do those dailies.

 

but you are mirrorclimbing

[Dru Lockheart]

I entirely agree with the OP and woul love to see such changes done to BnS PvE.

[DomiSotto]

1 hour ago, Syanonn said:

In OWPvP, hackers win. Gear all you want, 2 grenade shots you're dead and you can barely target those speed hackers.

This is not however the same issue as distributing the materials necessary for gear advancement between the different play modes. Initial game design favored a multifaceted player that has plenty of time and does it all and a lot of it, with a lion's share of everything being locked behind the PvE by the simple reason is that where the most content is regenerated and where most folks are retained.

 

Given the problems and systematically unfair design we face with the OW PvP areas, I would say that making them PvE only is Okay, IF....

 

The rewards for Arena PvP participation were buffed up as well and allowed to parallel PvE.

 

In Arenas, you are still playing a Russian Roulette against the cheaters, but at the very least you always get at least a minimal reward, no matter your gear level, and, just like in a dungeon you can (if you wish) control your team comp by either entering solo or with 2 friends. It is an instanced area, just like the dungeons.

 

IF the Arena PvP gets better drops, then the OW PvP areas can become the PvE only questing areas with soulstone drops.

 

But, to even the playing field, it would be nice if one could gear up to a couple tiers below the current PvE max via PvP Arenas, by, say adding higher number of arena plays/wins Daily boxes to contain the relevant weapons and mats as well as the soulstones, allowing an undergeared player to catch up without finding a clan and a group and not doing the dungeons if they'd rather PvP instead. (and by golly, no Small Dragons for gods' sake)

 

 

[NN13]

22 minutes ago, Shukran said:

collateral effect. 

you can choose to die

to fight

to escape

to change ch 

to group up to scary opponents

 

to not do those dailies.

 

but you are mirrorclimbing

Umm, what?

Now sure which portion you were replying to.....

[Shukran]

57 minutes ago, NN13 said:

Umm, what?

Now sure which portion you were replying to.....

MAYBE i was replying to the part u quoted me about?

 

or maybe u could just understand it yourself?

 

np

[NN13]

1 minute ago, Shukran said:

MAYBE i was replying to the part u quoted me about?

 

or maybe u could just understand it yourself?

 

np

MAYBE delete the extra text next time.

 

np