Jump to content

State of Angler's Watch, how OWPvP is broken.


Theodore Velvet

Recommended Posts

I want to share the story of the server's current state, as to me, it is showing what all is wrong with the current state of the OWPvP game, and is driving people out, myself included.


 

So, first a preface of the state of affairs before the whole thing went south: Angler's Watch is on the smaller side, I have not seen more than 4 channels in OWPvP zones open at any time, and it is a heavily Crimson side based server, easily at least twice the side of Cerulean. As for the factions, this tale starts 2 big Crimson clans, and 2 Cerulean. On the crimson side, 1 big clan pretty much effectively influences the entire sides actions, with the other clan being a bunch of rogues. On the cerulean side, out of sheer necessity, the 2 clans had allied together, but little influence could be had on the remaining small cerulean base besides that.


 

I, as the narrator, was the advisor to one of the 2 Cerulean clans, and while knowledgeable of the situation, most of the times not involved in any negotiation. As a result, there might be inaccuracies in some facts, and as I am Cerulean, I can only say what I have read and seen in region chat and relayed through whispers, there might be more going on on Crimson that i could not know.


 

It all starts with Blackwyrm, pre lv 50 patch. Crimson could do it as they pleased, but if Cerulean got organized, we could contest and negate the attempt. This went on and on, until the big crimson clan got tired of the situation and negotiated a treaty, a channel split so both sides would benefit. The second Crimson clan ofc was rogue and didnt exactly agree, but they were unorganized and easily stamped out if they tried.


 

This was all fine and dandy.... until Soulstone Plains happened. During the time lapse, Crimson gained a 3rd big clan, which was independant yet not rogue, and in cerulean some smaller clans were starting to blossom. The truce held fairly well for a bit, and the new clan initially adhered as well.... then things started to go sour.

Soulstone plains being such a huge source of materials needed to progess, unavailable in such quantity elsewhere, was bound to attract problems.


 

The new Crimson clan, out of misinformation, started to break the truces. In the end it was just a misunderstanding, resulting of language barriers, but it put big strain on both sides, and put some people on edge. The uneasiness grew. The weapons and the assasin cloths started to appear more commonly, straining relations further overall due to the griefing they cause without being able to punish the culprit back.


 

Then one day, it snapped. Supposedly some cloth users , supposedly from the big cerulean clan that wasn't mine, had interrupted the main Crimson clan's blackwyrm, and a war started between them. Our clan was trying to mend relationships but it was not working, neither side was willing.... and we were being denied plains as collateral damage, slowing our progress and making people unhappy.


 

Then, a couple days later, the worst happened. Some key people started leaving, tired of the situation, Crimson gained momentum as a result of auto-balancing being so utterly broken due to bot influence, and the leader of the big clan decided to monopolize plains. Suddenly, they purposedly denied any cerulean faciton activity, they intended to fully erradicate cerulean, even those who had collaborated in the past, they wanted no griefing to ever be possible, no matter what cost to anyone else. Textbook bullying if I may add, but "fully acceptable" as per the games OWPvP mechanisms.


 

As faction events are essential to gather some materials to progress, the situation grew out of control. Suddenly we had no way of doing plains or blackwyrm, denied of the main sources of soulstones and only moonstone source. And it broke people. My leader and some friends swapped in order to regain access (Once again, thanks to balancing being broken), they forfeited the guild they worked so hard to level for months (Lv 13 at this point), to be able to access the content otherwise blocked off. And the sides imbalance even further...


 

So now, as a result, ceruleans only have 3 choices: Stay, and be barred of the content, having to pay the price. Change, and lose any progress faction and guild wise. Or just quit the game alltogether. Because of the broken systems, and the exploitability of it, a section of the server is backed into a corner with little chance to fight. This is not fun, this is bullying, in a game.


 

How did it come to this? The whole OWPvP system being badly designed is how. Bots and broken faction balancing allowing for some extreme imbalance. Being anonymous and griefing being allowed and even encouraged, instead of competition and cooperation led to this toxic enviroment, and making all of this far from optional to progress just puts the nail in the coffin.


 

And the result.... is a server whose days may be very well counted if the situation cannot be reversed. People want to play the game, but we are forced away from it, forced to abide by rules written by someone who happened to amass people and decided to just enrich himself at the cost of others, and can freely do so because of how OWPvP is built, and how stupidly important it is for progress.


