speed79

please read the truth about ncsoft

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Melodia   
4 hours ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

Name me MMO without bots and hacks, please.

Tera

Path of Exile, though not really a "massive" game

GW2 (yes there are bots but WAY less than this game, to a point they're not even a problem)

 

BnS is literally a 95% reskin of Tera. Every single feature is literally identical from the combat, endgame instance grind, down to the boring repetitive quest system. Why does that game have no bots? Did NCSoft ever think about it? I highly doubt it.

 

Next time when you defend this game, actually do some research? Want to know why those games don't have bot problems? Because their actually have a competent support team that CARES. They are actually WORKING everyday, banning bots, reporting to Korean devs, communicating with players, bringing patches. When was the last time NCSoft ever cared? In fact when was the last time NCSoft even bothered showing its presence on the forums to help with an issue? When was the last time NCSoft ever provided a non-retarded response to support tickets? When was the last time NCSoft even showed acknowledgment there is a huge problem with bots and bothered banning any of them??

 

Anyone who defends the state of this game is simply in denial, no doubts about it. Either they're in denial because they've sunk too much time or money into this game and refuse to believe this game is a wreck, or they've never played any good MMO's. If you don't show NCSoft pressure then they will never change, what's so hard to understand about that? They're a business and they survive on income, duh. If players band together and show that UNLESS YOU START CARING, you get no money, that's the only way they're even gonna try fixing all the problems.

 

Or? Everyone just go start botting because gameguard gives zero crickets about if you bot or not. Maybe when the game is 100% bots 0% players, NCSoft will care a little.

Edited by Melodia

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KaLnoX   

A 39 year old that wouldn't bother to spell GUARANTEE correctly, even with word error highlight. This thread is the brainchild of a troll.

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Sylvaen   
5 minutes ago, KaLnoX said:

A 39 year old that wouldn't bother to spell GUARANTEE correctly, even with word error highlight. This thread is the brainchild of a troll.

So is your post. Move along, nothing to see here.

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KaLnoX   
2 minutes ago, Sylvaen said:

So is your post. Move along, nothing to see here.

My post or the thread?

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Sylvaen   
14 minutes ago, KaLnoX said:

My post or the thread?

Now that you asked, I think the answer includes the whole BnS.

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Znick   

Is this the OP's first MMO in 15 years?

 

I see this SAME post for Archeage and every other company.

 

If you can make a better game company, do it.

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Sunmashi   

Hi, my name is Speed79.

Here I am going to tell you my age to and how long I have been gaming to validate why you should listen to me regardless of whether or not what i'm about to say is true or not.

"  unforuonatly you cant enjoy it on the NA or the EU serversdue to lack of support from the staff "
I've sent in three support tickets since i've played this game. 3/3 times they've responded within the next hour. Two tickets were to give my items back that I was being a moron and accidentally deleted them through inventory management. The third was asking a question regarding server transfers. They responded and answered my tickets accordingly and assisted me exactly how I imagined it'd go. So this is false.

" and the spread of cheats and bots. "
As an extension from the first quote you mention that there's cheat and bots. Hm. Well DUH! Any *cricket*ing game will have cheat and bots and people trying to exploit the shit out of your game. We have pirates for music, games, movies, shows and other shit. ANY *cricket*ing game will have someone trying to cheat the system and get away with something to give them the edge over players. You're just too narrow minded to accept this. You want them to be gone sooner? learn code and give NCsoft what they need to solve this issue. 

" so that's a pettion for any one who agree with me pls leave your name in a comment. lets make them panic for their jobs?!! "
What are you a Bernie Sanders cultist? Get the *cricket* out of here. Let's see you build a game and please everyone.

" thats the one i think i will be doing,completly leave the game and play on one of the other reagions i recommend (Korean). "
What are you, a quitter? I think so. The NA version hasn't even been out a year yet and you propose we give up now and go to someplace where it's more developed? You didn't even give it a year to bounce on it's feet.

" YOU DONT HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH THIS CRAP YOUR ARE A PAYING COUSTMER SO GET THE SERVICE YOU PAY FOR!! "
We pay for the content, not the people who wish to ruin the content. As far as I can tell we're getting content as it's being delivered. They're holding up their end. But however if they wish to keep us, they'll need to have some time to figure a for sure way to kill bots/cheats without getting innocent players involved.

