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KFM v sin


totokii

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I'm just a trashcan KFM and usually go 1v1s n tag for practice, but I find that I perma invis asassins are a major encumbrance. Ofc we don't have a spin or a long lasting dot to keep them out of their invisibility and the things we do have are iffy. Atleast I have trouble with using them. They can evade leg sweep and if you don't time it super right, they can waste your Ice tab. So, between not being able to hit them and their stun locks, my exp with fighting sins is always bad.  What do you other kfms do to cc down sins? :T 

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Personally, i find a Sin vs KFM (me) to be very one sided, maybe its based on getting lucky with a sweep or they *cricket*ing up 2 escapes and even if you beat em 1 games, they will stay in stealth and far away the next one and poke out when their cooldowns are up and not take any chances, added to that i play 50% of my games against assasins last season made it a pretty crappy experience.

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Since the last skill update this match-up punishes the KFM much more severely for mistakes than before, although winning does not seem to work much differently to before:

 

Don't waste your TAB too early, iframe or ice-guard-wait-out the flash and do not let them bait your CCs. But I think every KFM on any rank is feeling the pressure from assassins more these days. It's just the balance. Sins had a tough time before, now maybe a bit too easy - the next balancing will tell. ;)

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1 hour ago, Shuchin said:

Since the last skill update this match-up punishes the KFM much more severely for mistakes than before, although winning does not seem to work much differently to before:

 

Don't waste your TAB too early, iframe or ice-guard-wait-out the flash and do not let them bait your CCs. But I think every KFM on any rank is feeling the pressure from assassins more these days. It's just the balance. Sins had a tough time before, now maybe a bit too easy - the next balancing will tell. ;)

Don't tab, iframe or iceguard, don't cc. So, what's left? Auto attacking? :T And I don't mean to come at you or anything, but it's a shame. I know they can be beaten, but I don't think it should be such a chore. Like you say, the balance is -way- off and that bugs me alot :v
You can either save up everything and be a sitting duck, or use up everything and be a sitting duck. You figure, a smart assassin isn't going to burn their escapes. Then there's the perma invis thing, in general, that's just a bit much BUT, I don't know how to practice against them if I can never hit them. I've beaten bad assassins, but does this mean sins that know what they're doing can't be beaten?

 

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KFM easily can 100-0, well so you know there are a few other classes that can as well. Unlike those other classes KFM only has one break. Reason why you see quite a bit of kfms on boards is because they are one of the more balanced classes. Meaning we have more evenly matches games vs most classes with assassin being the one exception. Because of this assassins take advantage of this and climb ladder fairly easily. And incase you didn't know sin is one of the classes that can 100-0 fairly easily as well.

2 hours ago, PCComet said:

i say let it stay like that, KFM can easily 100-0 a lot of the other classes if played right. every classes needs to have at least one to counter it, sin is just your class

 

The point of the game is to make it as balanced as possible. I understand that's not easy to do but saying allow sins to easily dominate kfm is just stupid. I do think other classes need improvements on some of their match ups to make the match more balanced. Like specific abilities for specific classes that can kind of counter what the other does hence making it even/fair. For example kfm vs summoner is fairly well balanced because anything the kfm can do the summoner has something to mitigate it's effect. That;s how match ups should be. Including the assassin vs kfm one.

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The problem with sins is that their abilities are never broadcasted to allow counter play. Destros and bd don't need to worry about that since they just have to spin. That's why they counter sins so hard. Kinda Silly that mindlessly spinning counters a class that requires thinking. But i agree, Sin vs KFM is way too one sided. 

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15 hours ago, Livid Elements said:

The point of the game is to make it as balanced as possible. I understand that's not easy to do but saying allow sins to easily dominate kfm is just stupid. I do think other classes need improvements on some of their match ups to make the match more balanced. Like specific abilities for specific classes that can kind of counter what the other does hence making it even/fair. For example kfm vs summoner is fairly well balanced because anything the kfm can do the summoner has something to mitigate it's effect. That;s how match ups should be. Including the assassin vs kfm one.

well then it's the same with KFM vs FM. KFM completely dominates FM in a lot of different ways. Even if the FM plays it right, keeps freezes up, does stun lock right, KFM just spams block block block and get their resist up and after that, there go all FMs escapes and then boom stun lock.

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21 hours ago, PCComet said:

i say let it stay like that, KFM can easily 100-0 a lot of the other classes if played right. every classes needs to have at least one to counter it, sin is just your class

Every class can 100-0 and you can't 100-0 what you can't see or attack :v 


 

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19 hours ago, PCComet said:

well then it's the same with KFM vs FM. KFM completely dominates FM in a lot of different ways. Even if the FM plays it right, keeps freezes up, does stun lock right, KFM just spams block block block and get their resist up and after that, there go all FMs escapes and then boom stun lock.

I don't see how you can say that KFM vs FM is dominated by the KFM at all....FM's have freezes that mostly remove our gap closers (Flurry), freezes that roots you in place while you move around to our back to apply stuns, our block doesn't net us agility stacks...that comes from iframes (Q/E) and SS. Most FM's take advantage of jumping around to avoid our triple kick causing dsyncs over and over and have 2 escapes if specced.