 

And that, is the current state of affairs in Angler's watch in a nutshell. The server has become heavily 1 sided, and a lot of damage and loss was dealt. OWPvP is not fun, but flatout torture, yet without it, progress is a nightmare.


 

In a personal note: I currently attempted to quit, I could not stand losing the progress, I could not stand seeing my 3 year friend being forced to give in and lose all he built, I could not stand giving in either. I fell into tears. I want to play the game and enjoy it, but now just logging in causes pain to me, helplessness, despair, seeing all we worked for fall appart. It brings memories of when I was bullied in school, and I cannot do anything... Yet I cannot let go either, I have tried moving on to little avail. My only hope, is in that raising awareness of the issue, the underlying system issues can be solved, and balance restored before it is irrevocably destroyed. Or at least, that pouring my heart out at least lets me move on.


 

.... And to the leader in Crimson. You know who you are. For a lack of better choice words, as some granny would say, **** you... but feel free to add your side of the story, the more info, the better insight and more likely to be able to fix the system.

 

 

And for the lazy:
TL:DR

Enemy faction at least 3 times the size, actively denies faction events which are so vital to advance, cannot fight back due to OWPvP system being broken between bots and griefing being promoted.

People losing progress and switching, or quitting as they cannot progress adequately.

I am a complete sentimental wreck cause im weaksauce.

Angler's Watch people reading this pls add your stories to get a complete picture.

NCsoft pls fix this completely stupid OWPvP system.

 

PS EDIT: Will keep the above post verbatim as a testament to my mistake. This post is meant to showcase how the system is broken, by using the state of the server as an example. BY NO MEANS IS THIS AN ATTACK ON THE CRIMSON SIDE. They just acted according to the system, and while I do not agree with the course of action, that is not the focus of this post. I apologize for this misunderstanding.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all, I have no clue what is the point of an "alliance" between same faction clans. Were you warring eachother before? Anyway, the few crimsons that are on our server do it like this: buy a prestige charm, take bazooka, shoot enemy, get 100+ prestige points in 1 shot......profit.

The rest of the options you have already mentioned in your topic (change faction, quit, cry, quit &cry,etc.)

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Theodore.


You're missing several details, so I first intended to give you a huge wall-of-text full of facts and untold truths, but... who cares? It is how it is. We won, you lost, and it's not like I was given the choice to spare the Cerulean faction considering their latest decision to break the agreement anyway. Especially when they went as far as to resort to some underhanded methods to fight us. In vain I might add. 

 

The system is wrong, we get that. The bots are an issue, to everyone. But at this point, blaming the system, or worse, me, is just you being a sore looser. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have done this post if you had been on the winning side. 

 

Now, is it a bad thing? Think about it. Is OWPvP even interesting ? Balanced ? Enjoyable ? 
My opinion: No. And things get even worse when it comes to SSP. 

 

Since you're playing FM, you might not fully understand the current state of SSP, so let me try to explain it. Right now, even without any players on the opposite faction, SSP is a pain in the ass. Add some lone wolves with rifles killing an entire melee party with absolutely 0 skill involved. Just to hide behind some absolutely overpowered bosses with 27M HPs... that's enough to make most people rage-quit. Now add a bunch of organized players with rifles and shit like that. Are you starting to get the picture now? 

 

Looking back at my own experience on MMOs, I think I can safely affirm that SSP is the most frustrating PvP/PvE content I've ever seen. And also the shittiest. What are the solutions to "have fun" in such a place? I could only think of two :

- Having an agreement between the two factions.

- Annihilating one faction.

It could have gone the other way and some poor Crimson would now be in your shoes complaining about the current state of affairs. But it's not. As stated before: We won, you lost. That is a fact and I could go on and on about that, but I won't. Because I won't beat someone who is already down

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what factions are all about, war.

Crimsons and clans aren't the ones to be blamed for, if you're in a faction and also in a clan, fight for the things that you want. Don't back away and then cry about it on a thread.

One of the clans that you mentioned which I am in the clan, surely is a lot more organized than yours, seeing as your clan and also the other one is breaking apart. If you're a clan leader then you're supposed to think strategically. 

Since the agreement has been disbanded, we fight once again. We don't leave clans even if you lose, we stand up for each-other and fight again. If your clan members leave to Crimson, is either because of greed or boredom because they can't possible win anything, but yet again, it's not our fault, it's just how the game works.