Now aside from your horrible grammar and spelling. Aside from your preposterous solution plans. Everything you say is just that of a child who spent a whole whopping few penny's for a sugar cube and had it stolen from a raccoon. So now you're bitching that the store keep didn't take care of the raccoon. I will say this to ALL players. PLEASE look at this from a programmers perspective. PLEASE understand what they're trying to do. Why do you think some staff reply to anything in the forums because it's just a swarm of bees looking for answers and are angry but they can't please anyone cause nothing is ever good for the players. PLEASE look at some things they did right before you look at all the wrongs. 

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Sylvaen   
8 minutes ago, Znick said:

If you can make a better game company, do it.

Although I am not the OP, I'll accept your challenge under one condition.

I build a better game company that will deliver a better game free of bots, if you can secure funding for the company.

Do we have a deal?

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AttacKat   
5 hours ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

Name me MMO without bots and hacks, please.

Have been playing BDO for a few weeks now, if there is one, I surely cannot detect it since none is preventing me from gathering whatever they are or stealing from me.

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Cetra   

Regardless of how much sense any of you make in regards to how bad this game has been mis-managed and how bad the bot/hacking issue is, there will always be that small army of supreme douchebags that defends the game until the servers are taken down.  That low level lifeform mouth breather crowed that's more focused on leaving low effort replies focused on criticizing your grammar rather then processing the issues at hand.  Those who's logic is so twisted they're convinced that because some other games have or have had bots, that this somehow is the norm and justifies current game for having bots.

You can't reason with these individuals, they're the type that love being taken advantage of and thrive off ignorance and stupidity.  They surround themselves with other mouth breathing fedora knights and live in their dirty little circle jerk bubble patting each other on the back reassuring themselves that the game doesn't have problems.  Just do yourself a favor and get off the game and go play something worth your money.  Sooner or later regardless of how inept they are, it's only a matter of time before something doesn't go their way and they realize what garbage this game has become.  Let them rot here convincing themselves that the game is 'good' just like the kids that still play Wildstar who stand around wondering why nobody else plays.  "Can I haz your stuff"  Hurr Durr *drools on self*

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KaLnoX   

All mmo's have some form of botting so long as there is player demand on the black market for getting game currency/items. Good mmo publishers have mitigated the effect bots have, bad publishers have not and no publisher has eradicated them to date.

I too am sick of the bots somewhat but I'm most disgusted to no limit with the players that support them via buying their produce on the black market and some of them that do this and still turn around and complain about bots, idiots. If there is a demand for something there will be supply of it.

Getting mad at the publisher seems like the most logical thing to do, maybe it is idk, but I realized the people point fingers at are the black market gold buyers and the ones who write the bots. They are the ones that bring down good mmo titles solely for profit. At the end of the day it trickles down to the persons not willing to make the grind for gold and still not willing to use in game methods to purchase gold, they are the ones creating the demand thus fueling bots.


I've suggested  and alternative to mitigate botting issue, posted it more than once and here I go again;



 

Disable trading/bidding of gold inside of cross server. That way the gold sellers and buyers, who will still be desperate and cheap enough, will exchange in their server....selling items for exorbitant amounts of gold or massive gold gains in short space of time w/o evident effort = flagged, look into it, find the pattern, ban.

 

They dont catch the buyers and sellers because they go to cross server for their respective regions and fight until an item drops for bidding, the seller bids the amount of gold bought, the buyer passes on the bid and gets the gold when the timer runs down.

 

To get in the cross server they give you the dungeon party number, in world u just be lvl 15+...hit F8 and enter party number and you're in their party ready to go. I could have a character on one server and buy gold in the next server so long as its same region. Now imagine if someone makes a fall guy account in one server, buys gold in another server and moves the gold from the fall guy account onto their main account in yet ANOTHER server. How are you even going to trace 20 people doing this, among thousands of hypothetically legit players? You fcking cant.

 

Worse yet...how are you going to track down one account that moves gold from lets say seller>>fall guy>> fall guy>>main with all chars on different accounts and servers but same region? Add in 3 fall guys, now add 4....and we're still on that one person and seller doing this...multiply this by 10 buyers...now 20...smh.