 

Tell me again how we trash FM's? 

 

The only way to kill a FM is to maintain pressure at all times, one small mistake and you're dead...not counting with Ice Veil and that ice that makes them get HP back if they resist an attack.

 

Back to the subject of this thread, its not impossible but its quite difficult because its not a matter of you making less mistakes or none....its about them messing up or not. The perma stealth build is just stupid because we don't have any AOE abilities except Ice Guard and Tiger Strike when specced for fire (wasting focus)...i dont count elbow smash as an "aoe" although it can remove them from stealth if they get too close which wont happen most of the times.

 

I can kill sin's more now with some practice than i could earlier but if you get a good sin...its almost gg cause the initial burst can get you to 50% or less without we even touching them...too much utility, evades, knockdowns, stuns its possible but it depends on the sin instead of us.

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Yo sin here xd

Ok about perma stealth ur saying well sorry but ur wrong sin vs kfm is about stunlocks.

I go to match with 3 stun n 1 stun prolonger so all the combo is out of stealth.

Example the tab swap combo with aerial followed by ground combo is out of stealth right? Xd

I think sin vs kfm sin vs bm are cleanest match currently n its about who gonna blow tab 1st.

Kfm can easy 100:0 sin if tab out.

So its a mind game.

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48 minutes ago, azraelkun said:

Yo sin here xd

Ok about perma stealth ur saying well sorry but ur wrong sin vs kfm is about stunlocks.

I go to match with 3 stun n 1 stun prolonger so all the combo is out of stealth.

Example the tab swap combo with aerial followed by ground combo is out of stealth right? Xd

I think sin vs kfm sin vs bm are cleanest match currently n its about who gonna blow tab 1st.

Kfm can easy 100:0 sin if tab out.

So its a mind game.

So you're saying that its about stunlocks and you're out of stealth while you do it...the whole point of the stunlock combo is exactly that...maintain the enemy in a permanent stun without being able to react (unless he/she tabs) and if by any chance we tab you got another stun ready or swap or go stealth and wait for cd's.

 

Saying Sin vs KFM is the cleanest match is just dumb and you are either bad or you make alot of mistakes, even though its not 100% one-sided its mostly in favor of the Sin i would say 90-10. Having stealth is already an advantage, add up like you said 3 stuns....plus one to add more time to the stun, a swap that dazes, dagger that makes you teleport behind a target instantly for a stun, a trinket that blinds, web's, ice bomb's, smoke bombs, decoys...and dont forget about the evades.....want to stunlock in stealth also?

 

Level a KFM and go fight a good sin, you'll get our point.

 

Almost every class can be 100-0 by a KFM if that player blows his tab/trinket...except Destro's running blue and FM's.

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7 minutes ago, osirium said:

So you're saying that its about stunlocks and you're out of stealth while you do it...the whole point of the stunlock combo is exactly that...maintain the enemy in a permanent stun without being able to react (unless he/she tabs) and if by any chance we tab you got another stun ready or swap or go stealth and wait for cd's.

 

Saying Sin vs KFM is the cleanest match is just dumb and you are either bad or you make alot of mistakes, even though its not 100% one-sided its mostly in favor of the Sin i would say 90-10. Having stealth is already an advantage, add up like you said 3 stuns....plus one to add more time to the stun, a swap that dazes, dagger that makes you teleport behind a target instantly for a stun, a trinket that blinds, web's, ice bomb's, smoke bombs, decoys...and dont forget about the evades.....want to stunlock in stealth also?

 

Level a KFM and go fight a good sin, you'll get our point.

 

Almost every class can be 100-0 by a KFM if that player blows his tab/trinket...except Destro's running blue and FM's.

Well o heard some good kfms saying vs sin is easy match up.

So it realy depends on the player n playstyle

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It actually depends on the Sin and pretty much all the good KFM's (Shiro, Mosh, Radeyz, Eazee, etc) will say the same thing...its not a balanced matchup period.

 

If the sin messes up we have a chance to win, otherwise not so much its a fact :)

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The offensive HM block kfms get is actually surprisingly good. I didn´t know that before, but it actually seems like we cannot decoy the projectile after tab switching at all (although i´m not 100% sure about this part, because i didn´t test it somewhen later and i could have just lagged too much at that day to pull it off. can someone confirm that?). And also if you block like a shuriken when we´re stealthed it will pull us out of stealth, witch i also was not aware of.

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1 hour ago, N3ro said:

The offensive HM block kfms get is actually surprisingly good. I didn´t know that before, but it actually seems like we cannot decoy the projectile after tab switching at all (although i´m not 100% sure about this part, because i didn´t test it somewhen later and i could have just lagged too much at that day to pull it off. can someone confirm that?). And also if you block like a shuriken when we´re stealthed it will pull us out of stealth, witch i also was not aware of.

Elbow Smash like every other ability has 50% chance to hit you in stealth. So if you get unstealthed by it, consider yourself unlucky.