 

The system is fine as it is, but the people that leave their clans because they simply can't do anything without fighting, that's what wrong.

Crimson's and Cerulean's were made for a reason, to fight, not to cry on threads. Just pointless to do so.

Let me give you an example, the clan ''Wyrmsbane''. Where did it go? Since the clan leader of it disappeared (Won't say why) they all left to another clan, simply because those are the type of greedy people, they don't fight for one another, they only look for profit.

It's the communities problem in this whole thing, not the games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know what's really funny is members of one of those crimson clans actively asked a clan leader to stop one person pvping them because this one person was killing their tanks at BW and killing crimsons on SSP taking all there PPoints.

 

They went to this persons clan leader and said this person is stopping our progress and disrupting us, these same people who wanted to attack said person daily even when they were in one of these clan who was a part of this so called alliance...they wanted a server on which they the crimsons could do as they liked and not have some one fighting back. 

 

Crimsons first offered to stop fight because they couldn't get BW kills as often as they wanted due to cerul players killing them and making it a hour long fight for just one kill. The games faction selection is totally *cricket*ed when one faction is full the other gets flooded with bots which then lets people switch until it's locked out again and so the circle jerk continues. 

 

What's funny is some people actually think have a 3 or 5 to 1 advantage makes them good at pvping. Player greed is what has driven this server to the state it is in nothing more nothing less, people started to move over because they wanted to be a part of the 3:1 numbers advantage just to farm faction dailies ect. 

 

Some really nasty hypocrites over on crimson side who like to think they didn't grief and stuff at BW like those summoners from scarlet phalanx who didn't wear faction uniforms and would send cat's vs BW every time cerul did it ...then moaned and cried bloody murder on the forums when we went and pvped the crimsons doing BW. 

 

I've seen a single player go in and kill crimsons tank at BW over and over until said tank took off their faction uniform just to stop themselves being attacked then go on the forums and cry about being pvped.  Of course they claim it never happened and no one ever dared to attack them ect ect. 

 

Talking of underhanded stuff how about trying to get cerulians thrown out of clans because crimsons don't like them because they killed them in pvp to much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Sen,

 

First of all, thank you for taking you time to post your views, this was exactly what I was hoping for when I wrote this post. I know how much you care about this type of content after all. So, lemme answer your points one by one.

2 hours ago, SenLingqi said:

You're missing several details, so I first intended to give you a huge wall-of-text full of facts and untold truths, but... who cares? It is how it is. We won, you lost, and it's not like I was given the choice to spare the Cerulean faction considering their latest decision to break the agreement anyway. Especially when they went as far as to resort to some underhanded methods to fight us. In vain I might add. 
 

I can't help but feel like you are generalizing here. I am aware some might have broken the truce, with cloths, and I am totally for punishing them, but you punished everyone, even those who abided by the truce at all points. For clarification, I was advisor of Shaolin Tibbers.... now actual leader.

 

2 hours ago, SenLingqi said:

The system is wrong, we get that. The bots are an issue, to everyone. But at this point, blaming the system, or worse, me, is just you being a sore looser. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have done this post if you had been on the winning side.

I will not hide the fact that I resent you, that would be hypocrital from my part, but the system is what I have a major beef with... and that's why I am here, to complain about said system.

However, you also have a point, would I have written this post if I was the winning side? Probably not. It is when you are backed into a corner that you start searching for flaws.

2 hours ago, SenLingqi said:

it a bad thing? Think about it. Is OWPvP even interesting ? Balanced ? Enjoyable ? 

My opinion: No. And things get even worse when it comes to SSP.

Which is why I wrote this. If the system is not enjoyable and balanced, it is broken and needs fixing.

 

2 hours ago, SenLingqi said:

nce you're playing FM, you might not fully understand the current state of SSP, so let me try to explain it. Right now, even without any players on the opposite faction, SSP is a pain in the ass. Add some lone wolves with rifles killing an entire melee party with absolutely 0 skill involved. Just to hide behind some absolutely overpowered bosses with 27M HPs... that's enough to make most people rage-quit. Now add a bunch of organized players with rifles and shit like that. Are you starting to get the picture now?

I am well aware of that, and agree completely. SSP is poorly designed, especially against melee classes (The irony considering it is BLADE and soul...), and also rewards griefers too much. I am just as much against them as you are, if not more considering the situation. I have always advocated for banning the cloths and weapons, people should not be able to grief and get away with it without taking responsability.