 

Again I lobby for disabling bidding in cross server, force the sellers and desperate buyers to do business within one server so it easier to trace and recognize illegal gold transfer pattern and ban parties involved. If an item drops in cross server, it should RNG to determine who gets it regardless of who picks it up. Marketplace shares all servers within a region but its still waaay easier to trace sharp practices.

 

End result is not a eradication of bots but a huge mitigation of them, an increase in gold prices set by black market and a stabilization of legit prices on items. 
I mentioned this before in another thread which got buried.

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Sylvaen   

@Cetra - Succint yet eloquent. Alas, there is doubt in my mind whether or not shall those airballoons, of whom you so poignantly spoke, read your message and if, I wonder, shall their minuscule conscience be capable of comprehending the gist at least. Or whether they shall convey all the more of the lowly hatred and spew their bitter bile against your person, as your speech so accurately struck their talon d'Achille with grace and form that defies their ridicule.

Edited by Sylvaen

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Aethyr   

I can only say 1 thing.
You simply cannot get rid of bots that easily. I guess you have no idea how these things works. Gameguard is shit. Blade & Soul has been out for almost 5 years now. Still, Korean server is flooded by the same BOT they use here in NA. ;)

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Sylvaen   
5 minutes ago, Aethyr said:

I can only say 1 thing.
You simply cannot get rid of bots that easily. I guess you have no idea how these things works. Gameguard is shit. Blade & Soul has been out for almost 5 years now. Still, Korean server is flooded by the same BOT they use here in NA. ;)

All guessing aside, you are mistaken - at least I do know how they work. And that is also why I know they can only be identified by presenting them with challenges that a human can process but a program is not prepared to. And once they're identified, they can be transported to a "jail" and frozen until a GM arrives and can check them out and issue a ban on the account.

That  korean servers are flooded by the same bots is a sad fact. And yet, other games and publishers do not share the same plague of bots, which goes to prove my point that NCsoft do not have the know-how or do not care.

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KaLnoX   
54 minutes ago, Sylvaen said:

All guessing aside, you are mistaken - at least I do know how they work. And that is also why I know they can only be identified by presenting them with challenges that a human can process but a program is not prepared to. And once they're identified, they can be transported to a "jail" and frozen until a GM arrives and can check them out and issue a ban on the account.

That  korean servers are flooded by the same bots is a sad fact. And yet, other games and publishers do not share the same plague of bots, which goes to prove my point that NCsoft do not have the know-how or do not care.

The only way I see the fantasy of a bot free blade and soul is if they make it b2p or p2p. Its those two options or gtfo, there is no middle ground. 

Just curious, what are these challenges that a human can process but a program "isn't prepared to" ? And please don't say captcha or anything else resembling it. Please.

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Players are constantly giving feedback on this game. Also, we are giving ideas on how to improve the game or mitigate bots. I agree with @KaLnoX it's people who buy their gold that keeps bots on going. I also agree that NCSoft themselves can redesign their game to mitigate bots influence. IMO the game really does rely too much on grinding. Factor in the fact that things like weapon upgrades (which take a lot of materials to upgrade) don't give the feeling of satisfaction upon upgrade (at least it doesn't for me) is what basically keeps on disappointing people and make them buy this gold in the first place. My suggestion is either to model the upgrade in favor of materials or in favor of stats. This basically means either keep weapon stats the same but lower material costs for upgrade or keep material costs the same but increase the stat on weapon. The state this game currently is in, allows for immense upgrade costs but minimal changes in stats afterwards. At least for me, this makes me feel like I haven't achieved anything. I believe other people share the similar feeling as well.

 

Other thing, the gold is hard to come by. And before some douche comes in and says that it isn't, it is. Don't lie to yourselves. Games like WoW, even at their beginning had gold count much higher than BnS ever had. In games like WoW, you had to do something in order to have a lot of gold to buy most exclusive items but you always could have gold for necessary items. This is not the case in BnS. My suggestion is to restructure the profession system (as it's the most common way of earning money in the majority of MMOs) so that it becomes a viable source of earning money. As this system currently is, even the most viable combination (Merry Potters/Soul Wardens) is incapable of earning the amount of gold required by things in this game on a daily basis. Sorry but, not all people can sit in front of their PC for a whole day, every day. And a lot of people I know feel like they've missed on a lot if they don't come online every day to do their daily quests. Give us some way of earning that gold back then! Maybe then, people wouldn't despair about how they don't have gold for anything and maybe then those same people wouldn't consider making transactions on those third party sites.