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even i as a summoner have issues with assassins being pussies stealthing all the time and using their lightning trick, if you think sums are bad because we can heal and have a cat for ccing a sin that stays in stealth all the time and wins a time out by doing the most dmg is worse, pure garbage class cant do anything other then hide takes no skill what so ever. 

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16 minutes ago, DarkSkyBunny said:

even i as a summoner have issues with assassins being pussies stealthing all the time and using their lightning trick, if you think sums are bad because we can heal and have a cat for ccing a sin that stays in stealth all the time and wins a time out by doing the most dmg is worse, pure garbage class cant do anything other then hide takes no skill what so ever. 

Ok now i'm literally lying on the floor laughing because a summoner says sin takes no skill? I'm dying... xD

If we wouldn't play with perma invisible it's like an AUTO-WIN for summoners because we literally can't do ANYTHING out of stealth against this tard class - anything!

 

 

About KFMs:

From an assassin point of view:

 

If you face one of this perma invisible shit sins then you face a player who has absolutely no clue how to play assassin. 

Sadly exactly those pile of shit assassins are very difficult to counter for a KFM and also for another >good< assassin (which plays the combo game out of stealth usually) because KFMs and assassins both lack the skills to get them out of stealth easily (spins for example) and they can just pve the shit out of us lol. 

 

The matchup SIN vs KFM is indeed favoring us assassins atm because it is very difficult to make an opener as a KFM vs a sin if he knows the kit of a KFM (and if he finds one we still have 2 escapes). 

 

For example the 3 hit strike can be easily countered with a HM woodblock PLUS I can punish you hard in the animation and stun you there. 

 

Then the backstep - kick can also be woodblocked. 

Backstep - jump can be Q'ed. 

Tripple kick stun can be avoided if you don't use woodblock or hit them while in melee range. 

Q and E to generate agility stacks can be avoided if you simply don't attack and backstep+E or lightning step away (mostly you get followed with a jump then which you can Q again). 

 

I understand the rant against sins for KFMs but actually KFMs has one of the least bad matchups. 

They have sins and maybe destroyers/BMs as bad matchups while we have FMs, summoners, BDs and also destroyers (if they are good). 

Or classes like FMs which gets shit on by BMs.

Spin classes are doing bad against Warlocks. 

etc. etc. 

 

Every class has bad matchups but KFMs are in a better place as assassins when it comes to bad matchups. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Shiune said:

Ok now i'm literally lying on the floor laughing because a summoner says sin takes no skill? I'm dying... xD

If we wouldn't play with perma invisible it's like an AUTO-WIN for summoners because we literally can't do ANYTHING out of stealth against this tard

 

thing is all sins do it to every class they take no skill, sums at least has to have skill to survive against a kfm, bm, bd, destro(if they dont spin towin) or fm. all an assassin has to do is stealth and win the match by playing like a *cricket* (stealthing all match using lightning attacks ect).

 

sorry to say but a sum is your anti class like a destro is mine, its just stupid that some sins play like a *cricket* and win a draw by default just because they were able to do the most dmg while running with their tail between their legs.

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24 minutes ago, DarkSkyBunny said:

thing is all sins do it to every class they take no skill, sums at least has to have skill to survive against a kfm, bm, bd, destro(if they dont spin towin) or fm. all an assassin has to do is stealth and win the match by playing like a *cricket* (stealthing all match using lightning attacks ect).

 

sorry to say but a sum is your anti class like a destro is mine, its just stupid that some sins play like a *cricket* and win a draw by default just because they were able to do the most dmg while running with their tail between their legs.

Do u realise that if ur cat grabs me i loose 75% hp plus what u want sins to do auto attack u ?

I like playing qith combos n not to rb f 4 but u sum dont leave me a choice but to go for a shitty pve build that i hate doin it in arena its not only u sum but also sin vs sin is shity pve they come with fight spirit x stealth to pve a fellow sin instead of playing with combos.

As i said i like ground combos not just rb f

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5 minutes ago, azraelkun said:

Do u realise that if ur cat grabs me i loose 75% hp plus what u want sins to do auto attack u ?

I like playing qith combos n not to rb f 4 but u sum dont leave me a choice but to go for a shitty pve build that i hate doin it in arena its not only u sum but also sin vs sin is shity pve they come with fight spirit x stealth to pve a fellow sin instead of playing with combos.

As i said i like ground combos not just rb f

and you think i can do anything against a destros spin to win? every class has their anti class, summoner is sin's just most ranked sins i play take the *cricket* way out and stealth fight rather then trying to do real combos. i understand that cat pounce is a bit op because of how long it pins if specd but still its annoying to fight a sin that just runs every time and wins with shitty tactics.

 

hell most kfms 100-0 me in a single stupid combo which no class should be able to do in any game destros do it too, spin>knockdown>ani cancel chain knockdown rip 39k hp. -_- this isnt SSFV for fuk sakes

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Believe me when i say i love to ground combo n not run arround till i find an open to dps n then run again but before we discover this tactic we were pvp sum n we always loose so ppl from slackers n vile came up with that pve build vs sum.

Believe me i dont want to get 1win in 7 mins n play like shit.

Even fms dont 100% let u pvp them cause ur frozen so i rb f a bit fms cause no choice

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