 

2 hours ago, SenLingqi said:

Looking back at my own experience on MMOs, I think I can safely affirm that SSP is the most frustrating PvP/PvE content I've ever seen. And also the shittiest. What are the solutions to "have fun" in such a place? I could only think of two :

- Having an agreement between the two factions.

- Annihilating one faction.
 

Again, good point. SSP is so important to progress, yet it is frustrating to everyone involved and causing toxicity. Causing people to contemplate stomping over whole factions just to stamp out a couple of griefers, which is why I am raising my voice to change things, it shouldn't have to come this far.

 

So after that, here's what i got to say:

I thought giving the whole server context would help bring the points up, but I was wrong in that regard. The focus of this post was mostly on the system, but the way i wrote it, it lead to be misinterpreted as an attack to the enemy faction or just loser's whine, I apologize and take full responsability... writing stuff like this when your emotional is a terrible idea. At least the other goal was met, writing that text wall actually made me recompose myself.

 

So, I am glad that at least we are on the same page, mostly, that the system is broken... even tho our reasons are mostly different because of being on different sides. This, is what I wanted to confirm with this, that it isn't just a 1 sided issue.

Now that I got my shit together again, I will say this again. I will never deny my resentment, but I am still willing to lend my hand. SSP is painful and broken as is, we don't need to make it harder than it is for anyone, regardless what side they are.

 

Also a quick answer to cupcake:

The point of factions is to have competition, sure. But that's not what this current system actually does. The current system promotes griefing, underhand tactics and selfish greed. You say the community is at fault, but the main reason for that is because the system is promoting this behavior. There are no reasons not to act greedy and selfishly, in fact, Sen is a pretty good example of being punished for trying to cooperate. He wanted to have a truce, but 2-3 individuals is all it takes to break all that goodwill. The system should not allow that to happen with 0 punishment. It should encourage an actual faction fight, not this anonymous crap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Theodore.

 

It is not the result of 2-3 individuals. The leader of the Nordic Templars, after having talked about it to his members, decided to break the agreement.  As a result, I decided to maintain the agreement with only Shaolin Tibbers, until they decided to join the Nordic Templars in their war, for the sake of "having some OWPvP".

 

You, the two biggest Cerulean clans, made this choice. Just like I made the choice to have an agreement with you in the first place, instead of destroying you. The system wasn't forcing you to make this decision. It's quite the opposite actually. If you had honored this agreement, you could have had both OWPvP with random Crimsons, and actual faction rewards at SSP/BW from us not being in your way.

 

Anyway. SSP won't change. We'll have better gear to face this harsh place, but that's it. It'll never be suited for faction wars. Besides, I'm not planning on giving Cerulean another chance to exploit my goodwill again.

You may resent me, and I am understanding your reasons for this, but if you or any of your clanmates ever grow tired of playing the game like this, know that I'd be more than happy to have you in my clan. You hit me as a good and rational person, and it takes serious balls to apologize like you did in your last post. That is about as good as I can make an offer for the recent faction conflict. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had to log in just to reply to you. I thought you would like to read my experience as a leader of a solid lineage 2 clan.

Firstly, pvp will never be balanced, in every MMO. People will always run to the zerg side, because everything is easier with zerg. It is not your fault or your responsability, so don't feel bad about it. If a person is leaving your clan for some more daily soulstones. He would leave you sooner or later. A guild is a guild, not a soulstone bank.

 

Secondly, it's a game, you will never lose unless you tell yourself to lose. Even if you fail, sometimes, there is nothing to worry about. There are plenty of dungeon that you can farm with friends while waiting for the enemy to drop their guard to strike again. It's not like they can come to your house and burn you down.

You have much less people, so what? You just need to play smarter and more tactically: Grab some friend, fuk up their mining, hunt them down in misty... There are many options to choose from. You do not have to fight 5 vs 40 all the time. Being the underdogs also gives you some advantage: easier organisation, flexibility and mobility. Choose your battle wisely and make them mad. They won't go as 40 men pack 24/7, will they?


In the contrary, fighting as the underdog side shows you who your true friends are. It's the base for a solid clan. Those who stand by you in hard time, you can fully trust them. Give them faith and they will follow your lead, even beyond the end of BnS.

 

Faction is a fast way, but not the only way to progress. And even if you are slower, everyone will reach end game gear sooner or later. Do not let it hold you down from enjoying the game.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...