 

The third thing is again aimed at combating bots directly. As someone already mentioned, remove (or at the very least, reduce by a large margin) the Attack Power stat from weapons with sole purpose of feeding your main weapon or serving as a breakthrough material. Another way to know a players is bot is to check their weapon. Bots don't have time for weapon upgrade and are using quest awards to do their things. By removing or significantly reducing the Attack Power on those weapons, you basically force them to upgrade their weapons or they won't be able to do anything of significance.

 

The fourth suggestion is, remove the GameGuard completely. Time and again, this software was proved to be outdated. Time and again, people complain about this software to ruin their gameplay. So I think the logical course of action would be to take the Game Guard off the grid and provide the people who play BnS with either a program or a step-by-step guide on how to remove the Game Guard completely from their machines (because it goes deep, so deep in fact, to reach your registry). And then never bring it up again. Instead, hire a team of people to write up a new hacking- and bot-prevention system for them, you know, like any company with even a bit of self-esteem does?

 

To that person who said we should look at this problem from programmers PoV, is this enough? Here I have given both programming solutions, as well as the psychological reasoning behind botting and hacking, which could be prevented had only but few of these steps be taken.

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KaLnoX   
Just now, Sylvaen said:

Of course you can't see any other solution except for those two (b2p/p2p). The problem is that you're limiting yourself to what you know about botting and anti-bot countermeasures.  In order to combat bots, you have to think outside the box. I have spelled out a few techniques out already, both in this topic and elsewhere on the forum, and I do not feel like writing it all over again. Use Search. 

You've managed to speak yet say nothing at the same time. #schrodingerlogic

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Sylvaen   
Just now, KaLnoX said:

The only way I see the fantasy of a bot free blade and soul is if they make it b2p or p2p. Its those two options or gtfo, there is no middle ground. 

Just curious, what are these challenges that a human can process but a program "isn't prepared to" ? And please don't say captcha or anything else resembling it. Please.

Of course you can't see any other solution except for those two (b2p/p2p). The problem is that you're limiting yourself to what you know about botting and anti-bot countermeasures.  In order to combat bots, you have to think outside the box. I have spelled out a few techniques out already, both in this topic and elsewhere on the forum, and I do not feel like writing it all over again. Use Search. 

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KaLnoX   
43 minutes ago, Sylvaen said:

- Moderated content -

-_- There is no answer to eradicate bots unless you go down the path of p2p/b2p. I cant even use those two terms because even in games like BDO there are bots, however little they are.

You cannot eradicate bots, as I've said more than 3 or 4 times now, other people in this forum know this but out of control bots is annoying and affecting the game play of some people, botting can be greatly mitigated by devs disabling/tweaking certain game mechanics, take for example a suggestion I made to make it easier to catch gold sellers. Where are your examples? You've got none, none that's feasible to say the least. 

Keep looking for the answer to the wrong question though, I'm sure you'll come up with something lol.

Edited by Ooneka
Moderated content

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Sylvaen   
1 minute ago, KaLnoX said:

-_- There is no answer to eradicate bots unless you go down the path of p2p/b2p. I cant even use those two terms because even in games like BDO there are bots, however little they are.

Not true. You're thinking of targeting their entry point (registration and login). But for a full-client bot (ie one that uses the game's client, performs image analysis and uses standard input methods to control the game), this is no roadblock at all. Instead of trying to do the impossible, you need to target weaknesses in their control logic in-game. Earlier in another topic, I have given an example of an alternatively scripted NPC that randomly spawns or takes a regular mob over. While it's a very simple thing for a human player to adapt, a program is incapable of such adaptation and will continue following its programming, attacking the mob. Once thus revealed, the bot can easily be transported to a "jail area" where windwalk and other means of escape are disabled, and permafrozen until GM can check out the character and account, and either release them, or issue a ban. 

And that is just one of many possible methods.

 

7 minutes ago, KaLnoX said:

You cannot eradicate bots,

Yes you can. Well, maybe not you, lol.

8 minutes ago, KaLnoX said:

Where are your examples? You've got none, none that's feasible to say the least. 

Search is your friend, young padawan. You must use the Search, hmmmmmm!

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KaLnoX   

Not true. You're thinking of targeting their entry point (registration and login). But for a full-client bot (ie one that uses the game's client, performs image analysis and uses standard input methods to control the game), this is no roadblock at all. Instead of trying to do the impossible, you need to target weaknesses in their control logic in-game. Earlier in another topic, I have given an example of an alternatively scripted NPC that randomly spawns or takes a regular mob over. While it's a very simple thing for a human player to adapt, a program is incapable of such adaptation and will continue following its programming, attacking the mob. Once thus revealed, the bot can easily be transported to a "jail area" where windwalk and other means of escape are disabled, and permafrozen until GM can check out the character and account, and either release them, or issue a ban. 

Lol, now I know for sure you're just bullshitting. This wont work and never will, the bots read the game's memory addresses and from this it knows the real time positions and state of variables in game. Don't even get me started on the bots that make use of a modified executable or capture network traffic. 

You have to change the game's mechanics to mitigate bots, like I said earlier.


And like I also said earlier...

Quote

Where are your examples? You've got none, none that's feasible to say the least

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Sylvaen   

Well, @KaLnoX, now I know that you're completely unfamiliar with how these things really work. Accessing memory is so ten years ago, and something that GameGuard is able (and in fact, designed) to detect. Either way, I'm off to do more interesting stuff. I wish you happy trolling. :)

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KaLnoX   
1 minute ago, Sylvaen said:

Well, @KaLnoX, now I know that you're completely unfamiliar with how these things really work. Accessing memory is so ten years ago, and something that GameGuard is able (and in fact, designed) to detect. Either way, I'm off to do more interesting stuff. I wish you happy trolling. :)

Go, run with your tail between you're legs. And like I said earlier, memory access is just the tip, I also mentioned a reversed engineered client that intercepts network traffic...traffic used to tell players where objects in game are and their status and these clients can take it a step further by doing all of this without any visual output mind you, less graphics == more resource friendly == more modified executables are able to run on one machine...that modern enough for you pal?

In fact this method, in combination with others, is whats used by gold botters. Those 10 and 20 bots doing a congo line? Yea, thats one system handling  all those instances now imagine 20 systems doing the same shit, now multiply that by 10. Lol you're left playing catch up forever and ever until you turn old and grey on your last breath lmao.

Maybe thats why they cant combat these bots properly, they have too much people like you on their team. Changing the game's mechanics is the easiest way to corner and trap those into the black market system, like I said earlier....but nevermind that, you have interesting shit to do like finding the answers to the wrong questions. Toodle pip.

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Hatsunya   
5 hours ago, Melodia said:

Tera

Path of Exile, though not really a "massive" game

GW2 (yes there are bots but WAY less than this game, to a point they're not even a problem)

Poe has bots theres working bots too and theres working hacks too and theres gold sellers too ( not really gold sellers but what ever currencies were)

Tera seriously? Game that is pretty much dead. It has bots it had bots. Only reason why it has less bots than here is the fact that gold has no value there. Theres still gold sellers around but its not worth of time botting there because theres no profit to made.

GW2? I have not played it cant speak about if theres profit to made but i can quarantee with 100% certaintity that theres bots. Oh well ill just confirm it real quick. Took me 2 minutes to find several diffrent bots so when theres bot programs theres botters. If its massive as it is here i dont know because i have no clue how economy runs there or is there profit for botters.

 

So now go and come back with new games / companies that has actually won battle against bots

 

 

 

Do i even have to look for more?

Edited by Hatsunya

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6 hours ago, Sylvaen said:

1. Theres not single game company that is capable of having bot free game. Thats not possible.

Untrue. There are games that are, effectively, bot-free. There are many games that do have bots but combat them very effectively.  A good example of the first is The Secret World, a less known game but rivaling WOW, Rift, and Tera in its complexity and size. A good example of the second is EVE Online.

 

2. They do care about bot problem and Ncsoft does things to fight back but what you're expecting and wanting is far from reality. Ncsoft has limited resources and they have to investigate thousands of accounts to get rid of bots / hackers that alone is really time consuming. There was screenshot at reddit where CS slipped and told that their team bans over 100 botters / hackers per week. What ever you believe it or not its up to you.
Untrue in multiple ways. NCsoft is one of the big 5 in MMO market, along with Blizzard and EA. Claiming they have limited resources to combat bots is like saying that Microsoft has limited resources to ensure security of their users. There are many anti-botting techniques that can be implemented into an automated system. These include some program-level features as well as some ingame techniques and scripted AI. I used to run a private MMO server with a sizable population. When the botting issue appeared, my team successfully implemented those techiques, and we pretty much got rid of all the bots within a week.

 

3. This game is F2P which means when Ncsoft bans one account botter just makes new one or has already 10 rdy to take their place.

F2P is a marketing term. The game still makes money off its players. Instead of F2P, use the correct term "microtransaction funded". Naturally, the ultimate goal of the game's producer is to get people to use microtransactions as much as possible. The only truly "free" part of it is that anyone can download the client, register an account, and create a character. And I agree, enabling a free-for-all in this way is aggravating the bot issue. Nevertheless, if website CMS systems such as Drupal, Wordpress and others are able to block spammers and automatically ban them from registering on the website, I fail to see where's the problem in doing the same for user accounts in BnS.

 

4. You guys have not offered single good solution to this problem only ranting and crying without understanding anything and at the same time blaming Ncsoft not doing anything. Theres plenty of evidence in internet that shows they do ban botters / cheaters but you guys expect them to ban instantly or within day or two or even after one week of reporting. Sadly some gets banned sooner than others but ranting players fail to see the fact they need to investigate each account and that is time consuming. So now imagine thousands accounts per week gets reports and they can ban 100 accounts per week.

It's not a murder investigation, and does not need to take that long. They have event logs, they have GMs ingame, and it only takes ten seconds for the GM to verify whether or not a character is being botted or not. As I've already mentioned in my response to #2, I have firsthand experience with this: there are simple techniques that the GM can use to identif a bot when in doubt. Most of the time, there's no doubt at all - just look at the bot train and observe their behavior, they don't even bother to pretend.

 

5.If you or anyone else thinks any other region is better or has less bot then you should actually spent some time and look for answer before spreading bullshit. If something it might be even worse than in here or atleast same. All versions has their bots and they will keep coming.

Don't care about other regions. If what you say about KR BnS having this many bots even 4 years after launch, then it's a sad proof of incompetence or lack of care.

 

6. Do you seriously think that thousands of players would stop paying for this game. If you dont like it and dont want to pay then dont pay.

I don't think it's very likely that the community could band together and demand a solution. They'll rather *cricket* on forums and argue. And since the problem will only be getting worse, eventually the community will disappear into other games.

 

7. If you think players will quit because of bots then they can quit. Personally they dont bother me or cause me harm. Im doing my own stuff and have not seen bots past 7 days. Thought if i went to SSP now i could easily see 2-3 destroyer bots running with corpses but idc about them i do my own stuff.

So you're basically bashing another player because they feel affected by high saturation of bots, based on the argument that you "do your own stuff and don't care about bots". Uh huh. 

 

I've challenge for you. Come up 5 ways to clear game out of bots and lets see what you come up other than lets all quit or quit paying. Use ur imagination to come up ideas.

5? Why not 4 or 99 or any other random number? Even ONE way to clear the game of bots would be enough. And before you go ranting off, I have already suggested it on the forum and don't feel like spelling out the whole thing again. Besides, active defense against bots is only one part of the formula. Taking away or at least lowering their incentive is another. Yes, that would mean revisiting some of the game's item and crafting mechanics, reevaluating values and rarity of resources, and possibly allowing players to gain them in other ways than in a mindnumbing grind. Which, I think, will never happen - what with NCsoft being infamous for loving their mindless grindcrowds.

 

Enough said. Another bot-free game example would be PoE which i've played for a year and haven't seen a single bot or hacker or someone complaining about these. Granted it's moba tho still a lot of players but no bots/hackers. 

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